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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: ChuckleHead on April 22, 2015, 03:40:40 PM
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i went to see a doctor who's background is internal medicine.
the subject of GH came up and she said GH is not good for anyone over 50 because it will encourage cancer growth.
i never heard of that before. i have heard gh doesn't help the frail, that there is an age when gh won't do much good.
i couldn't really get into it with her though. i'm thinking she meant as if someone has some cancer leanings, if you will, that gh would accelerate it.
like if a man is predisposed to getting prostate cancer in his late fifties, then taking gh is going to accelerate it.
but if there is no cancer predisposition or anything like that, then would GH still be bad at that age?
my superficial observation is a ton of rich and powerful people over 50 are on GH or is that just my imagination?
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I think the belief among most medical professionals is that GH accelerates cancer development for anyone not fighting AIDS or those who still have open growth plates.
*I was told this by an individual who was looking to use growth for cosmetic purposes and was discouraged by a medical professional.
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I think the belief among most medical professionals is that GH accelerates cancer development for anyone not fighting AIDS or those who still have open growth plates.
*I was told this by an individual who was looking to use growth for cosmetic purposes and was discouraged by a medical professional.
in other words, every healthy adult.
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http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304179704579459290223091978
Does human growth hormone have antiaging powers? Or does it contribute to heightened cancer risk and earlier death? The complex science in the area suggests the answer is yes to both.
Growth hormone, a biochemical that helps stimulate cell growth and division, is given to children and teens with low natural supplies to increase their growth. Increasingly, healthy older individuals also are taking it to improve the appearance of skin, increase muscle tone and for other purported benefits.
Taking growth hormone for antiaging purposes is hugely controversial in the medical community but nonetheless appears to be gaining popularity in parts of the world. The global market for human growth hormone, or HGH, will reach an estimated $4.7 billion by 2018, up from $3.5 billion in 2011, according to Global Industry Analysts Inc., a market research firm.
New studies published this year, however, offer the strongest indication yet that lower levels of a compound related to growth hormone called insulin-like growth factor-1, or IGF-1, are related to longevity and lower risk of cancer as people reach old age.
"These studies suggest that growth hormone for healthy aging might not be a good idea," says Nir Barzilai, an endocrinologist at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City who published one of the papers in the journal Aging Cell in February.
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That levels of testosterone, estrogen, growth hormone and other biological chemicals fall with age is well known among medical professionals. But whether replacing or supplementing hormones is good for the health of an aging individual is a complex question.
One cautionary tale comes from estrogen replacement, once thought to benefit women post-menopause. Data from a large trial, the Women's Health Initiative, indicated that giving estrogen to women 50 and older appeared to increase the risk of stroke and perhaps breast cancer.
That's because what's good for young people biologically isn't necessarily good for older adults. The same hormones may have a different effect across the life span and the outcome may be different, says Dr. Barzilai, also director of Einstein's Institute for Aging Research.
HGH prompts the liver and other organs to make IGF-1, which affects many tissues and organs in the body. Studies usually measure IGF-1 rather than growth hormone directly because IGF-1 levels remain more constant.
The Food and Drug Administration has approved many synthetic growth hormone products for treatment of people who need more in their systems. But since 2010 the agency has monitored people receiving treatment due to data suggesting that adults who were treated with HGH during childhood had a 30% increased risk of early death compared with the general population. The FDA continues to believe the benefits outweigh the risks in that population, according to its website.
Also, even supposed antiaging benefits may not truly be healthy. There's evidence that the increased muscle from growth hormone doesn't actually increase strength. Growth of muscle alone due to HGH use won't necessarily improve functioning if the well-worn neural pathways to the brain aren't repaired.
And growth hormone does stimulate cartilage growth, but this can actually cause carpal tunnel syndrome in older people, says William Sonntag, director of the Reynolds Oklahoma Center on Aging.
There aren't any randomized controlled trials—and probably won't be for ethical reasons—that would provide more definite evidence of benefit or harm of use of IGF-1 in healthy older people.
Few in the scientific community dispute that there are some modest benefits to increasing IGF-1 levels, such as tightening of the skin. There also appear to be cognitive benefits.
Dr. Sonntag and his colleagues bred mice with the idea of removing an IGF-1 gene—and therefore lowering the amount of IGF-1—in their brains at various ages. They found that mice growing up with a normal amount of IGF-1 who had their IGF-1 levels reduced in later life showed cognitive impairment as a result.
But the relationship between growth hormone and cognitive function is complex, Dr. Sonntag says. When the group studied mice that lived all their lives with low IGF-1 levels—as some people with genetic mutations are known to do—they showed no cognitive impairment.
In fact, these mice didn't show deficits of IGF-1 in the brain. Somehow, it seems, the brain tissue, which also makes IGF-1, compensated for the lower amount of IGF-1 levels circulating in the blood, researchers at Southern Illinois University of Medicine have shown.
"Although on the surface it looks like reducing IGF-1 is going to be good for us, it's a lot more complicated than that," Dr. Sonntag says.
There also are clear risks involved with higher levels of growth hormone, many scientists say. Among the strongest is cancer. Studies show that lowering IGF-1 by 50% decreases cancer risk significantly and that increased levels of IGF-1 are linked with higher cancer risk.
Longevity is another area where low growth hormone levels appear to be better than high. Across many species, those with low lifetime IGF-1 levels, including mice, fruit flies and humans, live longer than those with higher levels, a number of studies have shown. But the data isn't as clear about typically aging people who likely have normal levels of growth hormone growing up but experience age-related decline.
A new study is among those offering better evidence that lower growth hormone is linked with longevity. Valter Longo, director of the Longevity Institute at the University of Southern California, and his team, published the study in Cell Metabolism in March.
They found that in those ages 50 to 65, people with higher IGF-1 levels showed a fourfold increased risk for cancer and 75% increase in overall mortality compared with those with lower levels.
"Overwhelmingly the human data and the research and the science will say that, for the majority of people, [taking HGH is] just a bad idea," says Dr. Longo.
It doesn't rule out the possibility that there's some benefit for some individuals, but generally exercise, muscle training and eating better should be the focus of efforts to improve health, he says.
Yet this treatment may induce a strong placebo effect.
Dr. Sonntag recalls hearing from a retired salesman in his 80s who said he had been taking growth hormone and was feeling great because of it. The man also said he exercised regularly and watched his diet. He was in town to take his 101-year-old mother to lunch.
Moreover, the man was taking pills to stimulate HGH production—which it does in children but not for older people, Dr. Sonntag says. "He had good genes. He was doing the right thing" with exercise and diet, the doctor says. But "he thought it was the growth hormone he was taking."
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in other words, every healthy adult.
Sorry, yeah.
They were pretty convinced GH was bad, I wondered why it wouldn't accelerate cancer in those diseased but it wasn't a question that was asked. They did get antidepressants without any issue though.
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Sorry, yeah.
They were pretty convinced GH was bad, I wondered why it wouldn't accelerate cancer in those diseased but it wasn't a question that was asked. They did get antidepressants without any issue though.
Here's the cliff notes:
Cancer is the uncontrolled growth of cells aka tumors.
GH accelerates cell growth and may not be as tissue target specific as some thought.
In brief, when you accelerate metabolism ( fat loss and muscle cell growth ) you may trigger unwanted cell proliferation aka cancer.
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i went to see a doctor who's background is internal medicine.
the subject of GH came up and she said GH is not good for anyone over 50 because it will encourage cancer growth.
i never heard of that before. i have heard gh doesn't help the frail, that there is an age when gh won't do much good.
i couldn't really get into it with her though. i'm thinking she meant as if someone has some cancer leanings, if you will, that gh would accelerate it.
like if a man is predisposed to getting prostate cancer in his late fifties, then taking gh is going to accelerate it.
but if there is no cancer predisposition or anything like that, then would GH still be bad at that age?
my superficial observation is a ton of rich and powerful people over 50 are on GH or is that just my imagination?
What does a stupid physican know? Your superficial observation is obviously more insightful and meaningful. ::)
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What does a stupid physican know? Your superficial observation is obviously more insightful and meaningful. ::)
Why listen to a lame MD aka medical doctor, when you can get advices from a DM, doctor of mayhem
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Lyle Alzado got cancer from steroids right?
:o
hmmm
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A few years back, I remember reading in PubMed about the effects of growth hormone on Telomere lengthening.
There is correlation.
"1"
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Lyle Alzado got cancer from steroids right?
:o
hmmm
Medical examiner said AAS had no root cause for the cancer. Lyle said they did but docs said nope.
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Medical examiner said AAS had no root cause for the cancer. Lyle said they did but docs said nope.
Maybe it was the GH that did it?
(http://www.steroids.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/alzado_SI.jpg)
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If your immune system is good and cancer is not common in your family - chances are - it won't do shit..
Took a blood test yesterday. Results came in. I eat plenty of carbs, plenty of animal fats, plenty of eggs (with yolks) and my cholesterol level is great, my triglycerides are just at the level that is required at all (any less and it would be a bummer lol). Genetics. Oh, and I've been on test+eq for quite some time now.
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A few years back, I remember reading in PubMed about the effects of growth hormone on Telomere lengthening.
There is correlation.
"1"
Telomer lengthening = fountain of youth. ...
Ponce De Leon spent to much time searching in south Florida but his life's work will end up being justified.
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good article SF, thanks.
seems like compelling consensus that gh increases cancer risk.
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While I am not saying GH is bad for someone over 50, but there is probably a very important reason why the body drastically reduces GH over a lifetime.
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While I am not saying GH is bad for someone over 50, but there is probably a very important reason why the body drastically reduces GH over a lifetime.
To be precise - it reduces basically every single substance produced by body and usualy that is no good (for ex. - gut acids decline, digestive issues begin)... It does happen because natural selection hasn't cared much about how the body will survive after it reached reproductive age.
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Bad news for Groink, Wes, and Coach
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To be precise - it reduces basically every single substance produced by body and usualy that is no good (for ex. - gut acids decline, digestive issues begin)... It does happen because natural selection hasn't cared much about how the body will survive after it reached reproductive age.
Good point!
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Lyle Alzado got cancer from steroids right?
:o
hmmm
No he got the brain cancer from too much gay butt sex
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Cancer accounts for nearly 50% of all disease-related pet deaths each year. 10% of humans die of cancer. If GH does accelerate cancer, it makes sense that middle aged people would have a harder time fighting off that cancer because their immune systems aren't as strong as they were say in their 20's and 30's...
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Who gives a shit? In words of the Mayor, do you want to live small or die big?
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Makes one think that if scientist know that GH promotes cancer growth, maybe HGH(cancer) is the new AID's for the gay community. Da gays love their hgh...
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Who gives a shit? In words of the Mayor, do you want to live small or die big?
I'd rather live rich and wealthy looking like a twink 8)
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i went to see a doctor who's background is internal medicine.
the subject of GH came up and she said GH is not good for anyone over 50 because it will encourage cancer growth.
i never heard of that before. i have heard gh doesn't help the frail, that there is an age when gh won't do much good.
i couldn't really get into it with her though. i'm thinking she meant as if someone has some cancer leanings, if you will, that gh would accelerate it.
like if a man is predisposed to getting prostate cancer in his late fifties, then taking gh is going to accelerate it.
but if there is no cancer predisposition or anything like that, then would GH still be bad at that age?
my superficial observation is a ton of rich and powerful people over 50 are on GH or is that just my imagination?
Unless I missed it there's nothing in there about dosages. I've never used GH but everything has a line to cross.
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It makes nail grow. It makes internal organs grow so why would it also not make cancer grow. I don't think it would give you cancer but if you have it you will develop it worse. Until a doctor does a study of a bunch of cancer free healthy people and gives them hgh and then sees if cancer grows they can't make such a clAim
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It makes nail grow. It makes internal organs grow so why would it also not make cancer grow. I don't think it would give you cancer but if you have it you will develop it worse. Until a doctor does a study of a bunch of cancer free healthy people and gives them hgh and then sees if cancer grows they can't make such a clAim
Not sure Gh making internal organs grow? Working out with steroids make the heart/arteries grow for sure even studies I believe show working out heavy and excessive makes the heart/arteries grow but once stopped it slowly recovers. But using steriods is a different story
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Telomer lengthening = fountain of youth. ...
Ponce De Leon spent to much time searching in south Florida but his life's work will end up being justified.
Not quite.
Telemore lengthening can perpetuate the growth of cancer cells.
Telemore shortening allows for cells to be "mortal" by programming cells into having a form of replicative mortality. Inversely, when you lengthen them, it can result in a catastrophic situation for someone that has a predisposition to or early signs of cancer by way of increased proliferation ability.
"1"
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Holy shit people. Still nothing about dosages. This thread is just one blanket statement.
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Holy shit people. Still nothing about dosages. This thread is just one blanket statement.
it's just based a comment by a doctor, that's all. i found it curious because she said it with a certainty but i couldn't ask her more about it, so i posted here to see what other people know or think out it.
i'm sure that USC study, mentioned in the article SF posted, has dose amounts noted.
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My broey understanding is that everyone has microcancers all the time which are being eliminated by your immune system. A bunch of stuff has to happen for a tumor to get a foothold and one of those things is receiving a sufficient blood supply. GH helps angiogenesis.
Seems like stuff that benefits muscle growth also benefits tumor growth. It's all just meat and if it feeds the good meat then it also feeds the bad meat. Bro.
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I'd rather live rich and wealthy looking like a twink 8)
Me too. I was trying to sound like a big man back there
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Holy shit people. Still nothing about dosages. This thread is just one blanket statement.
Plus it says the guy was taking a pill to increase his HGH, what pill does that?
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Plus it says the guy was taking a pill to increase his HGH, what pill does that?
do you even read? not even once.
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do you even read? not even once.
I was referring to the last paragraph in the post by SF1900
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Not quite.
Telemore lengthening can perpetuate the growth of cancer cells.
Telemore shortening allows for cells to be "mortal" by programming cells into having a form of replicative mortality. Inversely, when you lengthen them, it can result in a catastrophic situation for someone that has a predisposition to or early signs of cancer by way of increased proliferation ability.
"1"
I misunderstood, big surprise.
I thought telomore shortening leads to the eventual and inevitable death of a cell, therefore my logic assumed lengthening them stopped the cell aging.
Apparently an enzyme called telomerase stops/slows telomore shortening. This could be the next big bodybuilding supplement breakthrough!
Thanks OMR, I'm smarter because of you, that's quite an accomplishment in itself.
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It makes nail grow. It makes internal organs grow so why would it also not make cancer grow. I don't think it would give you cancer but if you have it you will develop it worse. Until a doctor does a study of a bunch of cancer free healthy people and gives them hgh and then sees if cancer grows they can't make such a clAim
BS & BS ::)
If U A on HGH U would never talk this silly shit.
My personal observation : increases speed & overall recovery.
Cost me hips & I am on very strict medical observation.
8)
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Me too. I was trying to sound like a big man back there
No worries u are still a big man in my eyes
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While I am not saying GH is bad for someone over 50, but there is probably a very important reason why the body drastically reduces GH over a lifetime.
Yes just like estrogen for women.
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I misunderstood, big surprise.
I thought telomore shortening leads to the eventual and inevitable death of a cell, therefore my logic assumed lengthening them stopped the cell aging.
Apparently an enzyme called telomerase stops/slows telomore shortening. This could be the next big bodybuilding supplement breakthrough!
Thanks OMR, I'm smarter because of you, that's quite an accomplishment in itself.
You're very smart.
Most people wouldn't know what a telomere is and/or how it actually works at the cellular level.
"1"
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Not quite.
Telemore lengthening can perpetuate the growth of cancer cells.
Telemore shortening allows for cells to be "mortal" by programming cells into having a form of replicative mortality. Inversely, when you lengthen them, it can result in a catastrophic situation for someone that has a predisposition to or early signs of cancer by way of increased proliferation ability.
"1"
It depends. Some good (for ex. immune) cells die or are worn out because of shortened telomeres. So extending them would mean - increased protection from cancer at the same time. It's complicated. The best would be to just replenish stem cell pools as it's the core of where everything "begins" in regards to sustaining a healthy body.
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It depends. Some good (for ex. immune) cells die or are worn out because of shortened telomeres. So extending them would mean - increased protection from cancer at the same time. It's complicated. The best would be to just replenish stem cell pools as it's the core of where everything "begins" in regards to sustaining a healthy body.
Problem is that, if I am not mistaken, most cancer cells begin to both outnumber and out-power immune cells meant to eradicate cancer cells.
To make matters worse, I believe scientists have mostly targeted Telomerase in order to try and stop the lengthening of telomeres, but have found that in response to their efforts, most tumors will simply resort to ALT - Alternative Lengthening of Telomeres, sort of their bypass mechanism to allow for cancer proliferation.
I haven't read too much on the latest Stem Cell research, as there seems to still be too much political red tape slowing down all fronts of progress within the scientific community (morality-God fearing politicians with no medical or scientific background vs science).
Anyhow, I don't use any of that stuff (Hormones of any kind).
"1"
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BS & BS ::)
If U A on HGH U would never talk this silly shit.
My personal observation : increases speed & overall recovery.
Cost me hips & I am on very strict medical observation.
8)
It has been proven to increase the size of internal organs. Are you just too fucking dumb to think it targets muscle only?
There have been studies on adult sports athletes who had their foot size grow a few inches and their head circumference grow a few inches. Both of which stop growing after puberty.
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It has been proven to increase the size of internal organs. Are you just too fucking dumb to think it targets muscle only?
There have been studies on adult sports athletes who had their foot size grow a few inches and their head circumference grow a few inches. Both of which stop growing after puberty.
Didn't know internal organs consist of your feet and head growth?
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Didn't know internal organs consist of your feet and head growth?
Easy smartass. These are measurable you can see yourself, the internal organs were shown via ultrasound.
Just makes me laugh at how fucking stupid bodybuilders are thinking it only affects muscle growth. They don't realize it's given to people with stunted growth to get taller because it caused complete body growth.
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It has been proven to increase the size of internal organs. Are you just too fucking dumb to think it targets muscle only?
There have been studies on adult sports athletes who had their foot size grow a few inches and their head circumference grow a few inches. Both of which stop growing after puberty.
NAME those medical clinics or sport institutes & individuals, then BS.
Longest HGH studies was done by Dr.Ho at Sydney Garvan Institute ;)
Do U have access to Sports Institute (with $ 500 millions annual budget) like someone else on this site ;)
Any massive pro BB can tell U what they take & is so cheap ($ 3 per tablet) ,ask any modern beef producer ( ;)) or vet 8) what is it.
OBW, ask yourself why so many dead in BB only & not in other pro sports on HGH 8)
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Holy shit people. Still nothing about dosages. This thread is just one blanket statement.
Depends of age, body mass, sport & $$$ ;)