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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Submissionfytr on June 22, 2015, 08:17:44 PM
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I've always heard Casey (especially with Arthur Jones hating drugs and training him) used very low doses, some even claimed he was natural. Came across someone who interviewed him and he admits they not only did have/use Growth Hormone, but took huge dosages that would equal what most use today.
DISCOVERING THE TRUTH
I have fairly recently trained down in Florida with top pro of the 70's and early 80's CASEY VIATOR.
I asked him directly about steroid use in the 70's and this is what he had to say.... and I quote...
"Don't let anyone fool you about our low doses. We were just as reckless with steroid use as they are today."
I asked him when the big doses started....
" The big doses started around 1974 and yes we were all right on top of it". Yes we ALL used GH back then and it was from real cadavers. The GH we all used was called CRESCORMIN and nobody was going to morgues to get it".
I wanted an example and I told him about what I heard my mentor, and his friend and former training partner, Mike Mentzer used......only 400 of deca/week and 30 of d-bol/day.
CASEY LAUGHED and then said this...." Mentzer used up to 2.5 grams of deca a week, God knows how much primobolin acetate, along with d-bol and growth, so as I said don't be fooled about our low doses as we were just as reckless as theses guys are today.
http://irongangsta.blogspot.com.es/2013/04/bodybuilding-dirty-little-secrets.html?m=1
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Makes sense. The diets they had were ultra low cal, training like crazy, you don't do that on those bullshit doses they were talking about...
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And Casey was in his by far best condition in 1971 100% natural. Jones had his Nautilus paid apartnent searched regularly & had it bugged. Anybody who thinks Casey fooled Jones is dumb as shit besides not knowing spit about how ruthless & violently opposed to drugs Jones was. Ask Jim Flannigan he'll tell ya.
IOW - All the drugs he used did nothing to improve his physique. Just as jones told him.
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Ray Mentzer stayed at my place for many, many months. We didn't discuss steroids much because I wasn't interested in using them. When Ray returned to the US he tried to compete once more and his weight went up to over 280 pounds. That was around 1989. I stayed with Ray and Pam in Torrance in 1991. Ray told me he got sick when he got huge. He said a lot of the other guys at Golds who were around 300 pounds were also getting sick. I didn't ask for any details because Ray is a proud guy so I left it alone. He died in 2001 from kidney disease complications as he was on dialysis.
When Ray was training for the Mr America contest in 1979 his mother died. Ray told me he would have trained 24 hours a day if that would have helped him win that title for his mum. Now that is motivation. I have no doubt that Ray would have done what ever was required to win a big contest. Mike won the Mr Universe title while both won the Mr America contest. Ray was a bit jealous of Mike partly because he told me his dad favoured Mike. So I guess Ray wanted to show his dad that he could also win that title. Ray was very cavalier about steroids. He called them gonad stimulators and he didn't consider them dangerous. His partner, Kathy, told us she couldn't live with Ray when he and his friends were preparing for competitions. They would take things to hype themselves up for a workout then take things afterwards as well. Plus the steroids. Ray was only 47 when he died and Mike died two days earlier aged 49. Two smart guys who were a bit reckless with their health and paid the price for abusing a lot of chemicals.
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And that's the fitness industry for you.
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Ray Mentzer stayed at my place for many, many months. We didn't discuss steroids much because I wasn't interested in using them. When Ray returned to the US he tried to compete once more and his weight went up to over 280 pounds. That was around 1989. I stayed with Ray and Pam in Torrance in 1991. Ray told me he got sick when he got huge. He said a lot of the other guys at Golds who were around 300 pounds were also getting sick. I didn't ask for any details because Ray is a proud guy so I left it alone. He died in 2001 from kidney disease complications as he was on dialysis.
When Ray was training for the Mr America contest in 1979 his mother died. Ray told me he would have trained 24 hours a day if that would have helped him win that title for his mum. Now that is motivation. I have no doubt that Ray would have done what ever was required to win a big contest. Mike won the Mr Universe title while both won the Mr America contest. Ray was a bit jealous of Mike partly because he told me his dad favoured Mike. So I guess Ray wanted to show his dad that he could also win that title. Ray was very cavalier about steroids. He called them gonad stimulators and he didn't consider them dangerous. His partner, Kathy, told us she couldn't live with Ray when he and his friends were preparing for competitions. They would take things to hype themselves up for a workout then take things afterwards as well. Plus the steroids. Ray was only 47 when he died and Mike died two days earlier aged 49. Two smart guys who were a bit reckless with their health and paid the price for abusing a lot of chemicals.
Well shit man, that was a rather solid post. I always had an interest in the Mentzer's and am rather proud (feel very vintage like) to have spoken with MIke on the phone for consultations.
Don't suppose you wanna talk about their amphetamine addiction? Something very strange was going on, how they died, so close together and such.
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Two smart guys who were a bit reckless with their health and paid the price for abusing a lot of chemicals.
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/000/151/n725075089_288918_2774.jpg)
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Well shit man, that was a rather solid post. I always had an interest in the Mentzer's and am rather proud (feel very vintage like) to have spoken with MIke on the phone for consultations.
Don't suppose you wanna talk about their amphetamine addiction? Something very strange was going on, how they died, so close together and such.
After Mike lost the 80 Olympia he sort of lost control of his life and was known to the police for doing crazy things on the street, etc. Ray was told by his dad to give Mike a job at his Muscle Mill Gym in Torrance.
Ray told me Mike behaved badly at times there and he caused some members to train elsewhere, especially police members. In 1991 Ray had a successful business doing back rehab using expensive MedX machines.
He was expanding his business while I was there. Then he opened a gym near where he lived. There were too many gyms around for that to be very successful. Somehow things changed and Mike looked after
Ray when Ray's health deteriorated. Mike was making videos and was making money again. Soon after both died. I have no idea what drugs either man took. Ray sure when downhill fast towards the end.
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After Mike lost the 80 Olympia he sort of lost control of his life and was known to the police for doing crazy things on the street, etc. Ray was told by his dad to give Mike a job at his Muscle Mill Gym in Torrance.
Ray told me Mike behaved badly at times there and he caused some members to train elsewhere, especially police members. In 1991 Ray had a successful business doing back rehab using expensive MedX machines.
He was expanding his business while I was there. Then he opened a gym near where he lived. There were too many gyms around for that to be very successful. Somehow things changed and Mike looked after
Ray when Ray's health deteriorated. Mike was making videos and was making money again. Soon after both died. I have no idea what drugs either man took. Ray sure when downhill fast towards the end.
Really a huge tragedy to lose these two guys. Plus their "look" is totally cool now with the kids, they could have had another run. Just too bad Mike was so hard headed to even consider volume being good for some people, man the guy was impossible to budge in his way of thinking, lol...
Still remember those cassettes I got from mm2k mag listening to the interview with Mentzer from TC Luoma. That type of info was gold wrapped in gold to me, no internet, no google...
I'd give you ONE blue star for this story and having lived with a Mentzer brother a while, lol.
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Really a huge tragedy to lose these two guys. Plus their "look" is totally cool now with the kids, they could have had another run. Just too bad Mike was so hard headed to even consider volume being good for some people, man the guy was impossible to budge in his way of thinking, lol...
Still remember those cassettes I got from mm2k mag listening to the interview with Mentzer from TC Luoma. That type of info was gold wrapped in gold to me, no internet, no google...
I'd give you ONE blue star for this story and having lived with a Mentzer brother a while, lol.
I met Mike after Ray introduced me at Golds in 1991. I gave him a story I wrote after the 1980 Mr Olympia that no magazine would publish. I never made a copy of it and I doubt Mike kept it.
We talked about hypertrophy but neither of us budged from our positions. I always considered Mike to be one of the few true philosophers who were bodybuilders. I even read some Ayn Rand but
never subscribed to her selfishness philosophy like Mike and Ray did. I studied philosophy at university and there were never any courses re Ayn Rand. She was a good writer, however, and she
did affect what Mike did in life. Mike had this notion that there is only one true explanation for any phenomenon. If you knew the explanation then that was all there was to know about the subject.
So it was about bodybuilding and hypertrophy. Mike was convinced, a la Arthur Jones, that it was intensity that triggered growth. He also trained infrequently because he felt the muscles needed
time to recover and rebuild. What a shame both Mike and Arthur got it wrong. Intensity is a factor for sure but only one factor in the formula. The other is volume. You can keep your muscles training
like Mike and Ray did but you seldom build much using the Heavy Duty method. Oh, you will make gains for a while but eventually you will plateau. What a shame Mike died before the internet was
a big deal. He would have been great online debating everyone. He did write a lot of articles so at least we have those.
You see, Mike believed he knew about hypertrophy. He knew the one true theory. When he lost to Arnold and placed 4th in 1980 his whole world collapsed. His beliefs were shattered and Mike took
to using drugs and carrying on like a crazy person. It was sad for Ray and others who knew him. When he emerged from those crazy years and tried to earn a living he found some wealth again.
He smoked like a chimney and didn't train any longer....or very little. Yet people out there wanted information so he wrote books and published articles. The videos were supposed to bring him even
more money but he died while making them so that pretty much ended the Mentzer era.
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I recall mike smoking while discussing nutrition (from memory) on the Heavy Duty dvd they shot with Marcus Reinhardt.
That was after the Heavy Duty 2 book was released, and finally convinced me he'd lost it completely.
Youd at least put the cigarette down for five mins on film..
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I recall mike smoking while discussing nutrition (from memory) on the Heavy Duty dvd they shot with Marcus Reinhardt.
That was after the Heavy Duty 2 book was released, and finally convinced me he'd lost it completely.
Youd at least put the cigarette down for five mins on film..
That was a sad scene, Mike was chain smoking like crazy... stumbling over his words. I always wondered what happened to his voice. In the mid '80s his training videos he sounds normal, then in the '90s he got this crackling weird sounding voice. Anyway he and Ray walked like they were 90 years old in that vid... I guess Marcus does the high intensity thing still, trying to keep that flame alive.
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I met Mike after Ray introduced me at Golds in 1991. I gave him a story I wrote after the 1980 Mr Olympia that no magazine would publish. I never made a copy of it and I doubt Mike kept it.
We talked about hypertrophy but neither of us budged from our positions. I always considered Mike to be one of the few true philosophers who were bodybuilders. I even read some Ayn Rand but
never subscribed to her selfishness philosophy like Mike and Ray did. I studied philosophy at university and there were never any courses re Ayn Rand. She was a good writer, however, and she
did affect what Mike did in life. Mike had this notion that there is only one true explanation for any phenomenon. If you knew the explanation then that was all there was to know about the subject.
So it was about bodybuilding and hypertrophy. Mike was convinced, a la Arthur Jones, that it was intensity that triggered growth. He also trained infrequently because he felt the muscles needed
time to recover and rebuild. What a shame both Mike and Arthur got it wrong. Intensity is a factor for sure but only one factor in the formula. The other is volume. You can keep your muscles training
like Mike and Ray did but you seldom build much using the Heavy Duty method. Oh, you will make gains for a while but eventually you will plateau. What a shame Mike died before the internet was
a big deal. He would have been great online debating everyone. He did write a lot of articles so at least we have those.
You see, Mike believed he knew about hypertrophy. He knew the one true theory. When he lost to Arnold and placed 4th in 1980 his whole world collapsed. His beliefs were shattered and Mike took
to using drugs and carrying on like a crazy person. It was sad for Ray and others who knew him. When he emerged from those crazy years and tried to earn a living he found some wealth again.
He smoked like a chimney and didn't train any longer....or very little. Yet people out there wanted information so he wrote books and published articles. The videos were supposed to bring him even
more money but he died while making them so that pretty much ended the Mentzer era.
Mentzer on the internet? HOly shit man, not sure he would have lasted...
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good posts vince!
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mike trained different in the 70's
he did about 9 sets per body part with the supersets
i have his heavy duty journal which actually was a good training book. mike had a hall of a look to him , and he was a great writer, just a shame he ended his career
so early, he was very popular in the early 80's and weider was paying him 150k a year in 1980 to write articles. by all account joe was very fond of mike. mike just
totally lost it after 80 olympia,
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mike trained different in the 70's
he did about 9 sets per body part with the supersets
i have his heavy duty journal which actually was a good training book. mike had a hall of a look to him , and he was a great writer, just a shame he ended his career
so early, he was very popular in the early 80's and weider was paying him 150k a year in 1980 to write articles. by all account joe was very fond of mike. mike just
totally lost it after 80 olympia,
that was more cash than the MR O and still is. Are you sure about that number?
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This is one of the interviews I always point out when guys talk about how small the doses were back then/they didn't need to use as much because of training, more potent, etc.
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This is one of the interviews I always point out when guys talk about how small the doses were back then/they didn't need to use as much because of training, more potent, etc.
The whole "dbal was so much better then" gets fuckin' old also. Stuff is so f'in cheap to make, people have no idea.
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that was more cash than the MR O and still is. Are you sure about that number?
yeah im pretty sure about that, i think i read it in a flex magazine article the rise and fall of mike mentzer
his close friends said he was making about a million a year before he died.
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oh by the way bros i used to share emails with casey viator about 12 years ago
he was actually very friendly answered all my emails pretty fast
he had nothing but good things to say about arnold, and mike mentzer .
said arnold was a beast in pre contest mode,
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what would the reasons be that they didnt use huge amounts in the 70s?
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Cool posts Vince!
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what would the reasons be that they didnt use huge amounts in the 70s?
Basically they worked harder, stuff was more potent back then, etc.
Hear the first one the most personally. Apparently hard work overcomes thousands of milligrams of steroids...old guys like to talk how terrible/laughable it is that someone is using 1.2 grams of test (for example) when "back in the day" they got monstrous on 350mg.
The "more potent" argument is funny as well as they still make a lot of the comments in the last argument to talk about how crazy someone is when in reality if the stuff was so much better back then, than that 1.2gr test user is only taking about 250mg, etc. according to them.
Basically it's bogus that they believe these guys took low doseages to begin with.
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I doubt the GH use, although it did happen, was that huge back then. It was still tightly controlled, and the cost in 1982 was $10,000 a year (around $25,000 a year in 2015 dollars) for a relatively light course of it by bodybuilding standards. It would've been much more back in the 70's.
Genentech was the real breakthrough in GH back around 1984/5.
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/29/sports/sports-people-hormones-for-athletes.html .
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The whole "dbal was so much better then" gets fuckin' old also. Stuff is so f'in cheap to make, people have no idea.
I and many members of our football team took Dbol back in the mid 80's when I attended Lord Beaverbrook High school in Calgary. I remember it being relatively cheap. The person who supplied our football team with Dbol as well as all the Bennies we wanted was Chris Benoit, who was wrestling with Stampede Wrestling at the time. (Was prior to him going to the WWF). Chris and his buddy Ben Bassarab would show up twice a month, and park their tiny car in the corner of the back lot, and take orders. I don't recall him offering any injectables. Was mostly Dbol, Anadrol 50 and bennies. Cheap Cheap Cheap. This would have been around 84-85
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Good post and cool pic Vince.
These kind of drug revelations are hardly shocking.
The top pros did whatever it took and always have.
Ray Mentzer stayed at my place for many, many months. We didn't discuss steroids much because I wasn't interested in using them. When Ray returned to the US he tried to compete once more and his weight went up to over 280 pounds. That was around 1989. I stayed with Ray and Pam in Torrance in 1991. Ray told me he got sick when he got huge. He said a lot of the other guys at Golds who were around 300 pounds were also getting sick. I didn't ask for any details because Ray is a proud guy so I left it alone. He died in 2001 from kidney disease complications as he was on dialysis.
When Ray was training for the Mr America contest in 1979 his mother died. Ray told me he would have trained 24 hours a day if that would have helped him win that title for his mum. Now that is motivation. I have no doubt that Ray would have done what ever was required to win a big contest. Mike won the Mr Universe title while both won the Mr America contest. Ray was a bit jealous of Mike partly because he told me his dad favoured Mike. So I guess Ray wanted to show his dad that he could also win that title. Ray was very cavalier about steroids. He called them gonad stimulators and he didn't consider them dangerous. His partner, Kathy, told us she couldn't live with Ray when he and his friends were preparing for competitions. They would take things to hype themselves up for a workout then take things afterwards as well. Plus the steroids. Ray was only 47 when he died and Mike died two days earlier aged 49. Two smart guys who were a bit reckless with their health and paid the price for abusing a lot of chemicals.
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yeah i mean we got the "the more the better" attitude... then there wasnt as much talk about side effects etc, it wasnt as illegal (or was it even illegal?) back then... i just find very few arguments to WHY NOT... costs would be one of the few reasonable explanations to as why some of the stuff wasnt used (along with availalbility)
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This must really bum Oldtimer out.
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lol can you imagine the shit guys like ramy and heath must be on...
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viator admitted doing extra training during the colorado experiment..
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I've always heard Casey (especially with Arthur Jones hating drugs and training him) used very low doses, some even claimed he was natural. Came across someone who interviewed him and he admits they not only did have/use Growth Hormone, but took huge dosages that would equal what most use today.
DISCOVERING THE TRUTH
I have fairly recently trained down in Florida with top pro of the 70's and early 80's CASEY VIATOR.
I asked him directly about steroid use in the 70's and this is what he had to say.... and I quote...
"Don't let anyone fool you about our low doses. We were just as reckless with steroid use as they are today."
I asked him when the big doses started....
" The big doses started around 1974 and yes we were all right on top of it". Yes we ALL used GH back then and it was from real cadavers. The GH we all used was called CRESCORMIN and nobody was going to morgues to get it".
I wanted an example and I told him about what I heard my mentor, and his friend and former training partner, Mike Mentzer used......only 400 of deca/week and 30 of d-bol/day.
CASEY LAUGHED and then said this...." Mentzer used up to 2.5 grams of deca a week, God knows how much primobolin acetate, along with d-bol and growth, so as I said don't be fooled about our low doses as we were just as reckless as theses guys are today.
http://irongangsta.blogspot.com.es/2013/04/bodybuilding-dirty-little-secrets.html?m=1
All Hearsay. Show me a video of Casey saying this then I'll believe it.
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I doubt the GH use, although it did happen, was that huge back then. It was still tightly controlled, and the cost in 1982 was $10,000 a year (around $25,000 a year in 2015 dollars) for a relatively light course of it by bodybuilding standards. It would've been much more back in the 70's.
Genentech was the real breakthrough in GH back around 1984/5.
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/29/sports/sports-people-hormones-for-athletes.html .
Weider allegedly had many "hookups" for such things...And prices were pennies on the dollar. Guy's back then were Guinea pigs...Weider probably had a deal with big pharma and used bodybuilders as in many different trials for all sorts of shit.
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I and many members of our football team took Dbol back in the mid 80's when I attended Lord Beaverbrook High school in Calgary. I remember it being relatively cheap. The person who supplied our football team with Dbol as well as all the Bennies we wanted was Chris Benoit, who was wrestling with Stampede Wrestling at the time. (Was prior to him going to the WWF). Chris and his buddy Ben Bassarab would show up twice a month, and park their tiny car in the corner of the back lot, and take orders. I don't recall him offering any injectables. Was mostly Dbol, Anadrol 50 and bennies. Cheap Cheap Cheap. This would have been around 84-85
Jesus, man. Hell of a story. How was Chris back then ?
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yeah im pretty sure about that, i think i read it in a flex magazine article the rise and fall of mike mentzer
his close friends said he was making about a million a year before he died.
A million? He lived in a ratty apartment building. I don't even know if he had a car at the end. At his peak due to books, Weider, appearances and other venues he was making 200K in the late 70's and early 80's. That was sick money back then. Then the money all went away when his mental health failed along with his drug addiction. He lost money trying to start a failed magazine that cut him off from weider. He also had a crazy idea he could make bodybuilding films investing in expensive outdated movie making equipment. All he needed was a camera but he bought professional editing equipment that he never made a profit from it's use.
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Basically they worked harder, stuff was more potent back then, etc.
Hear the first one the most personally. Apparently hard work overcomes thousands of milligrams of steroids...old guys like to talk how terrible/laughable it is that someone is using 1.2 grams of test (for example) when "back in the day" they got monstrous on 350mg.
The "more potent" argument is funny as well as they still make a lot of the comments in the last argument to talk about how crazy someone is when in reality if the stuff was so much better back then, than that 1.2gr test user is only taking about 250mg, etc. according to them.
Basically it's bogus that they believe these guys took low doseages to begin with.
. Stuff was not more potent back then. 300mg eq is 300ng eq and most pros use an ugl. The guys you hear saying that shit was better back then are 30 years older no shit they don't respond to gear as well anymore. Undersized maybe but not less potent lol
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;D ;D ;D ;D
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This must really bum Oldtimer out.
What bums me out? That he used drugs? I would bet he used drugs for his first contest and last. Dianabol, Winstrol, Deca, anavar, Anadrol 50 and few others were big in the early 70's.
His best condition was in the early 80's when everyone who trained in the gym can testify he used volume and and lot of it.
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Jesus, man. Hell of a story. How was Chris back then ?
He was a normal guy. Quiet.
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i guess casey didnt believe in training chest
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And Casey was in his by far best condition in 1971 100% natural. Jones had his Nautilus paid apartnent searched regularly & had it bugged. Anybody who thinks Casey fooled Jones is dumb as shit besides not knowing spit about how ruthless & violently opposed to drugs Jones was. Ask Jim Flannigan he'll tell ya.
IOW - All the drugs he used did nothing to improve his physique. Just as jones told him.
:D
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what if he tricked jones by saying the steroids was just liver pills
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lol can you imagine the shit guys like ramy and heath must be on...
biggest difference between then and now is the massive reliance on peptides. really is a peptide game now, gear is a given but mega peptide use changed everything.
lantus at 100ius minimum, 24 hour duration
20ius humulin pre workout and with select meals
seros can be cheap if you have a decent hook up, most prescribed gh out there. 18ius vials, if afforded can bang in an entire vial a day.
that with grams of gear, nothing fancy just test and an anabolic will make a monster in truth.
only difference really is probably just the slin and ease of access to gh.
but the 90's era had the perfect balance, best of both worlds - 70's golden era aesthetics with 80's level of condition and modern era level of mass.
regressed badly though recent times with guys too trigger happy with the slin and going all out for mass,
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what if he tricked jones by saying the steroids was just liver pills
LOL, I doubt Jones cared and simply wanted to "prove" Nautilus machines and HIT were the superior path.
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biggest difference between then and now is the massive reliance on peptides. really is a peptide game now, gear is a given but mega peptide use changed everything.
lantus at 100ius minimum, 24 hour duration
20ius humulin pre workout and with select meals
seros can be cheap if you have a decent hook up, most prescribed gh out there. 18ius vials, if afforded can bang in an entire vial a day.
that with grams of gear, nothing fancy just test and an anabolic will make a monster in truth.
only difference really is probably just the slin and ease of access to gh.
but the 90's era had the perfect balance, best of both worlds - 70's golden era aesthetics with 80's level of condition and modern era level of mass.
regressed badly though recent times with guys trigger happy with the slin and going all out for mass,
we dont know that there all banging in that much slin and gh
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:o
Look at the size of that forearm!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=574970.0;attach=621720;image)
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Gunnar Rosbo & Casey Viator compare forearms.
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i have caseys book
he stated in his book pre contest training he did a ton of volume training
he told me himself through emails you need volume training to get the refined look in
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I've always heard Casey (especially with Arthur Jones hating drugs and training him) used very low doses, some even claimed he was natural. Came across someone who interviewed him and he admits they not only did have/use Growth Hormone, but took huge dosages that would equal what most use today.
DISCOVERING THE TRUTH
I have fairly recently trained down in Florida with top pro of the 70's and early 80's CASEY VIATOR.
I asked him directly about steroid use in the 70's and this is what he had to say.... and I quote...
"Don't let anyone fool you about our low doses. We were just as reckless with steroid use as they are today."
I asked him when the big doses started....
" The big doses started around 1974 and yes we were all right on top of it". Yes we ALL used GH back then and it was from real cadavers. The GH we all used was called CRESCORMIN and nobody was going to morgues to get it".
I wanted an example and I told him about what I heard my mentor, and his friend and former training partner, Mike Mentzer used......only 400 of deca/week and 30 of d-bol/day.
CASEY LAUGHED and then said this...." Mentzer used up to 2.5 grams of deca a week, God knows how much primobolin acetate, along with d-bol and growth, so as I said don't be fooled about our low doses as we were just as reckless as theses guys are today.
http://irongangsta.blogspot.com.es/2013/04/bodybuilding-dirty-little-secrets.html?m=1
This comes as quite a shock !!
::)
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we dont know that there all banging in that much slin and gh
yea definitely some will be taking less, but slin and even gh is just too accessible to not abuse.
even here in the uk GH can be easy-ish to pay for -
buy pens in bulk get it down to around hundred a pen, sell for 140 per 36iu pen which is cheaper than anything online
sell 10 pens which will pay for own monthly use.
just 2 months ago there was a shipment of medicines with a large amount of boxes gone missing from airport cargo!
normally not that obvious but you get boxes missing from shipments regularly - i know because a supplier at my gym profited from having an uncle work as a pharmacy depot delivery driver! home delivery service, refrigerated vans etc
inventories surprisingly lax when it comes to a few 100 geno pens!
these are just gym rats who are lucky with their connects, abusing pharma gh, slin and gear looking like mini monsters.
for ifbb pro's this is their full time job so connects for gh is part and parcel. Kjellstrom is an example, pharmacom for free. sells gh to clients and gym buds - pays for his own.
top tier guys just on another level i guess, i dont know how they do it but they're top of the food chain with big contracts so im guessing everything paid for already.
but really its just too easy not to do. if there's nobodies in my gym easily abusing pharma gh through having good connects and selling on then you can imagine what pro's who do this for a living would do.
slin is nigh on free, even i get slin for free and gear cheap and i work 45 hours for a living.
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yea definitely some will be taking less, but slin and even gh is just too accessible to not abuse.
even here in the uk GH can be easy-ish to pay for -
buy pens in bulk get it down to around hundred a pen, sell for 140 per 36iu pen which is cheaper than anything online
sell 10 pens which will pay for own monthly use.
just 2 months ago there was a shipment of medicines with a large amount of boxes gone missing from airport cargo!
normally not that obvious but you get boxes missing from shipments regularly - i know because a supplier at my gym profited from having an uncle work as a pharmacy depot delivery driver! home delivery service, refrigerated vans etc
inventories surprisingly lax when it comes to a few 100 geno pens!
these are just gym rats who are lucky with their connects, abusing pharma gh, slin and gear looking like mini monsters.
for ifbb pro's this is their full time job so connects for gh is part and parcel. Kjellstrom is an example, pharmacom for free. sells gh to clients and gym buds - pays for his own.
top tier guys just on another level i guess, i dont know how they do it but they're top of the food chain with big contracts so im guessing everything paid for already.
but really its just too easy not to do. if there's nobodies in my gym easily abusing pharma gh through having good connects and selling on then you can imagine what pro's who do this for a living would do.
slin is nigh on free, even i get slin for free and gear cheap and i work 45 hours for a living.
im starting to think bigro is trolling when he talks about gear, the man is so full of shit it's not even funny anymore.
so thats right, a guy tryin to get big as possible isnt going to use a super powerful anabolic drug that is not only legal but often times free or almost so? wow. gotta be dumb as a brick to think someone wouldnt.
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LOL, I doubt Jones cared and simply wanted to "prove" Nautilus machines and HIT were the superior path.
Call Jim Flanagan at the Gainsville YMCA & ask him how AJ felt about drugs. Ask him about what he did to a guy who offered his son a joint.
No one fooled Jones about steroids. Ask Darden.
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im starting to think bigro is trolling when he talks about gear, the man is so full of shit it's not even funny anymore.
so thats right, a guy tryin to get big as possible isnt going to use a super powerful anabolic drug that is not only legal but often times free or almost so? wow. gotta be dumb as a brick to think someone wouldnt.
Every post I've read by Goku is spot on. I'm a national level bodybuilder with many a contacts. His info is SPOT ON.
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wow, GH been in use for 45 years?
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wow, GH been in use for 45 years?
Hitler only had access to under-dosed Chinese knock-offs or else we'd all be posting in German right now.
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wow, GH been in use for 45 years?
Bro they've been sucking stuff outta corpses (?) & injecting it into patients since the early 1800's. Maybe longer.
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On the topic of price-
-In 1981-1983 I was a member of Kaiser Medical Group Insurance. Through my Kaiser plan and with a prescription from a well known doctor, I was able to get Ciba-Geigy (the original patent holder and the pharmaceutical house that invented methandrostrenalone "Dianabol") Dianabol for $1 per bottle. One dollar. 100 tabs (robin's egg blue) that was the trademarked color, 5 mg per tab.
$1
I would receive a script with a 10x refill approval every ten days.
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On the topic of price-
-In 1981-1983 I was a member of Kaiser Medical Group Insurance. Through my Kaiser plan and with a prescription from a well known doctor, I was able to get Ciba-Geigy (the original patent holder and the pharmaceutical house that invented methandrostrenalone "Dianabol") Dianabol for $1 per bottle. One dollar. 100 tabs (robin's egg blue) that was the trademarked color, 5 mg per tab.
$1
I would receive a script with a 10x refill approval every ten days.
Gawdamn !!
:( :( :( Me jealous
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Its great that medical science has since seen how worthless steroids are. The attempt to reduce the androgenic properties & increase the anabolic ones was totally futile & pointless. Exogenous use of synthetic versions of testosterone in the attempt to induce large scale increases in muscular mass is stupid & ultimately damn near suicidal. Super health is a biological impossibility. Your either healthy or unhealthy there is no in between.
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On the topic of price-
-In 1981-1983 I was a member of Kaiser Medical Group Insurance. Through my Kaiser plan and with a prescription from a well known doctor, I was able to get Ciba-Geigy (the original patent holder and the pharmaceutical house that invented methandrostrenalone "Dianabol") Dianabol for $1 per bottle. One dollar. 100 tabs (robin's egg blue) that was the trademarked color, 5 mg per tab.
$1
I would receive a script with a 10x refill approval every ten days.
:) 1980 for my first BB show. Had a buddy in my gym in S.FL. who got blank scripts from his Dr. Would give me about 2 or 3. Would fill them out for original Ciba blue D-Bol with 1 refill. Paid $15 a bottle at my neighborhood drugstore.
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I met Mike after Ray introduced me at Golds in 1991. I gave him a story I wrote after the 1980 Mr Olympia that no magazine would publish. I never made a copy of it and I doubt Mike kept it.
We talked about hypertrophy but neither of us budged from our positions. I always considered Mike to be one of the few true philosophers who were bodybuilders. I even read some Ayn Rand but
never subscribed to her selfishness philosophy like Mike and Ray did. I studied philosophy at university and there were never any courses re Ayn Rand. She was a good writer, however, and she
did affect what Mike did in life. Mike had this notion that there is only one true explanation for any phenomenon. If you knew the explanation then that was all there was to know about the subject.
So it was about bodybuilding and hypertrophy. Mike was convinced, a la Arthur Jones, that it was intensity that triggered growth. He also trained infrequently because he felt the muscles needed
time to recover and rebuild. What a shame both Mike and Arthur got it wrong. Intensity is a factor for sure but only one factor in the formula. The other is volume. You can keep your muscles training
like Mike and Ray did but you seldom build much using the Heavy Duty method. Oh, you will make gains for a while but eventually you will plateau. What a shame Mike died before the internet was
a big deal. He would have been great online debating everyone. He did write a lot of articles so at least we have those.
You see, Mike believed he knew about hypertrophy. He knew the one true theory. When he lost to Arnold and placed 4th in 1980 his whole world collapsed. His beliefs were shattered and Mike took
to using drugs and carrying on like a crazy person. It was sad for Ray and others who knew him. When he emerged from those crazy years and tried to earn a living he found some wealth again.
He smoked like a chimney and didn't train any longer....or very little. Yet people out there wanted information so he wrote books and published articles. The videos were supposed to bring him even
more money but he died while making them so that pretty much ended the Mentzer era.
it should have been pretty easy to prove to Mike that there is more than one true explanation for the "phenomenon" of hypertrophy.
Shit, he had examples of it all around him in the gym and he could have looked at other sports and see examples of muscle development that were not the result of his very strident beliefs.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
The impression that Casey trained for the 1971' 'Mr. America' contest under Arthur Jones without the use of anabolic steroids is legendary.. However it would not surprise me if he had; in fact I might even surprise me more if he hadn't..
Granted that Casey had extraordinary potential, by the early seventies, every other name bodybuilder was using steroids at the time; so why not Casey? If Casey had in fact used them, then the question is; how did he keep them from Arthur? In one of his journals, Art Jones even discusses how he made an exception with Sergio's steroid use during his time at the Nautilus compound. He stated that Sergio had been using them for too long, and that to get off of them would prove to have detrimental side effects for him.
Could it be that Arthur Jones somewhat also made the same exception for Casey? Does anyone have any evidence to this one way or the other? This has to be considered one of the great mysteries of the bodybuilding ages..
Someone on this thread made a negative comment about Caseys' chest.. See the attached pic of showing an epic side chest shot of Casey at only 19 Y.O. when he won the AAU 'Mr. America'
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The impression that Casey trained for the 1971' 'Mr. America' contest under Arthur Jones without the use of anabolic steroids is legendary.. However it would not surprise me if he had; in fact I might even surprise me more if he hadn't..
Granted that Casey had extraordinary potential, by the early seventies, every other name bodybuilder was using steroids at the time; so why not Casey? If Casey had in fact used them, then the question is; how did he keep them from Arthur? In one of his journals, Art Jones even discusses how he made an exception with Sergio's steroid use during his time at the Nautilus compound. He stated that Sergio had been using them for too long, and that to get off of them would prove to have detrimental side effects for him.
Could it be that Arthur Jones somewhat also made the same exception for Casey? Does anyone have any evidence to this one way or the other? This has to be considered one of the great mysteries of the bodybuilding ages..
yeah, Casey would never lie to Jones
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On the topic of price-
-In 1981-1983 I was a member of Kaiser Medical Group Insurance. Through my Kaiser plan and with a prescription from a well known doctor, I was able to get Ciba-Geigy (the original patent holder and the pharmaceutical house that invented methandrostrenalone "Dianabol") Dianabol for $1 per bottle. One dollar. 100 tabs (robin's egg blue) that was the trademarked color, 5 mg per tab.
$1
I would receive a script with a 10x refill approval every ten days.
$1? Ha, very cool...
But please tell me noboby believes that Casey was natural, LOL@that shit, fuck some of you are flat out gullible imbeciles.
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Mike smoked like a chimney like many junkies, he was high as a kite on speed the whole time battling his psychosis.
You could be halfway through a conversation with him and just lose him right there, it was sad watching him deterioate.
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All Hearsay. Show me a video of Casey saying this then I'll believe it.
Exactly.Unreliable source.
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im starting to think bigro is trolling when he talks about gear, the man is so full of shit it's not even funny anymore.
so thats right, a guy tryin to get big as possible isnt going to use a super powerful anabolic drug that is not only legal but often times free or almost so? wow. gotta be dumb as a brick to think someone wouldnt.
some may be so stupid to run that much GH and Slin but its not necessary.
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On the topic of price-
-In 1981-1983 I was a member of Kaiser Medical Group Insurance. Through my Kaiser plan and with a prescription from a well known doctor, I was able to get Ciba-Geigy (the original patent holder and the pharmaceutical house that invented methandrostrenalone "Dianabol") Dianabol for $1 per bottle. One dollar. 100 tabs (robin's egg blue) that was the trademarked color, 5 mg per tab.
$1
I would receive a script with a 10x refill approval every ten days.
I`m extremely jealous Tom.......that stuff was great!!
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yeah im pretty sure about that, i think i read it in a flex magazine article the rise and fall of mike mentzer
his close friends said he was making about a million a year before he died.
He was living in an apartment he shared with Ray in Redondo Bch, CA. It was about two miles from where I lived and it was no palace.
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And Casey was in his by far best condition in 1971 100% natural. Jones had his Nautilus paid apartnent searched regularly & had it bugged. Anybody who thinks Casey fooled Jones is dumb as shit besides not knowing spit about how ruthless & violently opposed to drugs Jones was. Ask Jim Flannigan he'll tell ya.
IOW - All the drugs he used did nothing to improve his physique. Just as jones told him.
Natural or not; I agree that Casey's best look was at the 1971' 'Mr. America'.. He never looked as impressive after that.. If he managed to moved his physique a step forward into the late 70's and early eighties; then he took two steps backward..
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I`m extremely jealous Tom.......that stuff was great!!
Loved the original Ciba D-Bol.
-
The impression that Casey trained for the 1971' 'Mr. America' contest under Arthur Jones without the use of anabolic steroids is legendary.. However it would not surprise me if he had; in fact I might even surprise me more if he hadn't..
Granted that Casey had extraordinary potential, by the early seventies, every other name bodybuilder was using steroids at the time; so why not Casey? If Casey had in fact used them, then the question is; how did he keep them from Arthur? In one of his journals, Art Jones even discusses how he made an exception with Sergio's steroid use during his time at the Nautilus compound. He stated that Sergio had been using them for too long, and that to get off of them would prove to have detrimental side effects for him.
Could it be that Arthur Jones somewhat also made the same exception for Casey? Does anyone have any evidence to this one way or the other? This has to be considered one of the great mysteries of the bodybuilding ages..
Someone on this thread made a negative comment about Caseys' chest.. See the attached pic of showing an epic side chest shot of Casey at only 19 Y.O. when he won the AAU 'Mr. America'
i think he trained his chest..