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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on July 02, 2015, 06:27:03 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11714655/Greek-banks-down-to-500m-in-cash-reserves-as-economy-crashes.html
The daily allowance of cash from many ATM machines has already dropped from 60 to 50, purportedly because 20 notes are running out
Greece is sliding into a full-blown national crisis as the final cash reserves of the banking system evaporate by the hour and swathes of industry start to shut down, precipitating the near disintegration of the ruling coalition.
Business leaders have been locked in talks with the Bank of Greece, pleading for the immediate release of emergency liquidity funds (ELA) to cover food imports and pharmaceutical goods before the tourist sector hits a brick wall.
Officials say the central bank will release the funds as soon as Friday, but this is a stop-gap measure at best. "We are on a war footing in this country," said Yanis Varoufakis, the Greek finance minister.
The daily allowance of cash from many ATM machines has already dropped from 60 to 50, purportedly because 20 notes are running out. Large numbers are empty. The financial contagion is spreading fast as petrol stations and small businesses stop accepting credit cards.
Constantine Michalos, head of the Hellenic Chambers of Commerce, said lenders are simply running out of money. "We are reliably informed that the cash reserves of the banks are down to 500m. Anybody who thinks they are going to open again on Tuesday is day-dreaming. The cash would not last an hour," he said.
"We are in an extremely dangerous situation. Greek companies have been excluded from the electronic transfers of Europe's Target2 system. The entire Greek business community is unable to import anything, and without raw materials they can't produce anything," he said.
Pavlos Deas, owner of an olive processing factory in Chalkidiki, told The Telegraph that he may have to shut down a plant employing 250 people within days.
"We can't send any money abroad to our suppliers. Three of our containers have been stopped at customs control because the banks can't give a bill of landing. One is full of Spanish almonds, the others full of Chinese garlic," he said.
"We don't know how we are going to execute and export an order of 60 containers for the US. We don't even have enough gas. We asked for 10,000 litres but they are only letting us have 2,000. It's being rationed by the day. Factories are closing around us in a domino effect and we're all going to lose everything if this goes on," he said.
The fast-moving events come amid signs of deep dissension within the coalition over the wisdom of the country's referendum this Sunday. The vote was originally intended to secure a stronger negotiating mandate for a showdown with Europe's creditor powers, but it is rapidly turning into an "in-or-out" decision on euro membership and the survival of the Syriza government.
Four members of the nationalist Independent Greeks party (Anel) - the junior partners - said they would break ranks and vote "Yes" to creditor demands - though no offer is now on the table - admitting that they were aghast by the closure of the banking system and the drastic events of recent days.
The party's hardline chief and defence minister, Panos Kammenos, dismissed them contemptuously. "We are at war and there will be no backing down. Whoever does not have the stomach for war, be gone," he said.
voted "yes" on Sunday
Mr Varoufakis vowed to resign if the Greek people voted yes. "I prefer to cut off my own arm rather than sign an agreement without debt restructuring," he told Bloomberg TV.
He said there is not a "smidgeon of an iota of possibility" that the terms on offer can lift the Greek economy out of a deflationary tailspin, insisting that the talks broke down because the creditors refused to face up to the fact that Greece's debt is unpayable.
The International Monetary Fund has tacitly endorsed his claims, admitting that the country needs large-scale debt relief and 50bn of fresh funds over the next three years to give the economy time to recover.
Mr Varoufakis said acceptance of the creditors's proposals would merely mean another bruising fight in a few months' time and a permanent cycle of hostility.
The mood within the Syriza movement is increasingly bitter and polarized. One MP appeared to have lost confidence in the party leadership. "We have had months of childish tactics. They thought they could blackmail Europe into making concessions instead of going to the root of the problem facing this country and accepting that we have to break free altogether. They don't know what they are doing," he told The Telegraph.
Private citizens have requested an injunction from Greece's top court to halt the referendum, claiming it is unconstitutional. Yiorgos Kaminis, the mayor of Athens, said the vote on a creditor package that no longer even exists - and with a question that nobody understands - reduces the country to ridicule.
"We are facing a national catastrophe, it is so self-evident. If Greece votes 'no' we will be obliged to go back to the drachma immediately, and sooner of later we may be forced to leave the EU as well. I don't want my children to be part of North Africa," he said.
The mayor said the whole structure of the Greek state was falling apart as the political crisis grinds on into its sixth month. "Nobody is paying any taxes any longer. The state has no money. We're facing a disaster," he said.
Mr Kaminis, a law professor and an independent politician, is widely-deemed more credible than politicians from the establishment parties and has emerged as the preferred figurehead of the "yes" movement.
Yet he admitted having "no contact" so far with the other groups in favour of a deal, a power structure known as the "inner Troika" in the demonology of the Greek Left. It is a sign of how fractured the "yes" camp still is with just two days left to put out their message, and polls showing the vote too close to call.
"We have to explain in a very determined way what is at stake. People seem to think that it was the EU that closed our banks," he said.
Mr Michalos, from the Hellenic Chambers, said a five-man committee at the Greek treasury is rationing foreign funds for companies on a top priority basis but it is entirely overwhelmed. "They can't possibly deal with thousands of requests," he said. The net effect is total paralysis.
His own two companies are still hanging on but the danger is mounting. One produces latex for kitchen gloves and the teats on baby bottles. "If I can't import gum from Malaysia I am going to have a serious problem. I have four weeks' inventory," he said.
His other company imports meat for supermarkets and restaurants. That is in dire straits already.
"I can't import anything. Restaurants are starting to close down because they can't obtain food and we are going straight into the peak tourist season. It is going to be utterly horrendous if this goes on," he said.
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/imf-warns-of-huge-financial-hole-as-greek-vote-looms/ar-AAcu5ds
The International Monetary Fund delivered a stark warning on Thursday of the huge financial hole facing Greece as angry and uncertain voters prepare for a referendum that could decide their country's future in Europe.
Days after Greece defaulted on part of its IMF debt, the Fund, part of the lenders' "troika" behind successive international bailouts, said Greece needed an extra 50 billion euros over the next three years, including 36 billion from its European partners, to stay afloat. It also needed significant debt relief.
The assessment, in a preliminary draft of the Fund's latest debt sustainability report, underlines the scale of the problems facing Athens, whatever the result of Sunday's referendum on the bailout offered by creditors last month.
Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras' rejection of what he terms the "blackmail" of EU and IMF creditors demanding spending cuts and tax hikes has so angered Greece's partners that there is no hope of reconciliation before Sunday.
With banks closed for a fourth day and capital controls in place, the future of the left-wing government hangs on the result, given the angry mood of voters in Greece, torn between resentment of the lenders and scorn for their own politicians.
"People have lost it completely. And it's all the fault, one hundred percent, of all the politicians. They are to blame for the situation we are in now," said pensioner Thanos Stamou.
On Sunday it will fall to the Greek people to decide an issue that their government was unable to settle in months of acrimonious negotiations with their European partners.
CONSEQUENCES OF A 'NO'
"We are asking them to vote with their eyes open and think hard about all the consequences of a 'No' vote, which could lead Greece to leave the euro zone," French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said on the sidelines of an economic summit in Lyon.
The comment reflected the fear of many in the euro zone that a Greek exit would change the nature of a 15-year-old currency union intended to be unbreakable.
For Tsipras, if voters back a bailout plan that he has scorned, his government is likely to fall, leading to new elections by September.
Already, his coalition is crumbling as a succession of deputies from the right-wing Independent Greeks, his junior partners, have backed the 'Yes' vote.
Tsipras and his finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, remain convinced Athens can negotiate better terms, including debt relief, if voters reject the conditions on offer. But both have signalled they will quit if voters choose the bailout.
"I want to believe that these problems won't last long," Tsipras said on Thursday of the bank closures. "The banks will open when there is a deal," he said in a television interview, predicting it would come within 48 hours of the referendum.
The only full survey to be released since the referendum was announced showed the "No" vote ahead, but falling sharply after the announcement that banks would be shut.
DEEP SHOCK
For Greeks, the sight of closed banks and long lines of pensioners queuing for cash has been a deep shock and a reminder of the potential cost of being shut out of the euro, the symbol of Greece's membership of modern Europe.
Highlighting the surreal choice facing Greek voters, the lenders' proposal that the ballot is supposedly about is no longer even on the table.
"They send a third proposal and at the same time they ask the people to say their opinion about the proposal that doesn't exist any more. It's crazy. We don't know what to do," said 47-year-old lawyer Nicole Papathanasopoulo.
Tsipras' government came to power in January vowing to protect pensioners, and much of the argument with creditors stemmed from his refusal to accept the pension cuts that they demanded.
With unemployment over 25 percent, and youth unemployment over 50 percent, the plight of pensioners, who may be providing the only source of income for families, is acutely sensitive.
In a bid to reassure voters, State Minister Nikos Pappas, one of Tsipras' closest aides, denied speculation that the government would impose a levy on bank deposits.
BANKS "ALREADY FAILED"
However, the ratings agency Fitch said the four biggest banks had already failed, and would have defaulted if capital controls had not been imposed.
Unless the European Central Bank lifts the ceiling on emergency funding it provides at its next meeting on Monday, there is little prospect that they will reopen soon.
"We might run out of banknotes by Tuesday if people keep taking out 60 euros a day," one senior banker said.
ECB Governing Council member Josef Bonnici said the value of collateral that Greek banks must offer in exchange for emergency funding would depend on the result of the referendum.
The IMF analysis suggested that, even on the most optimistic assumptions, the Greek economy would remain on life support for many years to come, and that Athens would be forced to persuade its European partners to help.
Loans made by Europe "will need to be extended significantly" and Greece would need further concessional financing, it said.
The ratings agency Standard and Poor's said Greece's economy, which has already shrunk 25 percent since 2009, would contract by another 20 percent within four years if it made a distressed exit from the euro.
Konstantinos Nikolopoulos, a 70-year-old former employee of U.S. entertainment group Warner Bros, emerged from his bank empty-handed after being told that benefits from his pension fund were not being paid out.
Even so, he was ready to contemplate a vote that could set his country on a path out of the euro.
"On Sunday, I am slightly confused," he said. "I believe the message should be that the Greek people has to take a decision to settle its debt with a fair compromise; I am leaning more to voting 'No'." (Additional reporting by Toby Sterling in the Hague, Lefteris Papadimas, Lefteris Karagiannopoulos, George Georgiopoulos, Yvonne Bell in Athens; Writing by James Mackenzie; Editing by Kevin Liffey)
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GREECE OUT OF CASH BY WEEKEND
(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/aC0jF.TcQFpuIqlc7g0soA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztpbD1wbGFuZTtweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/Part-PAR-Par8216296-1-1-0.jpg)
Greece is sliding into a full-blown national crisis as the final cash reserves of the banking system evaporate by the hour and swathes of industry start to shut down, precipitating the near disintegration of the ruling coalition.
Business leaders have been locked in talks with the Bank of Greece, pleading for the immediate release of emergency liquidity funds (ELA) to cover food imports and pharmaceutical goods before the tourist sector hits a brick wall.
Officials say the central bank will release the funds as soon as Friday, but this is a stop-gap measure at best. "We are on a war footing in this country," said Yanis Varoufakis, the Greek finance minister.
The daily allowance of cash from many ATM machines has already dropped from 60 to 50, purportedly because 20 notes are running out. Large numbers are empty. The financial contagion is spreading fast as petrol stations and small businesses stop accepting credit cards.
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Burn baby, burn.
Europe can't have Greece leave the euro and be even remotely successful or others will follow. Greece will stay, or be utterly destroyed.
Atheno delenda est.
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Burn baby, burn.
Europe can't have Greece leave the euro and be even remotely successful or others will follow. Greece will stay, or be utterly destroyed.
Atheno delenda est.
You can't kick the can down the road forever.
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Burn baby, burn.
Europe can't have Greece leave the euro and be even remotely successful or others will follow. Greece will stay, or be utterly destroyed.
Atheno delenda est.
EU is pushing for regime change or colour revolution scenario only, not for Greece to leave Eurozone. This government is way too disobedient and reichstag in Brussels is not happy about it.
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You can't kick the can down the road forever.
America should take note: when the end comes, it really does happen that fast. Credit seizes and the entire economy stops on a dime. No credit cards, no ATMs, no commerce.
Keep some cash handy for those first couple of weeks until people realize that it really is just paper. After that, currency will be silver, gold, food and ammo.
Keep at least 3 weeks of food on hand. It'll get you over the rough spots. If you can, go all LDS and have a year's worth. Then you could seriously bug-in.
Good luck Greece, we're watching and taking notes.
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EU is pushing for regime change or colour revolution scenario only, not for Greece to leave Eurozone. This government is way too disobedient and reichstag in Brussels is not happy about it.
Of course they are. They don't want Greece to set a precedent and leave because others will follow. I'd like Greece to leave but I honestly think the EU will pull the old hucklebuck on Greece and get their way somehow.
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EU is pushing for regime change or colour revolution scenario only, not for Greece to leave Eurozone. This government is way too disobedient and reichstag in Brussels is not happy about it.
If Greece stays, we'll be back here in 6 months. It'll never end.
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America should take note: when the end comes, it really does happen that fast. Credit seizes and the entire economy stops on a dime. No credit cards, no ATMs, no commerce.
Keep some cash handy for those first couple of weeks until people realize that it really is just paper. After that, currency will be silver, gold, food and ammo.
Keep at least 3 weeks of food on hand. It'll get you over the rough spots. If you can, go all LDS and have a year's worth. Then you could seriously bug-in.
Good luck Greece, we're watching and taking notes.
LOL. "Go all LDS". LOL! Nevada has a huge Mormon population and many of my friends are Mormon.
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LOL. "Go all LDS". LOL! Nevada has a huge Mormon population and many of my friends are Mormon.
They have been preparing for the worst for centuries. They'll be here to pick up the pieces after the fall.
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If Greece stays, we'll be back here in 6 months. It'll never end.
Yep. I think it will end, don't know how though. There will be global governance eventually. Greece isn't going anywhere.
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America should take note: when the end comes, it really does happen that fast. Credit seizes and the entire economy stops on a dime. No credit cards, no ATMs, no commerce.
Keep some cash handy for those first couple of weeks until people realize that it really is just paper. After that, currency will be silver, gold, food, vagina and ammo.
Keep at least 3 weeks of food on hand. It'll get you over the rough spots. If you can, go all LDS and have a year's worth. Then you could seriously bug-in.
Good luck Greece, we're watching and taking notes.
fixed. And don't forget about the addicts, that is really who you need to look out for.
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One more thing off my to-do list
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fixed. And don't forget about the addicts, that is really who you need to look out for.
And anyone on prescription drugs legally. Can you imagine all the poor bastards on SSRIs and the like going cold turkey? There are your zombies. And there's your answer why you'd have to have martial law. You can't not not have it in this situation. Crackheads, opiate/opiod addicts not getting there fixes. I'd like to see that movie of all of the above. :-X :-X :-X
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You can't kick the can down the road forever.
tru dat
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The only difference between us and Greece is that Greece just can't indiscriminately print money since it's in the EU...we can:)
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Feta cheese of peace. ::)
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heard the whores are cheap now there, i might go visit greece
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heard the whores are cheap now there, i might go visit greece
Whores are always cheap for you worldwide stud.
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I' ve said it again: our main problem is that we have to change our behaviour as citizen to our state.
With euro or drachma or dollar, it's gonna be the same here. We gonna pretend that we are clever and we will not pay our taxes or insurance or even a parcking ticket as we are supposed to do!!! How then the State is ging to find money for paying the HUGE amount of public services..?! From loans... and the wheel is going eternally rolling and rolling...
I'm gonna vote a YES this Sunday. Fuck those Left wing dickheads on our Goverment. In months they destroy everything that was still standing...
I spend money only for chicken, cod and sweatpotatoes... :P
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I' ve said it again: our main problem is that we have to change our behaviour as citizen to our state.
With euro or drachma or dollar, it's gonna be the same here. We gonna pretend that we are clever and we will not pay our taxes or insurance or even a parcking ticket as we are supposed to do!!! How then the State is ging to find money for paying the HUGE amount of public services..?! From loans... and the wheel is going eternally rolling and rolling...
I'm gonna vote a YES this Sunday. Fuck those Left wing dickheads on our Goverment. In months they destroy everything that was still standing...
I spend money only for chicken, cod and sweatpotatoes... :P
How's everyone around you holding up mentally? Are people on edge more than normal?
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all BS , no empty chairs in greeko cafes :D euro shares a gone up ,so
hips of coins in Spartans mattresses
porto rico is totally fucked
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I' ve said it again: our main problem is that we have to change our behaviour as citizen to our state.
With euro or drachma or dollar, it's gonna be the same here. We gonna pretend that we are clever and we will not pay our taxes or insurance or even a parcking ticket as we are supposed to do!!! How then the State is ging to find money for paying the HUGE amount of public services..?! From loans... and the wheel is going eternally rolling and rolling...
I'm gonna vote a YES this Sunday. Fuck those Left wing dickheads on our Goverment. In months they destroy everything that was still standing...
I spend money only for chicken, cod and sweatpotatoes... :P
Please don't vote yes. The whole free world is now looking at Greece to again show us the way to the light and not fold under the ECB pressure.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-02/martin-armstrong-troika-maneuvering-rig-greek-referendum
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How's everyone around you holding up mentally? Are people on edge more than normal?
This stupid Left wing Goverment divide our society in front of a falsh delema. A brother fights (in words) a brother... a father against a son... they 've done it again at 1944 in our last civil war...
I'm just stay focused on my diet, cardio and training. This is my way to dealing with things...
AJ I respect you a lot my friend, you are for me a highly apriciated member here (NO HOMO), but I will vote YES.
Why? Because everyone in the rest of the world understands, and some people here in Greece, that a YES is a YESS TO EUROPE, but a no is no to Europe...
I prefer to lose 10% percent of my money and be in Euro, rather than have 100.000 drachmas per month meanwhile a can of tuna will cost 1.000 drachmas...
PS. Sorry for my bad English
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Greece is like a dog. You can kick a dog so long and it will do two things.
It's either gonna roll over and die... or it's gonna bite you and attack you.
And Greece is the kind of country who's the type of a dog who would bite back. They're not gonna roll over and quit.
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America should take note: when the end comes, it really does happen that fast. Credit seizes and the entire economy stops on a dime. No credit cards, no ATMs, no commerce.
Keep some cash handy for those first couple of weeks until people realize that it really is just paper. After that, currency will be silver, gold, food and ammo.
Keep at least 3 weeks of food on hand. It'll get you over the rough spots. If you can, go all LDS and have a year's worth. Then you could seriously bug-in.
Good luck Greece, we're watching and taking notes.
Agreed. Ammo will most likely be more valuable that gold after the collapse. I buy another case every month. .40, .45, 9mm,.22, 223, 7.62 and 00buck.
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This stupid Left wing Goverment divide our society in front of a falsh delema. A brother fights (in words) a brother... a father against a son... they 've done it again at 1944 in our last civil war...
I'm just stay focused on my diet, cardio and training. This is my way to dealing with things...
AJ I respect you a lot my friend, you are for me a highly apriciated member here (NO HOMO), but I will vote YES.
Why? Because everyone in the rest of the world understands, and some people here in Greece, that a YES is a YESS TO EUROPE, but a no is no to Europe...
I prefer to lose 10% percent of my money and be in Euro, rather than have 100.000 drachmas per month meanwhile a can of tuna will cost 1.000 drachmas...
PS. Sorry for my bad English
I appreciate your dilemma, but a YES vote only delays the inevitable and makes it more painful. Do you think any government is going to implement the austerity measures that the IMF and the Troika demands? Do you think that the people that are not now paying their taxes will magically change their thinking once they are back in the bosom of "Europe?"
Vote yes, but be prepared to be right back here in 6-18 months. I am sorry.
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Greece is like a dog. You can kick a dog so long and it will do two things.
It's either gonna roll over and die... or it's gonna bite you and attack you.
And Greece is the kind of country who's the type of a dog who would bite back. They're not gonna roll over and quit.
If Greece were a pit bull sort of country they might have a chance, but they are more of a three-legged Chihuahua. Hope this helps.
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Here's the next ones on the list:
Portugal
Spain
Ireland
Italy
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Here's the next ones on the list:
Portugal
Spain
Ireland
Italy
"Europe" (oh brother) will pull all of the member states into the grave rather than admit that the experiment failed.
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"Europe" (oh brother) will pull all of the member states into the grave rather than admit that the experiment failed.
It's not about what "works" or what is "best" ... it's all about power.
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(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpf1/t51.2885-15/s320x320/e15/1941286_944578075581569_1419490914_n.jpg)
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Here's the next ones on the list:
Portugal
Spain
Ireland
Italy
After those comes France, then UK, then the US.
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My support to all Greek getbiggers. Hope that this mess will end well for all.
As an european i am also feed up with this two speed "community".
How is it possible that in a community where everyone is equal, debt interest rates be so different?
How is it possible that the countries in distress can barely pay the interests while the debt stays the same?
If it's all about loan sharking, lets keep Europe like in the old days, a bunch of soberan nations.
We have a saying that i am going to try translate: "Some are sons, others are step-sons", and it resumes the whole european community reality.
The worst think about this is that the different nations that were friends before are going to start hating on eachother. Even within citizens.
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My support to all Greek getbiggers. Hope that this mess will end well for all.
As an european i am also feed up with this two speed "community".
How is it possible that in a community where everyone is equal, debt interest rates be so different?
How is it possible that the countries in distress can barely pay the interests while the debt stays the same?
If it's all about loan sharking, lets keep Europe like in the old days, a bunch of soberan nations.
We have a saying that i am going to try translate: "Some are sons, others are step-sons", and it resumes the whole european community reality.
The worst think about this is that the different nations that were friends before are going to start hating on eachother. Even within citizens.
it's what becomes of governments who allow towel headed invaders to take over without a hint of resistence
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Precious metals, pfffft. The only metals I invest in are Brass and Lead! >:(
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My support to all Greek getbiggers. Hope that this mess will end well for all.
As an european i am also feed up with this two speed "community".
How is it possible that in a community where everyone is equal, debt interest rates be so different?
How is it possible that the countries in distress can barely pay the interests while the debt stays the same?
If it's all about loan sharking, lets keep Europe like in the old days, a bunch of soberan nations.
We have a saying that i am going to try translate: "Some are sons, others are step-sons", and it resumes the whole european community reality.
The worst think about this is that the different nations that were friends before are going to start hating on eachother. Even within citizens.
The great fallacy of the common currency is that it can exist with disparate sovereign economic policies. It was doomed from the start. The Greeks thought that the euros would keep coming despite their massive annual deficits.
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"The GDP value of Greece represents 0.39 percent of the world economy."
Small fish, I'll worry when the larger economies are in the same boat i.e defaulting on obligations. (which they will eventually, just a matter of time)
Very easy for me to transfer all my cash into broker account and buy up gold and silver miners, telecom, utility, food/agri and other defensive stocks. Can be done within the week.
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"The GDP value of Greece represents 0.39 percent of the world economy."
Small fish, I'll worry when the larger economies are in the same boat i.e defaulting on obligations. (which they will eventually, just a matter of time)
Very easy for me to transfer all my cash into broker account and buy up gold and silver miners, telecom, utility, food/agri and other defensive stocks. Can be done within the week.
You may not get a week, plus it's still all paper, or in this case, electrons on a screen.
There are hedges and then there are HEDGES.
Mining and food stocks are hedges. Food, ammo, physical gold/silver are HEDGES. When I say I am long in physical precious metals, I am LOOOONNNNGGG. I don't even count it as part of my net worth. It has the same overall value as a nuclear bunker.
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You may not get a week, plus it's still all paper, or in this case, electrons on a screen.
There are hedges and then there are HEDGES.
Mining and food stocks are hedges. Food, ammo, physical gold/silver are HEDGES. When I say I am long in physical precious metals, I am LOOOONNNNGGG. I don't even count it as part of my net worth. It has the same overall value as a nuclear bunker.
I understand, I wasn't criticizing you.
I have had physical gold and silver since mid 2008 (when I noticed something fishy going on in the global economy) until November of last year when I quit my job to temporarily retire in another country. I sold all my gold and silver as they weren't paying a dividend or interest, which I desperately need as I have no employment income.
I think buying precious metal miners are a good compromise as they are the motherfuckers that dig that shit out of the ground and sell it. They basically own in ground gold at the moment. There is the risk that governments will nationalize gold miners due to a currency crisis though, which means you will be forces to settle in cash.
Don't forget that the gov can "confiscate" you gold and make it illegal to possess. It's been done before, particularly in the US.
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You may not get a week, plus it's still all paper, or in this case, electrons on a screen.
There are hedges and then there are HEDGES.
Mining and food stocks are hedges. Food, ammo, physical gold/silver are HEDGES. When I say I am long in physical precious metals, I am LOOOONNNNGGG. I don't even count it as part of my net worth. It has the same overall value as a nuclear bunker.
I like your style AJ.
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I understand, I wasn't criticizing you.
I have had physical gold and silver since mid 2008 (when I noticed something fishy going on in the global economy) until November of last year when I quit my job to temporarily retire in another country. I sold all my gold and silver as they weren't paying a dividend or interest, which I desperately need as I have no employment income.
I think buying precious metal miners are a good compromise as they are the motherfuckers that dig that shit out of the ground and sell it. They basically own in ground gold at the moment. There is the risk that governments will nationalize gold miners due to a currency crisis though,
The other downside risk is that your paper holdings will have been used as collateral to secure other derivative holdings. And those are used as collateral against other holdings. Should an unwind happen, your printed stock certificate isn't worth much. There is speculation that the paper gold "holdings" are leveraged 10x or more. If there is ever a run on gold redemptions, the whole thing collapses.
Why do you think that JPM holds $4 trillion (not a misprint) of gold derivative holding, effectively cornering the market? They are artificially depressing the price with rigged puts to keep the canary from dying.
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The other downside risk is that your paper holdings will have been used as collateral to secure other derivative holdings. And those are used as collateral against other holdings. Should an unwind happen, your printed stock certificate isn't worth much. There is speculation that the paper gold "holdings" are leveraged 10x or more. If there is ever a run on gold redemptions, the whole thing collapses.
Why do you think that JPM holds $4 trillion (not a misprint) of gold derivative holding, effectively cornering the market? They are artificially depressing the price with rigged puts to keep the canary from dying.
Yeah, I don't really trust gold ETFs (as distinct from gold mining companies).
I added to my previous message, maybe you'd like to comment.
"I think buying precious metal miners are a good compromise as they are the motherfuckers that dig that shit out of the ground and sell it. They basically own in ground gold at the moment. There is the risk that governments will nationalize gold miners due to a currency crisis though, which means you will be forces to settle in cash.
Don't forget that the gov can "confiscate" your gold and make it illegal to possess. It's been done before, particularly in the US."
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Don't forget that the gov can "confiscate" your gold and make it illegal to possess. It's been done before, particularly in the US."
They can try, but they will have to find it. If they want to go door to door, good luck. They might find a lot more lead than gold. We are a lot less trusting of government's motives today than 1933.
All of my precious metals purchases have been done with cash, in $5000 increments. As a matter of fact, my metals broker refers to me ONLY as "Mister Cash". He knows the score as well as anybody.
Like I said, this is a HEDGE. If my metals stocks are being used, it means that there is no longer a functioning federal government.
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Daaamn!!! We are the center of the World!!!
HAHAHAHA
Thanks Falco!!!
AJ MY point is that within Europe, we MAYBE find the right path to reform our State, and not to reform it by the Communist way. Many of my friends are voting NO when at the same time, they don't support Greek locaal stores, but they spend their money on the internet... or they are spending their money every night at the clubs... we are talking here for a sick society, that the commusnist way of our Goverment is not going to be ynderstaned after the referance... they are not ready for the Socialist Reform... they don't know what it means...
So, my last words are that Middle Ages Greeks such as Georgios Plithon Gemistos, and other philosophers of the Frist Byzantine Humanism part, gave to Europe the main principles above the Rainesanse and the construction of a union.
I deeply believe in this Union, I feel a European citizen and I don't believe in any way that Varoufakis (with many many money outside of Greece) and his friends, will give us what they promised.
LOVE YOU ALL (NO HOMO)
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Daaamn!!! We are the center of the World!!!
HAHAHAHA
Thanks Falco!!!
AJ MY point is that within Europe, we MAYBE find the right path to reform our State, and not to reform it by the Communist way. Many of my friends are voting NO when at the same time, they don't support Greek locaal stores, but they spend their money on the internet... or they are spending their money every night at the clubs... we are talking here for a sick society, that the commusnist way of our Goverment is not going to be ynderstaned after the referance... they are not ready for the Socialist Reform... they don't know what it means...
So, my last words are that Middle Ages Greeks such as Georgios Plithon Gemistos, and other philosophers of the Frist Byzantine Humanism part, gave to Europe the main principles above the Rainesanse and the construction of a union.
I deeply believe in this Union, I feel a European citizen and I don't believe in any way that Varoufakis (with many many money outside of Greece) and his friends, will give us what they promised.
LOVE YOU ALL (NO HOMO)
Fair enough and you CERTAINLY know better than I, considering your exact location.
I just hope that "being European" carries with it some value, as I cannot discern any from over here.
Good luck and keep your head down when the Molotovs start to fly.
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Daaamn!!! We are the center of the World!!!
HAHAHAHA
Thanks Falco!!!
AJ MY point is that within Europe, we MAYBE find the right path to reform our State, and not to reform it by the Communist way. Many of my friends are voting NO when at the same time, they don't support Greek locaal stores, but they spend their money on the internet... or they are spending their money every night at the clubs... we are talking here for a sick society, that the commusnist way of our Goverment is not going to be ynderstaned after the referance... they are not ready for the Socialist Reform... they don't know what it means...
So, my last words are that Middle Ages Greeks such as Georgios Plithon Gemistos, and other philosophers of the Frist Byzantine Humanism part, gave to Europe the main principles above the Rainesanse and the construction of a union.
I deeply believe in this Union, I feel a European citizen and I don't believe in any way that Varoufakis (with many many money outside of Greece) and his friends, will give us what they promised.
LOVE YOU ALL (NO HOMO)
It makes me really angry that the Irish have gone through painful Austerity measures to get our asses out of this recession and the Greeks continued to piss about and do deals in cash and under the table. A guy was on the radio today telling about while on holidays in Greece for 3 weeks he only could use his credit card ONCE and that was to book a hotel online. The rest of everything he did was cash. Several restaurants actually gave him hand-written bills (to avoid a paper trail). The taxi drivers turned off their meters and every time an argument ensued because he got ripped off. Plumbers, carpenters, tradies of all kinds do jobs for cash all the time. Corrupt beyond belief. How do you morons expect to have services if you don't pay tax?
Your people are useless, lazy wasters. Centre of Europe my fucking arse. Let's not talk about 2000 fucking years ago let's talk about now. Get your fucking act together you imbeciles.
Look at your elected PM. He arrives on a fucking motorbike. Doesn't even wear a tie when he's at crucial talks with the likes of Merkel, etc. Doesn't really leave a good impression?
I hate the fucking EU but we're stuck in it and you shower of shits are not worth a fucking fuck.
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It makes me really angry that the Irish have gone through painful Austerity measures to get our asses out of this recession and the Greeks continued to piss about and do deals in cash and under the table. A guy was on the radio today telling about while on holidays in Greece for 3 weeks he only could use his credit card ONCE and that was to book a hotel online. The rest of everything he did was cash. Several restaurants actually gave him hand-written bills (to avoid a paper trail). The taxi drivers turned off their meters and every time an argument ensued because he got ripped off. Your people are useless, lazy wasters. Centre of Europe my fucking arse. Let's not talk about 2000 fucking years ago let's talk about now. Get your fucking act together you imbeciles.
Look at your elected PM. He arrives on a fucking motorbike. Doesn't even wear a tie when he's at crucial talks with the likes of Merkel, etc. Doesn't really leave a good impression?
I hate the fucking EU but we're stuck in it and you shower of shits are not worth a fucking fuck.
And here's Prime Minister Dave of Ireland bringing his plethora of knowledge and understanding. This is so much more than about Greece being lazy. It's seems you don't get this. Lol at lashing out at a Getbigger for your country's problems.
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Fair enough and you CERTAINLY know better than I, considering your exact location.
I just hope that "being European" carries with it some value, as I cannot discern any from over here.
Good luck and keep your head down when the Molotovs start to fly.
I certainly don't feel like I'm "European". I'm Irish. European to me sounds like faggy Italian, Spanish, French, etc. All queers. No backbone or guile. Gimme an Irish, English, Welsh or Scotsman (or American/Aus/Canadian) man to have a pint with any day.
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Here, listen monkey boy. It has a A HUGE amount to do with the Greeks being lazy. I know it's much deeper than that but the Greek government have admitted that they were doing "false deals" and had no intention of really implementing austerity. Don't talk down to me, black. The recession here was mostly brought on by our housing bubble (which you will know nothing about). We are out of it. How's Colleen?
Dave if you're going to sit at the big boy table and talk like an adult, throwing around racial epitaphs isn't part of it. And no, it's not a huge part of it. You need to be directing your anger towards central banks, but I don't expect someone of your ilk to understand that. As long as you fly off the handle and show ever growing stupidity, I'm going to continue to talk down to you. I'm your intellectual superior ogre. Shut up, listen, and learn boy. My girlfriend is fine. Your passive aggressive threats mean nothing. I have what I need on you and at any moment I deem fit, I'll pull the trigger...Now, back on topic. Are we going to have an adult conversation or would you like to continue your tantrum?
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Dave if you're going to sit at the big boy table and talk like an adult, throwing around racial epitaphs isn't part of it. And no, it's not a huge part of it. You need to be directing your anger towards central banks, but I don't expect someone of your ilk to understand that. As long as you fly off the handle and show ever growing stupidity, I'm going to continue to talk down to you. I'm your intellectual superior ogre. Shut up, listen, and learn boy. My girlfriend is fine. Your passive aggressive threats mean nothing. I have what I need on you and at any moment I deem fit, I'll pull the trigger...Now, back on topic. Are we going to have an adult conversation or would you like to continue your tantrum?
I have everything I need on you too and I'd wager it's a hella lot more than you have on me :) I had certain people do certain things to find out certain things for me. You wanna play games I'll play real life games
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Dave if you're going to sit at the big boy table and talk like an adult, throwing around racial epitaphs isn't part of it. And no, it's not a huge part of it. You need to be directing your anger towards central banks, but I don't expect someone of your ilk to understand that. As long as you fly off the handle and show ever growing stupidity, I'm going to continue to talk down to you. I'm your intellectual superior ogre. Shut up, listen, and learn boy. My girlfriend is fine. Your passive aggressive threats mean nothing. I have what I need on you and at any moment I deem fit, I'll pull the trigger...Now, back on topic. Are we going to have an adult conversation or would you like to continue your tantrum?
Umm..."epithets", not "epitaphs"
Sorry, man. Autocorrect?
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I have everything I need on you too and I'd wager it's a hella lot more than you have on me :)
Good luck. :-*
Hope you come to Vegas.
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Good luck. :-*
Hope you come to Vegas. I'd love a reason to put a bullet in you.
Lol, what a meltdown. Death threats again!
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Lol, what a meltdown. Death threats again!
You want real life? Let's see how big your balls are ogre...
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Umm..."epithets", not "epitaphs"
Sorry, man. Autocorrect?
Lol. Yep.
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Sorry but Dave is right... corruption and failure of logical behaviour at the 90% pf our citizens...
Another example: many people at the gym that I work, they are screaming "FUCK EUROPE, SAY NOOO!!!: and at the same time, they want from me not to give them a tax check for they payment in order to have a 5 euro discount...
We have to be educated as citizens and that's not going to happened outside of European Union!!! We gonna be back when the Turks were here... they "teach" as this thing of corruption.
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GREEK EURO CRISIS SENDS RIPPLE EFFECTS ACROSS THE REGION
(http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/07/ap_ap-photo13-640x427.jpg)
Side-effects of the euro crisis are spreading beyond Greek borders into Bulgaria, Romania and Macedonia. Once seen as their poverty-stricken northern neighbours, Greeks are now looking to Bulgaria for some relief.
Euobserver reports that with Greek banks closed and the state in limbo pending the referendum, debt renegotiation and even a possible euro exit, hotels and restaurants in northern Greece have begun taking payments in Bulgarian levs (BGN). The foreign currency is then used as an entrepreneurial work around to avoid the Greek ATM restrictions recently introduced.
Automatic teller machines in Thessaloniki had run out of cash and nobody could withdraw even five euros, said Bulgarian Rumen Galabinov, who runs a financial consultancy and used to sit on Bulgarias financial and insurance supervision panels in 2003. He continued:
After a lunch at a local restaurant, I joked, asking whether they would accept a payment in levs, and the owner agreed
The restaurant owner, who also had two hotels, said his Bulgarian guests would be welcome to pay in levs. Then, the owner would travel to Sandanski [in southern Bulgaria] and exchange the levs for euros to have cash for his daily supplies.
Galabinov also predicted both Greek businesses and private depositors may travel to Bulgaria to withdraw money from Greek bank branches there. Although the banks are established under Bulgarian law, therefore not subject to the Greek capital controls, they cannot transfer money to their Greek counterparts without permission from the Bulgarian National Bank.
Since mid-1997 BGN has been pegged to the euro at an exchange rate of BGN1.95 for 1. In order to sort out the aftermath of a financial crash and hyperinflation caused by government mismanagement, Bulgaria was then forced to introduce a currency board to promote financial stability.
In marked contrast to its neighbour it stuck with fiscal prudence and the former Communist country now has one of the lowest debt-to-GDP ratios in the EU 27.6 per cent in 2014.
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You want real life? Let's see how big your balls are ogre...
C'mon guys this is serious shit we are dealing with here.
Enough of mud slinging. Stay focused.
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they're like the mexicans of Europe
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It makes me really angry that the Irish have gone through painful Austerity measures to get our asses out of this recession and the Greeks continued to piss about and do deals in cash and under the table. A guy was on the radio today telling about while on holidays in Greece for 3 weeks he only could use his credit card ONCE and that was to book a hotel online. The rest of everything he did was cash. Several restaurants actually gave him hand-written bills (to avoid a paper trail). The taxi drivers turned off their meters and every time an argument ensued because he got ripped off. Plumbers, carpenters, tradies of all kinds do jobs for cash all the time. Corrupt beyond belief. How do you morons expect to have services if you don't pay tax?
Your people are useless, lazy wasters. Centre of Europe my fucking arse. Let's not talk about 2000 fucking years ago let's talk about now. Get your fucking act together you imbeciles.
Look at your elected PM. He arrives on a fucking motorbike. Doesn't even wear a tie when he's at crucial talks with the likes of Merkel, etc. Doesn't really leave a good impression?
I hate the fucking EU but we're stuck in it and you shower of shits are not worth a fucking fuck.
seems to me that the more corruption a country/region has, the lower the quality of the peoples that inhabits.
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Greece needs a Huey Long.
While thousands of banks were failing nationally, only seven small banks failed in
Louisiana because Huey Long took a proactive and practical approach to regulating the
banks early. He also prevented runs by shoring up fragile institutions with large deposits
of state funds. (He reassured customers that if they kept their deposits at the bank, he
would keep the states deposit there as well, and no one would lose their money by a
massive run.) New Orleans was the nations second largest banking center at the time.
While the bankers resented Huey Longs regulation of their practices, his interference
proved prescient and correct.
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Greece needs a Huey Long.
While thousands of banks were failing nationally, only seven small banks failed in
Louisiana because Huey Long took a proactive and practical approach to regulating the
banks early. He also prevented runs by shoring up fragile institutions with large deposits
of state funds. (He reassured customers that if they kept their deposits at the bank, he
would keep the states deposit there as well, and no one would lose their money by a
massive run.) New Orleans was the nations second largest banking center at the time.
While the bankers resented Huey Longs regulation of their practices, his interference
proved prescient and correct.
The problem is that there are no "state funds" to shore up Greek banks. That's the problem, the Greeks are begging for a.) debt forgiveness and b.) more debt. The "state" in this metaphor is the IMF and Huey Long is Lagarde.
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Only 467 Greekos emigrated to Australia in 2014/15 .............official numbers
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This is where the US is headed if we don't change things very soon. Socialism, ever-increasing taxes, spending, and entitlements, printing and pumping money, zero interest rates for years on end, the redistribution of wealth, and disincentivizing the half who produce everything and support the half who aren't productive is putting us on a dangerous course.
I think that if Obama doesn't get us there, Hillary certainly could. But if it happens here, the whole world will feel it, and it just may be the end of everything. Not a nuclear bomb, global warming, or a meteor - the economic collapse of the United States will probably be the end of it all.
As for paper investments, gold, cash, etc, I don't think any of it will make a difference. Could anyone imagine how such a scenario Greece is going through would pan out here? Look at the way some act in urban areas when a criminal case having nothing to do with them personally doesn't go their way. How do you think they'll act when they can only get so much $ out of their ATMs each day? Or if their entitlement checks stop coming in? Or if their EBT cards no longer work? If they can't somehow get their hands on groceries?
I doubt very many of the entitled have stockpiles of physical gold, and that very many of them would wait patiently in line at the ATM machine or various government agency offices for solutions to their new problems.
And every other country would pretty much all be fucked as well if we failed and our dollars were literally worthless. I think this would be the end of everything.
I don't want to see such a thing happen here. If it does, I hope the can can at least be kicked down the road a while longer until I'm gone. If I wake up one morning and find that pretty much everything I've worked and saved for is all gone - and I have nothing but a home that probably has no electricity and just some water, ammo, and canned goods - I'll probably snap anyway. That's not the kind of life I'd want to live for several more decades.
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This is where the US is headed if we don't change things very soon. Socialism, ever-increasing taxes, spending, and entitlements, printing and pumping money, zero interest rates for years on end, the redistribution of wealth, and disincentivizing the half who produce everything and support the half who aren't productive is putting us on a dangerous course.
You can't be serious... Greece is the opposite, no tax paying, borrowing for entitlements, cannot print their own money, the US can, thus exerting some control.
It's a completely different ball game, could it happen? obviously, it's not a similar situation and the US are in a much much better position.
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FOOD SHORTAGE FEARS
Greek bank closures may deplete supermarket shelves
(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/aC0jF.TcQFpuIqlc7g0soA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztpbD1wbGFuZTtweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/Part-PAR-Par8216296-1-1-0.jpg)
A halt to international payments from Greek bank accounts is hurting Greek businesses and their foreign partners and threatening supplies of vital goods like food and clothing into the debt-crippled country.
With banks closed, people limited to withdrawing 60 euros ($66.62) per day and Greece's future in the euro possibly hinging on a referendum on Sunday, Greek shoppers have been stocking up on essentials like sugar, flour, pasta, rice, beans, canned and paper goods.
Shelves remain full for now as retailers have inventories in storage. But capital controls put in place after Greece defaulted on a loan to international creditors have essentially frozen companies' cash flows and credit.
This has severely hampered production and shipping, meaning that goods are in finite supply. With this week's rush to supermarkets, shortages could be around the corner although budget limits are providing some cushion.
"At this stage there is no problem of shortages. There is sufficient stock in our warehouses and we renew it frequently," said Melina Varoutsikou, spokeswoman for Sklavenitis, one of Greece's largest supermarket chains.
"However, nobody knows how much these can last. It all depends on which product we are talking about."
With no international bank transfers, imports and exports have been clobbered, according to SEV-Hellenic Federation of Enterprises, meaning there are fewer raw materials, even for local production, and less petrol available for deliveries.
The Greek finance ministry said on Friday that companies wishing to process bank transfers abroad to pay suppliers must submit a request to the Committee of Approval of Bank Transfers through their commercial bank.
The ministry said companies can get further information by going to their home branch or calling their bank's central number. But for quicker processing, the ministry recommended faxing the requests. It made no mention of e-mail, the medium often used for international business.
Meanwhile, sellers of perishable items like fresh fruit and vegetables stand to realize losses as shipments are stalled.
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You can't be serious... Greece is the opposite, no tax paying, borrowing for entitlements, cannot print their own money, the US can, thus exerting some control.
It's a completely different ball game, could it happen? obviously, it's not a similar situation and the US are in a much much better position.
We have 19 trillion in debt and $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Large cities and even some states are or have been in trouble.
Nearly half of our population is on some form of assistance. Industrial production is down. Labor participation rates the lowest since '77, debt to GDP has skyrocketed. GDP growth is anemic for the last 7 years. Regulations like the ACA and Dodd-Frank are costing businesses more and more money and stifling productivity.
You don't want employment to be "increased" on paper by having 2 part time workers replace one full time worker, or by grossly increasing government and even corporate regulators... and hiring other assorted government hacks and paying them bloated salaries, pensions, and other benefits for life as government expands more and more.
Printing money infinitely won't solve your problems. It only makes the currency worth less. In the end, printing will only make things worse eventually. Just as holding down rates for many years and pumping too much money in via endless large asset purchases will.
We need to make changes very soon. Stop spending so much, trim the fat, stop grossly overpaying cronies for every little thing, etc. People and governments spend too much - we need to look at how successful corporations run things and follow suit.
But it's easier said than done. We have a growing cultural problem that is only made worse by grievance hustlers and social justice seekers.
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I thought these shitheads got a bailout a bit ago from some of the European countries that actually matter.
What did they do with that $ ???
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http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm
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We have 19 trillion in debt and $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Large cities and even some states are or have been in trouble.
Nearly half of our population is on some form of assistance. Industrial production is down. Labor participation rates the lowest since '77, debt to GDP has skyrocketed. GDP growth is anemic for the last 7 years. Regulations like the ACA and Dodd-Frank are costing businesses more and more money and stifling productivity.
You don't want employment to be "increased" on paper by having 2 part time workers replace one full time worker, or by grossly increasing government and even corporate regulators... and hiring other assorted government hacks and paying them bloated salaries, pensions, and other benefits for life as government expands more and more.
Printing money infinitely won't solve your problems. It only makes the currency worth less. In the end, printing will only make things worse eventually. Just as holding down rates for many years and pumping too much money in via endless large asset purchases will.
We need to make changes very soon. Stop spending so much, trim the fat, stop grossly overpaying cronies for every little thing, etc. People and governments spend too much - we need to look at how successful corporations run things and follow suit.
But it's easier said than done. We have a growing cultural problem that is only made worse by grievance hustlers and social justice seekers.
Who is going to make the changes? Politicians are fucking useless, 95% of them are bought and paid for by bankers. They simply do/say what they are told. Our freedom is being eroded on a consistent basis. The US dollar buys less and less all the time.
American revolution 2 is necessary. Buy ammo.
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http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm
That's why he received a large hole in his head.
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Greeks are rushing to Bitcoin
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/technology/greece-bitcoin/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/03/us-eurozone-greece-bitcoin-idUSKCN0PD1B420150703
Buy some if you haven't already. Gold and silver are great hedges but you will need a digital currency that functions in our modern world. The Greeks are learning this now. Bitcoin is the greatest currency ever conceived and it just happens to be the only decentralized method of transaction in existence. It has no central point of failure.
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Greeks are rushing to Bitcoin
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/technology/greece-bitcoin/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/03/us-eurozone-greece-bitcoin-idUSKCN0PD1B420150703
Buy some if you haven't already. Gold and silver are great hedges but you will need a digital currency that functions in our modern world. The Greeks are learning this now. Bitcoin is the greatest currency ever conceived and it just happens to be the only decentralized method of transaction in existence. It has no central point of failure.
That's very interesting. If the BTC popularity surges, expect Greece and the EU to have absolute kittens at the thought of anybody dodging their capital controls and looming depositor haircuts.
Making popcorn...
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Why does it matter what currency they use. Their country and people don't have much to monetize from anyways.
Corrupt shithole. Goverment employees was getting reiterement payment from 50. Nobody payed taxes. The younger ones that do have some form of education moves to northern europeto find work. The country is beyond fucked no matter what kind of goverment they reinstate anyways.
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seems to me that the more corruption a country/region has, the lower the quality of the peoples that inhabits.
That's true, but I think the main problem is laziness and low IQ. Lazy, stupid people don't give a fu about politics, so politicians can get away with pretty much everything. Imagine a country with millions of Groinks, whose only interest in life is getting wasted and having sex. A country like that is doomed and a 10% of hardworking people can fix the other 90s stupidity.
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Who is going to make the changes? Politicians are fucking useless, 95% of them are bought and paid for by bankers. They simply do/say what they are told. Our freedom is being eroded on a consistent basis. The US dollar buys less and less all the time.
American revolution 2 is necessary. Buy ammo.
I agree. But I think big government and leftism are the biggest threats.
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I would not touch bitcoin myself with a ten foot pole right now.
Anybody who fucks with this better dabble lightly.
I'll reconsider when I start seeing the world's smartest and richest men buy into it.
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That's true, but I think the main problem is laziness and low IQ. Lazy, stupid people don't give a fu about politics, so politicians can get away with pretty much everything. Imagine a country with millions of Groinks, whose only interest in life is getting wasted and having sex. A country like that is doomed and a 10% of hardworking people can fix the other 90s stupidity.
you are describing America right..
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Is Greece the most socialist country in Europe?
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Is Greece the most socialist country in Europe?
They are not socialist. They are some weird welfare satellite state
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They are not socialist. They are some weird welfare satellite state
There's a difference?
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I called this whole fiasco 10 years ago when Greece spent billions to host the Olympics. I questioned where they would get the money from and what would they do with all the useless stadiums when it was over. Greece was spending billions it didn't have to host a useless two weeks of games.
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Didn't these guys used to be real good with philosophy and science and art and pedophilia and whatnot?
The fuck happened?
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European leaders gave Greece a stark ultimatum Tuesday night: Reach a new bailout agreement with its creditors by Sunday or face bankruptcy and expulsion from the euro currency system.
The leaders gave Greece until Thursday to submit new economic reform proposals to justify fresh lending by international creditors, and they said the group would meet again Sunday to make a final decision on whether to approve another bailout for the distressed nation.
"If this does not happen, it will mean an end of the negotiations with all the possible consequences, including the worst-case scenario, where all of us will lose," European Council President Donald Tusk said in a statement.
"Our inability to find agreement may lead to the bankruptcy of Greece and the insolvency of its banking system," Tusk added.
"Tonight I have to say loud and clear that the final deadline ends this week," Tusk said.
[snip]
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/07/07/greece-eurozone-meeting/29804091/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/07/07/greece-eurozone-meeting/29804091/)
Greece is making its bed.
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I like how they're asking the Greeks to come out with a plan. The same people that lied about their debt to join the EU, the same people that wasted away all of their money and now they expect these corrupt retards to come out with a plan? It's like asking Goodrum to get ready for the Olympia.
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I like how they're asking the Greeks to come out with a plan. The same people that lied about their debt to join the EU, the same people that wasted away all of their money and now they expect these corrupt retards to come out with a plan? It's like asking Goodrum to get ready for the Olympia.
;D
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If the UK economy totally meltsdown overnight, the most interesting aspect will be watching generation nothingness checking facebook and hoping somebody explains on there what it all means. :-\ A large percentage of people will probably not even realise for the first few days ;D
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If the UK economy totally meltsdown overnight, the most interesting aspect will be watching generation nothingness checking facebook and hoping somebody explains on there what it all means. :-\ A large percentage of people will probably not even realise for the first few days ;D
It's like the stupid Greeks in the streets protesting. If they only realized how much money their politicians stole from them they would take down their own government. They are too stupid to realize.
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I like how they're asking the Greeks to come out with a plan. The same people that lied about their debt to join the EU, the same people that wasted away all of their money and now they expect these corrupt retards to come out with a plan? It's like asking Goodrum to get ready for the Olympia.
So tough in your assessment of Greece, when America's financial situation is not that different..
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I called this whole fiasco 10 years ago when Greece spent billions to host the Olympics. I questioned where they would get the money from and what would they do with all the useless stadiums when it was over. Greece was spending billions it didn't have to host a useless two weeks of games.
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The Olympics are a joke anyway. Just a bunch of people with useless talents.
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So tough in your assessment of Greece, when America's financial situation is not that different..
God you're a fucking retard. The USA at least produces a lot of goods. Oil, Wheat, Corn, Sugar etc... Greece doesn't have anything. They depend on tourism.
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God you're a fucking retard. The USA at least produces a lot of goods. Oil, Wheat, Corn, Sugar etc... Greece doesn't have anything. They depend on tourism.
Don't forget they also have...
a sauce made from fish eggs?
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God you're a fucking retard. The USA at least produces a lot of goods. Oil, Wheat, Corn, Sugar etc... Greece doesn't have anything. They depend on tourism.
OK buddy.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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Just like Wiggs said, "kicking the can down the road." That is exactly what is happening in the US as the national debt rises. We have a fast growing entitlement culture and I'm not talking about social security. I'm talking about welfare and the exploding disability social security. People are realizing they can get a check for life plus housing assistance, food stamps, phone and in the near future internet access if they get documented disabled. It's not that hard. In one town 10 miles from me it seems every home house wife is getting a disability check.
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i remember not reading to long ago about what a joke hosting the olympics is
every country for the money they spend to build the stadiums etc lose there asses on the olympics
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Don't worry, it all goes by plan. The fate of Greece was decided at the Bilderberg meeting 3 weeks ago, the heads of state and government got briefed afterwards. But enjoy the soap opera on TV aka "The News" :)
(http://www.info-direkt.at/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/demokrateie-e1432933620314.jpg)
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Didn't these guys used to be real good with philosophy and science and art and pedophilia and whatnot?
The fuck happened?
All that assfucking only brings about eventual destruction and ruin.
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OK buddy.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
You confuse me. You complain about the debt but then are pro war. Can't have it both ways. War is not free.
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You confuse me. You complain about the debt but then are pro war. Can't have it both ways. War is not free.
I am anti war in the sense that it should be avoided wherever possible, but sometimes there is the "just war" and right now a war against ISIS in the ME would be a just war.
The previous few frauds wars, were not "just wars."
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The Olympics are a joke anyway. Just a bunch of people with useless talents.
But hold on , your idol Kremlin Idiot spent $ 50 billions on Sochi games & place is deserted ........................ ........................ ........................ ... :D
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Reuters
By Renee Maltezou and John O'Donnell, July 9, 2015
The Greek government sent a package of reform proposals to its euro zone creditors on Thursday in a race to win new funds to avert bankruptcy and will seek a parliamentary vote on Friday to endorse immediate actions.
In the latest proposals, Greece has asked for 53.5 billion euros ($59 billion) to help cover its debts until 2018, a review of primary surplus targets and "reprofiling" the country's long-term debt.
In turn, Athens bowed to demands to phase out tax breaks for its islands -- cash cows for the tourism industry -- and to hike taxes on shipping companies.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/10/us-eurozone-greece-idUSKBN0P40EO20150710 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/10/us-eurozone-greece-idUSKBN0P40EO20150710)
Looks like someone doesn't want to get kicked out of the Eurozone.
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By Mark Thompson, CNN Money
July 12, 2015
This much was clear Sunday: Greece won't get the massive bailout it urgently needs to stay in the euro unless it commits to much deeper economic reforms and shows it can deliver them.
That was the message from European finance officials during a second day of frantic diplomacy Sunday on Greece's request for a new rescue.
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, arriving for talks in Brussels with the leaders of the other 18 countries that use the euro, said he was ready to compromise.
Whether that will be enough to get the money flowing again soon, secure Greece's membership of the euro and allow its banks to reopen, remains unclear.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel cautioned that Sunday's talks would be "difficult, and there won't be a deal at any price."
Europe and the International Monetary Fund estimate Greece needs between 82 billion and 86 billion euros ($96 billion) over the next three years, according to a document drafted by the finance officials. They have already lent Greece about 233 billion euros since 2010.
The document says the Greek government needs to go way beyond a reform proposal it submitted last week, by making much more profound changes to its pension system, energy, labor and product markets, and scaling up a program of privatization.
The talks follows an ultimatum Europe gave Tsipras this week: Show us you're serious about putting Greek finances in order, or you're out of the euro.
Trust in Greece's commitment to reform was shattered by January's election of a prime minister fiercely opposed to austerity, and a series of government U-turns in the last two weeks including calling a referendum to reject reforms it then signed up to days later.
Without agreement in principle to start talks on a bailout, the crisis in Greece will only deepen, dragging the country ever closer to exit from the euro.
http://cnnphilippines.com/business/2015/07/13/greece-new-bailout-96-billion.html (http://cnnphilippines.com/business/2015/07/13/greece-new-bailout-96-billion.html)
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I am anti war in the sense that it should be avoided wherever possible, but sometimes there is the "just war" and right now a war against ISIS in the ME would be a just war.
The previous few frauds wars, were not "just wars."
luckily, global war deaths are steadily in decline: (tab it to view bigger image)
(http://s28.postimg.org/yul1l6cyk/ourworldindata_wars_long_run_military_civilian_f.jpg)
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lol at the greeks whole lost all their money trying to come up with a plan. Fucking idiots.
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lol at the greeks whole lost all their money trying to come up with a plan. Fucking idiots.
How stupid do all the "no" voter feel now? Tsipras went and agreed to a deal about 3x worse than the one that they rejected. LOL @ Greeks getting ass-raped again. I wonder if the Parthenon was put up for collateral? It's being moved to Berlin, I heard.
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How stupid do all the "no" voter feel now? Tsipras went and agreed to a deal about 3x worse than the one that they rejected. LOL @ Greeks getting ass-raped again. I wonder if the Parthenon was put up for collateral? It's being moved to Berlin, I heard.
I don't understand why the voters don't rebel against their gov that got them in this situation. They stole, gambled, filtered all of the country's money and lied about their debt to get into the EU. Now these dumb shits are failing their country worst.
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Fuck Europian union its equal to Soviet union.
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Flaim on!!! You are right!!!
Last night I was working at an event, where was a famous Greek singer called Mazonakis... We sold 22 MOETs and uncountable Belvederes... 96.000 euros at one night!!! And the most of the people there vote "NO"!!!
Is is to late for us to rebel...
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Yay, Greece. Bought some time. We'll be revisiting the bailout in the next year, or two.
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Yay, Greece. Bought some time. We'll be revisiting the bailout in the next year, or two.
Of course. Greece is like the little druggie child that the dealer doesn't want to let go. Keep giving it drugs and its problem gets worse keep giving it some more.
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Is is to late for us to rebel...
It's never too late. The question is are there enough of you?
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Aj the true rebelion is going to happen, when we dicide to reform our State, to make it much more fair and when we will be aducated and loyal to the Laws. When this is will happen, we will be ready to achieve a better life for us, without loans!!!
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Aj the true rebelion is going to happen, when we dicide to reform our State, to make it much more fair and when we will be aducated and loyal to the Laws. When this is will happen, we will be ready to achieve a better life for us, without loans!!!
When a lender lends knowing that there is no way that repayment can be made, he is equally complicit in the default.
Lift right hand, extend middle finger towards Berlin. Print drachma, go through a few years of tough times and get out while you can.