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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on August 23, 2015, 07:14:14 AM
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Will a new people smuggling/hiding operation emerge, if Trump wins and follows thru on kicking out all of the dream babies and illegal aliens?
There will be 17-year old kids that don't speak a lick of Spanish, who have been living in Idaho or Oregon their entire lives... wont' many of these people just 'go underground' and hide? will there be pockets of people, out of these 11 to 20 million people, hiding out? What % of LEO resources will be devoted to them? Do we pull people from other departments to hunt down these 17 year old criminals?
I think it's interesting to consider some of the outcomes and ramifications of Trump's policy to kick out 6 to 7% of the population (maybe higher)
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The children, if born here, are American citizens. If the parents want them to stay, they can stay or they can go and return anytime they choose.
Deportations have ramped up quite a bit under Obama. If they somehow, miraculously, ramped up even further, I would guess that the first blister would be an economic crisis.
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Will Arnold lovechild be deported?
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Will Arnold lovechild be deported?
HA! ;D
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The children, if born here, are American citizens. If the parents want them to stay, they can stay or they can go and return anytime they choose.
Deportations have ramped up quite a bit under Obama. If they somehow, miraculously, ramped up even further, I would guess that the first blister would be an economic crisis.
if illegal parents are deported the children should have to go with them...this keeps families together.....if not then we would have to build massive orphanages
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if illegal parents are deported the children should have to go with them...this keeps families together.....if not then we would have to build massive orphanages
what parents would leave their 2 year old here in america, and just head back. It's gonna take massive law enforcement efforts to enforce this. Probably the biggest story of our generation, exporting so many families.
personally, I think trump has no intention of following thru with it - he's just blowing hot air, throwing red meat to the base...
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There has to be people close to Trump who is an illegal and he can't play favorites with this one. Stuff like that, is impossible to keep secret,, it will make its way out and backfire against him.
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The 14th ammendment will not be repealed. More non issues to gin up the haters and keep attention away from real issues. Same with abortion, planned parenthood,
repealing the aca, birthers etc.......useless polotical issues.
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if illegal parents are deported the children should have to go with them...this keeps families together.....if not then we would have to build massive orphanages
That's not the law and it's not a compelling reason to change the law, either. If they are American citizens, they are entitled to stay.
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what parents would leave their 2 year old here in america, and just head back. It's gonna take massive law enforcement efforts to enforce this. Probably the biggest story of our generation, exporting so many families.
personally, I think trump has no intention of following thru with it - he's just blowing hot air, throwing red meat to the base...
All of the children aren't 2-years old. And it's not as if these aren't circumstances that haven't already been dealt with.
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That's not the law and it's not a compelling reason to change the law, either. If they are American citizens, they are entitled to stay.
NO...its not the law,,,but in real life actuality, WHO IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THESE CHILDREN?????????...you?
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NO...its not the law,,,but in real life actuality, WHO IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THESE CHILDREN?????????...you?
Do you really believe that illegal immigration is taking away your jobs? Your money?
Honestly?
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Do you really believe that illegal immigration is taking away your jobs? Your money?
Honestly?
No....they are doing jobs that other Americans don't want to do....BUT..its a question of maintaining control of who is coming here and keeping people from becoming American citizens so as to collect benefits....also its not fair to those who apply and wait..I think its a red herring since republicans have traditionally criticized illegal immigration but have turned a blind eye with a wink toward enforcing the immigration laws since their conservative business leaders BENEFIT from the cheap labor
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No....they are doing jobs that other Americans don't want to do....BUT..its a question of maintaining control of who is coming here and keeping people from becoming American citizens so as to collect benefits....also its not fair to those who apply and wait..I think its a red herring since republicans have traditionally criticized illegal immigration but have turned a blind eye with a wink toward enforcing the immigration laws since their conservative business leaders BENEFIT from the cheap labor
We know that they do pay taxes... 6 million illegals pay Social Security and never get anything back... because they can't.
We know that they do honest work... Most are employed doing things that other people don't... as you said.
We know that they are a boost to local economies and not a drain... They have to buy groceries and other things.
So really, the problem is that our immigration system is so fucked that people have to wait YEARS to get citizenship.
Why?
When immigration was at its PEAK, you got off a boat, signed a paper, pledged to the US and you moved on... Why did that stop?
What happened?
These illegals are not the problem... The problem is the "legals" who want to change the way of life of the US in regards to how our laws and policies work... Sharia law and things of that nature.
Fix the process to become citizens and this conversation is over.
I find it interesting how a group of people (the right wing) who hate government or so they say, are unwilling to admit that government policies put us into this bind and the policy is what needs to change. The fact of the matter is that most of the time, government does shit wrong... putting them in charge of deportation of illegals even more will just be a bigger drain on us.
Make them citizens.
Look at them and say, here's the deal... anyone who is an illegal, you get 6 months to come by and we are going to make you a citizen.
After that, no more breaks... if you cross illegally, you get caught, you get sent back. If you had an opportunity to apply for easy citizenship and you didn't... sorry... you had your chance.
No breaks.
Maybe some will skate by, but most won't.
I'm not against a hard line stance, but the government put us in this position and to simply say, well, fuck you guys... you've been here too long is wrong.
The long term illegals are just as much a part of this country as anyone else.
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We know that they do pay taxes... 6 million illegals pay Social Security and never get anything back... because they can't.
We know that they do honest work... Most are employed doing things that other people don't... as you said.
We know that they are a boost to local economies and not a drain... They have to buy groceries and other things.
So really, the problem is that our immigration system is so fucked that people have to wait YEARS to get citizenship.
Why?
When immigration was at its PEAK, you got off a boat, signed a paper, pledged to the US and you moved on... Why did that stop?
What happened?
These illegals are not the problem... The problem is the "legals" who want to change the way of life of the US in regards to how our laws and policies work... Sharia law and things of that nature.
Fix the process to become citizens and this conversation is over.
I find it interesting how a group of people (the right wing) who hate government or so they say, are unwilling to admit that government policies put us into this bind and the policy is what needs to change. The fact of the matter is that most of the time, government does shit wrong... putting them in charge of deportation of illegals even more will just be a bigger drain on us.
Make them citizens.
Look at them and say, here's the deal... anyone who is an illegal, you get 6 months to come by and we are going to make you a citizen.
After that, no more breaks... if you cross illegally, you get caught, you get sent back. If you had an opportunity to apply for easy citizenship and you didn't... sorry... you had your chance.
No breaks.
Maybe some will skate by, but most won't.
I'm not against a hard line stance, but the government put us in this position and to simply say, well, fuck you guys... you've been here too long is wrong.
The long term illegals are just as much a part of this country as anyone else.
I like your analogy of how people used to just get off a boat, get a medical, and then would just swear allegiance to the United states and VOILA!!!!...would be citizens....I LOLed at that because you are right!.......I think the difference then is that most people coming here then were WHITE
Now that is mostly non-whites, NOW all of a sudden things get complicated
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I like your analogy of how people used to just get off a boat, get a medical, and then would just swear allegiance to the United states and VOILA!!!!...would be citizens....I LOLed at that because you are right!.......I think the difference then is that most people coming here then were WHITE
Now that is mostly non-whites, NOW all of a sudden things get complicated
Possibly... It shouldn't be that way.
You should be able to walk up to the border, say you want to become a citizen, and at least start the process.
The way we make people jump through hoops is a big part of the issue.
Had a conversation with a buddy of mine and he was on Trumps side with this, but after we talked, he too agrees that it's the way people have to spend YEARS on lists just to get to become legal citizens is really the true issue.
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NO...its not the law,,,but in real life actuality, WHO IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THESE CHILDREN?????????...you?
Wow, it's almost as if a new problem was created while trying to deal with another issue. ::)
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To what end do we remove the hoops, Tu?
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I like your analogy of how people used to just get off a boat, get a medical, and then would just swear allegiance to the United states and VOILA!!!!...would be citizens....I LOLed at that because you are right!.......I think the difference then is that most people coming here then were WHITE
Now that is mostly non-whites, NOW all of a sudden things get complicated
Nothing to do with 'white' or anything like that. Only in your mind.
The structure of this nation has been built, and we've arrived at a time that requires less people to comfortably progress forward while leading good lives. That's why we've made our families smaller.
Turn off your TV, Andre. It's given you too many dumb ideas already and it may be too late for you.
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To what end do we remove the hoops, Tu?
I am not 100 percent sure to be honest, however I don't think it should take years for someone to become a citizen should they desire to.
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Possibly... It shouldn't be that way.
You should be able to walk up to the border, say you want to become a citizen, and at least start the process.
The way we make people jump through hoops is a big part of the issue.
Had a conversation with a buddy of mine and he was on Trumps side with this, but after we talked, he too agrees that it's the way people have to spend YEARS on lists just to get to become legal citizens is really the true issue.
That's a big issue to TuHolmes but to tens of millions of Americans it really isn't.
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"Jobs that Americans won't do anyway" is classic brainwash from the media. It makes me want to knock the shit out of people when they use it to excuse their stupid ideas.
When someone says that, they give up any chance of appearing to know wtf they are saying. They are only helping to destroy this country by spreading false information (whether they are too dumb to know it or not - doesn't matter).
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I am not 100 percent sure to be honest, however I don't think it should take years for someone to become a citizen should they desire to.
But if you don't know, then why do you think it? Where do you get your information?
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"Jobs that Americans won't do anyway" is classic brainwash from the media. It makes me want to knock the shit out of people when they use it to excuse their stupid ideas.
When someone says that, they give up any chance of appearing to know wtf they are saying. They are only helping to destroy this country by spreading false information (whether they are too dumb to know it or not - doesn't matter).
Really? You know someone out there in the orange groves? Picking lettuce?
Seriously?
I don't know a single person who is willing to do that.
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"Jobs that Americans won't do anyway" is classic brainwash from the media. It makes me want to knock the shit out of people when they use it to excuse their stupid ideas.
When someone says that, they give up any chance of appearing to know wtf they are saying. They are only helping to destroy this country by spreading false information (whether they are too dumb to know it or not - doesn't matter).
How is it any different than the people telling you that "They're taking your jobs".
Lots of illegals taking jobs as VPs? Engineers?
I don't know what you do, but do you have a lot of illegals taking those opportunities from you?
I don't.
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For the record, the whole Trump thing looks to be bullshit. When you bring the argument to an obviously false level (the Mexicans are "rapists" "murderers" "criminals"), and you keep it there, people get the idea that it is THE argument against immigration and they can see with their own eyes that it isn't true.
Next thing you know, the people think there's no valid argument against immigration (and at that point we've lost the fight).
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For the record, the whole Trump thing looks to be bullshit. When you bring the argument to an obviously false level (the Mexicans are "rapists" "murderers" "criminals"), and you keep it there, people get the idea that it is THE argument against immigration and they can see with their own eyes that it isn't true.
Next thing you know, the people think there's no valid argument against immigration (and at that point we've lost the fight).
Certainly there are arguments against immigration.
I don't think that's what anyone is saying.
What we are saying is that if you look at the current economic environment of people who have been living in the US for tens of years and perhaps longer.
To just say "kick them all out" is not at all plausible.
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How is it any different than the people telling you that "They're taking your jobs".
Lots of illegals taking jobs as VPs? Engineers?
I don't know what you do, but do you have a lot of illegals taking those opportunities from you?
I don't.
Well, if the VPs and the engineers are OK, then I guess we're good.
I appreciate that, Tu. Maybe I was looking at it the wrong way.
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Well, if the VPs and the engineers are OK, then I guess we're good.
I appreciate that, Tu. Maybe I was looking at it the wrong way.
I mean, we are following the Republican premise of trickle down economics right?
Your sarcasm is noted, however, the rest of my post is unanswered.
Do you have a lot of illegals taking your job?
I mean, I see illegals, they're standing in the home depot parking lots trying to have someone come by and hire them to do any kind of honest days work.
I'm much more worried about the welfare recipient who sits on his porch all day not trying to do a damn thing.
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Certainly there are arguments against immigration.
I don't think that's what anyone is saying.
What we are saying is that if you look at the current economic environment of people who have been living in the US for tens of years and perhaps longer.
To just say "kick them all out" is not at all plausible.
Yes, huge part of the problem is that it's much bigger than simply moving forward. We have to try to fix a mess, too. That's why it is so important to stop the mess from getting bigger. Throwing up our hands will cause mess to grow, and we can't afford to do that.
That's why the wealthy wanted so badly to legalize things, to make it more difficult for the citizens of this country to ever have hope of fully correcting it.
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I mean, we are following the Republican premise of trickle down economics right?
Your sarcasm is noted, however, the rest of my post is unanswered.
Do you have a lot of illegals taking your job?
I mean, I see illegals, they're standing in the home depot parking lots trying to have someone come by and hire them to do any kind of honest days work.
I'm much more worried about the welfare recipient who sits on his porch all day not trying to do a damn thing.
No. You can't have it both ways. That is the worst, most despicable approach to the situation and people should be ashamed of themselves to take both those stands at the same time.
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No. You can't have it both ways. That is the worst, most despicable approach to the situation and people should be ashamed of themselves to take both those stands at the same time.
I'm confused. What is "both ways"?
Illegals do not receive welfare... They do not receive Social Security... Citizens who do nothing, they do receive those benefits.
Of what "both stands" is that?
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The longer it continues, the more difficult it will be to ever hope to correct. We will have an entire class of Americans that have given up. Just like people in "undeveloped" countries that don't have a prayers chance in HELL. This place is turning into exactly that: a 3rd world hellhole. Someone has set out to destroy this nation, and this is their method.
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I'm confused. What is "both ways"?
Illegals do not receive welfare... They do not receive Social Security... Citizens who do nothing, they do receive those benefits.
Of what "both stands" is that?
You can't welcome the widespread theft of opportunity by non-Americans, then complain when you see Americans that appear to have given up hope.
If you're going to do the one, then you should expect to see the other.
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You can't welcome the widespread theft of opportunity by non-Americans, then complain when you see Americans that appear to have given up hope.
If you're going to do the one, then you should expect to see the other.
The illegals are actually trying to work for the opportunity.
The ones sitting around doing nothing are the ones who are pissing away the opportunities the country provide.
There is no theft of opportunity... Everyone should be working towards life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
The illegals are pursuing it while the bums are not pursuing anything.
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The illegals are actually trying to work for the opportunity.
The ones sitting around doing nothing are the ones who are pissing away the opportunities the country provide.
There is no theft of opportunity... Everyone should be working towards life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
The illegals are pursuing it while the bums are not pursuing anything.
Would you say there's limitless available opportunity, Tu? Or do you think it is realistically limited?
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Would you say there's limitless available opportunity, Tu? Or do you think it is realistically limited?
I would like to believe that the opportunity is limitless. As more people come to the US, the requirement for people to do things continues to grow.
This is indicative of the world around us.
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I would like to believe that the opportunity is limitless.
So therefore you'll believe it must be true, you mean?
As more people come to the US, the requirement for people to do things continues to grow.
This is indicative of the world around us.
Could you go into detail on this?
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So therefore you'll believe it must be true, you mean?
Could you go into detail on this?
I mean that I do not have a definitive answer, but I would think so.
My statement is fairly self explanatory really.
If I am a business, of any sort, I need people to do certain things.
The amount of people who I need to do these things is directly related to how many people I am providing my services to.
If more people use my business, I need more people to provide those services.... my business grows, I need more people to provide support of the services I provide.
Does that make sense?
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I mean that I do not have a definitive answer, but I would think so.
My statement is fairly self explanatory really.
If I am a business, of any sort, I need people to do certain things.
The amount of people who I need to do these things is directly related to how many people I am providing my services to.
If more people use my business, I need more people to provide those services.... my business grows, I need more people to provide support of the services I provide.
Does that make sense?
With all due respect, Tu, it sounds like a pyramid scheme.
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You can see how quickly media's lies will fall apart.
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With all due respect, Tu, it sounds like a pyramid scheme.
But that is what businesses do.
Businesses expand and hire more people to expand with.
I have a pretty good knowledge of small business... While I work in corporate america, I have a great friend whose family owns numerous Subway Franchises (Insert Jared jokes now). They expand and hire more people, they make more money because of the expansion into new areas.
Now, of course, I have never known a business to hire more people than they need to, however if they need more people because they support more people, then they hire more people.
That is the nature of business.
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But that is what businesses do.
Businesses expand and hire more people to expand with.
I have a pretty good knowledge of small business... While I work in corporate america, I have a great friend whose family owns numerous Subway Franchises (Insert Jared jokes now). They expand and hire more people, they make more money because of the expansion into new areas.
Now, of course, I have never known a business to hire more people than they need to, however if they need more people because they support more people, then they hire more people.
That is the nature of business.
It is also in its nature to be limited. That is a hard fact of life.
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The wealthiest people on this planet would have everyone believe that an always-exploding population is what the world needs, but they are the only ones that would benefit by that.
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We need to keep the 3rd world problems OUT of America if we hope to try to perfect ourselves. That is the bottom line.
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The wealthiest people on this planet would have everyone believe that an always-exploding population is what the world needs, but they are the only ones that would benefit by that.
I don't think that small business owners are exceptionally wealthy.
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I don't think that small business owners are exceptionally wealthy.
If you mean people who would profit with illegal labor, then we are talking about criminals. Criminals belong in jail and we shouldn't worry about it beyond that.
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If you mean people who would profit with illegal labor, then we are talking about criminals. Criminals belong in jail and we shouldn't worry about it beyond that.
No, I'm talking about small business owners in general.
Legal labor using business owners... Such as the subway franchisee I mentioned before.
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No, I'm talking about small business owners in general.
Legal labor using business owners... Such as the subway franchisee I mentioned before.
Meaning that these people benefit by an always-exploding world population?
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Meaning that these people benefit by an always-exploding world population?
The denser the population, the more people to eat at the local Subway for instance.
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The denser the population, the more people to eat at the local Subway for instance.
You mean more dense in a particular area, Tu? Because I can't believe you're referring to uncontrolled growth of the entire planet.
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You mean more dense in a particular area, Tu? Because I can't believe you're referring to uncontrolled growth of the entire planet.
The are where the businesses are, certainly.
You also act like the world is running out of land sometime soon. Even in this country with over 300 million people, we are not running out of places to put people... not even close.
Do you believe that we will be running out of available space to put people in the near (next 100 years) future?
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The are where the businesses are, certainly.
You also act like the world is running out of land sometime soon. Even in this country with over 300 million people, we are not running out of places to put people... not even close.
Do you believe that we will be running out of available space to put people in the near (next 100 years) future?
You can't seriously think space is the only resource needed by a person... ???
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Or is that what you've been thinking?
???
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You can't seriously think space is the only resource needed by a person... ???
No, obviously not... However science is resolving many of the other issues... Also requiring more people to solve these issues.
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No, obviously not... However science is resolving many of the other issues... Also requiring more people to solve these issues.
So the more babies born every day, the better...
Is that your position?
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So the more babies born every day, the better...
Is that your position?
I have no position on born / death of babies.
I care about my family and that's about it.
Beyond that, one day I will die and if my opinions are wrong, they die with me.
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I have no position on born / death of babies.
I care about my family and that's about it.
Beyond that, one day I will die and if my opinions are wrong, they die with me.
No, because your opinions are probably the most common/popular out there, They'll keep going as long as people affirm them with one another. (And your family will keep going when you die, too, and that's why you should care.)
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No, because your opinions are probably the most common/popular out there, They'll keep going as long as people affirm them with one another. (And your family will keep going when you die, too, and that's why you should care.)
My opinion is a belief... Similarly to yours.
You have not yet shown where my opinion is incorrect, just as I can not prove that yours is not either.
They are opinions.
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My opinion is a belief... Similarly to yours.
You have not yet shown where my opinion is incorrect, just as I can not prove that yours is not either.
They are opinions.
OK. Then when you said this:
No, obviously not... However science is resolving many of the other issues... Also requiring more people to solve these issues.
How can you answer for it?
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OK. Then when you said this:
How can you answer for it?
I stated that... Science.
The "evil" GMOs are allowing for food to grow in harsh climates. Science allowing water to reach areas it could not before.
Things of that nature.
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Wow, it's almost as if a new problem was created while trying to deal with another issue. ::)
Agreed
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Nothing to do with 'white' or anything like that. Only in your mind.
The structure of this nation has been built, and we've arrived at a time that requires less people to comfortably progress forward while leading good lives. That's why we've made our families smaller.
Turn off your TV, Andre. It's given you too many dumb ideas already and it may be too late for you.
you are the dumb one if you honestly believe that race does not come into play at least somewhat
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Really? You know someone out there in the orange groves? Picking lettuce?
Seriously?
I don't know a single person who is willing to do that.
agreed......no one wants to wash dishes in a restaurant either..or do construction in the HOT sun and COLD winter for $10.00 an hour...if they are getting that much
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I stated that... Science.
The "evil" GMOs are allowing for food to grow in harsh climates. Science allowing water to reach areas it could not before.
Things of that nature.
so we know we have the physical space, and we may perhaps be able to bring in crops to feed them at some point if all goes well...
anything else?
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you are the dumb one if you honestly believe that race does not come into play at least somewhat
nothing close to what goes on in your mind, andre. i know that much.
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so we know we have the physical space, and we may perhaps be able to bring in crops to feed them at some point if all goes well...
anything else?
What do you feel is missing?
You have interrogated my thoughts enough... Feel free to provide your own.
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What do you feel is missing?
You have interrogated my thoughts enough... Feel free to provide your own.
nothing at all.. you were doing a good job describing the world we will have if we stay on this course.
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hate to say it, but the whole thing is a product of selfishness.
in the case of this topic, it will come back to burn people and their children, grandchildren etc. - very, very bad.
and if you think we're "helping" the rest of the world this way, you couldn't be more wrong.