If Trump deports 6 to 7% of the population - will a new "underground railroad"?

[Las Vegas]

For the record, the whole Trump thing looks to be bullshit.  When you bring the argument to an obviously false level (the Mexicans are "rapists" "murderers" "criminals"), and you keep it there, people get the idea that it is THE argument against immigration and they can see with their own eyes that it isn't true.

Next thing you know, the people think there's no valid argument against immigration (and at that point we've lost the fight).

[TuHolmes]

For the record, the whole Trump thing looks to be bullshit.  When you bring the argument to an obviously false level (the Mexicans are "rapists" "murderers" "criminals"), and you keep it there, people get the idea that it is THE argument against immigration and they can see with their own eyes that it isn't true.

Next thing you know, the people think there's no valid argument against immigration (and at that point we've lost the fight).

Certainly there are arguments against immigration.

I don't think that's what anyone is saying.

What we are saying is that if you look at the current economic environment of people who have been living in the US for tens of years and perhaps longer.

To just say "kick them all out" is not at all plausible.

[Las Vegas]

How is it any different than the people telling you that "They're taking your jobs".

Lots of illegals taking jobs as VPs? Engineers?

I don't know what you do, but do you have a lot of illegals taking those opportunities from you?

I don't.

Well, if the VPs and the engineers are OK, then I guess we're good.

I appreciate that, Tu.  Maybe I was looking at it the wrong way.

[TuHolmes]

Well, if the VPs and the engineers are OK, then I guess we're good.

I appreciate that, Tu.  Maybe I was looking at it the wrong way.

I mean, we are following the Republican premise of trickle down economics right?

Your sarcasm is noted, however, the rest of my post is unanswered.

Do you have a lot of illegals taking your job?

I mean, I see illegals, they're standing in the home depot parking lots trying to have someone come by and hire them to do any kind of honest days work.

I'm much more worried about the welfare recipient who sits on his porch all day not trying to do a damn thing.

[Las Vegas]

Certainly there are arguments against immigration.

I don't think that's what anyone is saying.

What we are saying is that if you look at the current economic environment of people who have been living in the US for tens of years and perhaps longer.

To just say "kick them all out" is not at all plausible.

Yes, huge part of the problem is that it's much bigger than simply moving forward.  We have to try to fix a mess, too.  That's why it is so important to stop the mess from getting bigger.  Throwing up our hands will cause mess to grow, and we can't afford to do that.

That's why the wealthy wanted so badly to legalize things, to make it more difficult for the citizens of this country to ever have hope of fully correcting it.

[Las Vegas]

I mean, we are following the Republican premise of trickle down economics right?

Your sarcasm is noted, however, the rest of my post is unanswered.

Do you have a lot of illegals taking your job?

I mean, I see illegals, they're standing in the home depot parking lots trying to have someone come by and hire them to do any kind of honest days work.

I'm much more worried about the welfare recipient who sits on his porch all day not trying to do a damn thing.

No.  You can't have it both ways.  That is the worst, most despicable approach to the situation and people should be ashamed of themselves to take both those stands at the same time.

[TuHolmes]

No.  You can't have it both ways.  That is the worst, most despicable approach to the situation and people should be ashamed of themselves to take both those stands at the same time.

I'm confused. What is "both ways"?

Illegals do not receive welfare... They do not receive Social Security... Citizens who do nothing, they do receive those benefits.

Of what "both stands" is that?

[Las Vegas]

The longer it continues, the more difficult it will be to ever hope to correct.  We will have an entire class of Americans that have given up.  Just like people in "undeveloped" countries that don't have a prayers chance in HELL.  This place is turning into exactly that: a 3rd world hellhole.  Someone has set out to destroy this nation, and this is their method.

[Las Vegas]

I'm confused. What is "both ways"?

Illegals do not receive welfare... They do not receive Social Security... Citizens who do nothing, they do receive those benefits.

Of what "both stands" is that?

You can't welcome the widespread theft of opportunity by non-Americans, then complain when you see Americans that appear to have given up hope. 

If you're going to do the one, then you should expect to see the other.

[TuHolmes]

You can't welcome the widespread theft of opportunity by non-Americans, then complain when you see Americans that appear to have given up hope. 

If you're going to do the one, then you should expect to see the other.

The illegals are actually trying to work for the opportunity.

The ones sitting around doing nothing are the ones who are pissing away the opportunities the country provide.

There is no theft of opportunity... Everyone should be working towards life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The illegals are pursuing it while the bums are not pursuing anything.

[Las Vegas]

The illegals are actually trying to work for the opportunity.

The ones sitting around doing nothing are the ones who are pissing away the opportunities the country provide.

There is no theft of opportunity... Everyone should be working towards life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The illegals are pursuing it while the bums are not pursuing anything.

Would you say there's limitless available opportunity, Tu?  Or do you think it is realistically limited?

[TuHolmes]

Would you say there's limitless available opportunity, Tu?  Or do you think it is realistically limited?

I would like to believe that the opportunity is limitless. As more people come to the US, the requirement for people to do things continues to grow.

This is indicative of the world around us.

[Las Vegas]

I would like to believe that the opportunity is limitless.

So therefore you'll believe it must be true, you mean?

As more people come to the US, the requirement for people to do things continues to grow.

This is indicative of the world around us.

Could you go into detail on this?

[TuHolmes]

So therefore you'll believe it must be true, you mean?

Could you go into detail on this?

I mean that I do not have a definitive answer, but I would think so.

My statement is fairly self explanatory really.

If I am a business, of any sort, I need people to do certain things.

The amount of people who I need to do these things is directly related to how many people I am providing my services to.

If more people use my business, I need more people to provide those services.... my business grows, I need more people to provide support of the services I provide.

Does that make sense?

[Las Vegas]

I mean that I do not have a definitive answer, but I would think so.

My statement is fairly self explanatory really.

If I am a business, of any sort, I need people to do certain things.

The amount of people who I need to do these things is directly related to how many people I am providing my services to.

If more people use my business, I need more people to provide those services.... my business grows, I need more people to provide support of the services I provide.

Does that make sense?

With all due respect, Tu, it sounds like a pyramid scheme.

[Las Vegas]

You can see how quickly media's lies will fall apart.

[TuHolmes]

With all due respect, Tu, it sounds like a pyramid scheme.

But that is what businesses do.

Businesses expand and hire more people to expand with.
I have a pretty good knowledge of small business... While I work in corporate america, I have a great friend whose family owns numerous Subway Franchises (Insert Jared jokes now). They expand and hire more people, they make more money because of the expansion into new areas.

Now, of course, I have never known a business to hire more people than they need to, however if they need more people because they support more people, then they hire more people.

That is the nature of business.

[Las Vegas]

But that is what businesses do.

Businesses expand and hire more people to expand with.
I have a pretty good knowledge of small business... While I work in corporate america, I have a great friend whose family owns numerous Subway Franchises (Insert Jared jokes now). They expand and hire more people, they make more money because of the expansion into new areas.

Now, of course, I have never known a business to hire more people than they need to, however if they need more people because they support more people, then they hire more people.

That is the nature of business.

It is also in its nature to be limited.  That is a hard fact of life.

[Las Vegas]

The wealthiest people on this planet would have everyone believe that an always-exploding population is what the world needs, but they are the only ones that would benefit by that.

[Las Vegas]

We need to keep the 3rd world problems OUT of America if we hope to try to perfect ourselves.  That is the bottom line.

[TuHolmes]

The wealthiest people on this planet would have everyone believe that an always-exploding population is what the world needs, but they are the only ones that would benefit by that.

I don't think that small business owners are exceptionally wealthy.

[Las Vegas]

I don't think that small business owners are exceptionally wealthy.

If you mean people who would profit with illegal labor, then we are talking about criminals.  Criminals belong in jail and we shouldn't worry about it beyond that.

[TuHolmes]

If you mean people who would profit with illegal labor, then we are talking about criminals.  Criminals belong in jail and we shouldn't worry about it beyond that.

No, I'm talking about small business owners in general.

Legal labor using business owners... Such as the subway franchisee I mentioned before.

[Las Vegas]

No, I'm talking about small business owners in general.

Legal labor using business owners... Such as the subway franchisee I mentioned before.

Meaning that these people benefit by an always-exploding world population?

[TuHolmes]

Meaning that these people benefit by an always-exploding world population?

The denser the population, the more people to eat at the local Subway for instance.