Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: NickEdge779 on October 09, 2015, 02:08:07 PM
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I've seen some really weak jacked guys and I've seen some really strong skinny guys. So it's always confusing hearing the progressive overload is required to gain mass.
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Genetics.....its that simple
The longer i work out the more i realize all these rep schemes, overloads, whatever...all bullshit.
Your body responds to simple weight lifting, or it doesnt...when it doesnt, then people start racking their brain with schemes and crazy things. It never works. Thats where trainers come in with theories and supplements and try to capitalize on people who cant make gainsq
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Genetics.....its that simple
The longer i work out the more i realize all these rep schemes, overloads, whatever...all bullshit.
Your body responds to simple weight lifting, or it doesnt...when it doesnt, then people start racking their brain with schemes and crazy things. It never works. Thats where trainers come in with theories and supplements and try to capitalize on people who cant make gainsq
This ^
It's just true. I realised that after yearsss of training. Just lift. Some ppl after 5 years of training can't bench 225lbs, other are benching 275 for 10 reps or more. Some guy will be good at squat, other at deadlift. Guy will gain muscle lifting light, other lifting heavy.
Most important, having pleasure at gym. Are set of 5 good at gaining strenght ? For me set of 5 are ok for squat and dead, for benching it's more 12/15 reps.
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The longer you train, the less progressive overload is necessary to make gains.
Time under tension and higer rep range are more important. Most BB make the mistake of training in too low rep ranges.
High intensity (failure) will compromize total volume, so you need to carefully balance that, or alter periods of training to failure with periods of moderate intensity high(er) volume training.
When you are over your top in terms of strength (over 35) you definitely don't need progressive overload anymore for hypertrophy.
Many bodybuilders increased in muscle mass while training much lighter then before.
Big guys like Nasser, Dillet, Cutler and Wolf trained hard when they were younger, but as they were not weightlifters they didn't overdo and once they reached a decent strenght level they started accumulating muscle mass by specific hypertrophy training.
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yes I think it is necessary. but i don't think has to be strictly heavier weight, could be more reps with same weight, shorter rest between sets etc, anything that makes the muscle work harder. but logically, it stands to reason that if you just keep working the muscle to the same degree it has no reason to get any bigger to complete the same task.
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I used to think that it was absolutely necessary. I've now come to the realization that genetics, nutrition, rest, supplementation, and consistency are way more important. I liked better when I thought that having the perfect training plan and session was the most important component.
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No, you can gain with age. With carbs. With drugs. By reps. By technique. By starting working out after a layoff.
Not a requirement.
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all good posts here ,,,all the factors play roll,,thong maniac said the most important 'genetics'''how big one can get,how lean,how much drugs or little needed to improve if thats your goal,longevity of being able train consistent ,injury free,being able to eat to gain/lose without issues'like digestion or kidney'finding the balance that you can use for life in trying to achieve your personal top physique or strenght goal around lifes other important matters.like work of course ,marriage'kids/a home/family 'mom/dad/siblings healthy relashionships maintained,,,bbing or following a bbing lifestyle requires a lot of selfeshness on ones part ,finding a healthy balance takes effort ,,
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all good posts here ,,,all the factors play roll,,thong maniac said the most important 'genetics'''how big one can get,how lean,how much drugs or little needed to improve if thats your goal,longevity of being able train consistent ,injury free,being able to eat to gain/lose without issues'like digestion or kidney'finding the balance that you can use for life in trying to achieve your personal top physique or strenght goal around lifes other important matters.like work of course ,marriage'kids/a home/family 'mom/dad/siblings healthy relashionships maintained,,,bbing or following a bbing lifestyle requires a lot of selfeshness on ones part ,finding a healthy balance takes effort ,,
Why did you write that like gh15?
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Why did you write that like gh15?
I'm guessing he posts from his phone?
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I'm guessing he posts from his phone?
no computer ;D..gh15 accused ne of using ,,,,, like him.
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Intensity is the key after years of training,not just adding weight to the bar as this will become damned near impossible to do after a while.
Rest less between sets,TUT,Drop-sets,super-sets,running the rack,1+1/2 reps = 1 rep,tri-sets,etc.etc.
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Intensity is the key after years of training,not just adding weight to the bar as this will become damned near impossible to do after a while.
Rest less between sets,TUT,Drop-sets,super-sets,running the rack,1+1/2 reps = 1 rep,tri-sets,etc.etc.
all of this.i do them all in a week or around some heavy days.its a great way to avoid boredom and redundant same type training day in and out'like the training notebook types'that log every rep/weight done after each set ..
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My shoulders get sore if I push the high reps / pump format too long.
Feels like bursitis or something. Won't hurt 'til the next day or so.
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all of this.i do them all in a week or around some heavy days.its a great way to avoid boredom and redundant same type training day in and out'like the training notebook types'that log every rep/weight done after each set ..
I agree,been training like this for years,I still go as heavy as I can during all of it,but I normally keep the reps higher and consistant good form along with a little bit of "controlled cheating" here and there on the last couple of reps.
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I agree,been training like this for years,I still go as heavy as I can during all of it,but I normally keep the reps higher and consistant good form along with a little bit of "controlled cheating" here and there on the last couple of reps.
people think supersetting means lighter weight,,yes you will a bit of strenght on some of it ,,but you can still push close to the peak weight you use on normal 'rest 'sets with a given drop/super/trisets,,and the pumps are amazing..
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"Progressive Overload" is mostly for the smaller guys.
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people think supersetting means lighter weight,,yes you will a bit of strenght on some of it ,,but you can still push close to the peak weight you use on normal 'rest 'sets with a given drop/super/trisets,,and the pumps are amazing..
Yup,you still have to bust ass in spite of the shorter rest periods.
Regular people in the gym, (not the guys here,or most of us anyway),forget that the word workout has the word work in it.
They think they`ll make progress just by showing up or by osmosis or some shit! :)
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"Progressive Overload" is mostly for the smaller guys.
being a smaller guy i'll take it...
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I'm an old guy with limited, average genetics. What I think now is that your body will reflect what you demand of it, and right now that means a LOT more volume is required for me. And my best at this point wouldn't be all that great :'( >:( ;D
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How strong can you get if progressive overload is the key? If you train hard for five years are you going to continue to up the poundages used?
If getting stronger is the key we would all be doing sets of one rep trying to improve our strength. Bodybuilding is the endurance athlete of the strength set. Improving muscular endurance is the main factor. I'm not talking about cardio.
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I get much more hypertrophy out of TUT and different rep speed schemes than pure progressive overload. Of course, at my advanced age, I am risk-averse to large weights, so I haven't done a real progressive scheme in years.
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How strong can you get if progressive overload is the key? If you train hard for five years are you going to continue to up the poundages used?
If getting stronger is the key we would all be doing sets of one rep trying to improve our strength. Bodybuilding is the endurance athlete of the strength set. Improving muscular endurance is the main factor. I'm not talking about cardio.
this
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How strong can you get if progressive overload is the key? If you train hard for five years are you going to continue to up the poundages used?
If getting stronger is the key we would all be doing sets of one rep trying to improve our strength. Bodybuilding is the endurance athlete of the strength set. Improving muscular endurance is the main factor. I'm not talking about cardio.
Think a lot of people in this thread are misunderstanding the meaning of progressive overload. it doesn't simply meaning keep upping the weight. it means progressively overloading the amount of stress put on the muscle, which can be done in a number of ways other than just upping weight.
sure after a certain time most people come to a point where they hit their maximum potential and find it very difficult to increase the intensity of their workouts any further, but at that point they also stop making any further gains and either just maintain or regress.
so the answer to the OP question is yes, progressive overload is required to keep making gains. if you keep doing the same workout with same weights/reps/rest times you will at best maintain, you will not make any further strength/mass gains without adding further stress to muscle.
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progressive overload until you get to a point where you are lifting heavy enough (which is relative to the individual).
after that point it is all voodoo
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Genetics.....its that simple
The longer i work out the more i realize all these rep schemes, overloads, whatever...all bullshit.
Your body responds to simple weight lifting, or it doesnt...when it doesnt, then people start racking their brain with schemes and crazy things. It never works. Thats where trainers come in with theories and supplements and try to capitalize on people who cant make gainsq
QFT
wish someone told me this 20 years ago before I destroyed my body trying to get bigger... never worked no matter the workout, the food, the supplements or even the AAS... never figured there was such a thing as a non-responder until after 20 years I realized I never responded to shit...
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I've seen some really weak jacked guys and I've seen some really strong skinny guys. So it's always confusing hearing the progressive overload is required to gain mass.
Yes. Otherwise you could gain muscle benching the bar forever.
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yes I think it is necessary. but i don't think has to be strictly heavier weight, could be more reps with same weight, shorter rest between sets etc, anything that makes the muscle work harder. but logically, it stands to reason that if you just keep working the muscle to the same degree it has no reason to get any bigger to complete the same task.
I agree with you and Kohl. I gained better since dropping notion of "progressive overload" (constant weight/rep increase) and now I do volume with good weight to a sick extent where I do 60-80 set workouts with medium to heavy weights. Rest is minimal, supersets/triple sets are nonstop. Strength training is there for exercises I feel good with (did 245kg x 6 hex bar dl for 3 sets other night) but mostly switch between 2/3 exercises medium weight no break - no injuries, more gains and suits my impatient personality.
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To make progress something with your training has to progress. If we are talking training induced gains.
Many people often say this or that program is now giving them great gains, even after already having trained for 20 years. The reality is often that jack shit is happening or they are simply regaining size they already had at some earlier time. Most of the time all of us are standing still, losing or regaining after having lost muscle.
Big change happens when there is a big change in stimulus, whether training, food or drugs. These things can only be increased so much before you stand still and have nowhere further to go.
Say if Phil Heath says he's doing a new training program, for example lowering load and increasing volume and "intensity" instead and is making great gains, and has come to the realization that load on the bar doesn't matter. It wouldn't be true as he hasn't made any real gains for years. But you hear things like this from pros often.
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i agree with wes as ive gotten older, i care less and less about the amount of weight i use.
its all about intensity , supersetting now and controlling the weight and getting a pump.
in my 20's i was obsessed with my strength and going up in weight and reps every workout.
cardio and diet keeps me lean, i doubt i will ever go back to training super heavy again .what is funny is i see alot of guys at my gym who look like
utter shit, all they do is lift every day and do zero cardio.
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i agree with wes as ive gotten older, i care less and less about the amount of weight i use.
its all about intensity , supersetting now and controlling the weight and getting a pump.
in my 20's i was obsessed with my strength and going up in weight and reps every workout.
cardio and diet keeps me lean, i doubt i will ever go back to training super heavy again .what is funny is i see alot of guys at my gym who look like
utter shit, all they do is lift every day and do zero cardio.
Are you now more muscular than you ever were at any point in your life?
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To make progress something with your training has to progress. If we are talking training induced gains.
Many people often say this or that program is now giving them great gains, even after already having trained for 20 years. The reality is often that jack shit is happening or they are simply regaining size they already had at some earlier time. Most of the time all of us are standing still, losing or regaining after having lost muscle.
Big change happens when there is a big change in stimulus, whether training, food or drugs. These things can only be increased so much before you stand still and have nowhere further to go.
Say if Phil Heath says he's doing a new training program, for example lowering load and increasing volume and "intensity" instead and is making great gains, and has come to the realization that load on the bar doesn't matter. It wouldn't be true as he hasn't made any real gains for years. But you hear things like this from pros often.
I ate same food, took same "supps", trained same way for half a year without gains then randomly gained 2kg muscle. In past 2 years I have gained, give or take, 5-6kg muscle. It has been random, unrelated to food and generally unrelated to cycle, and largely 1-2kg in a short timeframe and then again I am stuck with 6 months of stagnation.
Don't ask me to explain it cos I had tried upping calories before and I gained fat, I rested more I got bored. It just happened with other variables being the same.
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I ate same food, took same "supps", trained same way for half a year without gains then randomly gained 2kg muscle. In past 2 years I have gained, give or take, 5-6kg muscle. It has been random, unrelated to food and generally unrelated to cycle, and largely 1-2kg in a short timeframe and then again I am stuck with 6 months of stagnation.
Don't ask me to explain it cos I had tried upping calories before and I gained fat, I rested more I got bored. It just happened with other variables being the same.
Bunk gear.
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Bunk gear.
Lol. Same juice. Plateaus happen.
Plus, i dont overdo juice. Never will. I have a set limit when on and have gained what i can and accept it.
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No
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Bunk gear.
You also have to take into account that since March/April my gf has been hospitalised 4 times with bad illness, that means 4 weeks where I spent 5/6 hours travelling and more staying beside her in hospital not to mention the stress involved. You think you could gain with that going on...lest care about gains? I went to the gym to relieve stress those times but on 3 hours sleep and spending my days making food for her, visiting her and doing my own work/study you think you could make gains?
Fuck off with bunk gear.
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You also have to take into account that since March/April my gf has been hospitalised 4 times with bad illness, that means 4 weeks where I spent 5/6 hours travelling and more staying beside her in hospital not to mention the stress involved. You think you could gain with that going on...lest care about gains? I went to the gym to relieve stress those times but on 3 hours sleep and spending my days making food for her, visiting her and doing my own work/study you think you could make gains?
Fuck off with bunk gear.
hope she's well,,good dude right here...
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You also have to take into account that since March/April my gf has been hospitalised 4 times with bad illness, that means 4 weeks where I spent 5/6 hours travelling and more staying beside her in hospital not to mention the stress involved. You think you could gain with that going on...lest care about gains? I went to the gym to relieve stress those times but on 3 hours sleep and spending my days making food for her, visiting her and doing my own work/study you think you could make gains?
Fuck off with bunk gear.
(https://secure.static.tumblr.com/8829960cf830f14f3648ada6895484c1/qreg379/92Cns5ylr/tumblr_static_filename_640_v2.jpg)
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You also have to take into account that since March/April my gf has been hospitalised 4 times with bad illness, that means 4 weeks where I spent 5/6 hours travelling and more staying beside her in hospital not to mention the stress involved. You think you could gain with that going on...lest care about gains? I went to the gym to relieve stress those times but on 3 hours sleep and spending my days making food for her, visiting her and doing my own work/study you think you could make gains?
Fuck off with bunk gear.
Sorry about your girlfriend. I will try to remember to walk on eggshells around you and that you don't appreciate jokes.
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hope she's well,,good dude right here...
What grates me is she had surgery scheduled for June... postponed cos surgeuon took holiday (so why schedule it then?). Then September surgery... cancelled... no reason given. Now November. When she fell ill 2 weeks ago I couldn't bare the ordeal of her in A&E again (non stop tests til a consultant appears 5 days later) so I medicated her and called a consultant I know and alleviated pain... then guess what... she is 1/100 with allergic reaction to medication.
She has rash now and itch and, not to be a dick but I titty fucked her and said it was to help alleviate itch. I am a human after all ;D
@AJ I was more pissed you'd think I took fake juice tbh ;) Sorry if tetchy asshole there.
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hey van , i am more leaner now , than i was before , i do a ton of cardio and watch what i eat more closely
this is coming from a guy who fucking hated cardio and refused to do it m when i was in my 20's back then i could low carb do weights and get lean
but as i have gotten older than dosnt work anymore, but my priorities are different now, i dont care if i am the biggest guy in the gym. when i was in my 20's
i wanted to be the biggest and strongest, but as i have gotten older i know that will never happen, there will always be someone bigger stronger, and better genetics
i would rather be lean and look good . and enjoy my weight workouts, than be obsessed with constantly getting bigger and stronger .
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To make progress something with your training has to progress. If we are talking training induced gains.
Many people often say this or that program is now giving them great gains, even after already having trained for 20 years. The reality is often that jack shit is happening or they are simply regaining size they already had at some earlier time. Most of the time all of us are standing still, losing or regaining after having lost muscle.
Big change happens when there is a big change in stimulus, whether training, food or drugs. These things can only be increased so much before you stand still and have nowhere further to go.
Say if Phil Heath says he's doing a new training program, for example lowering load and increasing volume and "intensity" instead and is making great gains, and has come to the realization that load on the bar doesn't matter. It wouldn't be true as he hasn't made any real gains for years. But you hear things like this from pros often.
Exactly... I keep saying this over and over and the same morons claim to still be making gains after 20yrs etc etc..
You hit the nail on the head, your 'gaining' muscle you've lost, your improving body composition, unless you've been training utterly wrong for 20yrs and eating like an anorexic, only more drugs will allow you to gain anything, and even then, youl max out on steroids, move onto slin/gh and youl max out on them too
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Like lifting weights is rocket science. :D