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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Jizmo on October 13, 2015, 01:44:24 PM
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Any experiences with this stuff? MK677 / ibutamoren
pep sites usually sell it as SARM but its an oral GHRH/GHRP mixture kinda thing with a 24 hour half life basically.
the stuff has been all the rave on promuscle for quite a while, but since basically every second guy over there is a rep for some company and also on tons of other shit you cant really trust some posts.
i mean when youre on 3g of AAS, GH and slin your gains most likely dont come from a fucking low dose peptide you just added into your stack even though they like to make it sound that way lol
effective dosage for ibutamoren is 10-50mg (however even 10mg already seems to give about 80% of the benefits as shown in studies)
it basically increases natural GH pulsation... increases baseline levels, duration of peaks and peak highs... seems to be kinda similar to CJC DAC (i have experience with that)...
studies show an increase of both GH and IGF by 50-100% (dose dependant, however efficiency levels off quickly the higher you dose)
no desensitization over time either.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9238854
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9467534
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1359/jbmr.1999.14.7.1182/full
ill see if i can get my hands on it and hit it for a couple weeks, if people are interested ill log it here
might be a good addition for some moderate IGF and GH boost (people claim it equals 4iu GH but ive heard these claims for GHRP/GHRH stack too and in reality it just doesnt hold truth). i will only use 10mg too because 50mg is obviously 5x as expensive but only 1.5x as effective and also causes increases in fasting glucose/insulin (=insulin resistance), which 10mg doesnt.
i dont expect huge results, however if it is anything remotely close to CJC DAC (for a fraction of the price) AND if theres synergy with AAS/slin (which i expect) then it might be a worthy addition.
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Any experiences with this stuff? MK677 / ibutamoren
pep sites usually sell it as SARM but its an oral GHRH/GHRP mixture kinda thing with a 24 hour half life basically.
the stuff has been all the rave on promuscle for quite a while, but since basically every second guy over there is a rep for some company and also on tons of other shit you cant really trust some posts.
i mean when youre on 3g of AAS, GH and slin your gains most likely dont come from a fucking low dose peptide you just added into your stack even though they like to make it sound that way lol
effective dosage for ibutamoren is 10-50mg (however even 10mg already seems to give about 80% of the benefits as shown in studies)
it basically increases natural GH pulsation... increases baseline levels, duration of peaks and peak highs... seems to be kinda similar to CJC DAC (i have experience with that)...
studies show an increase of both GH and IGF by 50-100% (dose dependant, however efficiency levels off quickly the higher you dose)
no desensitization over time either.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9238854
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9467534
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1359/jbmr.1999.14.7.1182/full
ill see if i can get my hands on it and hit it for a couple weeks, if people are interested ill log it here
might be a good addition for some moderate IGF and GH boost (people claim it equals 4iu GH but ive heard these claims for GHRP/GHRH stack too and in reality it just doesnt hold truth). i will only use 10mg too because 50mg is obviously 5x as expensive but only 1.5x as effective and also causes increases in fasting glucose/insulin (=insulin resistance), which 10mg doesnt.
i dont expect huge results, however if it is anything remotely close to CJC DAC (for a fraction of the price) AND if theres synergy with AAS/slin (which i expect) then it might be a worthy addition.
Here's my before and after with MK-677.
Before: 3/26/2015
IFG-1 = 104 ng/ml (67-205 reference range)
GH = 1.4 ng/ml (0-10 reference range)
After: 7/16/2015
IFG-1 = 153 ng/ml (67-205 reference range)
GH = 5.3 ng/ml (0-10 reference range)
This was at about 25mg/day before bed. I'm 48yo, so that may account for the less than dramatic numbers. However, I've read some bros getting into the 2-300 range, but I'm sure they're much younger than me. I have yet to run GH or peps, so I had nothing to compare it to other than what others report side effect wise when running GH. I ran it for about 4 months. I got most of the sides others report when running MK-677: initial bloat, weight gain and lethargy for about 6 weeks, numb limbs, deep sleep, vivid dreams, big appetite, crazy nail growth, and great pumps. I don't know if I got any substantial fat loss off of it, as the water I held would have blurred any noticeable changes. For $50.00/month, I could run this year round, but it felt like more of a novelty, and I'm not sure if there's any long term negative side effects. You should probably run it for at least 2 months for the best assessment, as it will probably take at least 4 weeks before you start dumping the water retention.
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honestly fellas, do these peptides and such really work?? Ive never even thought about trying one. are they even worth it?? I figured they were all bs from day one, lol, so I also never bothered to do any research. but I always see threads claiming results, which most likely seem legit. If you can afford real gh, are these peps even necessary tho?? im talking the growth hormone related type peps.
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thanks for posting the results dexitrim
this is in line with what i expected, funny thing is it seems to elevate GH numbers constantly 24/7. most people seem to get blood test come pretty high on GH numbers, however igf doesnt change that much (however a 50% increase could still give nice results when coupled with tren/aas and slin)...
@tatoo i ran a lot of the GHRP/GHRH combo about 2 years ago, spend much more than i should have on that and the results were not worth the cost.
however i have to say that if CJC with DAC was cheaper here i would run that again. at 4mg a week the results were definintely impressive, however that makes a good 200 bucks a month and for that price you could run GH at a low dose already.
if i was in the US where you can run 5-10mg DAC for the same cash id run it again
for me the bang/buck winner are AAS and slin, but im always looking into stuff that increases IGF/GH levels, to attack from the third and missing angle too (aas, gh, slin)
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I have used it twice, each time 8 weeks at 25mg and 30mg ED at night.
First thing i see from it is increased hunger and water retention. Both are pretty bad i have to say.
Those effects disapear quite fast after maybe two/three weeks. It seems like the body gets used to it pretty quick. I think the best way to use it is something like 5 days a week but this is my personnal broscience.
Physique wise only thing i saw is increased fullness from the water. I hardly see how anyone can lose fat on this considering how hungry it makes you. Sleep is better too but nothing that a good ZMA supplement cant do...
Btw my second run was with huperzine A and i felt it made the MK677 more effective.
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I have used it twice, each time 8 weeks at 25mg and 30mg ED at night.
First thing i see from it is increased hunger and water retention. Both are pretty bad i have to say.
Those effects disapear quite fast after maybe two/three weeks. It seems like the body gets used to it pretty quick. I think the best way to use it is something like 5 days a week but this is my personnal broscience.
Physique wise only thing i saw is increased fullness from the water. I hardly see how anyone can lose fat on this considering how hungry it makes you. Sleep is better too but nothing that a good ZMA supplement cant do...
Btw my second run was with huperzine A and i felt it made the MK677 more effective.
Zma? Seriously? It's an admitted fake product that was used to hide the sales of designer steroids.
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Great results have been recorded as far as bulking....VERY UNDERWHELMING FATLOSS....Now i might need to say this again because people figure with the higher GH levels and higher IGF output that they will experience more fat loss...Not true...Very good to fill out the forearms and weak genetic points due to how it helps stimulate the tougher fascia's and gets your hormones to a point where you can go past your genetic weak points...Will hold some water and gives great pumps and it's different than a tren pump or a test pump....It's just different...It's not like the feeling the pump of inside the muscle with tren...Or the feeling of a great pump and more blood volume due to higher levels of test...It's different....It's also not faked as much as people would think...It's readily available from MANY sources...
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yes, bulking is my intended purpose... id rather eat a couple more 100 calories and gain additional muscle and less fat as opposed to just losing a few more grams of fat by using GH / peps on a cut. simply not worth the price. i also use lower dosages of AAS when im cutting because of that (until i drop down to really low bodyfat levels or use a ton of t3)
imo GH is a waste of time when youre cutting... unless getting down to REALLY low levels (contest prep). then it might be worth it. but rather for the cosmetic effects...
if you ask me - the miniscule difference it makes in holding more muscle or losing more fat can be achieved with AAS too.
in my opinion the main use of GH is not fat LOSS.
its effective at preventing fat GAIN though
i also think that the effect of GH on actual fat loss is pretty independent of calories. it liberates bodyfat to be used as FFAs in the blood whenever you use it. however these FFAs have to be burned or youll just store them again.
so using it fasted would be a must to reap direct fat loss benefits, no matter if youre cutting or bulking...
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yes, bulking is my intended purpose... id rather eat a couple more 100 calories and gain additional muscle and less fat as opposed to just losing a few more grams of fat by using GH / peps on a cut. simply not worth the price. i also use lower dosages of AAS when im cutting because of that (until i drop down to really low bodyfat levels or use a ton of t3)
imo GH is a waste of time when youre cutting... unless getting down to REALLY low levels (contest prep). then it might be worth it. but rather for the cosmetic effects...
if you ask me - the miniscule difference it makes in holding more muscle or losing more fat can be achieved with AAS too.
in my opinion the main use of GH is not fat LOSS.
its effective at preventing fat GAIN though
i also think that the effect of GH on actual fat loss is pretty independent of calories. it liberates bodyfat to be used as FFAs in the blood whenever you use it. however these FFAs have to be burned or youll just store them again.
so using it fasted would be a must to reap direct fat loss benefits, no matter if youre cutting or bulking...
The thing about GH is that it allows you to get bigger than you would ever be able to do with just AAS because like it said it stimulates the harder fascia to grow...So weak body parts are brought up...As you know, with certain drugs in our cocktail like tren we are able to build some size and mould into a show in a fair caloric deficit...So GH during prep at about 18 weeks out is a great thing...It ensures that when you get it out of your system at let's say 6 weeks that once you dry out you will be showing that new tissue that you've built that you would have never been able to have if you just cut with AAS many weeks out...The prep is the WHOLE PREP...It's important...When i competed everyday from the start of my prep was very important...I liked to do things slower to avoid losing more size...>Everything was bodybuilding from that point on....This is what you have to think about...The AAS and GH allow you to spare muscle and be in a bigger deficit than a natural..But just like a natural you will benefit more if you start prepping later out...
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im interested in the fascia thing. this is also how SEO is supposed to work, right? (in addition to scarring and collagen formation, but thats another story)
do you think the benefit comes solely from the water retention from the GH and increased pumps which cause the fascia to stretch and loosen?
or does GH have a direct effect on fascia tissue, making it more flexible ? since GH also has effects on collagen synthesis and joint/bone health id assume there should be direct effects on the fascia too?!
theres no doubt that GH gives a certain pop to the delts for example that you basically cant get without it, or you have to be MUCH lower in bodyfat to have the same visual effects that you get from GH... but youll be smaller then.
you can run tons of AAS for example but GH just gives a unique look (every fitness model has it and its not simply because of low BF levels or high androgens)
i noticed that when i ran peptides, especially cjc dac. started extremely lean and the visual effects were drastic. its a unique look that makes you look much more developed than you actually are... that shrink wrapped skin around the muscle kind of look...
i think this is especially visible in the delts and also biceps, because fascia is probably very tight there. at least i noticed the difference the most in my delts and arms. plus my waist seemed to just get sucked in.
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im interested in the fascia thing. this is also how SEO is supposed to work, right? (in addition to scarring and collagen formation, but thats another story)
do you think the benefit comes solely from the water retention from the GH and increased pumps which cause the fascia to stretch and loosen?
or does GH have a direct effect on fascia tissue, making it more flexible ? since GH also has effects on collagen synthesis and joint/bone health id assume there should be direct effects on the fascia too?!
I'm saying it's able to cause the harder fascias to grow...Like say your arms are a weak point...Don't get that big on AAS..Well now with GH there is cell hyperplasia and now you have more muscle cells that will be stretched by the AAS and shuttled in nutrients by the insulin...This is why they all work well synergistically together...I am using the term fascia too loosely i see lol i couldn't answer that for you...This is why an 18 year old has spider veins on his arms because he has enough natural GH to handle his 1,200 ng/dl of test...It's a look you don't need GH for once you ge ton AAS....yes 1iu isn't much...But it's much more than 0.2iu and very noticeable when you only use AAS and no GH...Much higher ceiling of test before you bloat...this is why 50 year olds with good test levels who lift still have that layer of fat on their stomach...Their natural GH is nada...With higher IGF you can eat pizzas and you will just get more vascular, leaner and muscular...Igf is the single most important thing in bodybuilding...Makes the skin look amazing as well..
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damn, i just edited my above post, you answered too quickly lol
guess ill do some broscientific research on that. i dont really know that much about fascia per se, except for the fact that its supposed to be one of the most limiting factors regarding muscle growth and also genetic shape
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damn, i just edited my above post, you answered too quickly lol
guess ill do some broscientific research on that. i dont really know that much about fascia per se, except for the fact that its supposed to be one of the most limiting factors regarding muscle growth and also genetic shape
I edited mine too bro lol hold on i'll check yours....Well yes biceps, shoulders you will notice..You will notice much more pump get into the shoulders...When you're natural and a younger guy you can get a LITTLE blood in there...But soon goes away after....With AAS yes it gets better...But with GH it's painful! With high IGF it's painful! It's amazing...Don't forget about the forearms! The back of the forearms will be very pronounced in what it does to the skin, shine of the skin and the veins...I actually prefer this look than the 6% dry look...The volumized 8% look with gh is what i prefer all day that is shrink wrapped
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I tried the mk677 for about a week. My eyes started to get that puffy look,double chin,and my waist looked like shit. I said fuck this and stopped. People mistake you for a fat person with all that water retention. Next time I have to be leaner before I start it.
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I edited mine too bro lol hold on i'll check yours....Well yes biceps, shoulders you will notice..You will notice much more pump get into the shoulders...When you're natural and a younger guy you can get a LITTLE blood in there...But soon goes away after....With AAS yes it gets better...But with GH it's painful! With high IGF it's painful! It's amazing...Don't forget about the forearms! The back of the forearms will be very pronounced in what it does to the skin, shine of the skin and the veins...I actually prefer this look than the 6% dry look...The volumized 8% look with gh is what i prefer all day that is shrink wrapped
yeah... best thing i had ever done was cutting down to completely shredded (i really didnt care about muscle loss at all, only goal was to get shredded)
then i hopped on high doses AAS and peptides (cjc DAC) and blew up lean from scratch...
best i ever looked... and ive been doing it this way ever since. always cut down to very low bodyfat levels until i start looking stringy
then add/increase everything, AAS, slin, calories, workout volume etc
the first 2-3 weeks i always look my best ever, when your muscles just suck up every gram of glycogen and water and before the water starts going into the "bad" places too... with higher GH levels (cjc dac) this effect was even much more pronounced and this condition also lasted longer so im hoping MK677 can kinda replicate that.
I tried the mk677 for about a week. My eyes started to get that puffy look,double chin,and my waist looked like shit. I said fuck this and stopped. People mistake you for a fat person with all that water retention. Next time I have to be leaner before I start it.
ill just use 10mg, people claim 25mg and more gives them insane appetite and bloat... dont need more appetite, its already insane as it is on tren.
im not too worried about bloat, however im prone to get moonfaced on high test (independent of AI dosage).
i just stay lean and keep bulk blasts at <12 weeks so that this shit cant catch up too much, however after a couple weeks its inevitable
maybe slightly higher GH levels will actually keep test bloat down somewhat.
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Moonface keeps me holding back from many things. (fuckin moonface i hate it)[
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my last GF wouldnt stop crying about my "hamster face" whenever i was bulking
that was actually one of the main reasons we broke up lol (and because [insert random "roids are bad mhkay" scaremongering here])
i personally dont give a fuck
my face looks 10x more handsome when im cutting BUT i still feel much more comfortable when im bulking and pumped to fuck and back all day.
who the fuck cares if my face looks like im 30% bodyfat as long as my body doesnst lol
makes a nice surprise when you first get naked infront of a chick :D
whatever moonface...
fking females care so much about shit
she couldve just put a paperbag on my head when we fucked idgaf
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my last GF wouldnt stop crying about my "hamster face" whenever i was bulking
that was actually one of the main reasons we broke up lol (and because [insert random "roids are bad mhkay" scaremongering here])
i personally dont give a fuck
my face looks 10x more handsome when im cutting BUT i still feel much more comfortable when im bulking and pumped to fuck and back all day.
who the fuck cares if my face looks like im 30% bodyfat as long as my body doesnst lol
makes a nice surprise when you first get naked infront of a chick :D
whatever moonface...
fking females care so much about shit
she couldve just put a paperbag on my head when we fucked idgaf
maybe you should have beaten her more
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I like this stuff, got very strong which seems weird. Along with 160mg of cypionate as HRT I am as strong as if I was full cycle. As stated lots of water retention, serious pumps, lethargy, increased appetite. I have previously tried the various peptides that did not do jack shit. This stuff is different. Would be tough to diet on with the appetite so i have no opinion on fat loss as I'm eating a surplus of calories.
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my last GF wouldnt stop crying about my "hamster face" whenever i was bulking
that was actually one of the main reasons we broke up lol (and because [insert random "roids are bad mhkay" scaremongering here])
i personally dont give a fuck
my face looks 10x more handsome when im cutting BUT i still feel much more comfortable when im bulking and pumped to fuck and back all day.
who the fuck cares if my face looks like im 30% bodyfat as long as my body doesnst lol
makes a nice surprise when you first get naked infront of a chick :D
whatever moonface...
fking females care so much about shit
she couldve just put a paperbag on my head when we fucked idgaf
You serious man she gave you shit about your face. What did she use to say to you?
When I first started I always did test only I would be bloated in the face so bad. God I see pics I looked like shit.
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Bulking beard. The lumberjack look of peace.
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You serious man she gave you shit about your face. What did she use to say to you?
When I first started I always did test only I would be bloated in the face so bad. God I see pics I looked like shit.
she said my face and body blow up so much and she doesnt find that attractive and used to joke about my hamster cheeks
when i first met her i was actually bulking hard and heavier than i had ever been before lol so i didnt understand shit
cut down 40lbs easily and bulked that on again 2 or 3 times
she also claimed she felt like she was talking to a wall not because of lacking intellect, but because "im built like one" lol.
she weighted less than half of me so in reality she was probably just scared that i would crush her during sex
or drown her. tren sweats :D
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Hey jizmo how did u run the cjc dac? Also did it give u the shits post injection?
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Hey jizmo how did u run the cjc dac? Also did it give u the shits post injection?
read up on CJC DAC... youre talking about GHRH/GHRP combo... cjc dac is much differnet. long half life
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have you tried it yet? I wonder if this shit works
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have you tried it yet? I wonder if this shit works
cjc dac does work, but its only noticable at 4mg+ a week imo, which is way too expensive if youre not in the US where you can get the shit cheap
i made the thread 2 days ago so obviously havent tried MK yet :D
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Have you ever done dnp? Off topic but whatever
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yes, hell on earth and you look like complete garbage on it
worse than high dose t3
also absolutely zero energy on the shit, feel like markus rühl after walking up a flight of stairs
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I've been clean a while, something like this sounds very attractive at the moment... Might be worth looking into.
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read up on CJC DAC... youre talking about GHRH/GHRP combo... cjc dac is much differnet. long half life
Oops I meant to ask did u do all 4mg subQ once weekly post workout? Wanted to know your
Protocol for cjc dac? I tried it at 5mg post workout subQ on mon/thur with great results.. Just wanted to see how you utilized it
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Oops I meant to ask did u do all 4mg subQ once weekly post workout? Wanted to know your
Protocol for cjc dac? I tried it at 5mg post workout subQ on mon/thur with great results.. Just wanted to see how you utilized it
doesnt matter at all when you pin it...i think i pinned 2mg twice a week pre bed. it basically gives no instant effects, just a very small pulse right after injection. the true effects are longer lasting (7 day half life). more than 2mg can feel unfortable though
i also used huperzine A daily for further somatostatin inhibition (which ill do too when on MK677)
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alright, took first dose today. 200mcg huperzine A a day too.
ill run about 12mg a day for the next xx weeks, depending on how i like it.
first effect was being hungry as fuck and very sleepy about 2 hours after taking the first dose, even though i had just eaten with it.
it also takes like ass. like leucine powder, just 100x more intense, disgusting.
i put it under my tongue and hold it since thats supposed to increase absorption vs swallowing it...
the things you do...
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alright, took first dose today. 200mcg huperzine A a day too.
ill run about 12mg a day for the next xx weeks, depending on how i like it.
first effect was being hungry as fuck and very sleepy about 2 hours after taking the first dose, even though i had just eaten with it.
it also takes like ass. like leucine powder, just 100x more intense, disgusting.
i put it under my tongue and hold it since thats supposed to increase absorption vs swallowing it...
the things you do...
It really knocks you out if you take it before bed, which is how I prefer to take it. Great sleep. I understand it causes pulses throughout the day, though. For about the first 4 weeks, I would get real lethargic and sleepy in the afternoons.
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It really knocks you out if you take it before bed, which is how I prefer to take it. Great sleep. I understand it causes pulses throughout the day, though. For about the first 4 weeks, I would get real lethargic and sleepy in the afternoons.
studies show higher increases in igf1 levels if you take it in the morning though, thats why ill try that first... i sleep like a baby (and piss just as often) on a gram of tren, so no need for that anyway ;)
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I've been on it for about a month. I notice improved sleep, and (maybe?) slightly better recovery. I've been taking 25mg/day - I'll probably drop to half that to see if I notice a difference.
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I've been on it for about a month. I notice improved sleep, and (maybe?) slightly better recovery. I've been taking 25mg/day - I'll probably drop to half that to see if I notice a difference.
I just started this back up at 45mg upon waking up....These are 5mg capsule...very very hungry and affects the blood sugar tremendously at this dosage...I ate breakfast and went to the store and i felt like i was gonna pass out still...Bought 5-6 protein bars and just ate them all...Felt a lot better but i was tired throughout the day..The sides are much more pronounced now...I'll be fine ;)
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lmao i got stomach cramps and started sweating profusely yesterday after i mixed the stuff into a liquid for easier dosing... probably spilled a couple mgs and just ate them. might have been too high of a dosage. the hunger afterwards was also bad. i hope this doesnt last all day long lol
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What is the reason for the lethargy with mk677?
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well GH always makes you sleepy. not sure if its GH levels per se or IGF levels.
could also be related to all GHRPs/GHRHs basically being ghrelin derivatives, ghrelin = hunger hormone.
too many variables to tell that exactly id say.
ill just log my experiences here
woke up with one hand numb already today, i rarely get this, but on peps it was really bad sometimes.
no stomach cramps today, took my 10mg as planned in the morning.
got really hungry afterwards as i expected (also huge bowel movement a couple mins after my dosage which im used to from GHRP).
had breakfast about half an hour later
today i started feeling REALLY intense hunger pains about 2.5-3 hours after every meal. usually i can go 4 hours and then my appetite (not hunger) hits, however today i felt physical pain from hunger after just 3 hours. had to rely on chewing gum since i keep calories the same and right now im eating every 4 hours and cant stand having smaller meals.
and this is still on a small dosage of sibutramine (since im on a good dose of tren and cant stick to my diet for shit on tren without sibutramine, id be a fat bloated mess within 2 weeks otherwise).
sweating seemed a bit more pronounced throughout the day and during my workout, could be coincidental though.
will update here with anything i notice
so far this could be a godsend for hardgainers or anyone who has problems eating...it seems to make me permahungry just like a good dose of CJC DAC used to do, but i hope this will subside over time.. i never had and never will have any issues getting in enough food anyway
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When you sleep you release the majority of your growth hormone when yours is elevated you'll be tired even though it's pulsing through the day it's the same with lethargy from real growth
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well GH always makes you sleepy. not sure if its GH levels per se or IGF levels.
could also be related to all GHRPs/GHRHs basically being ghrelin derivatives, ghrelin = hunger hormone.
too many variables to tell that exactly id say.
ill just log my experiences here
woke up with one hand numb already today, i rarely get this, but on peps it was really bad sometimes.
no stomach cramps today, took my 10mg as planned in the morning.
got really hungry afterwards as i expected (also huge bowel movement a couple mins after my dosage which im used to from GHRP).
had breakfast about half an hour later
today i started feeling REALLY intense hunger pains about 2.5-3 hours after every meal. usually i can go 4 hours and then my appetite (not hunger) hits, however today i felt physical pain from hunger after just 3 hours. had to rely on chewing gum since i keep calories the same and right now im eating every 4 hours and cant stand having smaller meals.
and this is still on a small dosage of sibutramine (since im on a good dose of tren and cant stick to my diet for shit on tren without sibutramine, id be a fat bloated mess within 2 weeks otherwise).
sweating seemed a bit more pronounced throughout the day and during my workout, could be coincidental though.
will update here with anything i notice
so far this could be a godsend for hardgainers or anyone who has problems eating...it seems to make me permahungry just like a good dose of CJC DAC used to do, but i hope this will subside over time.. i never had and never will have any issues getting in enough food anyway
It will go away pretty quickly after about 10 15 days of daily dosing. Expect a lot of water retention especially if you eat a lot ;D
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It will go away pretty quickly after about 10 15 days of daily dosing. Expect a lot of water retention especially if you eat a lot ;D
thats good to know
ill stick to my diet meticulously, no cheats. if i go over my dailies then ill compensate the next day
ive been bulking on my lowest calories ever and ive been gaining like never before actually. its kinda crazy... 4 weeks in and 12 lbs up and im barely eating above maintenance calories. actually im only averaging an additional 500-600 kcals daily compared to when i was cutting (counting in my weekly refeed on the cut).
- and i was losing 2lbs a week back then. now im gaining 3lbs a week on less than additional 4000 weekly kcals.
its strange what adding/increasing compounds+slin, switching supps, increasing training volume and carbs and lowering t3 and cardio can do :o :)
ofc glycogen/water is a big part of it, but simple 1+1 just doesnt apply anymore
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where did you get your raws from jiz?
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where did you get your raws from jiz?
actually privately from some guy i dont know personally
kind of random
only bought a small fairly cheap amount to test it out though, i think with peps its pretty damn easy to tell if theyre legit or shit, so i wasnt too worried
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sooo a little update here... lets say beforehand im bulking and im on test/tren/npp and pre workout slin too.
im running around 12mg of the MK so a very minimal dosage.
im nearly a week in now.
-weight is up 7lbs with zero change in diet. whereas i usually averaged around 3lbs weight gain a week before that (coming straight out of a cut). my weight has been stable for a week before adding in the MK though, so most of that was glycogen and water retention coming back.
was really thirsty the first few days too.
-ofc strength is coming on nicely.
-id say its mostly intramuscular water retention, howevermy midsection looks a bit blurry faster, especially later in the day with a couple meals in. not exactly bloated, but abs are not as deeply carved, start to become little blurry. it actually got better the last 2-3 days so mightve been simply related to how much i was drinking. cotton mouth all day.
-i keep my off day calories extremely low and wake up nice and tight again afterwards, but i never drop weight at all, MK seems to keep you very full
-the much increased hunger has subsided, i feel normal again now.
-i was extremely tired the first 3-4 days, this has subsided aswell. im fine with 8 hours of sleep again and completely rested.
-dreams are a bit more vivid and more sexual (some people say MK killed their libido but it rather seems the opposite to me).
-pumps in the gym are MUCH increased. sometimes to the point of being painful. the MK really increased everything in the pump department. i also get some calf cramps at night here and there, but that could be due to the wicked pump from last leg workout
-my hands are swollen. the area between thumb and index finger especially. i get some CTS at night here and there.
will report back with any further observations.
not sure how this stuff would work on a cut, it would be great to keep you full i guess, but the weight gain from it plus the insane hunger for the first days could be mindfucking
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How's it treating u?
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well, we had a huge halloween party on saturday and i got forced to drink and smoke (usually dont drink, maybe once every 6-8 weeks, but then its all out lol)
lost control over my eating a bit, gained a shitton of water weight. face looked like a pumpkin on sunday (even worse than it wouldve been without the MK).
muscles looked full as fuck though, not as bloated as i wouldve expected (well, except my midsection from all the food obviously). still a pretty good look, but oh god, my face.
the additional water weight is already dropped as of today though. took 4 days of heavy caloric deficit lol
when i started this bulk about 6 weeks ago i told myself that i would start cutting as soon as i went over 200lbs and well, that pushed me right over so on sunday i started cutting.
i like to stay between 180-200lbs for the most part - more and i get uncomfortable, watery and bloated. less and i get too small and stringy.
this bulk ended up shorter than planned lol but slin and MK makes an incredible combo to put on A TON of weight if thats what youre aiming at (powerlifting anyone?)
im a bit disappointed that i slacked with my diet since i perfectly sticked to my proposed macros without a single slip during the last 6 weeks and my look was pretty damn good throughout...
however it will be interesting to see what MK does with regards to fat loss and muscle retention (there are studies on MK completley alleviating protein loss during periods of caloric deficit)
will be kind of interesting to see if MK keeps me full on lower carbs too.
the hunger sides are completely gone, so thats a good thing. hands still swollen, CTS here and there at night.
sleep still good. i do need more sleep on lower calories though. dont feel as fresh and energetic.
nothing else to report as of now.
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I have used Mk677, Gw-501516, CJC-1295 DAC and no DAC, GHRP-2, Ipamorelin, IGF DES, IGF-1 Lr3 (which supposedly was receptor grade god knows what it really is), Tb500, GHK-CU, Melanotan 2, hgh-frag 176-191 these are from the top of my head. Ostarine and Cardarine are orals, the rest injectable peptides.
From my experience, mk (ostarine) is basically a secratologue similar to ghrp6 in terms of hunger but has a constant release, alot more potent, raises your igf baseline by so much, i think more than any other drug. Pumps are insane, energy levels go down to crap, you will look extremely full and pumped, but you will hold enormous amounts of water, walking with a double ballchini from water... I hate it, because it makes me feel like death, the higher you go in dosage, the worse you feel, but the bigger and hungrier and more pumped you get. Start as low as possible and ramp up slowly, it's very potent so don't rush it unless you want to feel sleepy and unenergized as fk all day all night.
I combined it with dac every 3 days i would shoot up half a vial 2.5mg. The mk never managed to reach 50, its brutal man, highest i been to is 30.
Gw is good stuff, but made me sweat tons, idk, its such a weird drug did 30mg ed though lol.
Ghrp2 good pumps but u desensitize fast, you combine with no dac though. 200mcg ghrp2 with no dac 100mcg (most ull need) 3x a day is good, max 4 but ull desensitize faster. For 3x morning shot 30min before breakfast or right before fastes cardio, prewo for fat loss post for anabolism, and another with the last meal before bed. Give 4 hours between your shots, 3mininmum.
Ipam you will feel less but you can do boom dosages, 500mcg is the start boom dosage. I like it more, ALOT less lethargy. Gives you multiple small pulses throughout 4-6hours. One boom dose upon waking and before bed is perfect, you can add ghrp2 pre or post or ipam. Combine all your shots of ghrps with no dac at 100mcg tops.
Tb meh rather gh.
Mt2 makes me crawl to my fridge, including dac. The hypo feeling is disastrous, feel horrible, you can't even move your limbs you cant even use your arms to eat your disgusting sugar. Mt2 works, glorious effects, but seriously peptides make you look like crap and feel exactly like one. Ghk-cu healed my acne scar wounds super fast. Apart of that, store your unmixed peptide vials in the freezer, mixed ones in the fridge, reconstitute everything with bac water (kills bacteria unlike sterile water), dont shake them swirl them, reconstituted vials in a fridge last from 8 days to 28-36 depending on which one. In the freezer up to 4 years if unreconstituted. You can freeze reconstituted preloaded syringes or vials if you want them lasting longer.
Hope this was good advice.
Hex strongest pulse, than comes GHRP6, than ghrp2 and third generation secratologue Ipamorelin which has no sides when injected in terms of hunger etc, but can cause lethargy. Hex don't even use, desensitizes you within a week or 2.
Dac no dac are their own category, dac has a half life of 8 days due to the ester attached to it, no dac has no ester so needs to be injected frequently. If you will use dac might as well use mk with it they work hand in hand.
Oh yea and hgh-frag you need to be fasted 2-3 hours before and after injecting it. Optimally upon waking before fasted cardio 250-500mcg asists in releasing fatty acids and burning more fat. Also good prewo and before bed. 1000mcg a day is the most I'd go.
Enjoy
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I have used Mk677, Gw-501516, CJC-1295 DAC and no DAC, GHRP-2, Ipamorelin, IGF DES, IGF-1 Lr3 (which supposedly was receptor grade god knows what it really is), Tb500, GHK-CU, Melanotan 2, hgh-frag 176-191 these are from the top of my head. Ostarine and Cardarine are orals, the rest injectable peptides.
From my experience, mk (ostarine) is basically a secratologue similar to ghrp6 in terms of hunger but has a constant release, alot more potent, raises your igf baseline by so much, i think more than any other drug. Pumps are insane, energy levels go down to crap, you will look extremely full and pumped, but you will hold enormous amounts of water, walking with a double ballchini from water... I hate it, because it makes me feel like death, the higher you go in dosage, the worse you feel, but the bigger and hungrier and more pumped you get. Start as low as possible and ramp up slowly, it's very potent so don't rush it unless you want to feel sleepy and unenergized as fk all day all night.
I combined it with dac every 3 days i would shoot up half a vial 2.5mg. The mk never managed to reach 50, its brutal man, highest i been to is 30.
Gw is good stuff, but made me sweat tons, idk, its such a weird drug did 30mg ed though lol.
Ghrp2 good pumps but u desensitize fast, you combine with no dac though. 200mcg ghrp2 with no dac 100mcg (most ull need) 3x a day is good, max 4 but ull desensitize faster. For 3x morning shot 30min before breakfast or right before fastes cardio, prewo for fat loss post for anabolism, and another with the last meal before bed. Give 4 hours between your shots, 3mininmum.
Ipam you will feel less but you can do boom dosages, 500mcg is the start boom dosage. I like it more, ALOT less lethargy. Gives you multiple small pulses throughout 4-6hours. One boom dose upon waking and before bed is perfect, you can add ghrp2 pre or post or ipam. Combine all your shots of ghrps with no dac at 100mcg tops.
Tb meh rather gh.
Mt2 makes me crawl to my fridge, including dac. The hypo feeling is disastrous, feel horrible, you can't even move your limbs you cant even use your arms to eat your disgusting sugar. Mt2 works, glorious effects, but seriously peptides make you look like crap and feel exactly like one. Ghk-cu healed my acne scar wounds super fast. Apart of that, store your unmixed peptide vials in the freezer, mixed ones in the fridge, reconstitute everything with bac water (kills bacteria unlike sterile water), dont shake them swirl them, reconstituted vials in a fridge last from 8 days to 28-36 depending on which one. In the freezer up to 4 years if unreconstituted. You can freeze reconstituted preloaded syringes or vials if you want them lasting longer.
Hope this was good advice.
Hex strongest pulse, than comes GHRP6, than ghrp2 and third generation secratologue Ipamorelin which has no sides when injected in terms of hunger etc, but can cause lethargy. Hex don't even use, desensitizes you within a week or 2.
Dac no dac are their own category, dac has a half life of 8 days due to the ester attached to it, no dac has no ester so needs to be injected frequently. If you will use dac might as well use mk with it they work hand in hand.
Oh yea and hgh-frag you need to be fasted 2-3 hours before and after injecting it. Optimally upon waking before fasted cardio 250-500mcg asists in releasing fatty acids and burning more fat. Also good prewo and before bed. 1000mcg a day is the most I'd go.
Enjoy
Very interesting man.
What were your results with MK and CJC DAC together ?
Im interested in IGF1 LR3, do you think its worth it?
Also thinking about doing MK + GHRP2 or ipam for bulking. The weight gain and hunger must be insane.
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You're not going to find legit IGF from any research company, better to save your money and put it toward GH.
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Dac alone is already insane. Makes you crazy hypo after injecting it. You get gastric mobility, feel tired and lethargic as death. Split your dosages in smaller ones if you use 5+ mg per week. Inject it before bed or when you are home at night, unless you wanna be a slug in your room eating boxes of cookies and drinking sugar to feel better lol.
Mk alone, is like ghrp6 throughout the whole day, makes you hungry for delicious food. You will feel disgusting because you will keep eating and eating and eating and you won't be able to control the hunger. With dac, it's on a whole other level. So mk does not need ghrp2 thats too much, unless you really want a huge ass gut forcing down more food when you are already in pain from distention but still feeling hungry. Doesn't even need ipam unless you want to, it's a better option than ghrp2. Mk dac is good, either way, if you hop on either or, just go all the way man, 25-30 mk ed split in two, dont take it one shot it's brutal lethargy, with 5mg dac per week. But unless you do low dose dac 3.5mg or less a week, the water retention and gut won't be bad nor should be the lethargy. For igf lr3 it's my favorite peptide but i honestly feel off about those cheap labs, because i have no idea what might really be giving you this pump, idk what they shove in the vial. But i get the most insane pumps, and distention from igf lol. But it's worth it, adds size, definitely to the arms
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Lilhawk is right, unless you order cheap "igf" and test it out yourself idk if i am allowed to mention where i got mine from but it's where I order everything and everything from them is bomb, but wouldnt order their liquid research chemicals, just peps. For oral mk gw etc i order them raw off another site as well.
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damn, you must shit out money because these dosages are kinda costly lol
i ran DAC for a short time at 4mg a week. was pretty damn good however too expensive for my liking. ran it solo. (with huperzine A, but no ghrp).
never made me hypo. gave me a good headrush after injecting the first couple times. only used 2mg at once though 1-2 a week.
i also tried ghrp2+ghrh combo quite a while ago. THAT made me hungry as fuck and hypo every time after inject. not a good feeling, also leads to overeating and fat gains. the hunger doesnt correspond with the body changes, youll get fat as fuck if you eat according to the appetite induced by GHRPs...
ipamorelin is different, gives no hunger but similar results. also slept much better on it, ghrp2 felt kinda rough.
with DAC i noticed a definite increase in hunger AND appetite. with MK its just hunger. like growling stomach and a bit of pain in the morning until you eat your first meal.
tried igf lr3 once, DES too. i dont think it did anything. i gained maybe 2-3lbs extra but id assume that was just glycogen. no real noticable effects tbh.
not sure yet where i put MK, but DAC was my favorite out of all GHRP/GHRHs so far.
downside: its extremely costly in the dosages that give real results (4mg+ a week) and i would rather invest in more tren instead of running it again.
MK is pretty cheap, we'll see how that works out. remember im only running it at 10-12mg or so a day. thats the absolute minimum dosage, but 25mg and more gives study-proven side effects on insulin sensitivity that i dont want. i might increase to 15-20mg for testing but regarding the studies ive seen 10mg should give a good boost on GH and IGF with pretty much zero sides. and 10mg a day is cheap as fuck.
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Thats one thing about peps i dont like is the hunger. First time i used MK was during my PCT after my first baby test E cycle. I ate like pig trying to compensate the lack of hormones by increasing my cals. I would get randomly hungry at work, get a snicker bar at the machine and eat, eating some 400kcal protein cookies... I actually kept pretty much all my gains (my strengh went down maybe 25%) but MK hunger + high estro from coming off = big fat gains. I went to vacation shortly after and i had like a spare tire of fat around my waist. :-X
Second time i was cruising on test and used clen, also tried to be careful with food. Results were a lot more satisfying (still lots of water tho). It seems the less you eat the better you look on MK.
For a skinny guy with an incredibly fast metabolism those peps are god send tho. Or if you are massive and you need an insane amound of kcal to maintain or up your weight.
I stick to PEG MGF/IGF and the healing stuff like BPC157/TB500.
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What's the price on all of these peps per month? Wouldn't it be cheaper or about equal in price to get some pharm GH?
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lol why would anyone use peps if pharm GH was cheaper ::) lol
MK at 10mg a day costs less than half a buck a day. thats nothing. CJC DAC highly depends on where youre at... in the US you can get big amounts for cheap, so you can run 5mg a week for 150$ or so per month. for 150$ a month you could get 1iu pharm grade GH a day^^
GHRP+GHRH combo is much cheaper than even chinese GH if you use 100mcg of each 3x a day, however not sure how it compares in efficiency.
GH is the one thing i have no experience with since its simply way too expensive for me.
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Cool, I have no idea what peps cost because pharm GH is always what I've used so no need to bother with them, and most research companies are shit. Don't trust anything coming from them. Used Sermorelin once from a pharmacy and it was absolutely worthless. Have a brother and several friends that compete nationally and they don't bother with peptides.... All Serostim.
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How is the MK run going? All in all would it be something you would recommend???? Pleased with results so far??
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had to drop it while cutting
honestly the hunger was too much
couldnt keep my diet straight for 3 days in a row, not even with sibutramine which normally completely kills any desire to eat for me...
on just 10mg MK i was ALWAYS hungry 2 hours after eating a meal, not just hungry but ravenously stomach growling painfully hungry.
IMPOSSIBLE to cut on that shit, even worse than tren for me.
will use it again while bulking though... i could keep hunger under control when bulking but you REALLY have to make sure you can eat every 3 hours, otherwise you will go insane. insane hunger --> insane cravings... really gotta keep diet tight though because the stuff puts a lot of water on you.
if your diet is shit youll like like a bloated mess on the stuff.
honestly it was way too short to really evaluate its strength and effects BUT the lethargy and hunger were WAY stronger than for example CJC DAC or any other peptide combo really at high dosages.
and thats just at the minimal 10mg dosage. no idea how anyone can run 25 or 50mg of this shit without getting fucked in the head from hunger pains... they probably all got fake shit lol
for cutting purposes - fuck MK677.
would recommend the stuff on bulks since its cheap, gives a lot of intramuscular water retention if you keep your diet tight.
lethargy and hunger were bad though, but taking it at night rather than in the morning seemed to alleviate the daytime lethargy.
if you got a problem with getting down enough calories then this is a godsend too.
if you eat like shit youll look like a mess on it though.
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hmm, ya tempting me as I have the appetite of a girl....
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Ran mk 30mg a day and in the end, i wanted to cry in bed, had boxes of cookies and junk next to my head barely able to move and grab them, eating them while crunched up like a donkey in bed, felt so disgusting just farting and eating and bloated as hell. Had a triple chin, extreme water retention, horrible stuff. Just forget peptides, they aren't worth it, seriously just don't waste your time on them, you'll have better quality of life without them, unless you don't mind not realizing that you are a depressed idiot barely able to wake up or walk down the stairs because you are so damn lethargic and fat as a result of their use. This is the easiest way to word it, all peptides are shit, even mt2 makes you feel lile crap and has side effects to it. TB-500 useless used 60 vials in total me AND my friend and we saw no results but hair growth/nail growth and pains came back couple weeks later, stuff can cause cancer anyways, and some TBs from bad sources can make you hypo because they stuff other crap in them. Peptides are cheap, companies would do anything to make their customers believe it works, they blend stuff in them you don't even know about, you start feeling hypo and you are like omg stuff if working, but in reality you aren't even sure if they are suppose to make you hypo because they don't(tb500). You can get clinical grade from Tom's, but why pay so much when you can get GH and it would do all that magic in one injection a day?
Ipam is good, but you will always need to increase your dosage because your gland depletes itself so you feel it less and less, and the more you use, the more lethargic and the more water rentention and the shittier you look and feel.
GHRP2 does the same to a much bigger extent with hunger side effects and gastric mobility.
GHRP6 dont even waste your time with it.
Hex horrible i don't know why anyone would even buy this or make this peptide to start with, they should change its name to Side Effect at any dosage.
Cjc no dac useless alone and you have to use it when you use GHRPs if not waste of time and money. You won't see any results, so GHRH + GHRP.
Mk the mother of death of hunger and lethargy and water rentention (most insane fullness i ever got, pumps, strength gains, endurance and of course double chini).
Dac comes right under mk for death, has a half life of 8 days, wouldn't wish to feel like crap for 8 days. Don't want this stuff ever in me again.
Igf des ans lr3 good stuff to fk around in the gym with ridiculous pumps, tbh they cause a gut and have no idea what they shove in those vials, but definitely not igf, :), and if it is, probably one of the shittiest quality you will ever find.
So to resume all this, you guys tell me i should use pharma growth hormone because generics are shit and we don't know what are in those vials, so i might as well be injecting shit in my body. Well i say the same about peptides but to a much greater extent. I definitely did not feel right putting any of that low quality shit in my body, i have no idea how they make it, with what, what they put in them or what i am really putting in my body. Even from reputable sources I have 0 trust for peptides. Unless you are willing to spend on CLINICAL grade, just like I was told to spend on PHARMA grade. Pharma grade peptides don't exist because they are still being tested and aren't yet ready for human use :)