Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: cephissus on January 01, 2016, 06:47:15 PM
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First off, I'm not trying to "push my position" with this thread -- I don't even have one. I'm genuinely curious about what people think is going on here.
Like many vegan youtubers, this guy:
1. Makes lots of "what I ate today" videos.
2. Eats a high carb, low fat and low protein diet.
3. Exercises daily (endurance training).
As someone who thinks "calories in, calories out" is the best model for understanding weight gain/fat loss, I'm baffled by his results. In short, he did a series of 31 videos chronicling his daily eating/exercising. He eats about 4-8k daily (summaries at end of videos), and does about 1-3 hours of aerobic activity (distance running, mostly).
Even being VERY generous, he's burning MAYBE 2000 cals/day exercising, yet it doesn't look like he's gained any weight throughout the month. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, he's been eating more or less the same way for the past year (at least), and doesn't look to have put on any appreciable amount of weight.
Here's the last three videos (days 29-31):
(7.7k cals)
(6.9k cals)
(6.4k cals)
And the first three (days 1-3):
(4.6k cals)
(4.3 kcals)
(6.1 kcals)
I chose this guy because I think he's a good example of a difficult-to-explain phenomenon. Across the board, these vegan youtubers seem to have normal or even very low bodyfat while consuming tons of food.
To me, a few reasonable possibilities may be:
1. He's young (about 20) and you can eat more when you're young.
2. He's genetically predisposed to handle this diet well.
3. He's lying.
As a counterpoint to 1 and 2 though, take someone like freelee. She looked like shit in her 20s -- I don't think anyone would bring up her DNA just from looking at her. Now, in her mid-thirties she's sickeningly lean on the same sort of diet/exercise regime (supposedly).
Yeah, they could both be scammers (vegan agenda), you can't know much about someone's DNA just by looking at them, etc.
Still, it has me very curious -- maybe there's something to high-carb diets? And if so, why are they so out-of-fashion?
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You don't think someone would lie to advance an agenda?
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Just finished reading this book:http://highsteaks.com/carnivores-creed/the-stone-age-diet-walter-l-voegtlin-1975/
Very interesting!
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You don't think someone would lie to advance an agenda?
I do. But to be honest, the more videos I watch, the less likely it seems. Freelee and DR, yeah I'll always be suspicious of them. But a nobody like drew (the first guy I linked) and many others... the likelihood that they're all lying seems low.
Even vegan gains stays very lean while routinely eating 4k+ calories and easy bbing workouts/light cycling.
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If you are only concern with weight gain/loss then it's all about calories in/calories out. If you are also concerned with body composition and health then it is not so simple. What TA ignores is what happens to those calories once it's "in" your body and the effects it has. 400 calories of protein in your body will have a different effect than 400 calories of sugar.
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endurance athletes burns alot more than 2k daily I Think
but probably not eating that much. youtubers will say and do things for views
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If you are only concern with weight gain/loss the it's all about calories in/calories out. If you are also concerned with body composition and health than it is not so simple. What TA ignores is what happens to those calories once it's "in" your body and the effects it has. 400 calories of protein in your body will have a different effect than 400 calories of sugar.
That's common sense and basic physiology.
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Ceph interesting vids. Yeah I've been vegan/vegetarian for the last 4 months or so and don't notice any weight loss effect, but I have been eating pizza and sugar and chocolate often...I do think it's calories though. The guy in the vids is young, and doing endurance work outs. I abused food much more than him at that age and only put on about 10lbs of fat and I wasn't training much either. I did that for a year. It's all age bro IMO.
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what's with this gay vegan hippie crap lately. sigh.....
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As a relatively new vegan I am eating more carbs and less protein than ever (last two months) while keeping calories relatively stable and I have not gained any fat.
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what's with this gay vegan hippie crap lately. sigh.....
x 2
It's disgracefull, nowonder masculinity is going down the fucking toilet with this fag shit
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The vegans I know consume the least amount of food.
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He's an active 20 year old, probably with a good metabolism too.
Very few of my friends at that age were fat or overweight, our diets were terrible and we drank a lot of beer and other alcohol, but we could get away with it then.
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Ceph interesting vids. Yeah I've been vegan/vegetarian for the last 4 months or so and don't notice any weight loss effect, but I have been eating pizza and sugar and chocolate often...I do think it's calories though. The guy in the vids is young, and doing endurance work outs. I abused food much more than him at that age and only put on about 10lbs of fat and I wasn't training much either. I did that for a year. It's all age bro IMO.
This is where Vegans fail. They think it's all about not eating animal protein when it's really about eating nutrient dense vegetables.
I'm anything but a Vegan but I'm sure I eat more veggies, green leafys in particular, than 90% of these so-called Vegans.
He's an active 20 year old, probably with a good metabolism too.
Very few of my friends at that age were fat or overweight, our diets were terrible and we drank a lot of beer and other alcohol, but we could get away with it then.
Exactly. When you're in your prime years, you can get away with all kinds of shit. When you hit middle age, the bills start showing up.
In this regard, we're just like cars. You can trash a new car pretty good without negative consequences. That doesn't mean that what you're doing is good for the car. 2-3 hours of aerobics a day is unsustainable. Eventually, you'll get sick and/or injured.
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okay if it's age, how about this one? 7 days in a row, 5k+ calories:
guy's in his mid-thirties. according to strava, averages about 2 hrs a day on the bike, 1000 cals. claims to have lived this way for well over a decade.
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This is where Vegans fail. They think it's all about not eating animal protein when it's really about eating nutrient dense vegetables.
I'm anything but a Vegan but I'm sure I eat more veggies, green leafys in particular, than 90% of these so-called Vegans.
Exactly. When you're in your prime years, you can get away with all kinds of shit. When you hit middle age, the bills start showing up.
In this regard, we're just like cars. You can trash a new car pretty good without negative consequences. That doesn't mean that what you're doing is good for the car. 2-3 hours of aerobics a day is unsustainable. Eventually, you'll get sick and/or injured.
The vegans and vegetarians I have known through life tend to be junk food addicts compared to meat eaters especially with these bakeries and restaurants catering to imitating alot of fast food, cake, cookie and chocolate dishes, and alot of tend to eat especially the chicks a ton of pasta
Not saying meat eaters don't eat junk, but the vegans and vegetarians I have known take it to whole knew level and think because they don't eat meat that its ok lol
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I have wondered the same, especially with a guy like Erik the electric. Dude used to be fat when he was a teenager, then anorexic and now eats insane amounts of food and tells people because he cycles everyday and is very active he can get away with eating a ton. What's more surprising is he went from 162-169 (his weight fluctuates a lot) to 156 lbs while eating a shit ton on average and doing eating challenges.
I think some of these guys have eating disorders and purge. Freelee is indeed a strange case. She might be using PEDs. That level of leanness for a woman plus not being young and eating a ton don't really go together.
My conclusion is these vegan youtubers trending right now are no better than the typical fake natties lying left and right and posting their boring eating/lifting days while showing off their material possessions. IMO these vegans/competitive eaters are lying and trying to appear extraordinary by indulging in food orgies lol and managing to stay in great shape and lean. Like their fake natty youtubers, they are just deceivers trying to make an interesting show to earn money.
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You don't think someone would lie to advance an agenda?
People lie to make money? Went did this start happening? ??? ;D
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I have wondered the same, especially with a guy like Erik the electric. Dude used to be fat when he was a teenager, then anorexic and now eats insane amounts of food and tells people because he cycles everyday and is very active he can get away with eating a ton. What's more surprising is he went from 162-169 (his weight fluctuates a lot) to 156 lbs while eating a shit ton on average and doing eating challenges.
I think some of these guys have eating disorders and purge. Freelee is indeed a strange case. She might be using PEDs. That level of leanness for a woman plus not being young and eating a ton don't really go together.
My conclusion is these vegan youtubers trending right now are no better than the typical fake natties lying left and right and posting their boring eating/lifting days while showing off their material possessions. IMO these vegans/competitive eaters are lying and trying to appear extraordinary by indulging in food orgies lol and managing to stay in great shape and lean. Like their fake natty youtubers, they are just deceivers trying to make an interesting show to earn money.
great post, and likely hypothesis. erik's cycling numbers are crazy (check strava). during thanksgiving week he was putting up 3+ hour rides at 300+ average wattage every day. claims to do it all fasted, too!
he gets very blustery when questioned about trt and the like.
freelee is probably the most interesting to me... i wouldnt be at all surprised if durianrider has some secret drug regimen for her. before she met him, she was just another addle-brained raw vegan who looked totally average.
that dude is crafty as fuck, and a genius in his own way. she's his little, vacant-headed puppet. i think he found the perfect meal ticket: fat loss formula + braindead sales vessel + youtube.
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First off, I'm not trying to "push my position" with this thread -- I don't even have one. I'm genuinely curious about what people think is going on here.
Like many vegan youtubers, this guy:
1. Makes lots of "what I ate today" videos.
2. Eats a high carb, low fat and low protein diet.
3. Exercises daily (endurance training).
As someone who thinks "calories in, calories out" is the best model for understanding weight gain/fat loss, I'm baffled by his results. In short, he did a series of 31 videos chronicling his daily eating/exercising. He eats about 4-8k daily (summaries at end of videos), and does about 1-3 hours of aerobic activity (distance running, mostly).
Even being VERY generous, he's burning MAYBE 2000 cals/day exercising, yet it doesn't look like he's gained any weight throughout the month. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, he's been eating more or less the same way for the past year (at least), and doesn't look to have put on any appreciable amount of weight.
Yeah, they could both be scammers (vegan agenda), you can't know much about someone's DNA just by looking at them, etc.
Still, it has me very curious -- maybe there's something to high-carb diets? And if so, why are they so out-of-fashion?
You are not including the calories he is burning when not exercising, which would be considerable considering his elevated metabolism from all the cardio.
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You are not including the calories he is burning when not exercising, which would be considerable considering his elevated metabolism from all the cardio.
how much do you think epoc accounts for? never looked into it, but always assumed very little. maybe ill read up on it next.
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I'd say most of them use PEDs. Anyways, I have also wondered what happens after a guy like Erik the electric does those crazy things like 48000 calories in 48 hours. He gains like 15-20 lbs in one day. The next few days must be miserable and feeling sick as fuck. I think there is some fat gain from that, which he avoids by purging.
I don't get how the fuck he trains or cycles intensively after eating copious amounts of food. It just seems so sense deprived, yet he seems untroubled. Also, I don't buy into what he says that he is in a better mental place than he was during anorexia. I mean, no one in their right minds eats 30000+ calories for fun, because at the end it becomes a punishment. He is probably sick for many days of the month with the way he eats. Add the excessive exercise to counteract the eating. Idk, I just can't fathom him being completely pleased with what he shows on his channel.
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how much do you think epoc accounts for? never looked into it, but always assumed very little. maybe ill read up on it next.
Hard to say exactly, as I am sure it varies a lot from individual to individual. But I found this from the following site : http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-library/exercise-after-burn-0 (http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-library/exercise-after-burn-0)
Give it a read, it has a lot of good useful information on the topic.
EPOC and Cardiovascular Exercise
The Effect of Intensity
Research demonstrates that the intensity of a cardiovascular exercise bout has the greatest impact on EPOC. As exercise intensity increases, the magnitude and duration of EPOC increase.
In a study by Bahr and Sejersted (1991), subjects completed exercise bouts at intensities of 29%, 50% and 75% of VO2max for a period of 80 minutes. The greatest EPOC was reported following the highest exercise intensity (75% VO2max): 30.1 liters (L) of oxygen consumed, or 150.5 calories burned. (Note: Not all studies report actual caloric expenditure, but it is well understood in all exercise physiology and nutrition texts that for every liter of oxygen consumed, approximately 5 calories are burned.) Additionally, the duration of EPOC following the highest- intensity exercise was significantly longer when compared to the lower-intensity bouts (10.5 hours versus 0.3 and 3.3 hours).
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It's very possible to build or maintain a nice muscular physique on a HCLF vegan diet, but don't expect to look like a competetive bodybuilder. I have eaten a vegan diet for a while and not concerned myself with protein at all and I've noticed I'm slightly less bloated and a bit stronger with better endurance. But it sure ain't no magical diet. Without drugs you look no more impressive than a normal eating guy who lifts and is natural. Genetics still play a huge role in how easy it is to get lean. I think the biggest difference is in how healthy down the road it is to not eat a ton of meat. Also I sleep way better which may be a contributing factor in increased strength. Most of the same principles apply though. Calories have to be dialed in to slow bulk or slow cut. I will also say I can't eat fruit all day. I have to have rice, beans, pasta, potatoes etc... I suppose it's not for everyone but before you trash it, try it for yourself for a few months if you're curious.
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Without drugs you look no more impressive than a normal eating guy who lifts and is natural.
And I think it's a good result.
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And I think it's a good result.
stop bumping old threads moron...
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it's true, carbs are bad for you, while fats are good for you
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Looks great on paper, but in the real world this diet does not work for bodybuilders, especially natties.
I followed this diet to a T for 6 months in my early 30's. I did it twice because I thought I did something wrong the first time.
Results:
Less sub-Q water and some fat loss, but I was flat as pancake most days and gradually got weaker in the gym. Doesn't matter how much I ate and rested. Intense leg training is practically impossible on low/no carbs. Some recommend carb up days, but this creates a yo-yo effect on insulin levels and made me feel lethargic. Being young and taking some stims made it more tolerable.
Carbs are definitely necessary for focus, pumps and energy levels. Don't believe the hype.
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stop bumping old threads moron...
This
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I’ve been carb free for a few weeks now and it’s great.feel so much better.Definitely tightening up and becoming More vascular.Just started adding veggies in as before it was all egg whites,meat,fish and poultry.So easy to stick with it as well.i used to eat at least 500 g of carbs a day and usually around 1000 a day.Ive lost a good 15 lbs.
So imo carbs suck.
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Protein and Fats build muscle, carbs "spare" muscle.
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Protein and Fats build muscle, carbs "spare" muscle.
training builds muscle...
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training builds muscle...
and steroids
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My background is cycling (track) so i'll chime in on that Durian rider and others. They were both drug addicts for starters. Durian doesn't race because at that level the races are tested...... read the comments on their videos and you will hear tales of diarrhea, digestion issues, skin issues, weight gain. I followed DR for a while for his cycling stuff but i stopped because he is a nut. Meth? Ice? Dunno but the dude has several people who have filmed him going beserk..... it's not normal, there is something there.
Cyclists struggle with weight. It makes you fucking hungry. They'll gain 10kg+ out of racing. the more cycling you do, the harder it is to not get fat.
The guys i know racing Cat 1-2 joke about having an eating disorder. They starve to keep the weight down. They'll eat clean carb food sure, but are fucking starving on the inside. Pros who look like skeletons have been open about having issues controlling their weight on 20hrs/wk training schedules.
When doing 10hrs/wk training i struggled to hold weight due to hunger. On 20hrs/wk hunger was out of control and weight flew up even on 250/wk test.
Dr Fung treats the morbidly obese who has clips on youtube. After testing on fatties the data shows:
*Not eating anything doesn't hurt metabolism and burns fat. Water fasting. He doesn't get people stage ready......... so just focus on obese people.
*Eating carbs in a deficit lowers metabolic rate and over a period will result in a binge then weight gain.
*Eating ketogenic is next best to fasting and won't hurt metabolism. You want to do 500-1000 calorie Keotgenic days, high fat.
Any protein/muscle breakdown apparently is done by taking the BAD muscle first. Then when you eat the body rebuilds the bad area better than before (apparently).
It's a very good watch.
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He talk about what they do on the Biggest Loser for most of the clip for those who are interested. He got the data from their contestants.
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My background is cycling (track) so i'll chime in on that Durian rider and others. They were both drug addicts for starters. Durian doesn't race because at that level the races are tested...... read the comments on their videos and you will hear tales of diarrhea, digestion issues, skin issues, weight gain. I followed DR for a while for his cycling stuff but i stopped because he is a nut. Meth? Ice? Dunno but the dude has several people who have filmed him going beserk..... it's not normal, there is something there.
The guys i know racing Cat 1-2 joke about having an eating disorder. They starve to keep the weight down. They'll eat clean carb food sure, but are fucking starving on the inside. Pros who look like skeletons have been open about having issues controlling their weight on 20hrs/wk training schedules.
When doing 10hrs/wk training i struggled to hold weight due to hunger. On 20hrs/wk hunger was out of control and weight flew up even on 250/wk test.Cyclists struggle with weight. It makes you fucking hungry. They'll gain 10kg+ out of racing. the more cycling you do, the harder it is to not get fat.
Dr Fung treats the morbidly obese who has clips on youtube. After testing on fatties the data shows:
*Not eating anything doesn't hurt metabolism and burns fat. Water fasting. He doesn't get people stage ready......... so just focus on obese people.
*Eating carbs in a deficit lowers metabolic rate and over a period will result in a binge then weight gain.
*Eating ketogenic is next best to fasting and won't hurt metabolism. You want to do 500-1000 calorie Keotgenic days, high fat.
Any protein/muscle breakdown apparently is done by taking the BAD muscle first. Then when you eat the body rebuilds the bad area better than before (apparently).
It's a very good watch.
let me get this right, the more cycling they do the fatter they get????
I hope that's not what you are trying to say...
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Here's my take. Maybe bro science but this is empirical knowledge. Sometimes experience is the best teacher. Something is going on with aerobic type exercise that is more than accounted for with the calories burnt during the session. Call it an after burn. Anyone that has done a seriously hard 45 minute run will be burning more calories for a 24 hour period. Call it metabolism but I call it the body adapting to the stress placed upon it. To survive the body adapts by shedding body weight past the cardio session. Some would say volume training has a similar effect.
Calories used that is calculated on many cardio machines is somewhat voodoo or down right fraud on many exercise machines. They all want to be known as the best. I've been on elliptical machines that show 600 calories used for what I thought was a fairly casual session. I've also been on treadmills where that is a near death experience to get to 600 calories. So that indicator is a tool and not to be believed judging cross platforms of cardio. Another point is when I was on track in college some of the most insane eaters were distance runners. Big difference between slugging miles and attacking miles so intensity plays a role.
A pound of fat is 3500 calories. It seems like it would be a simple math project to calculate the amount of cardio you are doing to figure out when a pound is lost. It's not that simple. A pound of muscle by the way is 2500 calories by some sources. When I do hard cardio I always lose a lot more than what the calories used would account for. Some might say I am not accounting for dehydration but by the mirror judging fat loss something more is going on. In the end in summary by this bro you can lose a lot more than what the current science concerning calories used accounts for. I think in time science will prove me right.
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I’ve been carb free for a few weeks now and it’s great.feel so much better.Definitely tightening up and becoming More vascular.Just started adding veggies in as before it was all egg whites,meat,fish and poultry.So easy to stick with it as well.i used to eat at least 500 g of carbs a day and usually around 1000 a day.Ive lost a good 15 lbs.
So imo carbs suck.
Natty? If yes, you'll only get smaller and weaker and time goes by. Trust me.
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Natty? If yes, you'll only get smaller and weaker and time goes by. Trust me.
Smaller, maybe. But I never got weaker, but I did things correctly, very high sodium, creatine is essential, electrolytes are essential.
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Smaller, maybe. But I never got weaker, but I did things correctly, very high sodium, creatine is essential, electrolytes are essential.
and we all know why, dont be like O'Hearn, just don't mention it....
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Smaller, maybe. But I never got weaker, but I did things correctly, very high sodium, creatine is essential, electrolytes are essential.
So, you were natty when you did that? How long did you go no-carb?... weeks or months? Natty's who go no-carb for longer periods always get much smaller and weaker. No way to change that unless drugs are used.
Being young makes a huge difference. I was still able to squat 315 for 20 reps after being no carbs for several months. It was beyond difficult, but I still did it, probably because I was 28 years old. It took a long time to recover from those leg workouts without carbs, I could barely function afterwards. With carbs I was able to squat 405 for 20.
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Natty? If yes, you'll only get smaller and weaker and time goes by. Trust me.
Yes natty.ive been getting stronger oddly enough and doing 4 workouts a week and cardio for an hour 5-6 days a week.Occasionally feel sluggish but most of the time feel incredible.
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Smaller, maybe. But I never got weaker, but I did things correctly, very high sodium, creatine is essential, electrolytes are essential.
yep
tons of NaCl are for awesome epic pumps and a vascular look while on keto.
also add in the Potassium too - thank you for the extra go 4 it - making great gains
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i do miss the epic carb poops through
tons of sweet potatoes you can take some #2s that feel euphoric (i had to research it) and it is true
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i do miss the epic carb poops through
tons of sweet potatoes you can take some #2s that feel euphoric (i had to research it) and it is true
Yeah I’m down to crapping twice a week now.I used to go multiple times a day.
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i do miss the epic carb poops through
tons of sweet potatoes you can take some #2s that feel euphoric (i had to research it) and it is true
No carb poops don't stink nearly as bad either. Better be taking a fiber supplement when on a no carb diet.
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Yes natty.ive been getting stronger oddly enough and doing 4 workouts a week and cardio for an hour 5-6 days a week.Occasionally feel sluggish but most of the time feel incredible.
How long you been on no carb?
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not sure what youre discussing.
but i assume its about losing weight, getting lean etc so who cares if you lose strength?
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let me get this right, the more cycling they do the fatter they get????
I hope that's not what you are trying to say...
Go do proper training on a bike for 5hrs/wk. Then go train 20hrs/wk. Then chuck in racing.
I guess this is a sport you havent been involved in before but yes, hunger goes crazy big the more riding you do (surprise, surprise). The risk becomes overeating to kill the hunger.
In today's world with today's diets people dont eat great to begin with. Chuck in a crazy high hunger level and it's a battle of the bulge. Thats what i struggled with badly and ultimately my weight crept up.
I live in the largest cycling population.in my country. Heaps of fat riders, crazy fit though. The main cafe in town packed with cyclidts ordering croissants, 4 coffees, muffins etc.
It's one of the reasons pro cycling is full of amphetamines and stimulants. to dull the hunger.
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How long you been on no carb?
Not to long,maybe 3 weeks.Everyone says I should have no energy and be weak but I have more energy than before and I’m training like crazy,is this normal in the beginning?
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not sure what youre discussing.
but i assume its about losing weight, getting lean etc so who cares if you lose strength?
i agree about the strength - who cares i know longer use 120lbs dbs for incline bench and only use 95lbs now