Author Topic: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?  (Read 8922 times)

cephissus

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Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« on: January 01, 2016, 06:47:15 PM »
First off, I'm not trying to "push my position" with this thread -- I don't even have one.  I'm genuinely curious about what people think is going on here.

Like many vegan youtubers, this guy:

1.  Makes lots of "what I ate today" videos.
2.  Eats a high carb, low fat and low protein diet.
3.  Exercises daily (endurance training).

As someone who thinks "calories in, calories out" is the best model for understanding weight gain/fat loss, I'm baffled by his results.  In short, he did a series of 31 videos chronicling his daily eating/exercising.  He eats about 4-8k daily (summaries at end of videos), and does about 1-3 hours of aerobic activity (distance running, mostly).

Even being VERY generous, he's burning MAYBE 2000 cals/day exercising, yet it doesn't look like he's gained any weight throughout the month.  Furthermore, as far as I can tell, he's been eating more or less the same way for the past year (at least), and doesn't look to have put on any appreciable amount of weight.


Here's the last three videos (days 29-31):
(7.7k cals)
(6.9k cals)
(6.4k cals)

And the first three (days 1-3):
(4.6k cals)
(4.3 kcals)
(6.1 kcals)

I chose this guy because I think he's a good example of a difficult-to-explain phenomenon.  Across the board, these vegan youtubers seem to have normal or even very low bodyfat while consuming tons of food.

To me, a few reasonable possibilities may be:

1.  He's young (about 20) and you can eat more when you're young.
2.  He's genetically predisposed to handle this diet well.
3.  He's lying.

As a counterpoint to 1 and 2 though, take someone like freelee.  She looked like shit in her 20s -- I don't think anyone would bring up her DNA just from looking at her.  Now, in her mid-thirties she's sickeningly lean on the same sort of diet/exercise regime (supposedly).



Yeah, they could both be scammers (vegan agenda), you can't know much about someone's DNA just by looking at them, etc.

Still, it has me very curious -- maybe there's something to high-carb diets?  And if so, why are they so out-of-fashion?

drkaje

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2016, 08:50:10 PM »
You don't think someone would lie to advance an agenda?

Rammstein

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2016, 11:15:40 PM »
Just finished reading this book:http://highsteaks.com/carnivores-creed/the-stone-age-diet-walter-l-voegtlin-1975/

Very interesting!

cephissus

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2016, 12:40:05 AM »
You don't think someone would lie to advance an agenda?

I do.  But to be honest, the more videos I watch, the less likely it seems.  Freelee and DR, yeah I'll always be suspicious of them.  But a nobody like drew (the first guy I linked) and many others... the likelihood that they're all lying seems low.

Even vegan gains stays very lean while routinely eating 4k+ calories and easy bbing workouts/light cycling.

pellius

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2016, 02:54:53 AM »
If you are only concern with weight gain/loss then it's all about calories in/calories out. If you are also concerned with body composition and health then it is not so simple. What TA ignores is what happens to those calories once it's "in" your body and the effects it has. 400 calories of protein in your body will have a different effect than 400 calories of sugar.


MAXX

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2016, 02:59:35 AM »
endurance athletes burns alot more than 2k daily I Think

but probably not eating that much. youtubers will say and do things for views

drkaje

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2016, 05:32:46 AM »
If you are only concern with weight gain/loss the it's all about calories in/calories out. If you are also concerned with body composition and health than it is not so simple. What TA ignores is what happens to those calories once it's "in" your body and the effects it has. 400 calories of protein in your body will have a different effect than 400 calories of sugar.



That's common sense and basic physiology.

Thong Maniac

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2016, 05:34:42 AM »
Ceph interesting vids. Yeah I've been vegan/vegetarian for the last 4 months or so and don't notice any weight loss effect, but I have been eating pizza and sugar and chocolate often...I do think it's calories though. The guy in the vids is young, and doing endurance work outs. I abused food much more than him at that age and only put on about 10lbs of fat and I wasn't training much either. I did that for a year. It's all age bro IMO.

MAXX

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2016, 06:00:04 AM »
what's with this gay vegan hippie crap lately. sigh.....

BBSSchlemiel

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2016, 06:54:37 AM »
As a relatively new vegan I am eating more carbs and less protein than ever (last two months) while keeping calories relatively stable and I have not gained any fat.

Henda

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2016, 06:56:23 AM »
what's with this gay vegan hippie crap lately. sigh.....

 x 2

It's disgracefull, nowonder masculinity is going down the fucking toilet with this fag shit

mazrim

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2016, 07:04:30 AM »
The vegans I know consume the least amount of food.

Griffith

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2016, 07:10:11 AM »
He's an active 20 year old, probably with a good metabolism too.

Very few of my friends at that age were fat or overweight, our diets were terrible and we drank a lot of beer and other alcohol, but we could get away with it then.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2016, 08:03:25 AM »
Ceph interesting vids. Yeah I've been vegan/vegetarian for the last 4 months or so and don't notice any weight loss effect, but I have been eating pizza and sugar and chocolate often...I do think it's calories though. The guy in the vids is young, and doing endurance work outs. I abused food much more than him at that age and only put on about 10lbs of fat and I wasn't training much either. I did that for a year. It's all age bro IMO.


This is where Vegans fail. They think it's all about not eating animal protein when it's really about eating nutrient dense vegetables.

I'm anything but a Vegan but I'm sure I eat more veggies, green leafys in particular, than 90% of these so-called Vegans.

He's an active 20 year old, probably with a good metabolism too.

Very few of my friends at that age were fat or overweight, our diets were terrible and we drank a lot of beer and other alcohol, but we could get away with it then.

Exactly. When you're in your prime years, you can get away with all kinds of shit. When you hit middle age, the bills start showing up.

In this regard, we're just like cars. You can trash a new car pretty good without negative consequences. That doesn't mean that what you're doing is good for the car. 2-3 hours of aerobics a day is unsustainable. Eventually, you'll get sick and/or injured.

cephissus

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2016, 04:23:36 PM »
okay if it's age, how about this one?  7 days in a row, 5k+ calories:









guy's in his mid-thirties.  according to strava, averages about 2 hrs a day on the bike, 1000 cals.  claims to have lived this way for well over a decade.

NelsonMuntz

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2016, 04:28:33 PM »

This is where Vegans fail. They think it's all about not eating animal protein when it's really about eating nutrient dense vegetables.

I'm anything but a Vegan but I'm sure I eat more veggies, green leafys in particular, than 90% of these so-called Vegans.

Exactly. When you're in your prime years, you can get away with all kinds of shit. When you hit middle age, the bills start showing up.

In this regard, we're just like cars. You can trash a new car pretty good without negative consequences. That doesn't mean that what you're doing is good for the car. 2-3 hours of aerobics a day is unsustainable. Eventually, you'll get sick and/or injured.


The vegans and vegetarians I have known through life tend to be junk food addicts compared to meat eaters especially with these bakeries and restaurants catering to imitating alot of fast food, cake, cookie and chocolate dishes, and alot of tend to eat especially the chicks a ton of pasta

Not saying meat eaters don't eat junk, but the vegans and vegetarians I have known take it to whole knew level and think because they don't eat meat that its ok lol
"

iwannabejacked

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2016, 07:29:18 PM »
I have wondered the same, especially with a guy like Erik the electric. Dude used to be fat when he was a teenager, then anorexic and now eats insane amounts of food and tells people because he cycles everyday and is very active he can get away with eating a ton. What's more surprising is he went from 162-169 (his weight fluctuates a lot) to 156 lbs while eating a shit ton on average and doing eating challenges.

I think some of these guys have eating disorders and purge. Freelee is indeed a strange case. She might be using PEDs. That level of leanness for a woman plus not being young and eating a ton don't really go together.

My  conclusion is these vegan youtubers trending right now are no better than the typical fake natties lying left and right and posting their boring eating/lifting days while showing off their material possessions. IMO these vegans/competitive eaters are lying and trying to appear extraordinary by indulging in food orgies lol and managing to stay in great shape and lean. Like their fake natty youtubers, they are just deceivers trying to make an interesting show to earn money.

HTexan

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2016, 07:30:54 PM »
You don't think someone would lie to advance an agenda?
People lie to make money? Went did this start happening?  ??? ;D
A

cephissus

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2016, 07:40:24 PM »
I have wondered the same, especially with a guy like Erik the electric. Dude used to be fat when he was a teenager, then anorexic and now eats insane amounts of food and tells people because he cycles everyday and is very active he can get away with eating a ton. What's more surprising is he went from 162-169 (his weight fluctuates a lot) to 156 lbs while eating a shit ton on average and doing eating challenges.

I think some of these guys have eating disorders and purge. Freelee is indeed a strange case. She might be using PEDs. That level of leanness for a woman plus not being young and eating a ton don't really go together.

My  conclusion is these vegan youtubers trending right now are no better than the typical fake natties lying left and right and posting their boring eating/lifting days while showing off their material possessions. IMO these vegans/competitive eaters are lying and trying to appear extraordinary by indulging in food orgies lol and managing to stay in great shape and lean. Like their fake natty youtubers, they are just deceivers trying to make an interesting show to earn money.

great post, and likely hypothesis.  erik's cycling numbers are crazy (check strava).  during thanksgiving week he was putting up 3+ hour rides at 300+ average wattage every day.  claims to do it all fasted, too!

he gets very blustery when questioned about trt and the like.

freelee is probably the most interesting to me... i wouldnt be at all surprised if durianrider has some secret drug regimen for her.  before she met him, she was just another addle-brained raw vegan who looked totally average.

that dude is crafty as fuck, and a genius in his own way.  she's his little, vacant-headed puppet.  i think he found the perfect meal ticket: fat loss formula + braindead sales vessel + youtube.

Radical Plato

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2016, 07:50:15 PM »
First off, I'm not trying to "push my position" with this thread -- I don't even have one.  I'm genuinely curious about what people think is going on here.

Like many vegan youtubers, this guy:

1.  Makes lots of "what I ate today" videos.
2.  Eats a high carb, low fat and low protein diet.
3.  Exercises daily (endurance training).

As someone who thinks "calories in, calories out" is the best model for understanding weight gain/fat loss, I'm baffled by his results.  In short, he did a series of 31 videos chronicling his daily eating/exercising.  He eats about 4-8k daily (summaries at end of videos), and does about 1-3 hours of aerobic activity (distance running, mostly).

Even being VERY generous, he's burning MAYBE 2000 cals/day exercising, yet it doesn't look like he's gained any weight throughout the month.  Furthermore, as far as I can tell, he's been eating more or less the same way for the past year (at least), and doesn't look to have put on any appreciable amount of weight.


Yeah, they could both be scammers (vegan agenda), you can't know much about someone's DNA just by looking at them, etc.

Still, it has me very curious -- maybe there's something to high-carb diets?  And if so, why are they so out-of-fashion?
You are not including the calories he is burning when not exercising, which would be considerable considering his elevated metabolism from all the cardio.
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cephissus

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2016, 07:53:04 PM »
You are not including the calories he is burning when not exercising, which would be considerable considering his elevated metabolism from all the cardio.

how much do you think epoc accounts for?  never looked into it, but always assumed very little.  maybe ill read up on it next.

iwannabejacked

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2016, 07:58:24 PM »
I'd say most of them use PEDs. Anyways, I have also wondered what happens after a guy like Erik the electric does those crazy things like 48000  calories in 48 hours. He gains like 15-20 lbs in one day. The next few days must be miserable and feeling sick as fuck. I think there is some fat gain from that, which he avoids by purging.

 I don't get how the fuck he trains or cycles intensively after eating copious amounts of food. It just seems so sense deprived, yet he seems untroubled. Also, I don't buy into what he says that he is in a better mental place than he was during anorexia. I mean, no one in their right minds eats 30000+ calories for fun, because at the end it becomes a punishment. He is probably sick for many days of the month with the way he eats. Add the excessive exercise to counteract the eating. Idk, I just can't fathom him being completely pleased with what he shows on his channel.

Radical Plato

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2016, 08:05:05 PM »
how much do you think epoc accounts for?  never looked into it, but always assumed very little.  maybe ill read up on it next.
Hard to say exactly, as I am sure it varies a lot from individual to individual.  But I found this from the following site : http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-library/exercise-after-burn-0
Give it a read, it has a lot of good useful information on the topic.
EPOC and Cardiovascular Exercise
The Effect of Intensity

Research demonstrates that the intensity of a cardiovascular exercise bout has the greatest impact on EPOC. As exercise intensity increases, the magnitude and duration of EPOC increase.

In a study by Bahr and Sejersted (1991), subjects completed exercise bouts at intensities of 29%, 50% and 75% of VO2max for a period of 80 minutes. The greatest EPOC was reported following the highest exercise intensity (75% VO2max): 30.1 liters (L) of oxygen consumed, or 150.5 calories burned. (Note: Not all studies report actual caloric expenditure, but it is well understood in all exercise physiology and nutrition texts that for every liter of oxygen consumed, approximately 5 calories are burned.) Additionally, the duration of EPOC following the highest- intensity exercise was significantly longer when compared to the lower-intensity bouts (10.5 hours versus 0.3 and 3.3 hours).
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Tennisballz

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2016, 08:28:01 PM »
It's very possible to build or maintain a nice muscular physique on a HCLF vegan diet, but don't expect to look like a competetive bodybuilder.  I have eaten a vegan diet for a while and not concerned myself with protein at all and I've noticed I'm slightly less bloated and a bit stronger with better endurance.  But it sure ain't no magical diet.  Without drugs you look no more impressive than a normal eating guy who lifts and is natural.  Genetics still play a huge role in how easy it is to get lean.  I think the biggest difference is in how healthy down the road it is to not eat a ton of meat.  Also I sleep way better which may be a contributing factor in increased strength.  Most of the same principles apply though.  Calories have to be dialed in to slow bulk or slow cut.  I will also say I can't eat fruit all day.  I have to have rice, beans, pasta, potatoes etc... I suppose it's not for everyone but before you trash it, try it for yourself for a few months if you're curious.

elmerhoff

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Re: Carbs bad, fat good? How do you explain this?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2018, 08:02:16 AM »
Without drugs you look no more impressive than a normal eating guy who lifts and is natural.  
And I think it's a good result.