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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: calfzilla on January 18, 2016, 08:34:36 PM

Title: How much protein is really needed
Post by: calfzilla on January 18, 2016, 08:34:36 PM
Do we really need 150 grams a day to build and maintain muscle? Seems like a lot.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Henda on January 18, 2016, 09:02:15 PM
Not sure on the amount but always feel stronger and more energy, especially for the gym when making an effort to get more protein in

150grams is not that much, normally have 100grams in my evening meal.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: jude2 on January 18, 2016, 09:21:36 PM
Do we really need 150 grams a day to build and maintain muscle? Seems like a lot.
How is 150 grams a lot to any real man?
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 18, 2016, 09:32:13 PM
The ol' gram per pound or so has done well for most.

Try and see if you're a better or worse version of yourself and lower it. But be honest and what is your inner voice telling you? You think guys go out of their way to consume all that protein for nothing?
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: hazbin on January 18, 2016, 09:37:04 PM
I always consumed 400+ grams per day, mostly powders.

the two comments I heard most, usually one after the other from the same person......

your body cant' use all that protein....then,

but seriously, how do you grow so damn fast??

 from taking that much protein I would reply.

but your body can only use 100 grams a day. 

and so on, and so on....
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Ropo on January 18, 2016, 09:49:22 PM
The ol' gram per pound kilo or so has done well for most.

Try and see if you're a better or worse version of yourself and lower it. But be honest and what is your inner voice telling you? You think guys go out of their way to consume all that protein for nothing?

Fixed..
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Ropo on January 18, 2016, 09:53:03 PM
I always consumed 400+ grams per day, mostly powders.

the two comments I heard most, usually one after the other from the same person......

your body cant' use all that protein....then,

but seriously, how do you grow so damn fast??

 from taking that much protein I would reply.

but your body can only use 100 grams a day. 

and so on, and so on....

Wrong answer. Try this: "but seriously, how do you grow so damn fast??" Answer: "I use gear, a lot of it".. ;D
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 18, 2016, 09:59:01 PM
Fixed..

What needs fixing are your dormant brain cells to post such crap.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: iwantmass on January 18, 2016, 10:43:59 PM
I always consumed 400+ grams per day, mostly powders.

the two comments I heard most, usually one after the other from the same person......

your body cant' use all that protein....then,

but seriously, how do you grow so damn fast??

 from taking that much protein I would reply.

but your body can only use 100 grams a day. 

and so on, and so on....

People like Wooooo need to be reading this, rather than spouting off about powdered protein being worthless.  A quality powder makes achieving high amounts of protein very easy, and judging by your pics, it seems to be treating you well enough
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: cephissus on January 18, 2016, 11:03:32 PM
oh brother

halve your protein and see what happens, if you dare ::)
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Griffith on January 18, 2016, 11:27:36 PM
I always consumed 400+ grams per day, mostly powders.

the two comments I heard most, usually one after the other from the same person......

your body cant' use all that protein....then,

but seriously, how do you grow so damn fast??

 from taking that much protein I would reply.

but your body can only use 100 grams a day. 

and so on, and so on....

Good point, though steroids arguably enable more protein to be used for muscle growth?
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BlackMetallic on January 19, 2016, 12:08:50 AM
Yep

Protein synthesis is increased
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BlackMetallic on January 19, 2016, 12:13:23 AM
1-1.5 grams per lb of lbm for naturals

 
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Yamcha on January 19, 2016, 02:18:15 AM
oh brother

halve your protein and see what happens, if you dare ::)

 ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Royalty on January 19, 2016, 02:36:16 AM
I don't think there is a need to exceed 250 grams per day.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: SuperTed on January 19, 2016, 04:02:44 AM
As much as you feel you need. Depends on the indivudal really.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: sceagacros on January 19, 2016, 04:08:15 AM
A good rule of thumb is if your wife isn't making you sleep on the couch, there is room for more protien in your diet...
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: falco on January 19, 2016, 04:17:37 AM
The amount of protein ingested daily will determine your size. The more, the bigger you become, assuming you train and use exogenous hormones.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: rocket on January 19, 2016, 04:20:54 AM
As much as you feel you need. Depends on the indivudal really.

I never felt anything about protein that gave me a clue
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: local hero on January 19, 2016, 04:35:57 AM
How is 150 grams a lot to any real man?


Its not, its next to nothing... And these people wonder why they have stick insect proportions
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: SuperTed on January 19, 2016, 04:50:26 AM
I never felt anything about protein that gave me a clue

Really? So for instance, you never felt stronger, weaker, bigger, smaller etc. depending on your protein intake?
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BlackMetallic on January 19, 2016, 05:17:20 AM
Absorbtion and utilization are two different things

Your body can absorb any amount of protein. If it doesn't you're either gonna get diarrhea or vomit

Utilization is a different story

There's some discoveries within the last 2 years on protein utilization. Last I read it was 10 grams every 45-60 min.

  
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: scottt on January 19, 2016, 05:30:29 AM
1.2 to 1.6 g/kg per body mass per day. Taken from Nutrition for Athletes - International Olympic Committee. Or .54 to.72 grams per pound of body mass.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: WannaBePro on January 19, 2016, 05:38:02 AM
1.2 to 1.6 g/kg per body mass per day. Taken from Nutrition for Athletes - International Olympic Committee. Or .54 to.72 grams per pound of body mass.

You realize that's for athletes, who eat a ton of carbs cause they train 10 hours a day. Bodybuilders are not athletes, they work out for a max of 2 hours a day (and that's the John Meadows types). Bodybuilders are better off eating more protein and less carbs cause 90% of their day is spent on the couch.
Real athletes, runners, sprinters, swimmers, etc... are better off being lighter but stronger #-for-#. Bodybuilders need to LOOK bigger while strength/skill is completely secondary. That's why you can't translate IOC's recommendation to bodybuilders.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Yamcha on January 19, 2016, 05:42:46 AM
You realize that's for athletes, who eat a ton of carbs cause they train 10 hours a day. Bodybuilders are not athletes, they work out for a max of 2 hours a day (and that's the John Meadows types). Bodybuilders are better off eating more protein and less carbs cause 90% of their day is spent on the couch.
Real athletes, runners, sprinters, swimmers, etc... are better off being lighter but stronger #-for-#. Bodybuilders need to LOOK bigger while strength/skill is completely secondary. That's why you can't translate IOC's recommendation to bodybuilders.

(http://img.pandawhale.com/post-35512-yes-very-good-gif-Gandalf-Lord-Co8i.gif)
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 05:54:10 AM
You realize that's for athletes, who eat a ton of carbs cause they train 10 hours a day. Bodybuilders are not athletes, they work out for a max of 2 hours a day (and that's the John Meadows types). Bodybuilders are better off eating more protein and less carbs cause 90% of their day is spent on the couch.
Real athletes, runners, sprinters, swimmers, etc... are better off being lighter but stronger #-for-#. Bodybuilders need to LOOK bigger while strength/skill is completely secondary. That's why you can't translate IOC's recommendation to bodybuilders.

Completely unscientific reasoning.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: OB1 on January 19, 2016, 05:58:38 AM
If natural you can probably get away without fart powder given a good diet.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: WannaBePro on January 19, 2016, 05:58:56 AM
Completely unscientific reasoning.

Please elaborate.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Waller on January 19, 2016, 07:12:48 AM
Please elaborate.

The more muscle mass you have the more energy you need while doing nothing.  Look up base metabolic rate.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 19, 2016, 07:14:01 AM
If natural you can probably get away without fart powder given a good diet.


Not even. It's just not realistic to get 200gr protein per day from whole food. I do 50/50 or so to get 220ish grams.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: OB1 on January 19, 2016, 07:18:19 AM
Not even. It's just not realistic to get 200gr protein per day from whole food. I do 50/50 or so to get 220ish grams.

220 is a lot.
Might have to cheat using peanut butter and the like.
Yeah, not that easy on those numbers.

Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 19, 2016, 07:19:49 AM
220 is a lot.
Might have to cheat using peanut butter and the like.
Yeah, not that easy on those numbers.



I don't even count the protein in peanut butter. It counts, yes, but not really.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Grape Ape on January 19, 2016, 07:38:47 AM
I don't even count the protein in peanut butter. It counts, yes, but not really.

Same here - don't count PB, lentils, pasta or anything else like that.

Then again, I don't actually count anything, but agree in principle.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: _aj_ on January 19, 2016, 07:42:35 AM
Been eating 250+/day for close to 25 years. I like protein.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: WannaBePro on January 19, 2016, 07:54:04 AM
The more muscle mass you have the more energy you need while doing nothing.  Look up base metabolic rate.

Lol I know BMR. But what I'm saying is most successful bbers take gear to maintain the muscle and eat a ton of protein, because you need aminos to support muscle mass. It would be counter-productive for someone to eat 800g carbs and 100g protein, when 300g protein and 500g carbs is probably more beneficial to someone who is sedentary most of the day (even at 250+lbs) because the goal is to keep as much muscle as possible while minimizing bodyfat. An endurance athlete can benefit way more from 1000g carbs/day and 100g protein because they don't care about maintaining muscle mass, they need energy for performance. Bodybuilders "perform" for an hour at the gym 5 days a week. Toss in 20mins steady-state cardio and you have Mr. O.
Protein is metabolized differently than carbs. It takes your body more energy to break down protein into aminos, use that for muscle repair, and then gluconeogenesis for what's left over than carbs going right into glucose and being used as energy that way. Plus, we have studies which show that food high in leucine (found in mostly eggs and meat) promote better muscle protein synthesis than things low or missing leucine such as most carbs sources.
Source: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/533S.full (http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/533S.full)
Quote
recovery is apparently dependent on supplemental dietary leucine in order to increase the intracellular leucine concentration, which activates mTOR and the initiation factors eIF4E and eIF4G.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: falco on January 19, 2016, 08:04:32 AM
If natural you can probably get away without fart powder given a good diet.


When i competed and used small dose test i didn't touched fart powder. Makes you hold water.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: WannaBePro on January 19, 2016, 08:18:38 AM
When i competed and used small dose test i didn't touched fart powder. Makes you hold water.

I never noticed the difference... Or is that something that works in synergy with test? You'd think drinking protein powder would make you hold less water, since, assuming its an isolate, it doesn't have lactose or anything else but protein and sweetener in it. I've never noticed a difference between eating 6 meals a day or eating 4 + 2 shakes, physique-wise.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Griffith on January 19, 2016, 08:44:31 AM
Not even. It's just not realistic to get 200gr protein per day from whole food. I do 50/50 or so to get 220ish grams.

Do you really notice a difference with such high protein?
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Yamcha on January 19, 2016, 08:48:57 AM
Do you really notice a difference with such high protein?

more potent smelling semen
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 19, 2016, 08:52:48 AM
Do you really notice a difference with such high protein?

Compared to say 180, yes. I've never seen benefits over 240ish though. Just the need to shit.

I need carbs, lots of them.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Waller on January 19, 2016, 09:12:17 AM
Lol I know BMR. But what I'm saying is most successful bbers take gear to maintain the muscle and eat a ton of protein, because you need aminos to support muscle mass. It would be counter-productive for someone to eat 800g carbs and 100g protein, when 300g protein and 500g carbs is probably more beneficial to someone who is sedentary most of the day (even at 250+lbs) because the goal is to keep as much muscle as possible while minimizing bodyfat. An endurance athlete can benefit way more from 1000g carbs/day and 100g protein because they don't care about maintaining muscle mass, they need energy for performance. Bodybuilders "perform" for an hour at the gym 5 days a week. Toss in 20mins steady-state cardio and you have Mr. O.
Protein is metabolized differently than carbs. It takes your body more energy to break down protein into aminos, use that for muscle repair, and then gluconeogenesis for what's left over than carbs going right into glucose and being used as energy that way. Plus, we have studies which show that food high in leucine (found in mostly eggs and meat) promote better muscle protein synthesis than things low or missing leucine such as most carbs sources.
Source: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/533S.full (http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/533S.full)

I grow more (not fat) when I have a decent amount of carbs each day.

I misread your original point as I was rushing. I thought you said low protein
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Grape Ape on January 19, 2016, 09:15:13 AM
Do you really notice a difference with such high protein?

When I purposely used to drive protein to the 250+ gram range, I routinely felt fuller and stronger.  Now, it could have also been the fact that I was younger.

I'll give it a shot over the next 10 days just for the fuck of it.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 09:15:39 AM
Same here - don't count PB, lentils, pasta or anything else like that.

Then again, I don't actually count anything, but agree in principle.

Why don't they count considering all the items you listed provide protein/amino acids, and even in the case of incomplete ones, the body is quite efficient at storing and recycling amino acids and even ones from our own muscle tissue?

There have always been men and still are those who have great mass and strength who do not go by the played-out, unscientific recommendation of one gram of bro-tein per pound or more.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 19, 2016, 10:13:19 AM
If I were to count the protein I get just from post workout pasta I'd have about 17 grams. So I guess I only need like 23 grams of protein from chicken to get my 40ish wanted/needed for that meal huh?

If I listened to fools like you I never would have weighed over 200lbs. You guys just don't get the big picture and sound like bookworms who've never lifted a weight.

Please post pics of how huge 150 grams of protein will get you. Since I can see this not happening already, gonna get straight to the part where I tell you to shut the fuck up.

Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 10:32:46 AM
If I were to count the protein I get just from post workout pasta I'd have about 17 grams. So I guess I only need like 23 grams of protein from chicken to get my 40ish wanted/needed for that meal huh?

If I listened to fools like you I never would have weighed over 200lbs. You guys just don't get the big picture and sound like bookworms who've never lifted a weight.

Please post pics of how huge 150 grams of protein will get you. Since I can see this not happening already, gonna get straight to the part where I tell you to shut the fuck up.



Funny how Mike Mentzer got to his size considering his paltry 60 to 80 gram protein intake.

You would have reached 200 for sure given you took in enough calories, even with lowered protein intake, tough guy!

I don't get the picture? I'm 36 and have lifted since my late teens. And to think I will post pictures on a board like this and give up anonymity?  ;D
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 10:33:58 AM
If I were to count the protein I get just from post workout pasta I'd have about 17 grams. So I guess I only need like 23 grams of protein from chicken to get my 40ish wanted/needed for that meal huh?




That's correct. Something wrong with this fact: 17 + 23 = 40. I know, sometimes lifters have problems with reality.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: PJim on January 19, 2016, 10:54:43 AM
If you are natural a gram per pound of lean mass is more than sufficient.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 19, 2016, 11:00:16 AM
I have seen earlier studies that show even on a low protein diet you can build muscle.  It seems all the current "research" on protein needs is just grabbed out of people's asses from questionable internet sources or the protein powder companies clinical trials. The clinical trails are always conducted at an unknown and undocumented "clinic".  I want to see the nitrogen retention tests using low and high protein diets on guys that weight train.

I use protein powder and I think it's out of insecurity that I might be missing out if I didn't use the expensive fart powder. Most of the protein companies that claim their powder is better than their competition is actually sourced from the same supplier of whey.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: OB1 on January 19, 2016, 11:03:38 AM
You can get away with much less than generally accepted.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: _aj_ on January 19, 2016, 11:15:12 AM
If I were to count the protein I get just from post workout pasta I'd have about 17 grams. So I guess I only need like 23 grams of protein from chicken to get my 40ish wanted/needed for that meal huh?

If I listened to fools like you I never would have weighed over 200lbs. You guys just don't get the big picture and sound like bookworms who've never lifted a weight.

Please post pics of how huge 150 grams of protein will get you. Since I can see this not happening already, gonna get straight to the part where I tell you to shut the fuck up.

lmao
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 11:17:08 AM
Great books that address the protein love affair of the past century:
How Much Protein? by Brad Pilon
Proteinaholic by Dr. Garth Davis
The Mucusless Diet by Arnold Ehret (inspired Steve Jobs to take on a fruitarian diet, hence the name Apple)
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: local hero on January 19, 2016, 11:23:28 AM
If you are natural a gram per pound of lean mass is more than sufficient.


I don't agree.... I eat the same on and off... I cant imagine how much more you would shrink if you never, love to see some of the low protein monsters in action ( kinda homo )
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 11:26:43 AM

... love to see some of the low protein monsters in action ( kinda homo )

You have: Nasser el Sonbaty, Mike Mentzer, Danny Padilla, Tom Platz. Take a look at some old timers' diets and you will see a lack of obsession with protein. Bill Pearl ate 0.5 g/lb.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Grape Ape on January 19, 2016, 11:35:58 AM
Why don't they count considering all the items you listed provide protein/amino acids, and even in the case of incomplete ones, the body is quite efficient at storing and recycling amino acids and even ones from our own muscle tissue?

There have always been men and still are those who have great mass and strength who do not go by the played-out, unscientific recommendation of one gram of bro-tein per pound or more.

I didn't say they didn't count.

I said I didn't count them.

For no reason, other than I didn't want to.

And, I only posted that I didn't do it to see who would respond to it like you did.  It's not like this hasn't been discussed 1000x times here.  Best legs in bodybuilding and how much protein......
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 19, 2016, 11:37:08 AM
Too bad the people you listed did not follow higher protein diets, they could have all done better as good as they were.

Still not pic from you though, huh pussy boy? Didn't think so... The "excuse" of being anonomous is bullshit. Just a mirror selfie, doN't need to see your ugly ass face anyway.

Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Henda on January 19, 2016, 11:41:16 AM
You cannot use the exception to prove the rule, Just because a few professional bodybuilders with way above average genetics MAY have ate low protein dosent mean we all can, they are the minority just amongst the pros never mind the population as a whole.

Simple trial and error will show anyone that a higher protein intake is very beneficial, despite what some wanker says in his book or crackhead Mike mentzer thought up as he ran about naked who we know is full of shit and didn't even train the way he preached.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 11:44:47 AM
Too bad the people you listed did not follow higher protein diets, they could have all done better as good as they were.

Still not pic from you though, huh pussy boy? Didn't think so... The "excuse" of being anonomous is bullshit. Just a mirror selfie, doN't need to see your ugly ass face anyway.



The excuse of being a flaming tough guy behind a computer screen without the risk of verbal and/or physical confrontation is the real bitch move, especially when not even confronted initially on this board. You just got into a huge crybaby hissy fit over a statement about, of all things, dietary habits, typical of the lost and confused gym bitch who believes people should watch their p's and q's around him because he goes to a fucking gym.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 11:47:00 AM
You cannot use the exception to prove the rule, Just because a few professional bodybuilders with way above average genetics MAY have ate low protein dosent mean we all can, they are the minority just amongst the pros never mind the population as a whole.

Simple trial and error will show anyone that a higher protein intake is very beneficial, despite what some wanker says in his book or crackhead Mike mentzer thought up as he ran about naked who we know is full of shit and didn't even train the way he preached.

And you happen to know the intakes of every individual who lifts. How did you get this ability and insight? I mean, they MAY have eaten higher amounts as well.

Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Henda on January 19, 2016, 11:49:08 AM
And you happen to know the intakes of every individual who lifts. How did you get this ability and insight? I mean, they MAY have eaten higher amounts as well.



Stupid childish response that I cannot be bothered to debate.
Fuck you
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 19, 2016, 11:49:14 AM
The protein obsession started with the early Weider and Hoffman bodybuilding magazines. It gave them some snake oil to sell and promote.

When I finally started making real money at 24 so I could afford any supplement I desired. I used all of them. I had all the various containers that I would consume like a mad scientist. I was in amazing fitness shape if I can say so myself. I'm pretty sure now that all the supplements contributed nothing to that. It's just psychologically addicting in the fact that some where there is some insecurity that I could be wrong. Maybe all those tubs of protein and pills did make a difference? I am finally down to a really cheap multivitamin and tub of Orgain protein powder that I just use immediately after a weight workout. I just might get rid of everything.

Have you ever met someone who was sick because of a certified vitamin deficiency? I know it happens but I don't personally know of anyone.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 11:54:34 AM
The protein obsession started with the early Weider and Hoffman bodybuilding magazines. It gave them some snake oil to sell and promote.

When I finally started making real money at 24 so I could afford any supplement I desired. I used all of them. I had all the various containers that I would consume like a mad scientist. I was in amazing fitness shape if I can say so myself. I'm pretty sure now that all the supplements contributed nothing to that. It's just psychologically addicting in the fact that some where there is some insecurity that I could be wrong. Maybe all those tubs of protein and pills did make a difference? I am finally down to a really cheap multivitamin and tub of Orgain protein powder that I just use immediately after a weight workout. I just might get rid of everything.

Have you ever met someone who was sick because of a certified vitamin deficiency? I know it happens but I don't personally know of anyone.

Yes, several, considering my line of work. But amongst ordinary people outside of work, NONE, unless they had a disease  making vitamin metabolism impaired.

Speaking of protein, a protein deficiency is pretty much impossible so long as someone eats enough calories on a diet with good food. choices.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: kreator on January 19, 2016, 11:56:10 AM
you only need enough protein
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 19, 2016, 11:57:29 AM
The excuse of being a flaming tough guy behind a computer screen without the risk of verbal and/or physical confrontation is the real bitch move, especially when not even confronted initially on this board. You just got into a huge crybaby hissy fit over a statement about, of all things, dietary habits, typical of the lost and confused gym bitch who believes people should watch their p's and q's around him because he goes to a fucking gym.

Just prove me wrong man, prove a pic of yourself, this is your chance. This has nothing to do with being tough, not my fault you feel intimidated here. Just calling you out for the fool you are and you feel threatened.

Yawn, goodbye now...
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Grape Ape on January 19, 2016, 11:58:00 AM
Speaking of protein, a protein deficiency is pretty much impossible so long as someone eats enough calories on a diet with good food. choices.

This makes sense for normal eating.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 12:10:15 PM
Just prove me wrong man, prove a pic of yourself, this is your chance. This has nothing to do with being tough, not my fault you feel intimidated here. Just calling you out for the fool you are and you feel threatened.

Yawn, goodbye now...

Take care.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Griffith on January 19, 2016, 12:12:02 PM
Don't we just need to have a surplus of a few hundred calories over our maintenance level to build muscle...?

This is what Mike Mentzer argued in his Heavy Duty diet.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: OB1 on January 19, 2016, 12:13:58 PM
The protein obsession started with the early Weider and Hoffman bodybuilding magazines. It gave them some snake oil to sell and promote.

This.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: liberalismo on January 19, 2016, 12:28:38 PM
People always talk about specific amounts of protein necessary but no one ever posts scientific studies showing how much protein a person needs per lb of body mass.

In truth, calculating 1 gram per KG of body mass makes no sense. Fat doesn't use protein. Muscle does. A better usage would be 1 gram per KG of LEAN bodymass. I.E. after your fat is gone what you weigh.

But people consuming 200+ grams of protein really aren't helping themselves. There's no scientific evidence supporting the claim you need that much protein. People just eat it because they don't know better and they think it works for them. In reality they're just wasting calories. Unused protein breaks down in the kidneys and causes damage.

http://www.livescience.com/8086-protein-supplement-myth-revealed-body-work.html (http://www.livescience.com/8086-protein-supplement-myth-revealed-body-work.html)
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 19, 2016, 12:35:13 PM
People always talk about specific amounts of protein necessary but no one ever posts scientific studies showing how much protein a person needs per lb of body mass.

In truth, calculating 1 gram per KG of body mass makes no sense. Fat doesn't use protein. Muscle does. A better usage would be 1 gram per KG of LEAN bodymass. I.E. after your fat is gone what you weigh.

But people consuming 200+ grams of protein really aren't helping themselves. There's no scientific evidence supporting the claim you need that much protein. People just eat it because they don't know better and they think it works for them. In reality they're just wasting calories. Unused protein breaks down in the kidneys and causes damage.

http://www.livescience.com/8086-protein-supplement-myth-revealed-body-work.html (http://www.livescience.com/8086-protein-supplement-myth-revealed-body-work.html)

Gonna take a fuck load of protein to damage kidneys in healthy people. You speak of bodybuilders not knowing exact amounts to take yet you can't even provide an exact number of protein it takes to harm a person.

Great post man!
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: cephissus on January 19, 2016, 01:25:24 PM
From 100 to 500 grams a day, I never 'noticed' a single difference.

'Noticed' feeling 'stronger' with more protein... Ffs, how can you isolate 'protein' out of the 500 billion other processes that your life consists of.

Do you live in a laboratory?
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Henda on January 19, 2016, 01:51:40 PM
From 100 to 500 grams a day, I never 'noticed' a single difference.

'Noticed' feeling 'stronger' with more protein... Ffs, how can you isolate 'protein' out of the 500 billion other processes that your life consists of.

Do you live in a laboratory?
So you not noticing a difference could not have been due to 500 billion other processes either or does that only apply to us idiots who feel stronger on more protein?

Eating disorders is a woman's problem and you got one
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 02:01:14 PM
People always talk about specific amounts of protein necessary but no one ever posts scientific studies showing how much protein a person needs per lb of body mass.



Largely because the science is all over the freaking place, with experiments being done with very low intakes, down to 20 to 30 grams, all the way up to 150 and 3 g/kg.

So no one knows exactly.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: MAXX on January 19, 2016, 02:05:09 PM
depends on several different factors... you cant say everyone needs 1 g/ lbs. That's the simplification and reasoning of a complete moron...lean mass, training styles, metabolism, drugs, all these factors come in to play...

for the average chump 200 grams may be good enough for optimal gains

for a larger gymrat with some respectable mass 300+ grams is not unlikely.

and for the that ifbb massmonsters 500+ grams of protein is not unlikely either
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Tha Grim Lifter on January 19, 2016, 02:06:30 PM
Eating huge amounts of protein is like Religion. It's been around so long everyone believes it.

What OldTimer said above is correct (for once  :D). Weider and Hoffman started it because before that all they made money off was Barbell Sets and Magazines and a Barbell Set can last forever. They needed turnover and they got rich off the supplements. It's been bullshit for 70 years. Do you really think Weider knows what he's talking about? He was in anything to make a buck and said whatever he needed to in order to do that.

First two years I trained I gained the most muscle (as anyone would) and wasn't eating excess protein. After that I started and it made zero difference it was just paranoia from magazines. Ever since I've dropped it down I notice no loss in muscle, I feel better not eating all the fucking time.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: cephissus on January 19, 2016, 03:57:28 PM
So you not noticing a difference could not have been due to 500 billion other processes either or does that only apply to us idiots who feel stronger on more protein?

That's exactly my point

Anything else ???
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 19, 2016, 04:03:40 PM
Gonna ask the exact same question I did earlier.

Pics of your so called proof or just fucking shut the fuck up man. Since seeing White Widows pics, all you babble mouths preaching superiority with your "methods" can suck it.

Post pics to prove it or just appear like total bullshitters.

Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 04:10:19 PM
Gonna ask the exact same question I did earlier.

Pics of your so called proof or just fucking shut the fuck up man. Since seeing White Widows pics, all you babble mouths preaching superiority with your "methods" can suck it.

Post pics to prove it or just appear like total bullshitters.



I never said my "method" is superior. All I said is that some today have a protein obsession and some recommendations are overblown. Being I post on normal boards with pics, showing pics here would ruin anonymity.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 19, 2016, 04:19:00 PM
I never said my "method" is superior. All I said is that some today have a protein obsession and some recommendations are overblown. Being I post on normal boards with pics, showing pics here would ruin anonymity.

True, some have a protein obsession. But the argument of being anonomous just does not hold ground. Think I showed my ugly mug in my pics?

Hell no, I'm not crazy, lol... You can end up in animated gifs here for a very long time after, lol..

All I can tell you is if 150 grams worked for me, I'd do it. Was flat ass broke most my life, spent a good time trying to see the min amount required to save money and like most, it comes down to 1gr/lb bodyweight.

I'll never understand why some try to piss in the face of what works for like 80% plus of people by recommending undershooting one of the most important factors to get size and it's protein.

Or maybe you guys just have better genetics? Dunno.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 19, 2016, 05:14:09 PM
True, some have a protein obsession. But the argument of being anonomous just does not hold ground. Think I showed my ugly mug in my pics?

Hell no, I'm not crazy, lol... You can end up in animated gifs here for a very long time after, lol..

All I can tell you is if 150 grams worked for me, I'd do it. Was flat ass broke most my life, spent a good time trying to see the min amount required to save money and like most, it comes down to 1gr/lb bodyweight.

I'll never understand why some try to piss in the face of what works for like 80% plus of people by recommending undershooting one of the most important factors to get size and it's protein.

Or maybe you guys just have better genetics? Dunno.

Finally, a civil post. Maybe I killed you with kindness.

I'll take this.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Ropo on January 19, 2016, 11:48:35 PM
What needs fixing are your dormant brain cells to post such crap.

Well, gram per pound just happens to be a bullshit: "the RDA is 0.8 grams per kilogram of lean bodyweight (U.S. Food and Nutrition Board, 1980) One of the top researchers in this field, Dr Peter Lemon, stated in a recent review paper that, "the RDA for those engaged in strength training should be about 1.7 - 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body mass per day". Dr Lemon came to this conclusion after citing several studies (Fern, 1991, Tarnopolsky et al., 1992) which used amounts of protein ranging from 1.3 - 3.3 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight. "

As you may realize, they use "gram per kilogram", not gram per pound, why? Well, what would be a reason to mix up imperial and metric units? Stupidity, which is the strongest force in this sport  ;D
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BlackMetallic on January 20, 2016, 12:02:30 AM
One only has 3 macros to choose from. Well four if you include alcohol which burns off pretty slow

If one is trying to stay lean they are probably gonna try and limit carb intake and keep their fat intake low to moderate. Unless they are doing keto then that means even less/zero carbs.

Which leaves protein.


Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: _aj_ on January 20, 2016, 03:35:58 AM
Finally, a civil post. Maybe I killed you with kindness.

I'll take this.

I think he burned a blunt before posting. It is possible and actually even easy to post a physique pic whilst remaining anonymous (note avatar). So that excuse is complete BS. That leaves looking like shit as the likely alternate reason.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 20, 2016, 03:53:21 AM
I think he burned a blunt before posting. It is possible and actually even easy to post a physique pic whilst remaining anonymous (note avatar). So that excuse is complete BS. That leaves looking like shit as the likely alternate reason.

I can say confidently that if posted one, then the whole "see I told you so, you look like shit" ploy would fall on its face. And like I give a fuck about winning over the hearts of the great deal of winners here, a place I go to for shits and giggles. I don't take this board seriously or even in a way in which I would care to pal around with most. On one of the more serious boards on the net, I've actually made real-life friends.

And if my take on protein intake is ridiculous, then others don't have to follow it.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Yamcha on January 20, 2016, 04:00:16 AM
I can say confidently that if posted one, then the whole "see I told you so, you look like shit" ploy would fall on its face. And like I give a fuck about winning over the hearts of the great deal of winners here, a place I go to for shits and giggles. I don't take this board seriously or even in a way in which I would care to pal around with most. On one of the more serious boards on the net, I've actually made real-life friends.

And if my take on protein intake is ridiculous, then others don't have to follow it.

hence your 150 grams of protein post.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: oldschoolfan on January 20, 2016, 04:11:13 AM
mentzer idnt eat alot of protein.

i have his original heavy duty journal the one he did in 1979

i would say  less than 100 grams per day
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on January 20, 2016, 05:44:49 AM
hence your 150 grams of protein post.


Oh boy, you got me. I also never made that specific rec.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Tha Grim Lifter on January 20, 2016, 05:49:00 AM
Anyone saying 'You definitely need 1 gram per pound' blah blah blah I've eaten up to 2 grams per pound and now a lot less and it doesn't make a difference. Obviously there's some minimum requirement but we've all been fed so much bullshit no-one is game to try it. Try 50 grams of protein a day and see if you lose muscle. Not all the water a permabulker will hold, actual muscle.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Hulkotron on January 20, 2016, 06:22:28 AM
One of the great questions of our time
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Griffith on January 20, 2016, 10:47:00 AM
mentzer idnt eat alot of protein.

i have his original heavy duty journal the one he did in 1979

i would say  less than 100 grams per day

Yes, he said you need to calculate your maintenance calories.

Then increase them another 300-500 calories for muscle growth.

Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 20, 2016, 11:03:34 AM
I think he burned a blunt before posting. It is possible and actually even easy to post a physique pic whilst remaining anonymous (note avatar). So that excuse is complete BS. That leaves looking like shit as the likely alternate reason.

 :D
I've noticed how my posts pre and post smoking are much different... And true what you say about the pic, it's not complicated and a wonderful way to back or not back ones "value as a poster" as I value the posts from those who walk the walk. It's so much easier said than done this whole lifestyle.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: OB1 on January 20, 2016, 11:32:57 AM
:D
I've noticed how my posts pre and post smoking are much different... And true what you say about the pic, it's not complicated and a wonderful way to back or not back ones "value as a poster" as I value the posts from those who walk the walk. It's so much easier said than done this whole lifestyle.

This one is post smoking I guess.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: ritch on January 20, 2016, 11:53:11 AM
This one is post smoking I guess.


Was just waking up actually, am normally very grumpy and my most negative posts are done then!

Guess the nice sunny day is why...
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Griffith on January 21, 2016, 12:56:27 AM
So if your calories stay the same and you up the protein then you will gain more muscle?  ???
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: rocket on January 21, 2016, 01:38:06 AM
Really? So for instance, you never felt stronger, weaker, bigger, smaller etc. depending on your protein intake?

I feel weaker if I eat less meals, but I can't separate the protein from the other nutrients in that data.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Julio Ceasar on January 21, 2016, 11:04:05 AM
im on 2700kcal/day. I cant spend it on protein, I need the fucking carbs. Now I can train, get the pump. feeling strong...while losing weight!

Training on low carbs high protein work shit! Proetin dosent do jack shit for your body. Its only hard to break down and get stuck in your fucking stomach!

Carb is king! It give you energi, it make u strong. Proein make you weak and no energy!

80-90% carbs 10-20% protein.


Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: Kim Jong Bob on January 21, 2016, 11:07:22 AM
im on 2700kcal/day. I cant spend it on protein, I need the fucking carbs. Now I can train, get the pump. feeling strong...while losing weight!

Training on low carbs high protein work shit! Proetin dosent do jack shit for your body. Its only hard to break down and get stuck in your fucking stomach!

Carb is king! It give you energi, it make u strong. Proein make you weak and no energy!

80-90% carbs 10-20% protein.



i guess we all know now why you are a twink
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: _aj_ on January 21, 2016, 12:05:51 PM
i guess we all know now why you are a twink

Lal
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: OB1 on January 21, 2016, 12:33:56 PM
So if your calories stay the same and you up the protein then you will gain more muscle?  ???

Nope.
Workout intensity sets the bar.
Given enough rest and nutrients the muscles will grow.
They won't grow bigger because you eat more protein.

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: iwannabejacked on February 17, 2016, 01:20:28 PM
From 100 to 500 grams a day, I never 'noticed' a single difference.

'Noticed' feeling 'stronger' with more protein... Ffs, how can you isolate 'protein' out of the 500 billion other processes that your life consists of.

Do you live in a laboratory?
You probably got stronger on higher amounts of protein just because you were eating more calories, not because you were gaining any additional muscle compared to when you were eating 100 grams.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: MAXX on February 17, 2016, 03:14:45 PM
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/4354297.jpg)
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: MAXX on February 17, 2016, 03:35:20 PM
 :( ???
















(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/4354552.jpg)
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: cephissus on February 17, 2016, 05:05:45 PM
Oh brother, if Julio stepped on the gas you meatheads would be worshipping the ground he walks on.
Title: Re: How much protein is really needed
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 17, 2016, 07:45:46 PM
Industry is full of mentally ill people. Guys like Bob Chick think walking at a speed of 3.0 on the treadmill for 30 to 45 min is getting them into shape. They even have the balls to call it "cardio". They're basically burning the equivalent of a small apple. Yet people told them they have to do it to get into shape. So they do it. If they miss a day of the so called cardio, they will convince themselves they're fatter. It's the same with the super high protein intake. If they don't get in 60 to 80grams of protein 6 to 7 times a day pre-contest, they will convince themselves that they're shrinking and feel flat. lol