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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 11:01:11 AM

Title: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 11:01:11 AM
Occasionally I see the tag "anti American" placed on a politician.

What does that exactly mean?

Plz don't give a lame ambiguous statement like "they hate America"

Be specific, thanks.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2016, 11:16:14 AM
anytime there's a (D) next to their name.


HTH.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 11:30:23 AM
Anyone who is a 9/11 Troofer.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2016, 11:42:43 AM
Anyone who is a 9/11 Troofer.

Coach Pete Carroll.   
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 11:44:40 AM
Coach Pete Carroll.   

If Coach Pete Carroll is a 9/11 Troofer, then yes he is anti-American.  But given how much you lie and embellish, I doubt he embraces that screwball anti-American conspiracy theory. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 11:47:35 AM
How is a 9/11 CTer anti American exactly?
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2016, 11:48:29 AM
How is a 9/11 CTer anti American exactly?

If you question the US govt official story on anything (except for UE rates, benghazi, or anything 2009-2016), you are anti-american.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 11:51:22 AM
How is a 9/11 CTer anti American exactly?

Believing the United States government conspired with foreign terrorists (who unquestionably hate Americans) to murder American civilians is anti-American. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 12:09:42 PM
Believing the United States government conspired with foreign terrorists (who unquestionably hate Americans) to murder American civilians is anti-American. 

 Believing the government did or lied about "X" doesn't mean you hate America.  it means you don't trust the government.   The terrorist yes, because they intend to do harm.  A Truther, no matter how crazy or stupid, hasn't demonstrated the intent to do harm,they instead want to reveal the truth they believe to be. 

A person might hate the government because they believe it's not what it was intended to be, but again that doesn't mean they hate America. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 12:12:50 PM
Believing the government did or lied about "X" doesn't mean you hate America.  it means you don't trust the government.   The terrorist yes, because they intend to do harm.  A Truther, no matter how crazy or stupid, hasn't demonstrated the intent to do harm,they instead want to reveal the truth they believe to be.  

A person might hate the government because they believe it's not what it was intended to be, but again that doesn't mean they hate America.  

We have a difference of opinion.  I don't give anyone a pass who pushes a theory that involves the partnering of the government and civilians with the terrorist savages who plot (and actually carry out) the murder of innocents.  It's also insulting to the family members of victims who were murdered.  It's way beyond stupid.  
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 12:23:44 PM
We have a difference of opinion.  I don't give anyone a pass who pushes a theory that involves the partnering of the government and civilians with the terrorist savages who plot (and actually carry out) the murder of innocents.  It's also insulting the family members of victims who were murdered.  It's way beyond stupid. 

I agree, but that doesn't mean they hate America.  It's just means they lack critical thinking skills and are easily manipulated by causation and correlation fallacies.  They yearn for a simple explanation to a complex tragedy that allow their feelings a type of closure.  It's easier to accept fantasy type explanation to an unexpected horrific event.  The truth is often too intense and simple for them to process.   

At the core for most of these 9/11 CTers is a deep patriotic sense of duty to expose the truth and free the country they love  from the lie that traps it. 

That's not hating America. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 12:26:06 PM
I agree, but that doesn't mean they hate America.  It's just means they lack critical thinking skills and are easily manipulated by causation and correlation fallacies.  They yearn for a simple explanation to a complex tragedy that allow their feelings a type of closure.  It's easier to accept fantasy type explanation to an unexpected horrific event.  The truth is often too intense and simple for them to process.   

At the core for most of these 9/11 CTers is a deep patriotic sense of duty to expose the truth and free the country they love  from the lie that traps it. 

That's not hating America. 

I agree they lack critical thinking skills and are easily manipulated. 

I don't agree at all that they are acting out of some deep sense of patriotism.  And you don't have to "hate" America to be anti-American. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 12:32:55 PM
I agree they lack critical thinking skills and are easily manipulated. 

I don't agree at all that they are acting out of some deep sense of patriotism.  And you don't have to "hate" America to be anti-American. 

So then what defines "American"?

I think you have to take into account the intentions of the founding fathers combined with the evolution of our constitution, federal government,and political system. 

Then ask if these "entities or individuals" are against any of those core areas. 

Don't see Truthers doing that. 

Don't see US politicians doing that.  I am sure some can be pointed out.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 12:42:18 PM
So then what defines "American"?

I think you have to take into account the intentions of the founding fathers combined with the evolution of our constitution, federal government,and political system. 

Then ask if these "entities or individuals" are against any of those core areas. 

Don't see Truthers doing that. 

Don't see US politicians doing that.  I am sure some can be pointed out.

I'll define it in the negative, for the context of this discussion:  an anti-American is someone who does not support American values and/or partners or supports those with anti-American values.  9/11 Troofers fall squarely within that definition.   

The Constitution has not evolved.  Not sure our federal government and political system have either.  Devolved maybe.   :-\
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2016, 01:16:07 PM
If Coach Pete Carroll is a 9/11 Troofer, then yes he is anti-American.  But given how much you lie and embellish, I doubt he embraces that screwball anti-American conspiracy theory.  

Your ignorance is excusable.  

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/397595/pete-carroll-isnt-shying-away-his-911-truther-reputation-andrew-johnson
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2016, 01:17:54 PM
Believing the United States government conspired with foreign terrorists (who unquestionably hate Americans) to murder American civilians is anti-American. 

I read on getbig all the time that Obama is conspiring with ISIS to hurt america.

Trump said yesterday that Obama maybe doesn't want to defeat isis... "Maybe Obama doesn't want to defeat ISIS"
http://www.wnd.com/2016/02/trump-to-savage-maybe-obama-doesnt-want-to-defeat-isis/

Is Trump now considered anti-American?   Of course not, you only use that label when "the left" does it, not when someone who USED to be of the left says it. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 01:24:03 PM
Your ignorance is excusable.  

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/397595/pete-carroll-isnt-shying-away-his-911-truther-reputation-andrew-johnson

Geeze Louise you are dumb.  What part of that story has Carroll embracing your anti-American screwball 9/11 conspiracy theory?   
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 01:25:11 PM
I read on getbig all the time that Obama is conspiring with ISIS to hurt america.

Trump said yesterday that Obama maybe doesn't want to defeat isis... "Maybe Obama doesn't want to defeat ISIS"
http://www.wnd.com/2016/02/trump-to-savage-maybe-obama-doesnt-want-to-defeat-isis/

Is Trump now considered anti-American?   Of course not, you only use that label when "the left" does it, not when someone who USED to be of the left says it. 

Trump is not anti-American.  9/11 Troofers are anti-American.  Wear your stupid theory proudly.  Bunch of friggin screwballs. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2016, 01:29:49 PM
Trump is not anti-American.  9/11 Troofers are anti-American.  Wear your stupid theory proudly.  Bunch of friggin screwballs. 

YOu are the one who said "Believing the United States government conspired with foreign terrorists (who unquestionably hate Americans) to murder American civilians is anti-America"

If a president sworn to stop ISIS (foreign terrorists) knowingly orders our military to conduct actions which purposely don't defeat isis, then by your own definition, he's unamerican.

Trump accused obama of it.  He accused a US president of not wanting to do his sworn duty.

Dos Equis, please answer this question (if you dare) - Is OBAMA anti-American?
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 01:34:30 PM
YOu are the one who said "Believing the United States government conspired with foreign terrorists (who unquestionably hate Americans) to murder American civilians is anti-America"

If a president sworn to stop ISIS (foreign terrorists) knowingly orders our military to conduct actions which purposely don't defeat isis, then by your own definition, he's unamerican.

Trump accused obama of it.  He accused a US president of not wanting to do his sworn duty.

Dos Equis, please answer this question (if you dare) - Is OBAMA anti-American?

Where is the quote from Pete Carroll embracing the U.S. government conspiring with foreign terrorists to attack us on 9/11? 

I don't take you seriously.  You know that.  You are a screwball. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 02:15:23 PM
I'll define it in the negative, for the context of this discussion:  an anti-American is someone who does not support American values and/or partners or supports those with anti-American values.  9/11 Troofers fall squarely within that definition.   



don't see the connection that falls squarely on truthers.

How do truthers not support american values when they simply don't believe the main stream view of what happened on 9/11?

How does a truther partner or support terrorist organizations when all they are saying is they didn't do 9/11?


Quote

The Constitution has not evolved.  Not sure our federal government and political system have either.  Devolved maybe.   :-\

Yeah it has.  1 area is amendments.

I can see, depending upon your POV that it can be claimed it has devolved but we  should be able to agree that it isn't purely what it was when it was written.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 02:19:40 PM
Your ignorance is excusable.  

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/397595/pete-carroll-isnt-shying-away-his-911-truther-reputation-andrew-johnson

looks like a good spin job and dis honest reporting.  I skimmed it, is there a direct quote of Pete Carroll saying he believes 9/11 was a conspiracy where the US government conducted a false flag op or what ever?
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: headhuntersix on February 09, 2016, 02:33:10 PM
Whatever...anything that goes against the founding of this country....in a word the Constitution. CT's believing in them or not may be weird but not un American...believe whatever you want. If you want what un American looks like in contemporary  society..basically everything the current dem party stands for.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 02:49:48 PM
Whatever...anything that goes against the founding of this country....in a word the Constitution. CT's believing in them or not may be weird but not un American...believe whatever you want. If you want what un American looks like in contemporary  society..basically everything the current dem party stands for.

That's what i want shown exactly.  Or some real good examples.

Because i don't really see that.  I see a difference of opinion as to how to solve certain problems like unemployment, poverty, social unreast, etc.  Sometimes the repubs do the same stuff as the dems. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: headhuntersix on February 09, 2016, 03:04:01 PM
Dems...higher taxes
Dems...strong central gov
Dems...social engineering (gays - military/gay marriage/women in infantry
Dems...activist judges into race/gender based legal decisions
Dems...anti states rights ie gay marriage
Dems...anti 2nd amendment IE Heller vs DC
Dems...anti religion and misinterpretation of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Dems...affirmative action as opposed to individual merit

This is where the current party is
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2016, 03:12:23 PM
Where is the quote from Pete Carroll

I never come out and call you things, but you're majorly uninformed on this issue.

A retired US general who was at the pentagon on 9/11 came out to the seahawks facility, and Carroll badgered him so hard with his conspiracy theories that the hero actually had to flee to his car and leave.  He was rude and disrespectful.

it's one thing to believe what you want to believe - but you NEVER come at a retired military man with that.  Just classless.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 03:23:00 PM
So this is second hand info with no quote?
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 03:35:11 PM
Dems...higher taxes
Dems...strong central gov
Dems...social engineering (gays - military/gay marriage/women in infantry
Dems...activist judges into race/gender based legal decisions
Dems...anti states rights ie gay marriage
Dems...anti 2nd amendment IE Heller vs DC
Dems...anti religion and misinterpretation of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Dems...affirmative action as opposed to individual merit

This is where the current party is

Hard for me to see any of that as anti-american.  Difference of opinion yes. 

Higher taxes?  that's a difference of opinion on how to solve a problem

Strong Central government?  That was lost after the civil war.  It has continued to be a debate since then. Its a much different world than 250 years ago.

Social engineering, Race, gay rights, gender stuff?  equal rights and freedom for all = Very American  Do they sometimes go to far?  yes.

Anti second amendment.  while its a core tenet of America i don't think being against it means you are against all the core tenets that better defines america.
 
Don't understand your charge on religion.

I agree AA is dated and in many cases unfair.  I believe in Individual merit, I also at the same time believe things can be skewed to make the playing field too uneven and sometimes the feds need to step in to level it.  I don't always agree with what they have done.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: 240 is Back on February 09, 2016, 04:08:29 PM
http://deadspin.com/is-pete-carroll-a-9-11-truther-513149713
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: headhuntersix on February 09, 2016, 04:11:27 PM
On religion...its not freedom from religion, its freedom of religion. The dems go out of their way to remove crosses and other religious symbols...mostly Christian from everywhere they can. I can cut and paste till I explode but it true. As far as social engineering. Its not the job of the central gov to dictate those things. If Mass wants gays to marry that's ok but you can't tell South Carolina they also have to allow it.  No single thing makes them or anybody anti-American...taken together packaged as over arching agenda, its very anti American.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 04:58:56 PM
don't see the connection that falls squarely on truthers.

How do truthers not support american values when they simply don't believe the main stream view of what happened on 9/11?

How does a truther partner or support terrorist organizations when all they are saying is they didn't do 9/11?


Yeah it has.  1 area is amendments.

I can see, depending upon your POV that it can be claimed it has devolved but we  should be able to agree that it isn't purely what it was when it was written.

I think you're understating what 9/11 Troofers believe.  It isn't just questioning the "official story."  It's asserting that the U.S. government and civilians secretly worked with foreign terrorists to shoot a missile into the Pentagon; to fake two plane crashes, secretly murder American citizens and dispose of their bodies; to plant bombs in the WTC to blow up innocent Americans.  Who the heck embraces that kind of crap? 

When were the majority of those amendments enacted?  The Constitution has remain largely unchanged for must of our country's history. 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 09, 2016, 05:00:01 PM
I never come out and call you things, but you're majorly uninformed on this issue.

A retired US general who was at the pentagon on 9/11 came out to the seahawks facility, and Carroll badgered him so hard with his conspiracy theories that the hero actually had to flee to his car and leave.  He was rude and disrespectful.

it's one thing to believe what you want to believe - but you NEVER come at a retired military man with that.  Just classless.

You are such a troll.  Where is the quote from Pete Carroll saying he believes the U.S. worked with foreign terrorist to attack us on 9/11? 
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 05:23:39 PM
On religion...its not freedom from religion, its freedom of religion. The dems go out of their way to remove crosses and other religious symbols...mostly Christian from everywhere they can. I can cut and paste till I explode but it true. As far as social engineering. Its not the job of the central gov to dictate those things. If Mass wants gays to marry that's ok but you can't tell South Carolina they also have to allow it.  No single thing makes them or anybody anti-American...taken together packaged as over arching agenda, its very anti American.

i see mostly atheists groups doing that.

I see the gay marriage thing and the "mass" of people not wanting it in the same vein as things like slavery.  sometimes the mass of people are just wrong.  NOTHING is forcing those poeple to live a certian life style.  Freedom for all live and let live.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 05:25:37 PM
I think you're understating what 9/11 Troofers believe.  It isn't just questioning the "official story."  It's asserting that the U.S. government and civilians secretly worked with foreign terrorists to shoot a missile into the Pentagon; to fake two plane crashes, secretly murder American citizens and dispose of their bodies; to plant bombs in the WTC to blow up innocent Americans.  Who the heck embraces that kind of crap? 
Dumb people of who some believe that America has been hijacked by evil men and they feel they need to expose it.

But not anti Americans

Quote
When were the majority of those amendments enacted?  The Constitution has remain largely unchanged for must of our country's history. 

Still yet, it was.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 05:27:15 PM
http://deadspin.com/is-pete-carroll-a-9-11-truther-513149713

is there a quote in here or is this just another waste of time?

INTEGRITY
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2016, 05:27:50 PM
On religion...its not freedom from religion, its freedom of religion. The dems go out of their way to remove crosses and other religious symbols...mostly Christian from everywhere they can. I can cut and paste till I explode but it true. As far as social engineering. Its not the job of the central gov to dictate those things. If Mass wants gays to marry that's ok but you can't tell South Carolina they also have to allow it.  No single thing makes them or anybody anti-American...taken together packaged as over arching agenda, its very anti American.

freedom of religion includes the freedom to have no religion or in other words, freedom from religion

Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Kazan on February 09, 2016, 05:58:30 PM
freedom of religion includes the freedom to have no religion or in other words, freedom from religion



Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

So what does that mean? It means .gov cannot create a religion and force you into it, or stop you from worshiping a tree if you want. Given the time when the church and the English government were intertwined, it is simple to see why this is included in the constitution.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Kazan on February 09, 2016, 05:59:43 PM
Back to the original question, IMHO not acting in the best interests of America first and foremost.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 06:04:24 PM
Back to the original question, IMHO not acting in the best interests of America first and foremost.

That's sounds good, but what makes that hard is the interpretation of best interests.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Kazan on February 09, 2016, 06:14:26 PM
That's sounds good, but what makes that hard is the interpretation of best interests.

Not making treaties that put the US at a disadvantage.
Not letting the country be infiltrated by illegals
Not spying on US citizens for no reason
Spending your whole working life in congress
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 06:27:00 PM
Not making treaties that put the US at a disadvantage.
Not letting the country be infiltrated by illegals
Not spying on US citizens for no reason
Spending your whole working life in congress

Time to get rid of the whole bunch then.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Kazan on February 09, 2016, 06:30:30 PM
Time to get rid of the whole bunch then.

Yep
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: headhuntersix on February 09, 2016, 06:41:45 PM
Well  big O you got two pages of real answers without a lot of bs....friggen getbig record. You can rest easy tonight your work is done.

Yeah..freedom from religion but now that means a war memorial offends some jackass that rolls through a town square once a year.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Pray_4_War on February 09, 2016, 07:00:39 PM
Occasionally I see the tag "anti American" placed on a politician.

What does that exactly mean?

Plz don't give a lame ambiguous statement like "they hate America"

Be specific, thanks.

A picture is worth a thousand words

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/451007105391022080/iu1f7brY_400x400.png)
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: Straw Man on February 09, 2016, 07:32:16 PM
Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

So what does that mean? It means .gov cannot create a religion and force you into it, or stop you from worshiping a tree if you want. Given the time when the church and the English government were intertwined, it is simple to see why this is included in the constitution.

exactly

It also can't force you to believe in any religion at all...so it protect the right to have no religious belief at all thus the freedom FROM religion
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: OzmO on February 09, 2016, 11:46:34 PM
Well  big O you got two pages of real answers without a lot of bs....friggen getbig record. You can rest easy tonight your work is done.

Yeah..freedom from religion but now that means a war memorial offends some jackass that rolls through a town square once a year.

Yeah its pretty cool.  We occasionally get productive dialog and debate here.  what's also interesting is how 2 sides can agree on something but still fight over BS stuff like ideological stereotypes.   

I am very anti organized religion, but none of the crap offends me on public buildings.  Considering the many problems that could be helped or solved that the money used instead to sue state and city governments to remove religious stuff from public monuments and buildings is what offends me.
Title: Re: What is "anti American"?
Post by: headhuntersix on February 10, 2016, 08:50:29 AM
I'm the same way.....not a big organized religion guy...but hate the folks who are so offended by bs memorials and crosses etc