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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: falco on February 15, 2016, 06:06:56 AM
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...making it shut down earlier than people who don't workout, bodybuilding style?
Just like eating too much sugars may shut down your pancreas?
I bodybuild since a teenager and have experienced during two decades of training several periods of apparent test production shut down. Not related to steroid use. It happened after months of consistent training and inherent high cortisol levels. I have no data to backup this except regular blood work (that doesn't include testosterone levels) where everything was normal.
I'm 39 and started TRT a couple of months ago, because last couple of years i have been dragging myself everyday, no energy, barely keeping up with my desk job and family needs. Working out again was a mirage. My 70 yo father had more stamina than me.
Ideas?
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Sadly I think it is. Going to the gym everyday is out of the question. You hit a roadblock for muscle size and if you keep pushing you just wear yourself out. Better to maintain muscle and spend more time working on your diet.
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in my opinion a restrictive diet can cause endocrine issues
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in my opinion a restrictive diet can cause endocrine issues
This or not absorbing vitamins. I have trouble with B vitamin deficiency.
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as long as your not over training I dont think so.
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It could be chronic overtraining. Not taking enough maintenance breaks from diets, not doing periodization, etc.
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If you love training enough, you will overtrain, even not wanting to... :-\
Everytime i trained more consistent i got morning hot flashes, just like menopausal women.
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If you love training enough, you will overtrain, even not wanting to... :-\
Everytime i trained more consistent i got morning hot flashes, just like menopausal women.
For the first time in a long time, I'm really feeling my age in the gym today. I probably need a few days off. I am not good at "days off"
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If you love training enough, you will overtrain, even not wanting to... :-\
Everytime i trained more consistent i got morning hot flashes, just like menopausal women.
Training can definitely become an addiction. Everything works better when I train. I've noticed scary stuff, like I can think quicker, my memory improves, my mind can keep going for longer and I find more creative solutions to complicated problems.
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Quite the opposite. Natural bbing is the fountain of youth.
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...making it shut down earlier than people who don't workout, bodybuilding style?
Just like eating too much sugars may shut down your pancreas?
I bodybuild since a teenager and have experienced during two decades of training several periods of apparent test production shut down. Not related to steroid use. It happened after months of consistent training and inherent high cortisol levels. I have no data to backup this except regular blood work (that doesn't include testosterone levels) where everything was normal.
I'm 39 and started TRT a couple of months ago, because last couple of years i have been dragging myself everyday, no energy, barely keeping up with my desk job and family needs. Working out again was a mirage. My 70 yo father had more stamina than me.
Ideas?
Succesful natural training, is only ok if ... you're unemployed or making a cool job, no family, no children, no stress. My best year are behind me, when i was 20/25, living at my parent's house, working only the weekend, no tax to pay, no children.
It's too hard to follow a strict diet, train 5 time a week, cardio, relaxing, when you're natural qnd got a full life outside the gym.
If you try this you'll end like a zombie, a no life.
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Depressing thread, and not sure about endocrine system
But yeah, I feel like utter shit after a decade and a half in the gym. Trying to take a step back and find a 'healthy' way to incorporate exercise, eating, etc. into the rest of my life.
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If you love training enough, you will overtrain, even not wanting to... :-\
Everytime i trained more consistent i got morning hot flashes, just like menopausal women.
I love family. I love friends. I don't use the word "love" for training. I like it. Having said that might I suggest that you give Mentzer's final version of HIT a try?
I am on my third week of doing just that and due to circumstances beyond my control it has been 8 days since I last trained. Tomorrow morning I shall go at it and see just how I feel and do. I train to positive failure and do slow controlled reps up and down. I sometimes do 2 or 3 rest/pause reps at the end of a set but that's mostly because I train alone and don't have someone to help me do a couple of forced reps. I normally train every 48 to 72 hours but a minor family emergency made that an impossibility this past week, so 192 hours it is this time.
If I do at least as well I shall be happy. If I do better, I shall be happy. If I don't as well as I did before, I won't sweat it and will just return to my normal regimen between sessions. Life is good. It can be better when you exercise.
Good luck.
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Haven't had a single negative experience ever. Maybe its your genetics.
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as long as your not over training I dont think so.
This is correct.
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Should be no problem when given enough rest.
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Haven't had a single negative experience ever. Maybe its your genetics.
What about the absence of any appreciable gains, do you see that as a positive? ;D
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What about the absence of any appreciable gains, do you see that as a positive? ;D
As a lifetime natural you can't expect to gain muscle forever. Same thing is true with a roider even.
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...making it shut down earlier than people who don't workout, bodybuilding style?
Just like eating too much sugars may shut down your pancreas?
I bodybuild since a teenager and have experienced during two decades of training several periods of apparent test production shut down. Not related to steroid use. It happened after months of consistent training and inherent high cortisol levels. I have no data to backup this except regular blood work (that doesn't include testosterone levels) where everything was normal.
I'm 39 and started TRT a couple of months ago, because last couple of years i have been dragging myself everyday, no energy, barely keeping up with my desk job and family needs. Working out again was a mirage. My 70 yo father had more stamina than me.
Ideas?
You have to take a week off every two months or so and sometimes take a few extra days off when you feeling burned out.
And when I go on holiday I don't bother about training.
Makes no difference in the long-run
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You have to take a week off every two months or so and sometimes take a few extra days off when you feeling burned out.
And when I go on holiday I don't bother about training.
Makes no difference in the long-run
Those extra days off are very important.
Don't skip on those.
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Those extra days off are very important.
Don't skip on those.
Sometimes the difference between an injury or not.
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Depressing thread, and not sure about endocrine system
But yeah, I feel like utter shit after a decade and a half in the gym. Trying to take a step back and find a 'healthy' way to incorporate exercise, eating, etc. into the rest of my life.
Steroids
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As a lifetime natural you can't expect to gain muscle forever. Same thing is true with a roider even.
I was taking the piss, but seeing as how you took my response seriously. At least the roider can cycle on and off and ride the high of rapid gains. Admittedly cycling off isn't so fun but he can always look forward to his next blast.
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...making it shut down earlier than people who don't workout, bodybuilding style?
Just like eating too much sugars may shut down your pancreas?
I bodybuild since a teenager and have experienced during two decades of training several periods of apparent test production shut down. Not related to steroid use. It happened after months of consistent training and inherent high cortisol levels. I have no data to backup this except regular blood work (that doesn't include testosterone levels) where everything was normal.
I'm 39 and started TRT a couple of months ago, because last couple of years i have been dragging myself everyday, no energy, barely keeping up with my desk job and family needs. Working out again was a mirage. My 70 yo father had more stamina than me.
Ideas?
I am mid 40s and I lift between 5 and 7 days a week. I have had some periods like you describe, but for the most part I am ok. My training sessions are short- about 30 minutes to 45 minutes. I think that is important. Further, if you do feel tired, listen to your body and train less intensely or take a break. For me, this works well, but periods with fatigue can happen and then I believe you just need to obey and ease up.
I still get progress when bulking and set a personal best 1rm max in benchpress after training for more than 20 years. But very difficult to keep mass while cutting. Never juiced- only use creatine, BCAA and a mix of casein and whey proteins as supplements.
NN
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I love family. I love friends. I don't use the word "love" for training. I like it. Having said that might I suggest that you give Mentzer's final version of HIT a try?
Good luck.
I did, right in my early years of training. I couldn't keep up with the flex magazines training routines. HIT worked for me.
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You're overtraining. A big problem is trying to train like when you were young - not because of age - but because you are stronger and because you have trained longer you can put more stress on the muscle easier as you know what you are doing. You need to do less you also need to be aware you are hurting your nervous system every time you train and after 5-6 weeks you need 9-10 days off training to let it recover. That's a massive thing.
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how do you tell when 'the nervous system needs to recover'?
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how do you tell when 'the nervous system needs to recover'?
You can feel it. You feel irritable, overtrained, don't want to be in there, want to sleep more etc. Once you have trained a few years it should be every 6 weeks, maybe even sooner but my first few years I was a teenager so I didn't really feel it the same, plus you aren't doing as much damage with lighter weights and not the same intensity then.
Once you have 10 days rest you are bouncing off walls. It takes 10 days to recover. I knew this anyway from my experiences but if you want to read it elsewhere Ben Johnson's coach mentioned it a lot in his book, also said the Europeans were using that as a guideline too when training.
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You can feel it. You feel irritable, overtrained, don't want to be in there, want to sleep more etc. Once you have trained a few years it should be every 6 weeks, maybe even sooner but my first few years I was a teenager so I didn't really feel it the same, plus you aren't doing as much damage with lighter weights and not the same intensity then.
Once you have 10 days rest you are bouncing off walls. It takes 10 days to recover. I knew this anyway from my experiences but if you want to read it elsewhere Ben Johnson's coach mentioned it a lot in his book, also said the Europeans were using that as a guideline too when training.
You just described my current state: irritable, unhappy, beat up, want to sleep, but can't. I haven't taken more than 2 consecutive days off in 3 years :-\. I used to strive for one week out of 12 no weights but obviously forgot that.
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For me the major problem is muscle recovery. It's not unusuall to get flu like symptoms for days after leg day.
I know, it's stupid, i laugh about it also. I should stop squatting, but i can't.
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I did, right in my early years of training. I couldn't keep up with the flex magazines training routines. HIT worked for me.
Then give it another try. Tailor it to your needs but keep it reasonable. Go to the gym as little as is needed to produce the desired results. Rest and eat right.
There is more to living than just lifting. Today my session went well and I was a little stronger on some movements and a little less on others. Total sets done today was 9. I felt good. I will now wait 48 to 72 hours before training again but at least I know that 192 hours off didn't hurt.
Good luck.
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i think my training makes me tired i think i will train more
good atitude falcon
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For me the major problem is muscle recovery. It's not unusuall to get flu like symptoms for days after leg day.
I know, it's stupid, i laugh about it also. I should stop squatting, but i can't.
Just have to take some time off and fully recover.
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You can feel it. You feel irritable, overtrained, don't want to be in there, want to sleep more etc. Once you have trained a few years it should be every 6 weeks, maybe even sooner but my first few years I was a teenager so I didn't really feel it the same, plus you aren't doing as much damage with lighter weights and not the same intensity then.
Once you have 10 days rest you are bouncing off walls. It takes 10 days to recover. I knew this anyway from my experiences but if you want to read it elsewhere Ben Johnson's coach mentioned it a lot in his book, also said the Europeans were using that as a guideline too when training.
If someone wants to train every day, do you think they need to periodize?
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I think as we get older, we will have alarming periods (hopefully very short term) where our testosterone is greatly reduced.
I think stress plays a roll, and hopefully periods where our circumstance is improved will reduce these results...
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You just described my current state: irritable, unhappy, beat up, want to sleep, but can't. I haven't taken more than 2 consecutive days off in 3 years :-\. I used to strive for one week out of 12 no weights but obviously forgot that.
You should take around 10 days off every 6 weeks or how often you are that tired. At your level 6 weeks.
It does more than restore the nervous system. Training builds up waste product in the body. When you come back after say 2 training sessions you will be leaner than before. You would have no stress on the body anymore holding excess fluid/waste and you would have done a few sessions so your body would be coming back fast.
Something I have also found which took me years to work out is after about 7-8 months of this you need a solid 2-3 weeks off. I can notice that for about a week at this point while training I get a energy surge, I think it's like the body giving one last boost as it's at its limits and when that goes I am completely drained. I had this first at 22 and I didn't really pick it because when it started I was starting a new job so I thought maybe that was why I was drained but it wasn't it.
Yes you can't really fall asleep easily when you are overtrained and don't worry about not training for 10 days you will end up looking better once you have the rest and come back. Your body will respond far better to what you are doing.
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If someone wants to train every day, do you think they need to periodize?
I don't think training every day at a level of intensity is any good for improvement. You should be aiming to break down the muscle then let it recover and overcompensate then do it again. The body needs rest. Realistically 3 days of weight training a week should be it.
I also don't think light days are worth shit, either break down the muscle or leave it.
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...making it shut down earlier than people who don't workout, bodybuilding style?
Just like eating too much sugars may shut down your pancreas?
I bodybuild since a teenager and have experienced during two decades of training several periods of apparent test production shut down. Not related to steroid use. It happened after months of consistent training and inherent high cortisol levels. I have no data to backup this except regular blood work (that doesn't include testosterone levels) where everything was normal.
I'm 39 and started TRT a couple of months ago, because last couple of years i have been dragging myself everyday, no energy, barely keeping up with my desk job and family needs. Working out again was a mirage. My 70 yo father had more stamina than me.
Ideas?
It's called age.
39 years old and on TRT already? You're probably training too much.
Your major mistake was getting married and having kids.
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I don't think training every day at a level of intensity is any good for improvement. You should be aiming to break down the muscle then let it recover and overcompensate then do it again. The body needs rest. Realistically 3 days of weight training a week should be it.
I also don't think light days are worth shit, either break down the muscle or leave it.
I totally agree, but age/natty has a lot to do with it. I train 3x a week... that plenty for someone who wants to look good, but is not a competitive bodybuilder. I lift moderately heavy and do enough sets to get sore. If you do that, training muscle groups 1x/week is more than enough.
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It's called age.
39 years old and on TRT already? You're probably training too much.
Your major mistake was getting married and having kids.
He shouldn't be on TRT because the problem was overtraining. He just needs to let his system recover. If it wasn't all that there are some vitamins that massively help.
L-Arginine and Pycnogenol are fucking amazing they should be used before Viagra every time. They help thin the blood out, I didn't have issues with sex drive but that made a big difference anyway. There are other things too like Iron levels might be low, I also added Guarana because someone on here said it was good a few months ago and yes I felt that give me more energy.
To answer your other response, Dexter Jackson has trained 3 times a week for years. Dorian was 4, you think Dorian would look worse if he moved a few bodyparts to other days and only did 3 a week? You really don't need more juice or not, the body still needs to recover. The six days a week training is rubbish, it's all about what you do and the body needs to recover you can't just go hard every day, if you try to there's not real intensity there. I guarantee these guys who haven't taken a rest will be blown away by how much harder they go for weeks after the rest.
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Long term Steroid usage completely shuts down certain aspects of the endocrine system
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Long term Steroid usage completely shuts down certain aspects of the endocrine system
Sounds like a good excuse to blast/cruise until the big man in the sky comes a calling. ;D
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Long term Steroid usage completely shuts down certain aspects of the endocrine system
Can you define Long term. I cycled 4 years, longest on 6 months twice. Always came off for 6 weeks. I recovered and was no worse. Test levels were normal 3-4 months after clearing out (I know that isn't what you mean).
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Can you define Long term. I cycled 4 years, longest on 6 months twice. Always came off for 6 weeks. I recovered and was no worse. Test levels were normal 3-4 months after clearing out (I know that isn't what you mean).
You came off.
Some idiots don't have the courage to come off. Hence = shutdown
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Then give it another try. Tailor it to your needs but keep it reasonable. Go to the gym as little as is needed to produce the desired results. Rest and eat right.
There is more to living than just lifting. Today my session went well and I was a little stronger on some movements and a little less on others. Total sets done today was 9. I felt good. I will now wait 48 to 72 hours before training again but at least I know that 192 hours off didn't hurt.
Good luck.
Right now i am training 2-3 times a week. Very low weights, high reps, nice pump. Due to my herniated discs i don't want to became the caucasian version of Ronnie Coleman.
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i think my training makes me tired i think i will train more
good atitude falcon
I don't want to became a lazy obese person Falcon.
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Just have to take some time off and fully recover.
I just took a year off recovery from my surgeries. I want to start training again. The problem is i am so out of shape, i get soreness just from miring' the weights. ::)
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It's called age.
39 years old and on TRT already? You're probably training too much.
Your major mistake was getting married and having kids.
I had to stop training due to a hearnia surgery. I believe that caused some reduction in test production, and now, trying to working out again was impossible without the hormones.
Maybe i stop TRT after 3 months to se how i feel without it.
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Long term Steroid usage completely shuts down certain aspects of the endocrine system
Yes. But the question i raise is the exact opposite:
Does training natural for decades too demanding on test production organs? High cortisol levels stimulate the body to produce high testosterone levels, after decades of this, are the testicles are worn out?
More... do test boosters suplements, like tribulus, zma, and the such ultimately kill the endocrine system?
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Yes. But the question i raise is the exact opposite:
Does training natural for decades too demanding on test production organs? High cortisol levels stimulate the body to produce high testosterone levels, after decades of this, are the testicles are worn out?
More... do test boosters suplements, like tribulus, zma, and the such ultimately kill the endocrine system?
Tyrosine helps curb a lot of the endocrine concerns that you have
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does anyone think training can have a significant, negative effect on brain? "overtraining for the brain" in a way?
it seems like the days i always drag the most in the gym or on my bike, i also have the most trouble concentrating. not only that, but there's just a pervasive bleakness to these days.
whenever i have a great workout, my thoughts seem much more coordinated, much faster, mood is better, etc. at first, i thought this was "purely psychological", e.g. "well something good happened, of course i'm less depressed". but i'm starting to think there might be more to it, e.g. bdnf (on a good day) vs. cytokines on a bad day, etc.
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If you are not over training, weight lifting does a lot of positive thinks for the brain and mental status as we age. I have read some good studies on it lately. So it gives me another reason to train.
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All those hormones your body will release after some serious sports should have a positive effect.
After a real hard workout I'm happy and at peace no matter what happened before.
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does anyone think training can have a significant, negative effect on brain? "overtraining for the brain" in a way?
Long-lasting systemic hypercortisolism is neurotoxic. Usually this is caused by endocrine disorders or by severe stress (defined as high workload or severe stressor combined with lack of perceived control and high importance of the task at hand). I don't think there is any research showing this as a result of too intense training/ overtraining, but it is certainly theoretically possible.
It is the neurons in the medial temporal lobe, in particular the hippocampus and associated areas that show atrophy first. Fortunately, it is reversible, as the very same regions also are the regions with neurogenesis.
NN
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does anyone think training can have a significant, negative effect on brain? "overtraining for the brain" in a way?
it seems like the days i always drag the most in the gym or on my bike, i also have the most trouble concentrating. not only that, but there's just a pervasive bleakness to these days.
whenever i have a great workout, my thoughts seem much more coordinated, much faster, mood is better, etc. at first, i thought this was "purely psychological", e.g. "well something good happened, of course i'm less depressed". but i'm starting to think there might be more to it, e.g. bdnf (on a good day) vs. cytokines on a bad day, etc.
Blood sugars leave the brain and travel to where they are most needed, muscle repair and function.
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Sadly I think it is. Going to the gym everyday is out of the question. You hit a roadblock for muscle size and if you keep pushing you just wear yourself out. Better to maintain muscle and spend more time working on your diet.
This.
Many I know who did the natural route ended up injured and fat because their hormonal imbalances are out of wack. Many look like they never even touched a weight despite eating well and exercising
There's a limit If you're natural and even if you take stuff but don't have the genetic response, you also need to rest. You can't grow if you don't rest
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Long-lasting systemic hypercortisolism is neurotoxic. Usually this is caused by endocrine disorders or by severe stress (defined as high workload or severe stressor combined with lack of perceived control and high importance of the task at hand). I don't think there is any research showing this as a result of too intense training/ overtraining, but it is certainly theoretically possible.
It is the neurons in the medial temporal lobe, in particular the hippocampus and associated areas that show atrophy first. Fortunately, it is reversible, as the very same regions also are the regions with neurogenesis.
NN
Great post!
It's very easy to hypothesize about some of my personal experiences using this information... though sadly, borderline impossible to test.