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Title: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 17, 2016, 09:42:27 PM
Any thoughts on this epic battle?   My theory: the husband and wife terrorists' phone is an obvious and convenient red herring. Current legal tussle not about this phone, but about creating the magical slippery slope.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Irongrip400 on February 18, 2016, 01:52:47 AM
No need for the government to intervene and force Apples hand in this matter. They should get their own hackers to break the security function of the phone, not force a company to do it. Gestapo tactics right der.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 02:10:46 AM
It's all show.
CrApple, Microshit and many others have backdoors for the government already incorporated in their products for many years.
If you want to make it a little harder for the government to spy on you use Linux.

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Coffeed on February 18, 2016, 02:25:09 AM
On the surface this looked like a glamorous headline, but after looking at it it is certainly interesting.

I tend to agree with the rights over the people. I mean, like someone said it's a slippery slope and the rights of the people kept us from being run by communist dictators so there's that.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Mitch on February 18, 2016, 02:29:13 AM
It's all show.
CrApple, Microshit and many others have backdoors for the government already incorporated in their products for many years.
If you want to make it a little harder for the government to spy on you use Linux.


x2. Just a bullshit ad campaign to promote how safe apple products are. Tbombz's ass is more protected.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: oldtimer1 on February 18, 2016, 04:36:50 AM
So protection of terrorists is a noble thing? It's a court's order just like a warrant. Unless you believe law enforcement shouldn't have warrants to search computers and phones because it's a slippery slope.  Just typical liberal thought that is ruining this country.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: FitnessFrenzy on February 18, 2016, 04:47:23 AM
x2. Just a bullshit ad campaign to promote how safe apple products are. Tbombz's ass is more protected.

interesting comparison. Really something to ponder.  :o
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Irongrip400 on February 18, 2016, 04:59:57 AM
So protection of terrorists is a noble thing? It's a court's order just like a warrant. Unless you believe law enforcement shouldn't have warrants to search computers and phones because it's a slippery slope.  Just typical liberal thought that is ruining this country.

It's not the same as a search warrant. You're forcing the manufacturer of the product to break into it for you. It's the same as the government forcing businesses to bake cakes for gay weddings. I see where you're coming from, but I'm not giving up my freedoms "just this one time" for the government.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: beakdoctor on February 18, 2016, 07:19:08 AM
It's not the same as a search warrant. You're forcing the manufacturer of the product to break into it for you. It's the same as the government forcing businesses to bake cakes for gay weddings. I see where you're coming from, but I'm not giving up my freedoms "just this one time" for the government.

I didn't read the article but its not about YOU giving up YOUR freedpom just this one time. Its a search of an individial cell phone related to a specific event. There's obviously loads of Probable cause to justify searching the phone (s) that belonged to the shooters. Nobody cares about your phone.

Apple one of the greediest organizations ever taking the high road is hilarious. Apple doesnt give a fuck about your personal freedoms.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 18, 2016, 07:34:40 AM
It's not the same as a search warrant. You're forcing the manufacturer of the product to break into it for you. It's the same as the government forcing businesses to bake cakes for gay weddings. I see where you're coming from, but I'm not giving up my freedoms "just this one time" for the government.

Governments have a tendency of using tragedies to expand power and limit freedoms. The government could just get the phone records from ATT and Verizon.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Disgusted on February 18, 2016, 07:38:32 AM
The NSA had criticized Apple about a year ago because they encrypted their products. They accused them of protecting child molesters.  ::) Apple can NOT get into that phone no matter what unless they can guess a simple password. The issue at hand is they want Apple to create a back door so they can get into your phone and computer.

I have spoken to Apple about this already regarding a phone my friend  could not remember his password. They said you might a well toss it unless you an remember your PW.   Apple gives you the option to use an advanced PW and from what I read you should have at least a 15 character one with various letters and numbers. Most people will not do this.

Some states have passed a new law I think NJ is one of them (perhaps Harley can verify) that if you get pulled over in you car they can now take your phone as evidence if you are charged with something or even if they suspect you have committed a crime.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on February 18, 2016, 07:42:09 AM
(https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/12/23/National-Politics/Images/Untitled-51387827612.jpg)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 07:47:58 AM
The NSA had criticized Apple about a year ago because they encrypted their products. They accused them of protecting child molesters.  ::) Apple can NOT get into that phone no matter what unless they can guess a simple password. The issue at hand is they want Apple to create a back door so they can get into your phone and computer.

With all due respect it's naive to think there's no backdoor in a device that has been mainly created to monitor the user's activities.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Disgusted on February 18, 2016, 07:56:56 AM
With all due respect it's naive to think there's no backdoor in a device that has been mainly created to monitor the user's activities.

Oh you may be right but I do know of a situation where local police took a mans phone and were unable to get in it. Maybe these back door devices are only reserved to certain agencies.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Dave D on February 18, 2016, 07:57:02 AM
I didn't read the article but its not about YOU giving up YOUR freedpom just this one time. Its a search of an individial cell phone related to a specific event. There's obviously loads of Probable cause to justify searching the phone (s) that belonged to the shooters. Nobody cares about your phone.

Apple one of the greediest organizations ever taking the high road is hilarious. Apple doesnt give a fuck about your personal freedoms.

Well thanks for your opinion on a topic you admittedly know nothing about.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 07:57:52 AM
With all due respect it's naive to think there's no backdoor in a device that has been mainly created to monitor the user's activities.


Apple and your service provider don't need your password to monitor your activities.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 07:58:59 AM
Well thanks for your opinion on a topic you admittedly know nothing about.

This poster needs to understand that once this court battle is decided, it becomes legal precedent. It affects future similar cases.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Dave D on February 18, 2016, 08:01:17 AM
So protection of terrorists is a noble thing? It's a court's order just like a warrant. Unless you believe law enforcement shouldn't have warrants to search computers and phones because it's a slippery slope.  Just typical liberal thought that is ruining this country.

Did you read the article? All this could be solved if  gun manufacturers would be required to invent a technology that won't allow the weapon to fire at an unarmed person.

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 08:07:05 AM

Apple and your service provider don't need your password to monitor your activities.

Luckily I possess no crApple device.
And, yes I know.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Disgusted on February 18, 2016, 08:08:57 AM
Can someone give an example where a government agency has hacked into an Apple product using this "back door" technology?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Dave D on February 18, 2016, 08:11:27 AM
This poster needs to understand that once this court battle is decided, it becomes legal precedent. It affects future similar cases.

Agreed however based on the comment I don't think this concept is understood.

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 08:13:22 AM
Can someone give an example where a government agency has hacked into an Apple product using this "back door" technology?

Link (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Disgusted on February 18, 2016, 08:21:45 AM
Link (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data)

Not what we are talking about here. Apple has recently encrypted all there products and if your phone or computer is shut off no one can get in.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: SF1900 on February 18, 2016, 08:22:25 AM
Not what we are talking about here. Apple has recently encrypted all there products and if your phone or computer is shut off no one can get in.

This is dumb. What if you forget your password?  ??? ??? You have to buy a whole new phone?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Disgusted on February 18, 2016, 08:24:13 AM
This is dumb. What if you forget your password?  ??? ??? You have to buy a whole new phone?

Yes!
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 08:32:21 AM
Not what we are talking about here. Apple has recently encrypted all there products and if your phone or computer is shut off no one can get in.

We talk about the government monitoring your activities.
My link simply proved it's already in full force.

Another
Link (http://www.infowars.com/91497/)
regarding "if your phone or computer is shut off no one can get in."

Don't expect your phone to be any different.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Disgusted on February 18, 2016, 08:36:12 AM
We talk about the government monitoring your activities.
My link simply proved it's already in full force.

Another
Link (http://www.infowars.com/91497/)
regarding "if your phone or computer is shut off no one can get in."

Don't expect your phone to be any different.

I am talking about getting into a phone with 256 bit AES Encryption. It can't be done.

The link you provided is another example of something we are not talking about. APPLE ENCRYPTION!!!!
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 08:41:24 AM
I am talking about getting into a phone with 256 bit AES Encryption. It can't be done.

Apart from the NSA having more than enough computing horsepower to manage that...
they get the key beforehand.

Link (http://www.mintpressnews.com/how-does-the-nsa-bypass-online-encryption/169916/)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: SF1900 on February 18, 2016, 08:41:40 AM
Yes!

 Buy a new phone ??? ???

How can I unlock my iPhone if I forgot the passcode?

Apple explains how to unlock the iPhone if you have forgotten the passcode or password in the manual for each model. For the iPhone 5c, for example, it is provided on page 155 as well as on the company support site. However, as this is a very frequently asked question, the official answers and additional help are below for your convenience.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/iphone/iphone-troubleshooting-repair-faq/iphone-how-to-unlock-open-forgot-code-passcode-password-login.html

The only way to regain an entry into your iPhone is to restore it. Yes, that’s going to delete all data but, incidentally, even when you are locked out of your iPhone, you can backup data from it.

http://www.igeeksblog.com/i-forgot-my-iphone-passcode/
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on February 18, 2016, 09:15:28 AM
Tim Cook to FBI


Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Raymondo on February 18, 2016, 09:22:03 AM
Apart from the NSA having more than enough computing horsepower to manage that...
they get the key beforehand.

Link (http://www.mintpressnews.com/how-does-the-nsa-bypass-online-encryption/169916/)

Even if they can in theory, it would be extremely impractical. The resources needed to crack 50% of the combinations of a single 256 AES key are unfathomable. (https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/1x50xl/time_and_energy_required_to_bruteforce_a_aes256/)

That's the power of cryptography for you.

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HonestBob on February 18, 2016, 09:24:41 AM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/17/apple-unlocked-iphones-for-the-feds-70-times-before.html

Sorry, no idea if that is a link or needs copy and paste.

This is an Apple PR stunt, they've unlocked many times before.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 09:27:11 AM
Even if they can in theory, it would be impractical. The resources needed to crack 50% of the combinations of a 256 AES key are immense. (http://www.getbig.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/1x50xl/time_and_energy_required_to_bruteforce_a_aes256/)



Yes.
But I think they are at minimum 30 but more likely 50 yrs ahead of official computer hardware.
So for them it will be a relatively easy task.
Using general computer hardware this will be no fun.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HonestBob on February 18, 2016, 09:28:54 AM
Yes.
But I think they are at minimum 30 but more likely 50 yrs ahead of official computer hardware.
So for them it will be a relatively easy task.
Using general computer hardware this will be no fun.

I think this is probably a bit of a hyperbolic statement.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: TuHolmes on February 18, 2016, 09:30:29 AM
Yes.
But I think they are at minimum 30 but more likely 50 yrs ahead of official computer hardware.
So for them it will be a relatively easy task.
Using general computer hardware this will be no fun.

The government buys the same hardware everyone else does.

I used to put in stuff for the DoD... They didn't have magical super computers that were more advanced than anyone else.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 09:45:13 AM
Buy a new phone ??? ???

How can I unlock my iPhone if I forgot the passcode?

Apple explains how to unlock the iPhone if you have forgotten the passcode or password in the manual for each model. For the iPhone 5c, for example, it is provided on page 155 as well as on the company support site. However, as this is a very frequently asked question, the official answers and additional help are below for your convenience.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/iphone/iphone-troubleshooting-repair-faq/iphone-how-to-unlock-open-forgot-code-passcode-password-login.html

The only way to regain an entry into your iPhone is to restore it. Yes, that’s going to delete all data but, incidentally, even when you are locked out of your iPhone, you can backup data from it.

http://www.igeeksblog.com/i-forgot-my-iphone-passcode/

You have to set your phone for that level of security. I only started using a passcode for my phone about a year ago, but my data won't be wiped if there are more than a certain number of attempts.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 09:50:32 AM
The government buys the same hardware everyone else does.

I used to put in stuff for the DoD... They didn't have magical super computers that were more advanced than anyone else.

Yeah, industry makes all of the significant computing/technological advances and they are mainly for the consumer market. Whatever "advanced" computer tech the government has that the gp doesn't is either because it is cost prohibitive for the consumer market or there isn't a demand for it on the consumer market. 
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on February 18, 2016, 09:54:02 AM
so if you wanted to be an asshole , just grab some dumb bitch or douchebag you hate, enter the password 10 times incorrect and hopefully they dont back up their phones and you will have ruined their day for a few days to come  :D
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 10:00:59 AM
How far advanced is military technology in relation to available consumer tech? (https://www.quora.com/How-far-advanced-is-military-technology-in-relation-to-available-consumer-tech)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: 240 is Back on February 18, 2016, 10:05:53 AM
This poster needs to understand that once this court battle is decided, it becomes legal precedent. It affects future similar cases.

Once repubs give obama the permission to open ONE phone, he has the power and ability to open a million of them.

Trump is the loudest voice calling for this ;)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 10:07:42 AM
How far advanced is military technology in relation to available consumer tech? (https://www.quora.com/How-far-advanced-is-military-technology-in-relation-to-available-consumer-tech)

Did you read this link?  ???
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 10:09:03 AM
Did you read this link?  ???

Of course.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Raymondo on February 18, 2016, 10:09:28 AM
Yes.
But I think they are at minimum 30 but more likely 50 yrs ahead of official computer hardware.
So for them it will be a relatively easy task.
Using general computer hardware this will be no fun.

I think Snowden's revelations shows they aren't that far ahead. They have acres filled with servers but so do the private sector tech giants.

The most exciting thing I read in Snowden's docs is that they are heavily researching quantum computing since it will be one way of cracking cryptography.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 10:20:54 AM
Of course.

That link doesn't support the argument that the government is 30-50 years ahead of the general public when it comes to technology.  ???
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 10:23:32 AM
That link doesn't support the argument that the government is 30-50 years ahead of the general public when it comes to technology.  ???

Why not?
The military is a part of the government.

30-50 yrs has been my personal estimation.

The max. mentioned of military personal itself was like 20yrs.
Some civilian came to the conclusion it is like 44yrs.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 10:38:51 AM
Why not?
The military is a part of the government.

30-50 yrs has been my personal estimation.

The max. mentioned of military personal itself was like 20yrs.
Some civilian came to the conclusion it is like 44yrs.

Most of the people with knowledge of or connections to the military said that the gap was pretty small and continues to shrink, if one exists at all. And the people who elaborated on the 44 years estimate said that was an outdated notion that applied to a research and development structure that largely doesn't exist anymore. And the guy who made the 44 years estimate just guesstimated based on things he'd read on the internet. The guy with the most military experience said the gap was down to 12-18 months from a previous average of 2-4 years. 

What do you think technology that is 50 years ahead of high-end consumer technology even looks like?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 10:43:42 AM
Most of the people with knowledge of or connections to the military said that the gap was pretty small and continues to shrink, if one exists at all. And the people who elaborated on the 44 years estimate said that was an outdated notion that applied to a research and development structure that largely doesn't exist anymore. And the guy who made the 44 years estimate just guesstimated based on things he'd read on the internet. The guy with the most military experience said the gap was down to 12-18 months from a previous average of 2-4 years. 

What do you think technology that is 50 years ahead of high-end consumer technology even looks like?

 ;D
I have no idea.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Raymondo on February 18, 2016, 10:58:01 AM
;D
I have no idea.

Have a look at Kurzweil's predictions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil#2019)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 18, 2016, 11:04:36 AM
Have a look at Kurzweil's predictions (http://www.getbig.com/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil#2019)

Very interesting, probably not too far off and partially scary at the same time.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: phreak on February 18, 2016, 11:51:29 AM
Most of the people with knowledge of or connections to the military said that the gap was pretty small and continues to shrink, if one exists at all. And the people who elaborated on the 44 years estimate said that was an outdated notion that applied to a research and development structure that largely doesn't exist anymore. And the guy who made the 44 years estimate just guesstimated based on things he'd read on the internet. The guy with the most military experience said the gap was down to 12-18 months from a previous average of 2-4 years. 

What do you think technology that is 50 years ahead of high-end consumer technology even looks like?

So you doubt that there are huge (but extremely well hidden) multi-billion dollar fabs out there that produce tech decades ahead of anything Intel or TSMC can produce, using principles that researchers worldwide have not even discovered yet?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 12:05:40 PM
So you doubt that there are huge (but extremely well hidden) multi-billion dollar fabs out there that produce tech decades ahead of anything Intel or TSMC can produce, using principles that researchers worldwide have not even discovered yet?

Yes, I doubt it. It's just not possible. The competition for tech development talent is too stiff and the only way to fund high-level,cutting edge  research and development is to be a profitable corporation.  Advancements in technology don't occur in a vacuum. They are gradual and built upon previous advancements, so it just doesn't make sense that there are top secret organizations using undiscovered principles to create decades in the future technology.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: TuHolmes on February 18, 2016, 12:22:28 PM
Yes, I doubt it. It's just not possible. The competition for tech development talent is too stiff and the only way to fund high-level,cutting edge  research and development is to be a profitable corporation.  Advancements in technology don't occur in a vacuum. They are gradual and built upon previous advancements, so it just doesn't make sense that there are top secret organizations using undiscovered principles to create decades in the future technology.

Agreed. This isn't like when the government was funding all of these top secret computer projects.

Even all of the ship building and newest aircrafts are designed and built by corporations.

Computing power is not built by the government. They are buying stuff built by Intel, AMD, and Oracle.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on February 18, 2016, 12:35:24 PM
how long before the FBI supercomputers could crack this guys password  ???




Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 18, 2016, 12:36:40 PM
Yes, I doubt it. It's just not possible. The competition for tech development talent is too stiff and the only way to fund high-level,cutting edge  research and development is to be a profitable corporation.  Advancements in technology don't occur in a vacuum. They are gradual and built upon previous advancements, so it just doesn't make sense that there are top secret organizations using undiscovered principles to create decades in the future technology.

If the government does have it, it hasn't made its way to the White House ;)

(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/thinlizzy21/626779A5-4A7A-49FF-906A-D1A2B549B405_zpsnekongjm.png) (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/thinlizzy21/media/626779A5-4A7A-49FF-906A-D1A2B549B405_zpsnekongjm.png.html)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 12:40:47 PM
Anyone care to offer an opinion as to why Apple claims this matter requires a "public discussion"?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: TuHolmes on February 18, 2016, 12:49:00 PM
Anyone care to offer an opinion as to why Apple claims this matter requires a "public discussion"?

Because it affects 2 things in my mind.

1. It's a social and legal issue for the entire country so people (citizens) should be involved.
2. PR nightmare if they just do whatever the government says.

I saw where Google backed them as well.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 18, 2016, 01:08:24 PM
Also, to get out in front of the story.

A legal battle between the U.S Government and the biggest company in the world isn't gonna be a secret for very long.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 01:37:16 PM
So "discussion" doesn't mean they're looking to soften the stand they claim, because lo and behold they've found the public "thinks it's more important" to seek some "compromise"?

We're talking about a terror attack on U.S. soil being the spark for the entire thing, a fact which couldn't possibly stay out of the "discussion".

How would this "discussion" go, exactly?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 18, 2016, 02:00:39 PM
Go apple!! Google CEO wants to give law enforcement citizens data!! :-\
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Dave D on February 18, 2016, 02:00:58 PM
So "discussion" doesn't mean they're looking to soften the stand they claim, because lo and behold they've found the public "thinks it's more important" to seek some "compromise"?

We're talking about a terror attack on U.S. soil being the spark for the entire thing, a fact which couldn't possibly stay out of the "discussion".

How would this "discussion" go, exactly?

"Terror attack"  is a media created term. This was more of a disgruntled employee losing his mind.

Do you think this would have been averted if the government had access to his cell phone prior to the attack?

There was the kid who lost it in California and he openly posted on bodybuilding.com and no one did anything to stop him from acting out on his rage.

Or do you really think there's vital "terrorist" information on that phone?

If the US government wanted to shut down terrorist attacks on homeland soil there are many useful steps they can take to  achieve such a goal. Mining a cell phone for information is the least important of these.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on February 18, 2016, 02:03:19 PM
It's not about them not doing it in this isolated case, it's about including some kind of backdoor in all future products.  If they did what the feds were asking them to do, it would be technically possible for anyone to get in which is essentially undermining their product.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 18, 2016, 02:06:53 PM
It's not about them not doing it in this isolated case, it's about including some kind of backdoor in all future products.  If they did what the feds were asking them to do, it would be technically possible for anyone to get in which is essentially undermining their product.
This. ^
They want a master key to everyone's data. So unconstitutional it is beyond belief .
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 02:12:47 PM

How would this "discussion" go, exactly?

They used the term "discussion" at the beginning of an open letter in which they discussed this issue. They were not calling for a discussion with the public. They were saying that the moment called for them to discuss THEIR POSITION in public.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 18, 2016, 02:13:32 PM
Apple encryption is the shit.

http://www.darthnull.org/2014/10/06/ios-encryption

Android sucks on older devices. Upgrade your phones people.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/08/phone-and-laptop-encryption-guide-protect-your-stuff-and-yourself/
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:14:17 PM
"Terror attack"  is a media created term. This was more of a disgruntled employee losing his mind.

Do you think this would have been averted if the government had access to his cell phone prior to the attack?

There was the kid who lost it in California and he openly posted on bodybuilding.com and no one did anything to stop him from acting out on his rage.

Or do you really think there's vital "terrorist" information on that phone?

If the US government wanted to shut down terrorist attacks on homeland soil there are many useful steps they can take to  achieve such a goal. Mining a cell phone for information is the least important of these.

I suspect that Apple has infested our government to the point they might as well be one and the same.

So I'm not entirely convinced this is what it's said to be, when it comes down to it.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:17:10 PM
They used the term "discussion" at the beginning of an open letter in which they discussed this issue. They were not calling for a discussion with the public. They were saying that the moment called for them to discuss THEIR POSITION in public.

So you have full faith they aren't looking to soften the position.  Is that correct?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 18, 2016, 02:20:24 PM
So you have full faith they aren't looking to soften the position.  Is that correct?
I do. Why? Because how would buy a phone with a back door? Everybody was something on their phone, a nude pic, private texts, etc, that they don't want getting out. People are paranoid by nature.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 02:23:37 PM
So you have full faith they aren't looking to soften the position.  Is that correct?

I have full faith that the meaning of that letter was not to call for a town hall meeting, which is what I said in that post.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:24:56 PM
I do. Why? Because how would buy a phone with a back door? Everybody was something on their phone, a nude pic, private texts, etc, that they don't want getting out. People are paranoid by nature.

Because the "bad guys" may steal your info or cause you trouble, right?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:27:54 PM
I have full faith that the meaning of that letter was not to call for a town hall meeting, which is what I said in that post.

What you said in the post, is this:

Quote
They were not calling for a discussion with the public.

What Apple says, is this:

Quote
This moment calls for public discussion

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: beakdoctor on February 18, 2016, 02:28:35 PM
Agreed however based on the comment I don't think this concept is understood.



I have a better understanding of it than you. Search warrants are issued upon probable cause, always have been. It's nothing new. The search is justified they need the assistance of apple because of the encryption. It's that simple.

There is nothing in this case that will be legal precedent. The FEDS will get in. Apple is only delaying the inevitable.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 02:30:47 PM
What you said in the post, is this:

What Apple says, is this:



What I said in the post is this:

Quote
They were saying that the moment called for them to discuss THEIR POSITION in public.

Why did you clip that when you quoted me?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:32:43 PM
What I said in the post is this:

Why did you clip that when you quoted me?

Are you aware of the definition of the word?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Dave D on February 18, 2016, 02:32:54 PM
I suspect that Apple has infested our government to the point they might as well be one and the same.

So I'm not entirely convinced this is what it's said to be, when it comes down to it.

That is a legitimate and valid point.

Usually these releases are "red herrings" to open the thought of what could be even though it has already happened.

I see your point.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:35:26 PM
*The action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

*A conversation or debate about a certain topic.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Dave D on February 18, 2016, 02:37:10 PM
I have a better understanding of it than you. Search warrants are issued upon probable cause, always have been. It's nothing new. The search is justified they need the assistance of apple because of the encryption. It's that simple.

There is nothing in this case that will be legal precedent. The FEDS will get in. Apple is only delaying the inevitable.
I never said the FBI wouldn't get what it was asking for.

According to apple, in the article you said YOU DID NOT READ, the government is asking for a technology that apple says they don't have access to.  


But you have a better understanding of the situation  than I so....
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 02:37:36 PM
Are you aware of the definition of the word?

They used the term "public discussion" at the beginning of a letter addressed to the public in which they discussed their position. There really is no debate about what it meant.  
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 02:42:02 PM
I have a better understanding of it than you. Search warrants are issued upon probable cause, always have been. It's nothing new. The search is justified they need the assistance of apple because of the encryption. It's that simple.

There is nothing in this case that will be legal precedent. The FEDS will get in. Apple is only delaying the inevitable.


This isn't what this case is about.  Case is not about a search warrant. The phone is in the government's possession.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:42:20 PM
Are you saying they'll be refusing feedback, Al?  Trying to figure out what you mean.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on February 18, 2016, 02:42:30 PM
This is allll bullshit, they really want the technology to crack tom brady's phone for the next court case against brady and deflate gate



(https://www.gorillaradio.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/marketing-genius.jpg)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:43:07 PM

This isn't what this case is about.  Case is not about a search warrant. The phone is in the government's possession.

He means for the information inside.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Dave D on February 18, 2016, 02:48:37 PM

This isn't what this case is about.  Case is not about a search warrant. The phone is in the government's possession.

I think we all agree that the government gets what it wants at any cost. They will deal with the backlash after the fact. Ape and Google are at least letting the public think their voice and rights matter.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 02:49:04 PM
Are you saying they'll be refusing feedback, Al?  Trying to figure out what you mean.

Where is the confusion? You are the one who asked " Why is Apple calling for a public discussion?" I told you that they're not.  Will they refuse feedback? Who knows?  Are they seeking it? NO. That's not what that letter says. It  says, "Here's what the government asked us. We are taking this opportunity to lay out the issues publicly as opposed to keeping the matter private."   The idea that they are looking to have some sort of townhall meeting figure out what they should do doesn't even make sense. That company has never done anything like that and if they wanted opinions there are tons of ways they could get them. It's a legal issue that most people don't even understand.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 02:51:24 PM
I think we all agree that the government gets what it wants at any cost. They will deal with the backlash after the fact. Ape and Google are at least letting the public think their voice and rights matter.

Not all. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that the government will win in this case.  It's possible, but I wouldn't even say likely.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:53:03 PM
Where is the confusion? You are the one who asked " Why is Apple calling for a public discussion?" I told you that they're not.  Will they refuse feedback? Who knows?  Are they seeking it? NO. That's not what that letter says. It  says, "Here's what the government asked us. We are taking this opportunity to lay out the issues publicly as opposed to keeping the matter private."   The idea that they are looking to have some sort of townhall meeting figure out what they should do doesn't even make sense. That company has never done anything like that and if they wanted opinions there are tons of ways they could get them. It's a legal issue that most people don't even understand.

So why do you suppose they chose that word, if they didn't mean it?

???
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 02:54:30 PM
The government has people who can do this.  If the government claims to want something on that phone, then let them find a way to get it.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 02:59:33 PM
So why do you suppose they chose that word, if they didn't mean it?

???

Because they ... discussed... the issue... publicly. As opposed to privately. In a letter addressed to the public.

Did you notice that there were no plans for a public debate/townhall meeting/ feedback website or hotline mentioned elsewhere in the letter? That would be mad simple for them to set up if that was the plan. Why only that one line, that doesn't even mean that in the context of the letter?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 03:05:57 PM
Because they ... discussed... the issue... publicly. As opposed to privately. In a letter addressed to the public.

Did you notice that there were no plans for a public debate/townhall meeting/ feedback website or hotline mentioned elsewhere in the letter? That would be mad simple for them to set up if that was the plan. Why only that one line, that doesn't even mean that in the context of the letter?

In case you missed it:

*The action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

*A conversation or debate about a certain topic.

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 03:07:42 PM
You are convinced Apple won't loosen up on their stand, and that's good.  I'm glad you have faith in that.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on February 18, 2016, 03:18:32 PM
yes, lets create the back door again to these devices

cant wait for celebrity nudes flap 2.0
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 18, 2016, 03:20:37 PM
You are convinced Apple won't loosen up on their stand, and that's good.  I'm glad you have faith in that.

(http://theblitzbit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/t231278_NOT-SURE-IF-TROLL-OR-JUST-VERY-STUPID.jpg)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 03:23:18 PM
You are convinced Apple won't loosen up on their stand, and that's good.  I'm glad you have faith in that.

That's not what I said, but it is literally the entire point of the letter. Which is another reason that I don't understand why you are so confused about their use of the phrase "public discussion". They are categorical about where they stand. The entire letter is explaining to the public exactly what the issues are and exactly why they are not complying.  So, it's not as if they are looking for public input to take a stand or hedging their bets anywhere else.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 18, 2016, 03:24:08 PM
(http://theblitzbit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/t231278_NOT-SURE-IF-TROLL-OR-JUST-VERY-STUPID.jpg)


LOL much clearer and more succinct.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 03:46:47 PM
That's not what I said, but it is literally the entire point of the letter. Which is another reason that I don't understand why you are so confused about their use of the phrase "public discussion". They are categorical about where they stand. The entire letter is explaining to the public exactly what the issues are and exactly why they are not complying.  So, it's not as if they are looking for public input to take a stand or hedging their bets anywhere else.

Do you think they should expect to get it, after publishing that?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 18, 2016, 03:52:17 PM
BTW, in past cases which Apple busted phones for LE, can anyone determine the reasoning vs. now?

I'm sure there's an answer, so would like to know.  I understand those were different OS, and that they had known vulnerabilities, so why didn't Apple tell LE to go do it themselves with their own resources?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Irongrip400 on February 18, 2016, 03:59:45 PM
This is dumb. What if you forget your password?  ??? ??? You have to buy a whole new phone?

That's one way to guarantee revenue for the future!
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: TuHolmes on February 18, 2016, 04:02:26 PM
This is dumb. What if you forget your password?  ??? ??? You have to buy a whole new phone?

No. You restore your phone to factory condition.

Your phone works, but all the data is wiped.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 18, 2016, 09:53:25 PM
It's all show.
CrApple, Microshit and many others have backdoors for the government already incorporated in their products for many years.
If you want to make it a little harder for the government to spy on you use Linux.



This^^^And lets not forget that the Government probably has many workers working for Apple and many other tech companies. Gov workers probably helped design it. People probably believe that CERN's Large Hadron Collider has nothing to do with any government.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 19, 2016, 06:07:06 AM
This^^^And lets not forget that the Government probably has many workers working for Apple and many other tech companies. Gov workers probably helped design it. People probably believe that CERN's Large Hadron Collider has nothing to do with any government.

I don't think this is true. The world has just changed too for me to buy into the overreaching, all-powerful gov't narrative. With a few exceptions, it's more profitable and prestigious to work for a successful private company than it is to work for the government.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Never1AShow on February 19, 2016, 06:44:33 AM
I thought Getbig was all in favor of back doors.

Apple, please provide the corn.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on February 19, 2016, 12:00:44 PM
Said he would open the phone on his lunch break if the Gov Hired him, plus free of charge

but in reality he said it will take him 3 weeks top if now he will eat his own shoe on live tv






(http://cdni.wired.co.uk/620x413/k_n/McAfee.jpg)


http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2 (http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 19, 2016, 02:35:35 PM
I don't think this is true. The world has just changed too for me to buy into the overreaching, all-powerful gov't narrative. With a few exceptions, it's more profitable and prestigious to work for a successful private company than it is to work for the government.


IMOP If you're deep undercover working for say some sort of CIA/FBI offset dark group that has infiltrated Apple etc, You're going to get a paycheck from that offset group and the company you infiltrated. So you're basically working for both. You'll get all the prestige and money that comes from working in the private sector anyway. It's not either or. It's both or even multiple if your a consultant for many tech companies...
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 19, 2016, 02:40:09 PM
Interesting article on who controls the internet.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2858793/Guardians-internet-seven-people-control-safety-world-wide-web-literally-hold-KEYS-internet.html
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 19, 2016, 03:07:54 PM
IMOP If you're deep undercover working for say some sort of CIA/FBI offset dark group that has infiltrated Apple etc, You're going to get a paycheck from that offset group and the company you infiltrated. So you're basically working for both. You'll get all the prestige and money that comes from working in the private sector anyway. It's not either or. It's both or even multiple if your a consultant for many tech companies...

I'm just not getting what the purpose of having a  double agent infiltrate a consumer electronics company would be.  Or why anyone working for an American company  would feel compelled to be a double agent for the feds. :-\  
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 19, 2016, 03:16:48 PM
Said he would open the phone on his lunch break if the Gov Hired him, plus free of charge

but in reality he said it will take him 3 weeks top if now he will eat his own shoe on live tv






(http://cdni.wired.co.uk/620x413/k_n/McAfee.jpg)


http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2 (http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2)


That article says he's running for pres. I guess this is his Trump moment.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: SF1900 on February 20, 2016, 11:53:48 AM
The U.S. Department of Justice filed a motion on Friday seeking to compel Apple Inc (AAPL.O) to comply with a judge's order to unlock the encrypted iPhone belonging to one of the San Bernardino shooters, portraying the tech giant's refusal as a "marketing strategy."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-encryption-doj-idUSKCN0VS2FT
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: obsidian on February 20, 2016, 11:57:31 AM
Why can't Apple just unlock this one phone without giving the government anything but the unlocked phone with the data on it? I mean do they really have to change their OS so the government can unlock it on their own? The government should just approach Apple with a court order every time they need a phone unlocked.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 20, 2016, 12:23:38 PM
Why can't Apple just unlock this one phone without giving the government anything but the unlocked phone with the data on it? I mean do they really have to change their OS so the government can unlock it on their own? The government should just approach Apple with a court order every time they need a phone unlocked.

I think I read that American government has over 100 court orders for over 100 different phones they want Apple to open. Ranging from terrorists to drug dealers. Looks like the Government is already trying to overreach and is using this terrorist phone to gain the public's acceptance...It's all a dog and phony show. The Government already has all those phones open and knows exactly whats on them. They just don't want the public to know they have it...
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 20, 2016, 12:28:00 PM
What if Apple doesn't have a "back door" to get into the phones? And it would cost them millions to build one etc. Why should Apple or any tech company have to front the bill to get info for a government org? Why not tell the Gov to go pound sand and get the info yourself?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: TuHolmes on February 20, 2016, 01:15:26 PM
What if Apple doesn't have a "back door" to get into the phones? And it would cost them millions to build one etc. Why should Apple or any tech company have to front the bill to get info for a government org? Why not tell the Gov to go pound sand and get the info yourself?

It does not.

That's the point really.

All of the vulnerabilities that the government speaks of to allow a "back door" are in the past and Apple has secured those. The reality is that this "Back door" they are asking for will have to be in a future release of the OS and does absolutely nothing to help them now.

Should another vulnerability arise that allows access to this version of OS (IE, a new found bug) then the government can use that to get in. Then Apple patches that vulnerability for the next OS version and the line is shifted again.

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Never1AShow on February 20, 2016, 02:10:31 PM
What if Apple doesn't have a "back door" to get into the phones? And it would cost them millions to build one etc. Why should Apple or any tech company have to front the bill to get info for a government org? Why not tell the Gov to go pound sand and get the info yourself?

Then they could tell the court that doing what is asked is too burdensome.  The order itself says they can object on this basis.  It also specifically asks them to provide an estimate of the cost.  It ain't like the govt ain't got money.  It can print all day. 

No, this is just Apple posturing.  They've been opening phones for the govt for years.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 20, 2016, 02:41:31 PM
 
No, this is just Apple posturing.  They've been opening phones for the govt for years.

No, they haven't. In the previous cases where the government asked for information from locked phones, Apple assisted because they could retrieve info without unlocking  That isn't possible with the current OS.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 20, 2016, 04:07:42 PM
Why can't Apple just unlock this one phone without giving the government anything but the unlocked phone with the data on it? I mean do they really have to change their OS so the government can unlock it on their own? The government should just approach Apple with a court order every time they need a phone unlocked.
1.) they can't, break into the iPhone since iOS 8.
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/09/ios_8_encryption_why_apple_won_t_unlock_your_iphone_for_the_police.html

2.) the fbi WANTS a back door.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on February 20, 2016, 04:22:47 PM
why doesn't the GOV ask FORD for a back door to access live audio record of the couple while fleeing  ??? The SUV has Onstar which has a microphone in it, should be fairly simple to create a back door for something that doesnt exist to be created .....






(http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy310/SICsupraman/interdasting.jpg)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: sync pulse on February 20, 2016, 05:18:09 PM
Every telecom company from Western Union on forward have instantly assisted the U. S. Government in their intelligence gathering.

During the Naval treaty Conference in the 1920’s, Western Union provided copies of cablegrams of the delegates to decryptors in the War Department…
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 20, 2016, 06:19:29 PM
why doesn't the GOV ask FORD for a back door to access live audio record of the couple while fleeing  ??? The SUV has Onstar which has a microphone in it, should be fairly simple to create a back door for something that doesnt exist to be created .....
Exactly this ^
this isn't CSI cyber.



Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Schnauzer on February 20, 2016, 06:30:08 PM
Quote
The Obama administration told a magistrate judge Friday it would be willing to allow Apple to retain possession of and later destroy specialized software it was ordered to create to help federal authorities hack into the encrypted iPhone belong to Syed Rizwan Farook.

 "Apple may maintain custody of the software, destroy it after its purpose under the order has been served, refuse to disseminate it outside of Apple and make clear to the world that it does not apply to other devices or users without lawful court orders," the Justice Department told Judge Sheri Pym. "No one outside Apple would have access to the software required by the order unless Apple itself chose to share it."
 


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/20/doj-would-allow-apple-to-keep-or-destroy-software-to-help-fbi-hack-iphone.html   (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/20/doj-would-allow-apple-to-keep-or-destroy-software-to-help-fbi-hack-iphone.html)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: TuHolmes on February 20, 2016, 06:32:08 PM
What part of it doesn't exist does everyone not fucking understand?

Damn people are stupid when it comes to technology.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Never1AShow on February 20, 2016, 08:25:02 PM
What part of it doesn't exist does everyone not fucking understand?

Damn people are stupid when it comes to technology.

Let someone say they cannot do it or do not have it under oath, until then, it's just bullshit.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Never1AShow on February 21, 2016, 06:47:52 AM
No, they haven't. In the previous cases where the government asked for information from locked phones, Apple assisted because they could retrieve info without unlocking  That isn't possible with the current OS.

Yes, they have.  The government has for years been having Apple open locked phones for them.  Just because they changed the kind of lock to a combination rather than a key lock doesn't mean they haven't been opening phones for the govt for years.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 21, 2016, 07:12:41 AM
Let someone say they cannot do it or do not have it under oath, until then, it's just bullshit.
you are kind of ignorant went it comes to technology aren't you?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Never1AShow on February 21, 2016, 12:24:35 PM
you are kind of ignorant went it comes to technology aren't you?

You are kind of ignorant when it comes to human nature and corporate profits aren't you?  If you believe Apple doesn't already have a back door you are nuts.  They don't want to be called out on their bs marketing strategy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/technology/a-yearlong-road-to-a-standoff-with-the-fbi.html?_r=0
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 12:29:46 PM
If you believe Apple doesn't already have a back door you are nuts. 

Exactly.
The smartphone has been mainly developed to track its user's activities.
Its other functions are merely add-ons.

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 21, 2016, 12:33:56 PM
You are kind of ignorant when it comes to human nature and corporate profits aren't you?  If you believe Apple doesn't already have a back door you are nuts.  They don't want to be called out on their bs marketing strategy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/technology/a-yearlong-road-to-a-standoff-with-the-fbi.html?_r=0
not at all. Only an idiot, like you, would believe that apple would have a backdoor on their devices. It is more profitable for them to not be able to unlock a device. You paranoid cunt.  :-*
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 21, 2016, 12:48:20 PM
Yes, they have.  The government has for years been having Apple open locked phones for them.  Just because they changed the kind of lock to a combination rather than a key lock doesn't mean they haven't been opening phones for the govt for years.

No, they haven't opened locked phones for the government before. The method used to retrieve information from a locked phone is not immaterial. It is the entire point of this case.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 21, 2016, 12:53:23 PM
What would be the advantage to having it, though?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 21, 2016, 12:54:55 PM
What would be the advantage to having it, though?
There is no point, it is a legal liability, hence why they got rid of it in iOS 8.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 21, 2016, 12:59:17 PM
There is no point, it is a legal liability, hence why they got rid of it in iOS 8.

Why they "got rid of it"?  You mean why they worked to destroy the ground that hackers had gained with the previous OS? 

Isn't that what happened, or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 21, 2016, 01:08:35 PM
Why they "got rid of it"?  You mean why they worked to destroy the ground that hackers had gained with the previous OS? 

Isn't that what happened, or am I missing something?
you're missing a lot. And i do believe you are too stupid to understand it, so I won't try to explain it to you. ;)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Never1AShow on February 21, 2016, 01:12:18 PM
you're missing a lot. And i do believe you are too stupid to understand it, so I won't try to explain it to you. ;)

They have it.  They know they will be forced to turn it over.  All this is just theater and a marketing ploy so they can pretend otherwise.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 21, 2016, 01:21:05 PM
you're missing a lot. And i do believe you are too stupid to understand it, so I won't try to explain it to you. ;)

And you ain't no steer, so let's leave it at that.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 21, 2016, 01:22:25 PM
They have it.  They know they will be forced to turn it over.  All this is just theater and a marketing ploy so they can pretend otherwise.

But what would be the advantage to having that?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 21, 2016, 01:28:06 PM
And you ain't no steer, so let's leave it at that.
of course i got balls, unlike you my little stupid friend.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 21, 2016, 01:33:11 PM
of course i got balls, unlike you my little stupid friend.

Fairly useless on a person such as yourself, though.

Perhaps you could exchange them for a brain.

(https://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/05146136044bc4187716dbf75edfb1122b6413-wm.jpg)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 21, 2016, 01:34:16 PM
 ;D

All in fun!
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 21, 2016, 01:50:44 PM
Fairly useless on a person such as yourself, though.

Perhaps you could exchange them for a brain.

(https://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/05146136044bc4187716dbf75edfb1122b6413-wm.jpg)
very original joke there, ::) ::) just like what i would expect from a stupid fuck like you.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Never1AShow on February 21, 2016, 01:59:26 PM
But what would be the advantage to having that?

The advantage would be you could open your employees cell phones if you wanted to, you could recover stuff that might be lost otherwise, if Tim Cook forgot his password or got locked out, you could open his phone and not get fired.  I'm sure there are lots more people could come up with.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 21, 2016, 02:03:06 PM
The advantage would be you could open your employees cell phones if you wanted to, you could recover stuff that might be lost otherwise, if Tim Cook forgot his password or got locked out, you could open his phone and not get fired.  I'm sure there are lots more people could come up with.

What locations in the phone or what type of information can you imagine them going after, that could only be had by going into the phone itself?  Can't be that much shit that could apply these days, no matter what the individual security settings.  Or is there?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 21, 2016, 02:06:00 PM
The advantage would be you could open your employees cell phones if you wanted to, you could recover stuff that might be lost otherwise, if Tim Cook forgot his password or got locked out, you could open his phone and not get fired.  I'm sure there are lots more people could come up with.

For them, you mean?  With their knowledge, you're saying?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 02:10:40 PM
http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/21/nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-refuses-to-use-apples-iphone-over-spying-concerns---report
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 21, 2016, 05:50:41 PM
They have it.  They know they will be forced to turn it over.  All this is just theater and a marketing ploy so they can pretend otherwise.

Your argument makes no linear sense. You're saying that they A) have been unlocking phones for the gov for years B)randomly decided to stop unlocking phones C) created a backdoor which, incidentally, also creates a legal liability for them D) engaged in a highly publicized fight with the government which would only draw attention to the alleged backdoor if it exists?

This is bonkers. If they've been unlocking phones for years, why randomly stop now? If they're so concerned with their marketing strategy, why create the key in the first place? Why draw attention to its eventual release to the government with a high profile court case that could possibly set a legal precedent?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 21, 2016, 10:09:31 PM
Exactly.
The smartphone has been mainly developed to track its user's activities.
Its other functions are merely add-ons.



Most people on here think Facebook is just a place to stay connected with "friends". It's probably the most advanced piece of information gathering site but people will tell you it was just made for fun.lol
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: phreak on February 22, 2016, 12:45:01 AM
Most people on here think Facebook is just a place to stay connected with "friends". It's probably the most advanced piece of information gathering site but people will tell you it was just made for fun.lol
Truth. In fact lately I have been very impressed (and horrified) at how amazing their algorithms truly are. I have a tablet that I only use at home, for only one purpose, with a facebook account that I also only use for that same purpose (strongman-related stuff). And still I am now getting friend suggestions for bitches that I fucked once or twice years ago, and live dozens of miles away. That I did not even talk to on social media! Amazing stuff, but scary.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 22, 2016, 07:18:24 AM
Most people on here think Facebook is just a place to stay connected with "friends". It's probably the most advanced piece of information gathering site but people will tell you it was just made for fun.lol

X2 One of the worst things to happen in modern society.  Why anyone in a right mind would touch FB, I'll never know

Every time I see Mark Suckerberg, I have visions of stomping him into the concrete (as the saying goes, of course).  I can't imagine disliking a person much worse than I do him.  I understand he's an empty suit at FB, but there's just something about him.

And who do you suppose fucked his chinagirl wife?  Perhaps a case of gay porn and a turkey baster, because no way a fruit loop like him is producing a child in any normal fashion.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Kim Jong Bob on February 22, 2016, 08:08:28 AM
you're missing a lot. And i do believe you are too stupid to understand it, so I won't try to explain it to you. ;)
:D
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 22, 2016, 08:12:57 AM
:D

His way of saying he can't explain it.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 22, 2016, 08:31:01 AM
:D

His way of saying he can't explain it.

See, bob. Dude is stupid as fuck. hahaha  :)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 22, 2016, 08:35:13 AM
See, bob. Dude is stupid as fuck. hahaha  :)

HTexan grasping to find Allies.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Yamcha on February 22, 2016, 09:05:05 AM
North Korea would be a powerful ally
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 22, 2016, 10:35:01 AM
Most people on here think Facebook is just a place to stay connected with "friends". It's probably the most advanced piece of information gathering site but people will tell you it was just made for fun.lol

This has nothing to do with what most people have been arguing in this thread and it's hardly a secret. Most people who use Facebook and then leave do so because of privacy concerns. Facebook isn't secretive about their information gathering.

Whether or not Facebook or Apple products gather a ton of information is not the issue. Whether that information is readily accessible by the government is the issue.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 22, 2016, 10:46:02 AM
This has nothing to do with what most people have been arguing in this thread and it's hardly a secret. Most people who use Facebook and then leave do so because of privacy concerns. Facebook isn't secretive about their information gathering.

Whether or not Facebook or Apple products gather a ton of information is not the issue. Whether that information is readily accessible by the government is the issue.

Wouldn't that help show what Snoman said earlier, about the government and the corporations having a reason to mix?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 22, 2016, 12:09:46 PM
HTexan grasping to find Allies.
take that dick out of your mouth when you say my name punk. :D
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 22, 2016, 12:15:07 PM
take that dick out of your mouth when you say my name punk. :D

Any particular reason you've been so preoccupied with subjects involving homosexuality in other threads in the past?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Board_SHERIF on February 22, 2016, 12:44:56 PM
2 pieces of shite organizations involved Apple and the US government..both liars and both un-trustworthy.

If you think ShitApple does not have a way to retrieve the password then you are gullible, there is a binary file some where on the ios that has the password to match what you type in, or it is on the ShitCloud. Someone at ShitApple knows this, but I am sure 99.99% believe there is no crack.

This is a marketing ploy to sell more ios's to the masses.

The default password method is the "simple" password, you then have to enable the enhance password method that has the extra protection and delete option after 10 attempts.



Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 22, 2016, 01:35:33 PM
2 pieces of shite organizations involved Apple and the US government..both liars and both un-trustworthy.

If you think ShitApple does not have a way to retrieve the password then you are gullible, there is a binary file some where on the ios that has the password to match what you type in, or it is on the ShitCloud. Someone at ShitApple knows this, but I am sure 99.99% believe there is no crack.

This is a marketing ploy to sell more ios's to the masses.

The default password method is the "simple" password, you then have to enable the enhance password method that has the extra protection and delete option after 10 attempts.



No publicly traded company would use this as a marketing ploy. Half of the people who have heard about this think Apple is aiding  terrorists, hence the public letter discussed earlier. There aren't enough people interested in security to the level of wiping a phone if an incorrect password is guessed for this to have much significance as a marketing ploy for one of the largest companies in the world.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Board_SHERIF on February 22, 2016, 01:50:40 PM

No publicly traded company would use this as a marketing ploy. Half of the people who have heard about this think Apple is aiding  terrorists, hence the public letter discussed earlier. There aren't enough people interested in security to the level of wiping a phone if an incorrect password is guessed for this to have much significance as a marketing ploy for one of the largest companies in the world.


What about the millions of criminals and terrorists ? no interest in this??
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on February 22, 2016, 01:58:14 PM
X2 One of the worst things to happen in modern society.  Why anyone in a right mind would touch FB, I'll never know

Every time I see Mark Suckerberg, I have visions of stomping him into the concrete (as the saying goes, of course).  I can't imagine disliking a person much worse than I do him.  I understand he's an empty suit at FB, but there's just something about him.

And who do you suppose fucked his chinagirl wife?  Perhaps a case of gay porn and a turkey baster, because no way a fruit loop like him is producing a child in any normal fashion.

Zuckerberg is just the face of Facebook. He helps give it that "innocent" look. Just listen to the kid talk. Certainly not someone who is in charge of such a massive company. As far as the China wife, many have stated that Suckerberg is hung like a light switch and is very insecure about it. Not unlike IFBB's very own Gary Strydom who moved to an Asian country so he would "fit it".lol
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 22, 2016, 02:07:32 PM

What about the millions of criminals and terrorists ? no interest in this??


A fraction  of the people who don't use their iphones to break the law.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: cart@@n on February 22, 2016, 05:46:04 PM
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Never1AShow on February 22, 2016, 07:36:51 PM
Your argument makes no linear sense. You're saying that they A) have been unlocking phones for the gov for years B)randomly decided to stop unlocking phones C) created a backdoor which, incidentally, also creates a legal liability for them D) engaged in a highly publicized fight with the government which would only draw attention to the alleged backdoor if it exists?

This is bonkers. If they've been unlocking phones for years, why randomly stop now? If they're so concerned with their marketing strategy, why create the key in the first place? Why draw attention to its eventual release to the government with a high profile court case that could possibly set a legal precedent?

It is well documented that they have been opening phones for years and only recently stopped.  Christ get a Google.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: TuHolmes on February 22, 2016, 10:04:33 PM
It is well documented that they have been opening phones for years and only recently stopped.  Christ get a Google.

Opened phones on vulnerable operating systems. You could open those too. Nothing special.

They changed security methods and schemes and you can no longer do so.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 23, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
Opened phones on vulnerable operating systems. You could open those too. Nothing special.

They changed security methods and schemes and you can no longer do so.

Not even that. A lot of the media have been misreporting that phones were opened for the government when that isn't what actually happened. Apple was aware of certain vulnerabilities and was able to access some information without unlocking the phones.   When the media claim that Apple has unlocked 70 phones, they are talking about the times when Apple has extracted limited data from locked phones and handed over stuff from icloud. They never unlocked phones.

 In other news, Bill Gates spoke out in support of the gov't in a Financial Times interview. He's backtracking now and saying that he was misquoted. 
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on February 23, 2016, 01:54:58 PM
http://m.worldstarhiphop.com/apple/video.php?v=wshhd9NRI2B9ajz46c8i
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Board_SHERIF on February 24, 2016, 06:22:41 AM
http://m.worldstarhiphop.com/apple/video.php?v=wshhd9NRI2B9ajz46c8i

McAfee software is a joke...yet another disgusting liar has joined the party.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on February 26, 2016, 07:35:27 AM
bump for pellius
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Spike on February 26, 2016, 10:48:52 AM

No publicly traded company would use this as a marketing ploy. Half of the people who have heard about this think Apple is aiding  terrorists, hence the public letter discussed earlier. There aren't enough people interested in security to the level of wiping a phone if an incorrect password is guessed for this to have much significance as a marketing ploy for one of the largest companies in the world.


when the price of your stock is rock solid and marketing for Apple is much different than samsung or a even Mercedes - Apple is more like tesla - $200/share, little to no main stream marketing, as long as hipsters like you your good type

Apple stock isnt somethign that changes a lot - watch the stock after they have a press release or one of their famous unveilings

marketing for apple is more word of mouth - they just want people talkign about them and if its  a "me against the US govt' ploy then they get on the right side of ball when people start talking
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 26, 2016, 12:22:00 PM

when the price of your stock is rock solid and marketing for Apple is much different than samsung or a even Mercedes - Apple is more like tesla - $200/share, little to no main stream marketing, as long as hipsters like you your good type

Apple stock isnt somethign that changes a lot - watch the stock after they have a press release or one of their famous unveilings

marketing for apple is more word of mouth - they just want people talkign about them and if its  a "me against the US govt' ploy then they get on the right side of ball when people start talking

Apple is one of the most aggressively marketed brands in America. They spend well over a billion $$ annually and that's right in line with Samsung. On top of  that, their image is as meticulously curated as any brand  this side of Disney. Just based on its sheer size Apple couldn't be all about hipsters, but the fact that you would link hipsters' perceived shared tastes with the image of America's largest corporation (by market cap) goes to show how meticulously Apple manages its image.

From a marketing standpoint, the public is hearing two different stories: Apple vs. gov't and Apple supporting terrorists. The potential misunderstanding this could create with the public is not something any big brand would welcome.  
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: mr.turbo on February 26, 2016, 12:50:02 PM
forgive me if this has been posted but iphone already has backdoors so how can this be an issue?

the FBI can get the data from NSA so what exactly is up with this? All these companies have rolled over a long time ago..hmmm I gather the spy agencies don't want the FBI stepping on their toes. Must be some fined grained legal issues going on. Hard to summon much concern over it.

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: mr.turbo on February 26, 2016, 01:03:11 PM
well after spending five minutes on it. I think it comes down to legal precedent.

at the moment NSA can access all data without warrant and does so.

this case includes an order from a judge, so it's been authorized with some oversight, it goes into public record and so on. Basically the old fashioned way of doing police work (pre 911).  This is why NSA opposes the FBI because it would compel them to do the same and adhere to a legal process. Or not who knows, it seems nobody cares about the fact that NSA is basically above oversight. Making more sense now.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Las Vegas on February 26, 2016, 05:38:37 PM
well after spending five minutes on it. I think it comes down to legal precedent.

at the moment NSA can access all data without warrant and does so.

this case includes an order from a judge, so it's been authorized with some oversight, it goes into public record and so on. Basically the old fashioned way of doing police work (pre 911).  This is why NSA opposes the FBI because it would compel them to do the same and adhere to a legal process. Or not who knows, it seems nobody cares about the fact that NSA is basically above oversight. Making more sense now.


Have you read something which says this, specifically?
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on February 28, 2016, 11:26:05 AM
They have it.  They know they will be forced to turn it over.  All this is just theater and a marketing ploy so they can pretend otherwise.

I've responded to a few posters in this thread in regards to why I think it's short-sighted to think Apple would use this as a marketing gimmick. There's another thread covering some of the issues in this thread and a poster in that thread posted this:

Pellius, legally this is a very simple issue.  The FBI obtained a search warrant, issued by a judge to search the contents of ONE phone.
The warrant was issued based on probable cause, specific facts and specific circumstances related to one cell phone that was operated by one person. The FBI realized that they have only so many chances to try to crack the phones passcode. This is because apple phones have a security measure which erases the phones content if the wrong password is put in ten times. The FBI has asked apple to disable their security measure on this one phone so they can gather information about the couple who murdered 14 people in san bernadino.

This is not about every phone, it is not about making apple hand over their technology to the FBI, it is not about carte blanch authority for the FBI to search all phones. The FBI is not asking apple to decipher the passwword. All of that would not be authorized by a search warrant.

The FBI is asking apple to deisable the security measure on this one phone related to one specific event. It is not setting a precedent it's the standard by which all search warant have been issued for decades.  The FBI already has the warrant they are asking for apples help.

Oddly enough if apple wins and the judge says apple cant be forced to unlock the security on this phone, then the FBI will have to figure out a way to break into the phone and if they do, they will then have the back door entry into everyphone. The FBI obviously has a strong case to search the phone. The judge may say to the FBI that they have the search warrant its upto tjhe FBI to figure it out on their own. I think apple picked the wrong battle to fight though in this particular matter. In my opinion apple looks like shit now for not helping out. I'd like to know what the family members of those 14 people think.


The poster has posted in this thread and it doesn't seem like he is that up on the intricacies of the case, which is why I didn't bother responding. But I did want to post this quote for you and the others who believe Apple is using this as a marketing ploy because, like I've said in other posts, I think this is probably how the majority of consumers (especially American consumers) who aren't following this case closely feel.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Al Doggity on March 07, 2016, 09:08:18 AM
John McAfee Lying About Iphone Hack

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/john-mcafee-lied-iphone-apple-fbi/


Cliffs: After elaborating on his hacking technique, experts reviewed it and said it would not work. McAfee later admitted that his offer was a publicity gimmick and he was trying to draw public attention towards what he considers the government's overreaching. Cites the 700,000 views to his youtube interview as proof that it worked.

Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: WannaBePro on March 07, 2016, 09:20:02 AM
Exclusive video of FBI trying to crack Apple security (https://www.facebook.com/TheOther98/videos/1260294453981530/)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Board_SHERIF on March 07, 2016, 07:13:57 PM
John McAfee Lying About Iphone Hack

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/john-mcafee-lied-iphone-apple-fbi/


Cliffs: After elaborating on his hacking technique, experts reviewed it and said it would not work. McAfee later admitted that his offer was a publicity gimmick and he was trying to draw public attention towards what he considers the government's overreaching. Cites the 700,000 views to his youtube interview as proof that it worked.




As I said earlier in thread..Mcaffee sofware is a joke..the muscletech of the pc world.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on March 07, 2016, 07:27:32 PM

As I said earlier in thread..Mcaffee sofware is a joke..the muscletech of the pc world.
He lied about the software he could write and the ease of breaking into encryption.
Not the methodology used to crack software and hardware. The problem is time and resources.
A universal master key, is overstepping. The two losers of the smartphone market pretty much already have something similar in place. Blackberry already has one, Microsoft spys and folds like paper.
Hopefully, the 2 giants hold strong.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on March 17, 2016, 12:03:55 PM
Apples Legal Doc submitted to the Courts .





https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2762120-Reply-Brief-in-Support-of-Apple-s-Motion-to-Vacate.html#document/p1 (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2762120-Reply-Brief-in-Support-of-Apple-s-Motion-to-Vacate.html#document/p1)
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: Nails on March 28, 2016, 03:37:10 PM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-unlocks-terrorists-iphone-without-apples-help-1459202353 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-unlocks-terrorists-iphone-without-apples-help-1459202353)

FBI Opens San Bernardino Shooter’s iPhone; U.S. Drops Demand on Apple



WASHINGTON—The Justice Department filed court papers Monday saying it had cracked the iPhone of a San Bernardino, Calif., terrorist, seeking to drop its legal case to force Apple Inc. to help them unlock it.

The move signals a temporary retreat from a high-stakes fight between Washington and Silicon Valley over privacy and security in the digital age.

The filing short-circuits a pending legal showdown over whether the government can force technology companies to write software to aid in criminal investigations, but it is unlikely to avert the long-term conflict between federal agents and technology executives over how secure electronic communications should be, and what firms should have to do to help the government access their customers’ data.

The decision by federal officials to drop the case comes a week after prosecutors bowed out of a planned courtroom showdown, telling the magistrate judge in the case that they may have found a new way to access the phone without Apple’s help.

In Monday’s filing, prosecutors revealed the method had in fact worked and Apple’s assistance was no longer necessary.

Justice Department spokeswoman Melanie Newman said the FBI “is currently reviewing the information on the phone, consistent with standard investigatory procedures.”

She also signaled that while this particular phone is no longer at issue, the broader fight over encryption-protected technology is likely to continue. “It remains a priority for the government to ensure that law enforcement can obtain crucial digital information to protect national security and public safety, either with cooperation from relevant parties, or through the court system when cooperation fails. We will continue to pursue all available options for this mission, including seeking the cooperation of manufacturers and relying upon the creativity of both the public and private sectors,” she said.

​An Apple spokesman didn’t immediately comment.

The dispute between technology companies such as Apple and the federal government has been brewing for more than a year. Firms increasingly have used encryption as a default setting for their products, and they have declined to help law-enforcement agencies open suspect devices in some cases.

That conflict came to a head in December, when investigators recovered the phone of Syed Rizwan Farook after he and his wife opened fire with rifles on a holiday office party in San Bernardino, killing 14 and injuring 22. Investigators couldn’t open the iPhone because of security features that don’t allow more than 10 guesses of an iPhone’s passcode.

The Justice Department eventually got a court order compelling Apple to help them bypass the passcode security features. The company fought the order, setting the stage for a possibly precedent-setting court fight on privacy.

As the two sides geared up for that fight, FBI officials said they had exhausted all possible avenues of getting into the phone before getting the court order against Apple.

In the public and legal debate that followed, the FBI argued the law doesn’t support a company making phones that are “warrant proof”—unable to be opened even with a signed order from a judge. Apple said it was fighting the order because to do what the FBI wanted would create a new security vulnerability for untold millions of iPhone users.

The filing doesn’t indicate what method the FBI used to access the data on the phone, nor does it say what, if any, evidence related to the attacks was found on it. ​

Officials have been tight-lipped about who offered the FBI a solution to the technical challenge, and how. A person familiar with the case said the method wasn’t developed by a government agency, but by a private entity.

The government is still engaged in a broader fight with Apple over what role, if any, the company should play in helping investigators access data on their customers’ phones.

Previous court filings indicated prosecutors were seeking similar orders against Apple involving at least 15 phones seized as part of unrelated criminal investigations around the country.

State and local prosecutors, most notably Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance, have also pressed technology companies to help detectives access data on suspects’ phones.
Title: Re: Apple vs. The Government
Post by: HTexan on March 28, 2016, 07:42:30 PM
http://9to5mac.com/2016/03/23/apple-cloud-infrastructure-servers-snooping/

Report: Apple developing at least 6 cloud infrastructure projects incl. servers to prevent snooping


Following two reports earlier this month detailing Apple’s deal to move iCloud partly to Google’s Cloud Platform, as well as the company’s efforts at building out its own cloud infrastructure, The Information today offers new details on the projects.

Adding to a report from VentureBeat earlier this week, today’s report offers more details on what Apple is doing with“Project McQueen” that could see the company replacing third-party vendors with more of its own cloud infrastructure. The Information reports that Project McQueen is actually just one of at least six internal efforts at Apple including building its own servers, networking equipment, and “systems that could one day help developers to power their apps.”

Apple has at least six projects underway to develop cloud infrastructure, including one codenamed Project McQueen designed to build its own data storage systems. Others include projects to build servers, networking equipment and systems that could one day help developers to power their apps. Apple can’t move off rival cloud services entirely until all the cloud elements are ready, although it will be able to limit its dependence on others if some of these were completed.

And when it comes to building its own servers, the report claims that Apple is partly motivated by the fact that it believes the servers it receives from third-parties have been “intercepted during shipping, with additional chips and firmware added to them by unknown third parties in order to make them vulnerable to infiltration.”

At least part of the driver for this is to ensure that the servers are secure. Apple has long suspected that servers it ordered from the traditional supply chain were intercepted during shipping, with additional chips and firmware added to them by unknown third parties in order to make them vulnerable to infiltration, according to a person familiar with the matter. At one point, Apple even assigned people to take photographs of motherboards and annotate the function of each chip, explaining why it was supposed to be there. Building its own servers with motherboards it designed would be the most surefire way for Apple to prevent unauthorized snooping via extra chips.

That gives another interesting angle to Apple’s motivation for wanting to develop and run its own cloud, especially given the recent controversy with the FBI over the San Bernardino case and encryption on Apple devices. But in the meantime Apple will still rely on third-parties like Google, Microsoft, Amazon and others to power iCloud. The report adds that sources with knowledge of Apple’s projects say the company is still likely “years away” from being able to leave its third-party partners entirely.

The full story from The Information (behind paywall) has more on the projects.