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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Palumboism on March 12, 2016, 07:29:28 AM
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With all the pro socialist talk on this board, I think it's important to balance it with some great free market thinking. This thread is dedicated to Ludwig Von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Milton Friedman.
Capitalism needs neither propaganda nor apostles. Its achievements speak for themselves. Capitalism delivers the goods.
Ludwig von Mises
I welcome all Trolls, Meatheads, Socialists, Flat Earthers, and Tinfoil Hat wearers.
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TA will be here soon to deliver a gigantic red-capped rebuttal with his years of non-working, trust-fund-baby knowledge.
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Milton Friedman schools a smug True Adonis type. I would love to see Milton debate True Adonis!
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If you're born in this country you're already in the 1%. Travel to Africa, Indonesia, Honduras, Lao and see what poverty really looks like. It's easy to complain about capitalism when you're living in the comfortable world it created.
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With all the pro socialist talk on this board, I think it's important to balance it with some great free market thinking. This thread is dedicated to Ludwig Von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Milton Friedman.
Capitalism needs neither propaganda nor apostles. Its achievements speak for themselves. Capitalism delivers the goods.
Ludwig von Mises
Queer quote to proselytize with.
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In their day, they were considered Liberals. ;)
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Capitalism is essentially a system of mass production for the
satisfaction of the needs of the masses. It pours a horn of plenty
upon the common man. It has raised the average standard of
living to a height never dreamed of in earlier ages. It has made
accessible to millions of people enjoyments which a few generations
ago were only within the reach of a small élite.
Ludwig Von Mises
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In their day, they were considered Liberals. ;)
Yes, but the definition of that word has changed to mean the opposite of what it used to mean.
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Used to the conditions of a capitalistic environment, the
average American takes it for granted that every year business
makes something new and better accessible to him. Looking
backward upon the years of his own life, he realizes that many
implements that were totally unknown in the days of his youth
and many others which at that time could be enjoyed only by
a small minority are now standard equipment of almost every
household. He is fully confident that this trend will prevail also
in the future. He simply calls it the “American way of life” and
does not give serious thought to the question of what made this
continuous improvement in the supply of material goods possible.
Lugwig Von Mises
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“In a much quoted passage in his inaugural address, President Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you -- ask what you can do for your country." It is a striking sign of the temper of our times that the controversy about this passage centered on its origin and not on its content. Neither half of the statement expresses a relation between the citizen and his government that is worthy of the ideals of free men in a free society. The paternalistic "what your country can do for you" implies that government is the patron, the citizen the ward, a view that is at odds with the free man's belief in his own responsibility for his own destiny. The organismic, "what you can do for your country" implies that government is the master or the deity, the citizen, the servant or the votary. To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. He is proud of a common heritage and loyal to common traditions. But he regards government as a means, an instrumentality, neither a grantor of favors and gifts, nor a master or god to be blindly worshiped and served. He recognizes no national goal except as it is the consensus of the goals that the citizens severally serve. He recognizes no national purpose except as it is the consensus of the purposes for which the citizens severally strive.”
― Milton Friedman
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Economics must not be relegated to classrooms and statistical
offices and must not be left to esoteric circles. It is the philosophy
of human life and action and concerns everybody and
everything. It is the pith of civilization and of man’s human
existence.
Ludwig Von Mises
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TA will be here soon to deliver a gigantic red-capped rebuttal with his years of non-working, trust-fund-baby knowledge.
TA is a modern day, online version of Samuel Clemens. :)
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Milton Friedman schools a smug True Adonis type. I would love to see Milton debate True Adonis!
Friedman delivered the goods, he had his thoughts and he debated them, he spoke about them and actually conversed. Do you think you would ever see something like this clip (there are tons of others) starring a Paul Krugman or Thomas Friedman, Greenspan, Yellen, Bernanke, Summers etc?
No way. Not in a million years.
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With all the pro socialist talk on this board, I think it's important to balance it with some great free market thinking. This thread is dedicated to Ludwig Von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Milton Friedman.
Capitalism needs neither propaganda nor apostles. Its achievements speak for themselves. Capitalism delivers the goods.
Ludwig von Mises
yes let us get even more free markets so we can have more crashes like lehman brothers', which kick started the 2008 financial crisis. ::)
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yes let us get even more free markets so we can have more crashes like lehman brothers', which kick started the 2008 financial crisis. ::)
Uh, "Free Markets" didn't cause that.
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yes let us get even more free markets so we can have more crashes like lehman brothers', which kick started the 2008 financial crisis. ::)
The root of the financial crisis was the housing bubble. Friedman would say the bubble and resulting crash were caused by government intervention. Don't forget, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are run by the government. . Ask yourself, what caused this housing bubble? Who was supplying all this easy money for mortgages and why is the government involved in the mortgage market to begin with?
“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost come in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.”
― Milton Friedman
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Uh, "Free Markets" didn't cause that.
the banks were able and allowed to create the subprime loans and the private rating agencies gave out AAA ratings that were not correct. Tell me how I am wrong.
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All the talk about the so-called unspeakable horror of early
capitalism can be refuted by a single statistic: precisely in these
years in which British capitalism developed, precisely in the
age called the Industrial Revolution in England, in the years
from 1760 to 1830, precisely in those years the population of
England doubled.
Friedrich Hayek
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the banks were able and allowed to create the subprime loans and the private rating agencies gave out AAA ratings that were not correct. Tell me how I am wrong.
Now you're on to something!
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one name: John Kenneth Galbraith
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Milton Friedman schools a smug True Adonis type. I would love to see Milton debate True Adonis!
I posted this a few weeks ago. That's a young Michael Moore that Friedman is dismantling. Needless to say after that embarrassment Moore went into a life long depression and became a delusional fatass.
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The free market, as espoused by Friedman et al., doesn't exist outside of an economics textbook. Hth.
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The free market, as espoused by Friedman et al., doesn't exist outside of an economics textbook. Hth.
Sure, explain that to every successful business owner in America. The economics being taught in most of our universities is based mostly on delution which is why our economic systems are going to shit.
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The free market, as espoused by Friedman et al., doesn't exist outside of an economics textbook. Hth.
thank you
as stated prior. *free market* dogma repeated obsessively does not overcome the burden of facts
please show us the real world examples of these theories and we can discuss.
take your time with it. looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
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thank you
as stated prior. *free market* dogma repeated obsessively does not overcome the burden of facts
please show us the real world examples of these theories and we can discuss.
take your time with it. looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Serious question. Do you have you're own business, work at a job or are you a student?
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Serious question. Do you have you're own business, work at a job or are you a student?
you seem to have strong feelings about this.
do you have any examples of free market theory working in the real world?
looking forward to seeing this.
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you seem to have strong feelings about this.
do you have any examples of free market theory working in the real world?
looking forward to seeing this.
So you won't answer. Thanks.
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So you won't answer. Thanks.
sorry but this is a thread about intellectuals
palumboism does not need your *help* with this
thanks for your contributions
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sorry but this is a thread about intellectuals
palumboism does not need your *help* with this
thanks for your contributions
You mean it's not about common core where 4x3=11?
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sorry but this is a thread about intellectuals
palumboism does not need your *help* with this
thanks for your contributions
Your non-answer speaks volumes.
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Your non-answer speaks volumes.
I have a business(s).
do you have a point?
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the banks were able and allowed to create the subprime loans and the private rating agencies gave out AAA ratings that were not correct. Tell me how I am wrong.
And then the government bailed them out with taxpayers money, a socialist move, instead of allowing the failed businesses to collapse in true free-market capitalist style where survival of the fittest principles are supposed to ensure the most efficient and best survive.
America follows Corporatism, where government is involved with big business.
However, despite this it probably still is one of the most free-market capitalist countries.
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I have a business(s).
do you have a point?
Bullshit. Prove it.
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The real bosses, in the capitalist system of market economy,
are the consumers. They, by their buying and by their abstention
from buying, decide who should own the capital and run
the plants. They determine what should be produced and in what quantity and quality. Their attitudes result either in profit
or in loss for the enterpriser. They make poor men rich and rich
men poor. They are no easy bosses.
Ludwig Von Mises
The consumers are merciless. They never buy in order to
benefit a less efficient producer and to protect him against the
consequences of his failure to manage better. They want to be
served as well as possible. And the working of the capitalist
system forces the entrepreneur to obey the orders issued by the
consumers.
Ludwig Von Mises
Go into the home of the average American family and you
will see for whom the wheels of the machines are turning.
Ludwig Von Mises
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Bullshit. Prove it.
i also have a boat bitch
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I posted this a few weeks ago. That's a young Michael Moore that Friedman is dismantling. Needless to say after that embarrassment Moore went into a life long depression and became a delusional fatass.
that's not Michael Moore
who's the deluisional fatass again?
fuck having coach on your team, not good.
free market principles are something interesting to talk about in economics but that's about it
is anybody curious to know how the world really works?!? I'm here to help.
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that's not Michael Moore
who's the deluisional fatass again?
fuck having coach on your team, not good.
free market principles are something interesting to talk about in economics but that's about it
is anybody curious to know how the world really works?!? I'm here to help.
hahaha, oh boy. Please tell us how the world works. No way in hell you own a business. Most own businesses to make money not have it taken from them. This is a fact. It's all about the bottom line. Continue. I REALLY want to hear this.
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that's not Michael Moore
who's the deluisional fatass again?
fuck having coach on your team, not good.
free market principles are something interesting to talk about in economics but that's about it
is anybody curious to know how the world really works?!? I'm here to help.
And while you're at it tell us how Friedman is wrong.
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And while you're at it tell us how Friedman is wrong.
as someone else already pointed out the concept of free markets in the US only applies to business not deemed *too big to fail*. Major financial institutions obey a different set of rules for example. The economy is largely controlled by the state and they get to decide who to bail out and provide corporate welfare, cheap loans etc. Is this news? I don't think so.
Consumers sitting in their living rooms are watching television so that they can be driven to consume whatever it is the marketing industry deems appropriate. As if joe schmoe fatass sitting on the couch is informed enough to have a say over anything. That's exactly how it's supposed to be in what is sometimes called a "state capitalist" system.
Puff out your cheeks, throw a temper tantrum, stamp your feet. The free market crap is 100% dogma and no matter how many times you quote milton friedman it's not going to change the way the world really works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
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as someone else already pointed out the concept of free markets in the US only applies to business not deemed *too big to fail*. Major financial institutions obey a different set of rules for example. The economy is largely controlled by the state and they get to decide who to bail out and provide corporate welfare, cheap loans etc. Is this news? I don't think so.
Consumers sitting in their living rooms are watching television so that they can be driven to consume whatever it is the marketing industry deems appropriate. As if joe schmoe fatass sitting on the couch is informed enough to have a say over anything. That's exactly how it's supposed to be in what is sometimes called a "state capitalist" system.
Puff out your cheeks, throw a temper tantrum, stamp your feet. The free market crap is 100% dogma and no matter how many times you quote milton friedman it's not going to change the way the world really works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
You've made NO mention of small business.
lol....small business mostly drives the economy as well UE. You kill small business you kill the economy (as we are seeing). It's really as simple as that. You can't keep taxing the shit out of small businesses while expecting to raise the minimum wage to $15 if it's not built into their overhead. If it is raised to "$15" then the cost of goods and services HAVE to rise in order to cover the costs. When this happens business go under (as we are seeing) jobs and businesses are shut down and lost. What happens then? People start to rely on gov assitance (which is exactly what libs and communists like Sanders want). It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. But then again you and Sanders are no geniuses.
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free market is not capital cronyism
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You've made NO mention of small business.
lol....small business mostly drives the economy as well UE. You kill small business you kill the economy (as we are seeing). It's really as simple as that. You can't keep taxing the shit out of small businesses while expecting to raise the minimum wage to $15 if it's not built into their overhead. If it is raised to "$15" then the cost of goods and services HAVE to rise in order to cover the costs. When this happens business go under (as we are seeing) jobs and businesses are shut down and lost. What happens then? People start to rely on gov assitance (which is exactly what libs and communists like Sanders want). It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. But then again you and Sanders are no geniuses.
Hmm.. well you just made up an imaginary scenario with a handful of logical leaps. Where do you get this information? Would be more compelling if it was based on something that happened in the real world...still waiting on that real world example, looking forward to see this.
here's the key, remaining open to new sources of information.
If you fanatically exclude everything that doesn't not strictly conform to your doctrine, you get into trouble. For example, have a look at the third world, and have a look at the rich first world countries and guess which ones have followed the neoliberal *free market* rules most closely. It's very striking the last 40 years or so.
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“Competition is a sin” – John D. Rockefeller Sr.
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“Competition is a sin” – John D. Rockefeller Sr.
1. You don't own a business. No how no way.
2. Stop making an ass of yourself. I'm not being a dick when I say that. You are absolutely clueless. You seriously sound like a brainwashed Econ student. I mean this with all sincerity.
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Sure, explain that to every successful business owner in America. The economics being taught in most of our universities is based mostly on delution which is why our economic systems are going to shit.
This thread is about the free market advocates Ludwig von Mises, Milton Friedman, and other economists of their ilk, no?
I get it....as an entrepreneur, you view every single tax to be an unjust penalty, robbing you of what you have worked for. That doesn't change the fact that the "free market" concept, as originally conceived by Adam Smith and later adopted by the Chicago/Austrian Schools of Economics has never--and will never--existed as anything beyond a theoretical framework.
I suggest you read a book or two so that your worldview can become a bit more nuanced than "taxes = bad".
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This thread is about the free market advocates Ludwig von Mises, Milton Friedman, and other economists of their ilk, no?
I get it....as an entrepreneur, you view every single tax to be an unjust penalty, robbing you of what you have worked for. That doesn't change the fact that the "free market" concept, as originally conceived by Adam Smith and later adopted by the Chicago/Austrian Schools of Economics has never--and will never--existed as anything beyond a theoretical framework.
I suggest you read a book or two so that your worldview can become a bit more nuanced than "taxes = bad".
As a business owner I can probably say I've read more on business than you have. Feel free to point out where I've said all taxes are bad.
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Now you're on to something!
I have nothing against free markets. I have something against any political system becoming extreme in terms of ideology.
Extreme socialism is bad and extreme laissez faire capitalism is also bad IMO.
Our globalized world today is so complex that a dogmatic and rigorous ideological ruling of a country is not beneficial.
Yes, rich people need to pay low taxes so they keep their motivation to work hard but austerity and lack of public health care only hurts the economy.
There are some excellent examples in this book: Stuckler & Basu - The Body Economic
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"Yes, rich people need to pay low taxes so they keep their motivation to work hard"
Lol, 96 % of the world works hard to be alive, survival it s the main motivation for almost all of humanity why not for the exploiters who are motivatede just by profit?
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"Yes, rich people need to pay low taxes so they keep their motivation to work hard"
Lol, 96 % of the world works hard to be alive, survival it s the main motivation for almost all of humanity why not for the exploiters who are motivatede just by profit?
Don't poor people need to stay poor so this whole thing works?
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yup. i think thats the idea
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1. You don't own a business. No how no way.
2. Stop making an ass of yourself. I'm not being a dick when I say that. You are absolutely clueless. You seriously sound like a brainwashed Econ student. I mean this with all sincerity.
It's ok to have strong feelings about something but that does not make you correct. You can huff and puff till your red in the face...we will still be waiting here patiently for a single example of the so called free market in action. You think it would be pretty easy to provide a single example given all the passion! I know... *discussion* is not your forte, perhaps someone else can provide this.
I'm sorry if these facts make you uncomfortable, again try to remain open to new sources of information.
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It's ok to have strong feelings about something but that does not make you correct. You can huff and puff till your red in the face...we will still be waiting here patiently for a single example of the so called free market in action. You think it would be pretty easy to provide a single example given all the passion! I know... *discussion* is not your forte, perhaps someone else can provide this.
I'm sorry if these facts make you uncomfortable, again try to remain open to new sources of information.
You're trolling. No one is this stupid.
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This thread is about the free market advocates Ludwig von Mises, Milton Friedman, and other economists of their ilk, no?
I get it....as an entrepreneur, you view every single tax to be an unjust penalty, robbing you of what you have worked for. That doesn't change the fact that the "free market" concept, as originally conceived by Adam Smith and later adopted by the Chicago/Austrian Schools of Economics has never--and will never--existed as anything beyond a theoretical framework.
I suggest you read a book or two so that your worldview can become a bit more nuanced than "taxes = bad".
Singapore has very low or no taxes and also Dubai.
This encourages higher investment, more businesses, more jobs and more people having more money to spend.
Socialism is an even more 'theoretical framework' than a free-market system.
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business people need to actually understand the way the real world operates. one cannot afford to indulge in such ridiculous fantasies and delusions. There's a lot of money stake, it not going to be based on something that doesn't exist.
Rockefeller knew this because he was interested in making money. There's another example. The man became the richest person in history by undermining the free market at every opportunity.
"competition is sin" I guess he was trolling.
ideological fanaticism does not prove anything.
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With all the pro socialist talk on this board, I think it's important to balance it with some great free market thinking. This thread is dedicated to Ludwig Von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Milton Friedman.
Capitalism needs neither propaganda nor apostles. Its achievements speak for themselves. Capitalism delivers the goods.
Ludwig von Mises
I welcome all Trolls, Meatheads, Socialists, Flat Earthers, and Tinfoil Hat wearers.
From a simplistic standpoint, capitalism is great. Just like any system there are those that will learn to manipulate it and with a capitalistic system, it's those with money that can control it. In a communist system it's the military regime that controls it. So on and so on....Absolute Power corrupts absolutely.
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Absolute Power corrupts absolutely.
Only if the guy was an asshole to start with.
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I would rather control my own destiny instead of a government controlling for me. This is what the left doesn't get...or maybe they and just don't have the drive or their just too fucking lazy.
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I would rather control my own destiny instead of a government controlling for me. This is what the left doesn't get...or maybe they and just don't have the drive or their just too fucking lazy.
here's the way it works, big business receives strong government support (welfare) and is therefore immune from free market discipline. They can also afford to spend money to "create" markets through aggressive ideological devices.
The other key is to impose the double standard in such a manner that those affected inflict such measures upon themselves. This is where Milton and friends come in to espouse free market dogma, to keep the *folks* confused and bewildered while they run along on their hamster wheels. The poor hardworking, downtrodden, frustrated, angry masses are subsequently left wondering why the *american dream* has not come true. Well, the truth is they've been sold wolf tickets.
*the masses*, left staring out into the abyss, wondering how they got to this point. Nothing to do with the guys who control the society. NO! The big business guys are just swell. Heroes!
No, it's the fault of mexican peasants, or some other boogeyman, get those guys!
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I would rather control my own destiny instead of a government controlling for me. This is what the left doesn't get...or maybe they and just don't have the drive or their just too fucking lazy.
You're so anti-gov but without Gov you'd be living in the wild west with no running water, plumping, paved roads, electricity etc.. A short stout man like you would be dead within a week.
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"Yes, rich people need to pay low taxes so they keep their motivation to work hard"
Lol, 96 % of the world works hard to be alive, survival it s the main motivation for almost all of humanity why not for the exploiters who are motivatede just by profit?
you are missing the point. If a multi-millionaire is taxed heavily in Sweden, he will move to e.g. Dubai or Switzerland and Sweden will be missing all the money this man paid in taxes.
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You're so anti-gov but without Gov you'd be living in the wild west with no running water, plumping, paved roads, electricity etc.. A short stout man like you would be dead within a week.
Where did I say I was anti-government? It's when government waaaay over reaches to the point to where they control your life (like mr turbo, TA, etc. wants it) is where the line has to be drawn. First and foremost my family comes first. If people are too lazy that they have to depend on the government as a means of lifelong support (like Bernie Sanders and I'm not exaggerating) then why should I contribute to this lazy society of leaches?
Don't get me wrong, there are people that need help and thy should be helped but there should be limit and not life long contribution.
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Where did I say I was anti-government? It's when government waaaay over reaches to the point to where they control your life (like mr turbo, TA, etc. wants it) is where the line has to be drawn. First and foremost my family comes first. If people are too lazy that they have to depend on the government as a means of lifelong support (like Bernie Sanders and I'm not exaggerating) then why should I contribute to this lazy society of leaches?
Don't get me wrong, there are people that need help and thy should be helped but there should be limit and not life long contribution.
That's what living in a society means. Taking care of those that can't.
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palumboism needs to make some comments
let's discuss GM it's history and the wonders of the free market
This company is hailed as the prototypical modern corporation.
Well they were allowed to run the company into the ground for many many years. Their products sucked. When the consumer runs out of money to buy their garbage, in comes the government to save their ass. Now GM is doing great again but kids in flint get to eat lead.
Rinse repeat. The wonders of the free market.
(http://www.imcdb.org/i551609.jpg)
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palumboism needs to make some comments
let's discuss GM it's history and the wonders of the free market
This company is hailed as the prototypical modern corporation.
Well they were allowed to run the company into the ground for many many years. Their products sucked. When the consumer runs out of money to buy their garbage, in comes the government to save their ass. Now GM is doing great again but kids in flint get to eat lead.
Rinse repeat. The wonders of the free market.
The GM bailout was a gov way of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Take our tax money to save how many thousands of jobs so they can lie about job growth but won't comment on the defecit and money they spent.
The same bailout for Wall Street contributed to Oil prices sky rocketing. Companies like GS didn't need it. Dumped the billions into OIL, drove up the price, doubled their money and paid it back to the gov.
The military employees over a million people. Cutting military budgets will cut into the job growth number so Obama will never do that. This "free" society has the stench of a socialist one all over it.
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The GM bailout was a gov way of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Take our tax money to save how many thousands of jobs so they can lie about job growth but won't comment on the defecit and money they spent.
The same bailout for Wall Street contributed to Oil prices sky rocketing. Companies like GS didn't need it. Dumped the billions into OIL, drove up the price, doubled their money and paid it back to the gov.
The military employees over a million people. Cutting military budgets will cut into the job growth number so Obama will never do that. This "free" society has the stench of a socialist one all over it.
right?
it's highly stinky but it's like the nose adapts to familiar stench and you don't even notice it anymore.
hopefully those positive examples will start pouring into this thread.
looking forward to seeing them.
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Exactly, that's a pretty accurate summary. I've still only got my phone just now so I can't type in any detail, but the fact of the matter is, no matter how much one advocates free market theory and believes in the principles of it - we do not have it in application. I don't get why some people fail to realise this; acknowledging this fact does not make you a leftist or hardcore socialist lol. It's just the truth.
ironically the free market stuff is pretty much ALL IDEOLOGY. Ask for some examples and you can expect some half hearted personal attacks. Then you get accused of being a socialist. Leftists demand evidence to support claims I guess.
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right?
it's highly stinky but it's like the nose adapts to familiar stench and you don't even notice it anymore.
hopefully those positive examples will start pouring into this thread.
looking forward to seeing them.
I never understand who "the not super rich" and mostly poor continue to argue about how great the free market is. Of course it's better than communism but for a free society we are surely taxed to death. Just think how often something gets taxed. Minerals sold to a metal company is taxed. They create steel and sell it which is taxed. A company takes the steel billets and presses it into sheets which is taxed when the car company buys it. They assemble a car and sell it which is taxed again. The final object is taxed 5 times before you get it. Such a fucking scam.
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I never understand who "the not super rich" and mostly poor continue to argue about how great the free market is. Of course it's better than communism but for a free society we are surely taxed to death. Just think how often something gets taxed. Minerals sold to a metal company is taxed. They create steel and sell it which is taxed. A company takes the steel billets and presses it into sheets which is taxed when the car company buys it. They assemble a car and sell it which is taxed again. The final object is taxed 5 times before you get it. Such a fucking scam.
this is the part where the constitutional experts get to chime in. The taxation thing is a whole can of worms, I'll have to defer to those fine libertarian gentlemen. haha
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palumboism needs to make some comments
let's discuss GM it's history and the wonders of the free market
This company is hailed as the prototypical modern corporation.
Well they were allowed to run the company into the ground for many many years. Their products sucked. When the consumer runs out of money to buy their garbage, in comes the government to save their ass. Now GM is doing great again but kids in flint get to eat lead.
Rinse repeat. The wonders of the free market.
(http://www.imcdb.org/i551609.jpg)
;D
I resemble that remark. The Cadillac Cimarron was a nice touch.
I actually think GM and Ford are the perfect examples of capitalism working and Alfred Sloan was a fantastic business man. GM was offering customers what they wanted when you could only get a model T in black. For years GM and Chevrolet dominated by offering more for less than the competition . In 1965 the Impala alone sold one million units. Then came the 80's and competition from the imports and the customer had more to choose from. This is capitalism working beautifully!
Not offices and bureaucrats, but big business deserves credit
for the fact that most of the families in the United States own a
motorcar and a radio set.
-Ludwig Von Mises
The bigness and the economic “power” of the railroad companies
did not impede the emergence of the motor car and the
airplane.
-Ludwig Von Mises
What makes a firm big is its success in best filling the
demands of the buyers. If the bigger enterprise did not better
serve the people than a smaller one, it would long since have
been reduced to smallness.
-Ludwig Von Mises
Big business depends entirely on the patronage of those
who buy its products: the biggest enterprises loses its power
and its influence when it loses its customers.
-Ludwig Von Mises
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Sure you're aware but Friedman held sway during the 80's. He is credited as the guru of Reaganomics.
Here's the first Japanese export which was a huge failure. The TOYOPET ;D
(http://i.cnn.net/money/galleries/2007/autos/0710/gallery.toyota_history/images/toyota_toyopet.jpg)
Been learning details of how Japan kicked Ford out of the country in order to save their auto industry. Not exactly free market rules over there either.
Bad Samaritans
The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism
By Ha-Joon Chang
However, the fact is that, had the Japanese government followed the free-trade economists back in the early 1960s, there would have been no Lexus. Toyota today would, at best, be a junior partner to some western car manufacturer, or worse, have been wiped out. The same would have been true for the entire Japanese economy. Had the country donned Friedman's Golden Straitjacket early on, Japan would have remained the third-rate industrial power that it was in the 1960s, with its income level on a par with Chile, Argentina and South Africa - it was then a country whose prime minister was insultingly dismissed as 'a transistor-radio salesman' by the French president, Charles De Gaulle. In other words, had they followed Friedman's advice, the Japanese would now not be exporting the Lexus but still be fighting over who owns which mulberry tree.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/badsamaritans.htm
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It's a free market until you infringe on it the. They sic their lawyers after you.
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Sure you're aware but Friedman held sway during the 80's. He is credited as the guru of Reaganomics.
Here's the first Japanese export which was a huge failure. The TOYOPET ;D
(http://i.cnn.net/money/galleries/2007/autos/0710/gallery.toyota_history/images/toyota_toyopet.jpg)
Been learning details of how Japan kicked Ford out of the country in order to save their auto industry. Not exactly free market rules over there either.
Bad Samaritans
The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism
By Ha-Joon Chang
However, the fact is that, had the Japanese government followed the free-trade economists back in the early 1960s, there would have been no Lexus. Toyota today would, at best, be a junior partner to some western car manufacturer, or worse, have been wiped out. The same would have been true for the entire Japanese economy. Had the country donned Friedman's Golden Straitjacket early on, Japan would have remained the third-rate industrial power that it was in the 1960s, with its income level on a par with Chile, Argentina and South Africa - it was then a country whose prime minister was insultingly dismissed as 'a transistor-radio salesman' by the French president, Charles De Gaulle. In other words, had they followed Friedman's advice, the Japanese would now not be exporting the Lexus but still be fighting over who owns which mulberry tree.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/badsamaritans.htm
What makes you think large v8 American cars would have sold so well in Japan? If only Ford could have sold the Pinto in Japan, Toyota would have been run out of business.
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What makes you think large v8 American cars would have sold so well in Japan? If only Ford could have sold the Pinto in Japan, Toyota would have been run out of business.
I'll agree that would have been ideal. :D
In other news Ford has been kicked out of Japan again!
“The TPP’s lack of any meaningful currency protections means that it will be more of the same.” We need our government to fight for companies in the global marketplace in the same manner as some other countries do. This business decision by Ford is further evidence of the impact of unfair currency manipulation.”
"The ink isn’t even dry and we are already seeing proof that this massive agreement will sell out American workers and roll back the remarkable recovery of our auto industry," Brown said.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/266981-top-senate-dem-blames-fords-exit-from-japan-on-tpp
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That's what living in a society means. Taking care of those that can't.
But not forever. As I've said before, there was time when a person was on UE or government assistance they were embarrassed and ashamed and couldn't wait to get back to WORK and get back on their feet. Now people ware it as a badge of honor. It's disgusting.
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I never understand who "the not super rich" and mostly poor continue to argue about how great the free market is. Of course it's better than communism but for a free society we are surely taxed to death. Just think how often something gets taxed. Minerals sold to a metal company is taxed. They create steel and sell it which is taxed. A company takes the steel billets and presses it into sheets which is taxed when the car company buys it. They assemble a car and sell it which is taxed again. The final object is taxed 5 times before you get it. Such a fucking scam.
And you people in America still have it relatively good too, taxes are not high compared to other countries.
In South Africa the highest bracket is 45% and you don't even have to earn a large amount, even in dollar terms to get taxed that.
Plus VAT of 14%, banks charges, property tax, high fuel tax, inheritance tax, transfer duty tax, 'capital gains' tax, donations tax and the list never ends.
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this thread needs pellius
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Socialism is a system of theft until there is nothing left to steal and everyone is poorer.
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this thread needs pellius
Shut your fucking mouth
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The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is the way capitalism is practiced. Meaning classism, racism, gender based biases. These interfere with capitalism being practiced fairly in this country. Since it will never be practiced fairly in this country because Anglo-American don't want the "system" changed, then another system will be best practiced. I like capitalism in theory but I don't like it in America.
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The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is the way capitalism is practiced. Meaning classism, racism, gender based biases. These interfere with capitalism being practiced fairly in this country. Since it will never be practiced fairly in this country because Anglo-American don't want the "system" changed, then another system will be best practiced. I like capitalism in theory but I don't like it in America.
Capitalism operated inside a vacuum is ideal. But it's a system that many learned to dominate, mostly in that the more money you gain, the more you can manipulate the system in your favor.
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Capitalism operated inside a vacuum is ideal. But it's a system that many learned to dominate, mostly in that the more money you gain, the more you can manipulate the system in your favor.
The invisible hand of the market is replaced with the not so invisible hand of government intervention.
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The price system, according to Hayek, is remarkably effective in communicating an immense quantity of practical knowledge through a set of numbers. Furthermore, free-market competition enables producers and consumers to discover what the optimal prices and costs for products ought to be.