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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: SF1900 on April 28, 2016, 08:36:47 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/28/us/baltimore-13-year-old-shot/
CNN)Baltimore police on Thursday defended the shooting a day before of a 13-year-old carrying a replica gun, saying authorities had little option but to pursue the boy when they saw him walking down the street with what looked like a deadly handgun.
"I would argue our police officers were compelled to act when they saw that 13-year-old with a gun in his hand," Baltimore Police Commissioner Kevin Davis told reporters.
"I would argue our police officers were compelled to act when they saw that 13-year-old with a gun in his hand," Baltimore Police Commissioner Kevin Davis told reporters."
Two plainclothes detectives, one male and one female, were returning from a strategy session on how to deal with a recent spate of gun violence when they spotted the teen walking down the street, Davis said.
They identified themselves and ordered him to drop the gun, but the boy ran for about 150 yards with the officers in pursuit, Davis said.
A witness interviewed by both CNN affiliate WBAL-TV and by the police said the boy turned back toward the officers with the gun in his hands before he was shot.
"I heard him yell, 'It's not real,' like twice, and that quick, the male officer shot him twice in the leg," said the man, whom the station identified only as Bryan.
One of the two officers, a 12-year-veteran named Thomas Smith, shot the teenager twice, once in the leg and once in the shoulder, according to Davis.
The teen is expected to recover from his injuries, police said.
What police at first thought could have been a gun turned out to be a Daisy Powerline 340 .177-caliber BB gun. The weapon is meant to be used for target shooting, according to Davis.
Davis called the weapon "a dead-on ringer for a Beretta 92FS semiautomatic pistol."
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Doesn't even state the boy's race.
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Here's a photo of two of the types of guns involved, and a Airsoft pistol. Anyone want to guess which is which from a glance?
(http://i2.wp.com/pistolplace.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/real1.jpg).
It's a new age, don't let your kids carry realistic toy guns :(.
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Here's a photo of two of the guns involved, and a Airsoft pistol. Anyone want to guess which is which from a glance?
(http://i2.wp.com/pistolplace.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/real1.jpg).
It's a new age, don't let your kids carry realistic toy guns :(.
They look real, especially from a distance. :-\ :-\
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Since when is it illegal to carry a gun down the street in America ???
Cops overreacted, I'll side with the liberals on this one. ;)
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i'd have shot his ass too. Sorry, but someone with a gun saying "don't worry, it's fake" while refusing to stop or drop it?
lucky he was just shot in the leg twice.
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everyone needs to open carry to make america great again
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Doesn't even state the boy's race.
Let's see here.....Baltimore Maryland, cops chasing a kid and has no qualms with shooting him. ;D
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Let's see here.....Baltimore Maryland, cops chasing a kid and has no qualms with shooting him. ;D
When you're brown, they'll mow you down. ;D
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When you're black, you'll hit the sack.
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(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2016/01/2EE055CF00000578-0-image-a-37_1448724471666.jpg&w=1484)
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Since when is it illegal to carry a gun down the street in America ???
Cops overreacted, I'll side with the liberals on this one. ;)
Since 1788
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i'd have shot his ass too. Sorry, but someone with a gun saying "don't worry, it's fake" while refusing to stop or drop it?
lucky he was just shot in the leg twice.
Back in my day parents told kids ; " Be careful with that or you'll put someone's eye out."
Had getbiggers been around when we were kids, many adults today would be wearing eye patches."
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Back in my day parents told kids ; " Be careful with that or you'll put someone's eye out."
Had getbiggers been around when we were kids, many adults today would be wearing eye patches."
True, but when a cop yells "drop it", you drop it. It's near impossible to tell a BB gun isn't a real gun when the kid is RUNNING with it. that gun is a blur and the cop is scared, for his safety and that of others.
I'm very hard on bad cops, I hate them because the woman cop (now retired) that threatened me in 1994 is still out there, and I follow her closely so one day I can bump into her and tell her what a piece of shit she was. And one day, I absolutely will. You threatened a poor kid with a fake ticket if he tried explaining the red light scale... you're a piece of shit for that, and everyone should know this.
But in this case, it's very sad, but I cannot fault the cops for firing. Shooting in the legs was a safe choice for them, they could have shot higher.
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True, but when a cop yells "drop it", you drop it. It's near impossible to tell a BB gun isn't a real gun when the kid is RUNNING with it. that gun is a blur and the cop is scared, for his safety and that of others.
I'm very hard on bad cops, I hate them because the woman cop (now retired) that threatened me in 1994 is still out there, and I follow her closely so one day I can bump into her and tell her what a piece of shit she was. And one day, I absolutely will. You threatened a poor kid with a fake ticket if he tried explaining the red light scale... you're a piece of shit for that, and everyone should know this.
But in this case, it's very sad, but I cannot fault the cops for firing. Shooting in the legs was a safe choice for them, they could have shot higher.
LMFAO at you still holding a grudge and whining about a cop threatening you with a ticket over 20 years ago!! Get some psychiatric help you broken fuckin wingnut.
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True, but when a cop yells "drop it", you drop it. I
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/27/police-shooting-13-year-old-boy-baltimore-freddie-gray (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/27/police-shooting-13-year-old-boy-baltimore-freddie-gray)
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The officers were in an unmarked car and were not wearing uniforms and Davis could not say how many shots had been fired, although two police markers used to mark identify shell casings could be seen.
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Witnesses said that the mother came up on the scene, screaming. “They slammed her and locked her up,” one said.
Davis said the mother had not been arrested but was being questioned.
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LMFAO at you still holding a grudge and whining about a cop threatening you with a ticket over 20 years ago!! Get some psychiatric help you broken fuckin wingnut.
she was a bag of shit. there's no statute of limitations on that.
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True, but when a cop yells "drop it", you drop it. It's near impossible to tell a BB gun isn't a real gun when the kid is RUNNING with it. that gun is a blur and the cop is scared, for his safety and that of others.
I'm very hard on bad cops, I hate them because the woman cop (now retired) that threatened me in 1994 is still out there, and I follow her closely so one day I can bump into her and tell her what a piece of shit she was. And one day, I absolutely will. You threatened a poor kid with a fake ticket if he tried explaining the red light scale... you're a piece of shit for that, and everyone should know this.
But in this case, it's very sad, but I cannot fault the cops for firing. Shooting in the legs was a safe choice for them, they could have shot higher.
Hi Rob,
Thanks for sharing that experience with us. It sounds like it was a difficult situation to be in and it clearly affected how you see police officers. I'd imagine it was tough to write the above paragraph.
Good for you for opening up.
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True, but when a cop yells "drop it", you drop it. It's near impossible to tell a BB gun isn't a real gun when the kid is RUNNING with it. that gun is a blur and the cop is scared, for his safety and that of others.
I'm very hard on bad cops, I hate them because the woman cop (now retired) that threatened me in 1994 is still out there, and I follow her closely so one day I can bump into her and tell her what a piece of shit she was. And one day, I absolutely will. You threatened a poor kid with a fake ticket if he tried explaining the red light scale... you're a piece of shit for that, and everyone should know this.
But in this case, it's very sad, but I cannot fault the cops for firing. Shooting in the legs was a safe choice for them, they could have shot higher.
Don't know how to tell you this without just coming out and saying it.. They didn't "choose" to shot him in the leg and shoulder, they shot for center mass and as often happens, the rounds hit in the general area, as it was probably a moving target and cops aren't Annie Oakley
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Don't know how to tell you this without just coming out and saying it.. They didn't "choose" to shot him in the leg and shoulder, they shot for center mass and as often happens, the rounds hit in the general area, as it was probably a moving target and cops aren't Annie Oakley
oh, i'm well aware of this, always shoot center mass.
my belief is that if it somehow ended up with the round in the leg... the cop likely chose at the last second to go low. maybe it's because the kid was so young, and a crippled kid can cure cancer one day, but a dead kid puts the cop on CNN with potential riots.
maybe they finally caught up with the kid, just chose not to put them in his pizza box. We're all just speculating on a news story here, and I know they are trained to go center mass. I"m just saying they're human, and they've seen many cops' lives ruined by media coverage. if the cop sees a weapon but isn't quite sure what weapon is, he sees it's a 5 foot tall, 14 year old, maybe at the last second he doesn't put 4 in the lungs, maybe he shoots low then wings the kid. The pursuit is over, it's a small story, the kid lives.
I'm not saying I know anything, I'm saying if I had to bet, I believe this cop could have ended this kids' breathing, and maybe swayed a bit at the last second due to a number of factors.
We already know from studies that police are less likely to pull trigger based on race because it changes their career for the worst due to media:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/5/police-officers-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/?page=all
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she was a bag of shit. there's no statute of limitations on that.
What kind of sheltered life did you lead where that is what left an indelible impression on you of cops? Is that the only interaction you've ever had with police? I don't mean when your auntie got drunk and started a fist fight with the neighbor kid over the last drumstick, I mean as a suspect or a person of interest (my personal favorite)
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What kind of sheltered life did you lead where that is what left an indelible impression on you of cops? Is that the only interaction you've ever had with police? I don't mean when your auntie got drunk and started a fist fight with the neighbor kid over the last drumstick, I mean as a suspect or a person of interest (my personal favorite)
i've been stopped a lot, and usually cops are super cool. I'm friendly and respectful and so are they. As a kid, they were a little ruder on me. Now if I'm out at night, I'm a working man with receding hairline just trying to get home, just like that... most people on the road at night are buzzed and much more worthy targets.
This one particular officer received accommodation in the local newspaper the following month for having the most citations the previous month. She ran up her numbers by waiting for a poor 18 year old, coming home from work, to give up on a non-functional red light scale at 1am, and pulled me over for it. Then when I tried to explain the construction left it so the light wouldn't change - which she obviously knew, hiding in the dark waiting for me to do so - then she told me if I said another word, I'd get a ticket for my seat belt - which was on.
I'm a very law abiding citizen. When someone abuses power like that, screw her. These days, I'd fight it, but I was just a kid and she was just a 30-something cop trying to get recognized by nailing people due to non-functional light.
I've been stopped lots of times, and most cops are awesome. Not this one.
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i've been stopped a lot, and usually cops are super cool. I'm friendly and respectful and so are they. As a kid, they were a little ruder on me. Now if I'm out at night, I'm a working man with receding hairline just trying to get home, just like that... most people on the road at night are buzzed and much more worthy targets.
This one particular officer received accommodation in the local newspaper the following month for having the most citations the previous month. She ran up her numbers by waiting for a poor 18 year old, coming home from work, to give up on a non-functional red light scale at 1am, and pulled me over for it. Then when I tried to explain the construction left it so the light wouldn't change - which she obviously knew, hiding in the dark waiting for me to do so - then she told me if I said another word, I'd get a ticket for my seat belt - which was on.
I'm a very law abiding citizen. When someone abuses power like that, screw her. These days, I'd fight it, but I was just a kid and she was just a 30-something cop trying to get recognized by nailing people due to non-functional light.
I've been stopped lots of times, and most cops are awesome. Not this one.
Why not post her name and badge number on getbig? ;D
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LMFAO at you still holding a grudge and whining about a cop threatening you with a ticket over 20 years ago!! Get some psychiatric help you broken fuckin wingnut.
Dude is trolling…. gotta be.
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Why not post her name and badge number on getbig? ;D
haha she's retired. and I've let it go lol.... until a getbig debate comes up, then I recall how much of an ass she was. That's it tho.
It was police threat abuse of a young and impressionable youth, ya know? I know kids get beat down by bad police all the time, way worse than anything I went thru. She was a dick.
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haha she's retired. and I've let it go lol.... until a getbig debate comes up, then I recall how much of an ass she was. That's it tho.
It was police threat abuse of a young and impressionable youth, ya know? I know kids get beat down by bad police all the time, way worse than anything I went thru. She was a dick.
You're a schmuck
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oh, i'm well aware of this, always shoot center mass.
my belief is that if it somehow ended up with the round in the leg... the cop likely chose at the last second to go low. maybe it's because the kid was so young, and a crippled kid can cure cancer one day, but a dead kid puts the cop on CNN with potential riots.
maybe they finally caught up with the kid, just chose not to put them in his pizza box. We're all just speculating on a news story here, and I know they are trained to go center mass. I"m just saying they're human, and they've seen many cops' lives ruined by media coverage. if the cop sees a weapon but isn't quite sure what weapon is, he sees it's a 5 foot tall, 14 year old, maybe at the last second he doesn't put 4 in the lungs, maybe he shoots low then wings the kid. The pursuit is over, it's a small story, the kid lives.
I'm not saying I know anything, I'm saying if I had to bet, I believe this cop could have ended this kids' breathing, and maybe swayed a bit at the last second due to a number of factors.
We already know from studies that police are less likely to pull trigger based on race because it changes their career for the worst due to media:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/5/police-officers-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/?page=all
If you want to believe he shot low at the least second on purpose, thinking the kid was pointing a gun at him.. I suppose you could... :)
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If you want to believe he shot low at the least second on purpose, thinking the kid was pointing a gun at him.. I suppose you could... :)
I think there's a possibility that as some cops pull their gun, aim, realize that weapon is in hand but not pointing at them - they make the decision they still have to shoot - but they DO choose not to try to kill the person by shooting center mass.
Yes, I'm well aware they're trained to shoot center mass. But I also know every wise cop has looked at what other cops go through for the public shootings - losing their career and being notorious and hated and getting threats - and I think it leads to hesitation or at times, or just aiming a little lower to avoid being the top story on CNN by killing someone when injuring will work just fine.
De facto, not de jure.
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haha she's retired. and I've let it go lol.... until a getbig debate comes up, then I recall how much of an ass she was. That's it tho.
It was police threat abuse of a young and impressionable youth, ya know? I know kids get beat down by bad police all the time, way worse than anything I went thru. She was a dick.
I don't know,other that it is personal to you, how one could rank the treatment you received as a 18 year old with the shooting of a 14 year old
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Hi Rob,
Thanks for sharing that experience with us. It sounds like it was a difficult situation to be in and it clearly affected how you see police officers. I'd imagine it was tough to write the above paragraph.
Good for you for opening up.
l lmao
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I think there's a possibility that as some cops pull their gun, aim, realize that weapon is in hand but not pointing at them - they make the decision they still have to shoot - but they DO choose not to try to kill the person by shooting center mass.
Yes, I'm well aware they're trained to shoot center mass. But I also know every wise cop has looked at what other cops go through for the public shootings - losing their career and being notorious and hated and getting threats - and I think it leads to hesitation or at times, or just aiming a little lower to avoid being the top story on CNN by killing someone when injuring will work just fine.
De facto, not de jure.
I can certainly understand how someone who doesn't have much experience or knowledge of police deadly force situations might think that.
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Dont care whst color you are or how old.if you have a gun fake or real and cop tells you to stop and drop it you stop and drop it or get shot.I hate cops but i agree with most of their shootings.
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Dont care whst color you are or how old.if you have a gun fake or real and cop tells you to stop and drop it you stop and drop it or get shot.I hate cops but i agree with most of their shootings.
If I am lawfully open carrying my firearm and a cop tells me to stop and drop it with no probable cause he can shoot me ???
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I can certainly understand how someone who doesn't have much experience or knowledge of police deadly force situations might think that.
Can you defend this cop's actions in any way? The scale (in a 1994 construction zone) wasn't functional. I had to go that way. After sitting there for 5+ minutes at 2am, I looked both ways and slowly ran the red. She was waiting in the field behind me, ligths off. Lit me up.
I'm 100% legal, a grocery stocker in college. No drugs, no drinking, no carload of fun. I tried to explain the light was not functioning and I had waited, and she threatened to MAKE UP A FALSE CHARGE on me, if I said another word.
Please dude, justify that in any way.
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Can you defend this cop's actions in any way? The scale (in a 1994 construction zone) wasn't functional. I had to go that way. After sitting there for 5+ minutes at 2am, I looked both ways and slowly ran the red. She was waiting in the field behind me, ligths off. Lit me up.
I'm 100% legal, a grocery stocker in college. No drugs, no drinking, no carload of fun. I tried to explain the light was not functioning and I had waited, and she threatened to MAKE UP A FALSE CHARGE on me, if I said another word.
Please dude, justify that in any way.
240,
Do you experience flashbacks when you retell the story?
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240,
Do you experience flashbacks when you retell the story?
Does my heart rate increase 10 bpm? Probably. I can still attain an erection, but I sweat more. So who knows.
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Can you defend this cop's actions in any way? The scale (in a 1994 construction zone) wasn't functional. I had to go that way. After sitting there for 5+ minutes at 2am, I looked both ways and slowly ran the red. She was waiting in the field behind me, ligths off. Lit me up.
I'm 100% legal, a grocery stocker in college. No drugs, no drinking, no carload of fun. I tried to explain the light was not functioning and I had waited, and she threatened to MAKE UP A FALSE CHARGE on me, if I said another word.
Please dude, justify that in any way.
It's not my job to justify actions based on one side of a story that happened a decade ago. I'm talking about your fantasy that a cop, in a deadly force situation makes a conscious effort to shoot the subject in the leg because that's where the round happened to hit.
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It's not my job to justify actions based on one side of a story that happened a decade ago. I'm talking about your fantasy that a cop, in a deadly force situation makes a conscious effort to shoot the subject in the leg because that's where the round happened to hit.
I think there are times - when the cop closes on the person with the gun - when he realizes he's chasing someone with a middle school face... where he draws and prepares to fire, and sees the gun is indeed in hand, but pointing at the ground,... when he realizes he doesn't truly need to put 5 shots into the torso of this person, and 2 shots low might end it without putting the Officer's face on CNN for a month...
I"m not saying they do it all the time. I'm saying when they close on a teenager holding a BB gun, hae him dead to rights, and he ends up with a shoulder and leg hit... either they magically lost accuracy ability, or they decided last minute to avoid center mass.
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I think there are times - when the cop closes on the person with the gun - when he realizes he's chasing someone with a middle school face... where he draws and prepares to fire, and sees the gun is indeed in hand, but pointing at the ground,... when he realizes he doesn't truly need to put 5 shots into the torso of this person, and 2 shots low might end it without putting the Officer's face on CNN for a month...
I"m not saying they do it all the time. I'm saying when they close on a teenager holding a BB gun, hae him dead to rights, and he ends up with a shoulder and leg hit... either they magically lost accuracy ability, or they decided last minute to avoid center mass.
again, it's understandable that someone with your experience in such things would attribute a shoulder and leg hit as something the officer intended to do. Accuracy in a police shoot out is something of a Sasquatch. Just striking the suspect is hard enough with the dynamics of you moving, them moving, adrenaline and stress out the wazoo that speculating they really know the gun is a bb gun and decide to shoot an extremity is kind of funny.
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again, it's understandable that someone with your experience in such things would attribute a shoulder and leg hit as something the officer intended to do. Accuracy in a police shoot out is something of a Sasquatch. Just striking the suspect is hard enough with the dynamics of you moving, them moving, adrenaline and stress out the wazoo that speculating they really know the gun is a bb gun and decide to shoot an extremity is kind of funny.
Pretty sure the whole state of Baltimore has been written up for endemic judicial corruption and poor police procedure, but you know that, right?
/i play a cop on-line, too ::)
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Additional research supports this lack of accuracy, indicating
that when police officers use deadly force, more often
they miss the target than actually hit the target (Matulia,
1985). Although hit rates across different police agencies
vary, officer hit rates often do not exceed 50% during
officer-involved shootings (Copay and Charles, 2001; Geller
and Scott, 1992). In a national survey completed by the
Dallas Police Department (1992), hit rates were recorded
as low as 25% in some locations. A study examining
officer-involved shootings found that as the distance
between suspects and officers increased beyond 3 ft, noninjurious
shooting (to the suspect) increased from 9% to over
45% (in the 4-20 ft range) (White, 2006). Theoretically, this
may be due to the emotional response of the officer to the
high stress level that results when they are assaulted by dangerous
weapons or suspects shooting in proximity to and at
the officers (Schade and Bruns, 1989).
It should be noted that, according to
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Pretty sure the whole state of Baltimore has been written up for endemic judicial corruption and poor police procedure, but you know that, right?
/i play a cop on-line, too ::)
If I had to choose, Caddyshack of Animal House as the better movie, I would have to go with Animal House
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again, it's understandable that someone with your experience in such things would attribute a shoulder and leg hit as something the officer intended to do. Accuracy in a police shoot out is something of a Sasquatch. Just striking the suspect is hard enough with the dynamics of you moving, them moving, adrenaline and stress out the wazoo that speculating they really know the gun is a bb gun and decide to shoot an extremity is kind of funny.
Did you know some countries DO train their cops to shoot for the leg when possible?
http://www.copinthehood.com/2015/05/aiming-for-legs.html
3 links there on police one.
So if I can find a single example of a police officer firing the gun, but choosing last minute to shoot to wound, it'll render your entire argument invalid, correct?
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i've been stopped a lot, and usually cops are super cool. I'm friendly and respectful and so are they. As a kid, they were a little ruder on me. Now if I'm out at night, I'm a working man with receding hairline just trying to get home, just like that... most people on the road at night are buzzed and much more worthy targets.
This one particular officer received accommodation in the local newspaper the following month for having the most citations the previous month. She ran up her numbers by waiting for a poor 18 year old, coming home from work, to give up on a non-functional red light scale at 1am, and pulled me over for it. Then when I tried to explain the construction left it so the light wouldn't change - which she obviously knew, hiding in the dark waiting for me to do so - then she told me if I said another word, I'd get a ticket for my seat belt - which was on.
I'm a very law abiding citizen. When someone abuses power like that, screw her. These days, I'd fight it, but I was just a kid and she was just a 30-something cop trying to get recognized by nailing people due to non-functional light.
I've been stopped lots of times, and most cops are awesome. Not this one.
Maybe you could have taken a little 5-min video of the light (if phones had vid cameras back then) and beaten the ticket, plus make the cop look clueless.
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It's not my job to justify actions based on one side of a story that happened a decade ago.
This is why people dislike cops.
"It's not my job..."
This was a cop using a traffic malfunction to stack up tickets so she could win the monthly accommodation, and if you were a cop and I told you about it... you woudln't say "wow, that's messed up" or whatever... you'd just say "not my job..."
THAT is why people hate cops. If you saw a fellow officer punching a restrained person in handcuffs repeatedly, would you arrest that cop for assault? Or would you say "not my job, I don't know the back story"?
I tell ya, that kinda shit is why people don't trust cops. "Not my job"...
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Did you know some countries DO train their cops to shoot for the leg when possible?
http://www.copinthehood.com/2015/05/aiming-for-legs.html
3 links there on police one.
So if I can find a single example of a police officer firing the gun, but choosing last minute to shoot to wound, it'll render your entire argument invalid, correct?
Did you even read the article you posted as your support?
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If I had to choose, Caddyshack of Animal House as the better movie, I would have to go with Animal House
Both good. Bafflegab, Your, Honor.
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I don't know,other that it is personal to you, how one could rank the treatment you received as a 18 year old with the shooting of a 14 year old
It just shows the mindset of many officers.
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This is why people dislike cops.
"It's not my job..."
This was a cop using a traffic malfunction to stack up tickets so she could win the monthly accommodation, and if you were a cop and I told you about it... you woudln't say "wow, that's messed up" or whatever... you'd just say "not my job..."
THAT is why people hate cops. If you saw a fellow officer punching a restrained person in handcuffs repeatedly, would you arrest that cop for assault? Or would you say "not my job, I don't know the back story"?
I tell ya, that kinda shit is why people don't trust cops. "Not my job"...
First, my conversation with you in this thread was about the shooting. I had no involvement with your personal encounter with a cop years ago and don't know why you even brought that into our discussion. It has nothing to do with deadly force situations or anything remotely similar to what we were talking about. Maybe you got me confused with someone else
secondly, I have seen both sides of the coin. I've had citizens complain about a cop and swear up and down X happened. I've reviewed the video and found X never happened. I've also had the opposite occur. So since I don't know you personally, and I haven't talked to the other party, it would be ridiculous for me to conclude what happened. I can certainly say for sure that IF everything you said was true, then of course that was inappropriate of the cop. Which monthly "accommodation" was she trying to win? Did you research the location to determine if there were an unusual amount of traffic collisions there?
Lastly, you probably won't see it, but your credibility is not the best. You've been caught putting out false info as gospel many times and then pretend it never happened. Doesn't help your cause.
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First, my conversation with you in this thread was about the shooting. I had no involvement with your personal encounter with a cop years ago and don't know why you even brought that into our discussion. It has nothing to do with deadly force situations or anything remotely similar to what we were talking about. Maybe you got me confused with someone else
secondly, I have seen both sides of the coin. I've had citizens complain about a cop and swear up and down X happened. I've reviewed the video and found X never happened. I've also had the opposite occur. So since I don't know you personally, and I haven't talked to the other party, it would be ridiculous for me to conclude what happened. I can certainly say for sure that IF everything you said was true, then of course that was inappropriate of the cop. Which monthly "accommodation" was she trying to win? Did you research the location to determine if there were an unusual amount of traffic collisions there?
Lastly, you probably won't see it, but your credibility is not the best. You've been caught putting out false info as gospel many times and then pretend it never happened. Doesn't help your cause.
What were some of those opposite occurrences?
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First, my conversation with you in this thread was about the shooting. I had no involvement with your personal encounter with a cop years ago and don't know why you even brought that into our discussion. It has nothing to do with deadly force situations or anything remotely similar to what we were talking about. Maybe you got me confused with someone else
secondly, I have seen both sides of the coin. I've had citizens complain about a cop and swear up and down X happened. I've reviewed the video and found X never happened. I've also had the opposite occur. So since I don't know you personally, and I haven't talked to the other party, it would be ridiculous for me to conclude what happened. I can certainly say for sure that IF everything you said was true, then of course that was inappropriate of the cop. Which monthly "accommodation" was she trying to win? Did you research the location to determine if there were an unusual amount of traffic collisions there?
Lastly, you probably won't see it, but your credibility is not the best. You've been caught putting out false info as gospel many times and then pretend it never happened. Doesn't help your cause.
You talk too much. Not a cop. ::)
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What were some of those opposite occurrences?
An officer used his badge to get into a movie free, responding that he was on the security contract when asked. He was not on the contract. While there was no sound to the video, the employees version of what happened made more sense than the officers version of what happened. He was terminated for lying
An officer was involved in a minor collision with a citizen while responding to a call code 3. Caused slight damage to the citizen vehicle. He claimed he didn't realize the vehicles had made contact but that he had hit a pot hole or speed bump. in car video indicated from his response that it was likely he knew. 90 day suspension as there was some question about it.
An officer struck a citizen after the citizen spit in her face. But it wasn't a single strike, she hit the citizen and then had to be pulled off. The officer that pulled her off didn't put it in his report. Citizen complained. Both officers were terminated after reviewing the videos.
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again, it's understandable that someone with your experience in such things would attribute a shoulder and leg hit as something the officer intended to do. Accuracy in a police shoot out is something of a Sasquatch. Just striking the suspect is hard enough with the dynamics of you moving, them moving, adrenaline and stress out the wazoo that speculating they really know the gun is a bb gun and decide to shoot an extremity is kind of funny.
But in the Lethal Weapons movies, Mel Gibson and Danny Glover always hit the guy in the chest. ??? ???
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An officer used his badge to get into a movie free, responding that he was on the security contract when asked. He was not on the contract. While there was no sound to the video, the employees version of what happened made more sense than the officers version of what happened. He was terminated for lying
An officer was involved in a minor collision with a citizen while responding to a call code 3. Caused slight damage to the citizen vehicle. He claimed he didn't realize the vehicles had made contact but that he had hit a pot hole or speed bump. in car video indicated from his response that it was likely he knew. 90 day suspension as there was some question about it.
An officer struck a citizen after the citizen spit in her face. But it wasn't a single strike, she hit the citizen and then had to be pulled off. The officer that pulled her off didn't put it in his report. Citizen complained. Both officers were terminated after reviewing the videos.
Kind of tough to become upset with the cop whose face took spit, but I know things must be done in a certain way -- even when being assaulted.
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Ease back, citizen. Guy's not a cop. Just a loudmouth.
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Ease back, citizen. Guy's not a cop. Just a loudmouth.
I think he's in a position that allows him to remain disconnected. Maybe he wears a headset all day with "Accentuate the Positive" blasting away on it.
;D
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I think he's in a position that allows him to remain disconnected. Maybe he wears a headset all day with "Accentuate the Positive" blasting away on it.
;D
10-4.
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Kind of tough to become upset with the cop whose face took spit, but I know things must be done in a certain way -- even when being assaulted.
The initial response of being spit on is taken into account. We're all human after all. But after the initial response, "losing it" isn't acceptable. She lost it. While I can understand how that can happen, she also wasn't forthright in her version of what happened which added to the issue. She minimized her actions. Had she from the getgo said "Holy cow, I've never had someone spit in my face, it got all in my eyes and mouth and I just reacted, but I went overboard and I'm so glad my partner was there to intervene" she could have saved her job. Lying about it is never a good idea
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Ease back, citizen. Guy's not a cop. Just a loudmouth.
Started in Law Enforcement with the Air Force in May of 1982. Went to K9 and worked patrol/drug dogs till around '87. Then I trained bomb and drug dog teams until my separation in 92. Started at my Department in Jan of 93 and will be retiring on or about August 1st. Still have to figure out my last day of working. Hopefully it is in the 2nd half of July. After that I plan on doing some traveling. So about 34 years in Law Enforcement. Some don't count military as being Law Enforcement so about 23.5 years as a civilian cop.
When I started at this department, I would have done it for free if I didn't have bills to pay. Really have enjoyed my career. I won't miss it though.
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The initial response of being spit on is taken into account. We're all human after all. But after the initial response, "losing it" isn't acceptable. She lost it. While I can understand how that can happen, she also wasn't forthright in her version of what happened which added to the issue. She minimized her actions. Had she from the getgo said "Holy cow, I've never had someone spit in my face, it got all in my eyes and mouth and I just reacted, but I went overboard and I'm so glad my partner was there to intervene" she could have saved her job. Lying about it is never a good idea
Yes, I agree. It's so often the lies that do it in.
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Yes, I agree. It's so often the lies that do it in.
Was just talking about that with a co worker the other day. It's baffling. From day 1 in the academy cadets are taught to tell the truth. Example after example is given to them about officers who could have survived the suspension or discipline but thought they would lie their way out of it. And the odd thing is, most of the time it's not the lying you would expect. I would expect if an officer got caught with a duffle back of money and drugs they would lie about it, or something major like that, but much of the time they lose their jobs over things that really don't matter. The truth would not have resulted in their career being over. But pride, embarrassment, whatever, they go down that path of not telling the truth. Like the guy who said he was on the movie theater contract to get the comp tickets.. you lose your career over saving a couple bucks on a ticket? Fortunately, we see more often than not, officers who will fall on their sword and take their medicine. But I still can't wrap my head around losing your job, your credibility, integrity, reputation over some of the things they lie about
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Was just talking about that with a co worker the other day. It's baffling. From day 1 in the academy cadets are taught to tell the truth. Example after example is given to them about officers who could have survived the suspension or discipline but thought they would lie their way out of it. And the odd thing is, most of the time it's not the lying you would expect. I would expect if an officer got caught with a duffle back of money and drugs they would lie about it, or something major like that, but much of the time they lose their jobs over things that really don't matter. The truth would not have resulted in their career being over. But pride, embarrassment, whatever, they go down that path of not telling the truth. Like the guy who said he was on the movie theater contract to get the comp tickets.. you lose your career over saving a couple bucks on a ticket? Fortunately, we see more often than not, officers who will fall on their sword and take their medicine. But I still can't wrap my head around losing your job, your credibility, integrity, reputation over some of the things they lie about
I'd say it's a good indicator of how little they value the truth. They figure "no, it's better this way" and they go with it.
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Could be.. I think for some, they are just ok with lying. I've seen those types throughout my career. But I've seen some who were really good people who let themselves get caught up in the lie and can't turn back, and I think in the case I am thinking of where I had involvement, it was embarrassment. The issue was minor and the officer thought it was not going to be a big deal and off the cuff lied thinking that would be the end of it. No body hurt by the lie, what he did was stupid and he didn't want to own it. Then it snowballed and he couldn't come off it because he had already committed. I knew he was lying, he knew he was lying, it wasn't about anything but whether the clerk asked him "Are you on the contract?" verses "Are you with APD?" His response, which they both agreed on, didn't make sense if it was what he said she asked. He just couldn't let it go. In that case, I think he was afraid to admit he lied because he would be looked down upon. He would rather lose his job, or risk losing his job hoping against hope we wouldn't terminate him.
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Could be.. I think for some, they are just ok with lying. I've seen those types throughout my career. But I've seen some who were really good people who let themselves get caught up in the lie and can't turn back, and I think in the case I am thinking of where I had involvement, it was embarrassment. The issue was minor and the officer thought it was not going to be a big deal and off the cuff lied thinking that would be the end of it. No body hurt by the lie, what he did was stupid and he didn't want to own it. Then it snowballed and he couldn't come off it because he had already committed. I knew he was lying, he knew he was lying, it wasn't about anything but whether the clerk asked him "Are you on the contract?" verses "Are you with APD?" His response, which they both agreed on, didn't make sense if it was what he said she asked. He just couldn't let it go. In that case, I think he was afraid to admit he lied because he would be looked down upon. He would rather lose his job, or risk losing his job hoping against hope we wouldn't terminate him.
Maybe that's what it takes for them to learn. Next time, they'll know it isn't worth it.
How would it affect someone's ability to become a cop somewhere else, if caught lying about something minor (and fired from original job)?
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Maybe that's what it takes for them to learn. Next time, they'll know it isn't worth it.
How would it affect someone's ability to become a cop somewhere else, if caught lying about something minor (and fired from original job)?
I'm not sure about nation wide, but they are unable to become a police officer in the state of Texas if terminated for an honesty issue. Any department that does a background check would likely pass on someone terminated for that reason.
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we had a local cop with 3 violence charges, including on where he shoved a dude to the ground in a bar on video.
was fired from the city, just picked up the same job with county.
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we had a local cop with 3 violence charges, including on where he shoved a dude to the ground in a bar on video.
was fired from the city, just picked up the same job with county.
Something that is not uncommon is that when an officer sees the writing on the wall, they will resign prior to their termination hearing. If that is the case, they are not ineligible to be hired elsewhere. In some cases, the new department will review the allegations and may not agree with the prior departments findings, or think it was an overreaction. Then you factor in the training that the officer has that the new department won't have to pay for and that can look attractive to a department that may not have their own academy, or has an accelerated academy for officers with prior service. We were about to terminate an officer here who resigned at the last minute. He was just not cut out for policing and had issues during his field training period. He left out department and went to work for a smaller suburb even after we warned that department. Wasn't long before they had to fire him for similar things we warned them about.
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Something that is not uncommon is that when an officer sees the writing on the wall, they will resign prior to their termination hearing. If that is the case, they are not ineligible to be hired elsewhere. In some cases, the new department will review the allegations and may not agree with the prior departments findings, or think it was an overreaction. Then you factor in the training that the officer has that the new department won't have to pay for and that can look attractive to a department that may not have their own academy, or has an accelerated academy for officers with prior service. We were about to terminate an officer here who resigned at the last minute. He was just not cut out for policing and had issues during his field training period. He left out department and went to work for a smaller suburb even after we warned that department. Wasn't long before they had to fire him for similar things we warned them about.
You talk too much. I know you're not a cop. You want the whole board to know?
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I know you're not a cop. You want the whole board to know?
dish
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You talk too much. I know you're not a cop. You want the whole board to know?
Do tell ::) I'm calling your bluff
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Dr. Chimps?...
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Ease back, citizen. Guy's not a cop. Just a loudmouth.
The irony..