Author Topic: Baltimore police: Officers 'compelled' to chase 13-year-old with BB gun  (Read 7728 times)

Zillotch

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Re: Baltimore police: Officers 'compelled' to chase 13-year-old with BB gun
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2016, 12:06:46 PM »
haha she's retired.  and I've let it go lol.... until a getbig debate comes up, then I recall how much of an ass she was.  That's it tho.

It was police threat abuse of a young and impressionable youth, ya know?   I know kids get beat down by bad police all the time, way worse than anything I went thru.  She was a dick.

You're a schmuck

Agnostic007

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oh, i'm well aware of this, always shoot center mass. 

my belief is that if it somehow ended up with the round in the leg... the cop likely chose at the last second to go low.  maybe it's because the kid was so young, and a crippled kid can cure cancer one day, but a dead kid puts the cop on CNN with potential riots.

maybe they finally caught up with the kid, just chose not to put them in his pizza box.  We're all just speculating on a news story here, and I know they are trained to go center mass.   I"m just saying they're human, and they've seen many cops' lives ruined by media coverage.  if the cop sees a weapon but isn't quite sure what weapon is, he sees it's a 5 foot tall, 14 year old, maybe at the last second he doesn't put 4 in the lungs, maybe he shoots low then wings the kid.  The pursuit is over, it's a small story, the kid lives.

I'm not saying I know anything, I'm saying if I had to bet, I believe this cop could have ended this kids' breathing, and maybe swayed a bit at the last second due to a number of factors.

We already know from studies that police are less likely to pull trigger based on race because it changes their career for the worst due to media:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/5/police-officers-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/?page=all

If you want to believe he shot low at the least second on purpose, thinking the kid was pointing a gun at him.. I suppose you could...  :)

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If you want to believe he shot low at the least second on purpose, thinking the kid was pointing a gun at him.. I suppose you could...  :)

I think there's a possibility that as some cops pull their gun, aim, realize that weapon is in hand but not pointing at them - they make the decision they still have to shoot - but they DO choose not to try to kill the person by shooting center mass.

Yes, I'm well aware they're trained to shoot center mass. But I also know every wise cop has looked at what other cops go through for the public shootings - losing their career and being notorious and hated and getting threats - and I think it leads to hesitation or at times, or just aiming a little lower to avoid being the top story on CNN by killing someone when injuring will work just fine.

De facto, not de jure.

B_B_C

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haha she's retired.  and I've let it go lol.... until a getbig debate comes up, then I recall how much of an ass she was.  That's it tho.

It was police threat abuse of a young and impressionable youth, ya know?   I know kids get beat down by bad police all the time, way worse than anything I went thru.  She was a dick.


I don't know,other that it is personal to you, how one could rank the treatment you received as a 18 year old with the shooting of a 14 year old
c

Kim Jong Bob

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Hi Rob,

Thanks for sharing that experience with us. It sounds like it was a difficult situation to be in and it clearly affected how you see police officers. I'd imagine it was tough to write the above paragraph.

Good for you for opening up.
l lmao

Agnostic007

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I think there's a possibility that as some cops pull their gun, aim, realize that weapon is in hand but not pointing at them - they make the decision they still have to shoot - but they DO choose not to try to kill the person by shooting center mass.

Yes, I'm well aware they're trained to shoot center mass. But I also know every wise cop has looked at what other cops go through for the public shootings - losing their career and being notorious and hated and getting threats - and I think it leads to hesitation or at times, or just aiming a little lower to avoid being the top story on CNN by killing someone when injuring will work just fine.

De facto, not de jure.

I can certainly understand how someone who doesn't have much experience or knowledge of police deadly force situations might think that.

robcguns

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Dont care whst color you are or how old.if you have a gun fake or real and cop tells you to stop and drop it you stop and drop it or get shot.I hate cops but i agree with most of their shootings.

calfzilla

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Dont care whst color you are or how old.if you have a gun fake or real and cop tells you to stop and drop it you stop and drop it or get shot.I hate cops but i agree with most of their shootings.

If I am lawfully open carrying my firearm and a cop tells me to stop and drop it with no probable cause he can shoot me  ???

240 is Back

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I can certainly understand how someone who doesn't have much experience or knowledge of police deadly force situations might think that.

Can you defend this cop's actions in any way?    The scale (in a 1994 construction zone) wasn't functional.  I had to go that way.  After sitting there for 5+ minutes at 2am, I looked both ways and slowly ran the red.   She was waiting in the field behind me, ligths off.  Lit me up.

I'm 100% legal, a grocery stocker in college.  No drugs, no drinking, no carload of fun.  I tried to explain the light was not functioning and I had waited, and she threatened to MAKE UP A FALSE CHARGE on me, if I said another word.

Please dude, justify that in any way.

SF1900

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Can you defend this cop's actions in any way?    The scale (in a 1994 construction zone) wasn't functional.  I had to go that way.  After sitting there for 5+ minutes at 2am, I looked both ways and slowly ran the red.   She was waiting in the field behind me, ligths off.  Lit me up.

I'm 100% legal, a grocery stocker in college.  No drugs, no drinking, no carload of fun.  I tried to explain the light was not functioning and I had waited, and she threatened to MAKE UP A FALSE CHARGE on me, if I said another word.

Please dude, justify that in any way.

240,

Do you experience flashbacks when you retell the story?
X

240 is Back

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240,

Do you experience flashbacks when you retell the story?

Does my heart rate increase 10 bpm?  Probably.   I can still attain an erection, but I sweat more.  So who knows.

Agnostic007

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Can you defend this cop's actions in any way?    The scale (in a 1994 construction zone) wasn't functional.  I had to go that way.  After sitting there for 5+ minutes at 2am, I looked both ways and slowly ran the red.   She was waiting in the field behind me, ligths off.  Lit me up.

I'm 100% legal, a grocery stocker in college.  No drugs, no drinking, no carload of fun.  I tried to explain the light was not functioning and I had waited, and she threatened to MAKE UP A FALSE CHARGE on me, if I said another word.

Please dude, justify that in any way.

It's not my job to justify actions based on one side of a story that happened a decade ago. I'm talking about your fantasy that a cop, in a deadly force situation makes a conscious effort to shoot the subject in the leg because that's where the round happened to hit.

240 is Back

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It's not my job to justify actions based on one side of a story that happened a decade ago. I'm talking about your fantasy that a cop, in a deadly force situation makes a conscious effort to shoot the subject in the leg because that's where the round happened to hit.

I think there are times - when the cop closes on the person with the gun - when he realizes he's chasing someone with a middle school face... where he draws and prepares to fire, and sees the gun is indeed in hand, but pointing at the ground,... when he realizes he doesn't truly need to put 5 shots into the torso of this person, and 2 shots low might end it without putting the Officer's face on CNN for a month...

I"m not saying they do it all the time.  I'm saying when they close on a teenager holding a BB gun, hae him dead to rights, and he ends up with a shoulder and leg hit... either they magically lost accuracy ability, or they decided last minute to avoid center mass.

Agnostic007

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I think there are times - when the cop closes on the person with the gun - when he realizes he's chasing someone with a middle school face... where he draws and prepares to fire, and sees the gun is indeed in hand, but pointing at the ground,... when he realizes he doesn't truly need to put 5 shots into the torso of this person, and 2 shots low might end it without putting the Officer's face on CNN for a month...

I"m not saying they do it all the time.  I'm saying when they close on a teenager holding a BB gun, hae him dead to rights, and he ends up with a shoulder and leg hit... either they magically lost accuracy ability, or they decided last minute to avoid center mass.

again, it's understandable that someone with your experience in such things would attribute a shoulder and leg hit as something the officer intended to do. Accuracy in a police shoot out is something of a Sasquatch. Just striking the suspect is hard enough with the dynamics of you moving, them moving, adrenaline and stress out the wazoo that speculating they really know the gun is a bb gun and decide to shoot an extremity is kind of funny. 

dr.chimps

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again, it's understandable that someone with your experience in such things would attribute a shoulder and leg hit as something the officer intended to do. Accuracy in a police shoot out is something of a Sasquatch. Just striking the suspect is hard enough with the dynamics of you moving, them moving, adrenaline and stress out the wazoo that speculating they really know the gun is a bb gun and decide to shoot an extremity is kind of funny. 
Pretty sure the whole state of Baltimore has been written up for endemic judicial corruption and poor police procedure, but you know that, right?

/i play a cop on-line, too ::)


Agnostic007

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Additional research supports this lack of accuracy, indicating
that when police officers use deadly force, more often
they miss the target than actually hit the target (Matulia,
1985). Although hit rates across different police agencies
vary, officer hit rates often do not exceed 50% during
officer-involved shootings (Copay and Charles, 2001; Geller
and Scott, 1992). In a national survey completed by the
Dallas Police Department (1992), hit rates were recorded
as low as 25% in some locations. A study examining
officer-involved shootings found that as the distance
between suspects and officers increased beyond 3 ft, noninjurious
shooting (to the suspect) increased from 9% to over
45% (in the 4-20 ft range) (White, 2006). Theoretically, this
may be due to the emotional response of the officer to the
high stress level that results when they are assaulted by dangerous
weapons or suspects shooting in proximity to and at
the officers (Schade and Bruns, 1989).
It should be noted that, according to

Agnostic007

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Pretty sure the whole state of Baltimore has been written up for endemic judicial corruption and poor police procedure, but you know that, right?

/i play a cop on-line, too ::)



If I had to choose, Caddyshack of Animal House as the better movie, I would have to go with Animal House

240 is Back

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again, it's understandable that someone with your experience in such things would attribute a shoulder and leg hit as something the officer intended to do. Accuracy in a police shoot out is something of a Sasquatch. Just striking the suspect is hard enough with the dynamics of you moving, them moving, adrenaline and stress out the wazoo that speculating they really know the gun is a bb gun and decide to shoot an extremity is kind of funny.  

Did you know some countries DO train their cops to shoot for the leg when possible?
http://www.copinthehood.com/2015/05/aiming-for-legs.html

3 links there on police one.

So if I can find a single example of a police officer firing the gun, but choosing last minute to shoot to wound, it'll render your entire argument invalid, correct?

Las Vegas

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i've been stopped a lot, and usually cops are super cool.  I'm friendly and respectful and so are they.  As a kid, they were a little ruder on me.   Now if I'm out at night, I'm a working man with receding hairline just trying to get home, just like that... most people on the road at night are buzzed and much more worthy targets.

This one particular officer received accommodation in the local newspaper the following month for having the most citations the previous month.  She ran up her numbers by waiting for a poor 18 year old, coming home from work, to give up on a non-functional red light scale at 1am, and pulled me over for it.  Then when I tried to explain the construction left it so the light wouldn't change - which she obviously knew, hiding in the dark waiting for me to do so - then she told me if I said another word, I'd get a ticket for my seat belt - which was on.

I'm a very law abiding citizen.  When someone abuses power like that, screw her.  These days, I'd fight it, but I was just a kid and she was just a 30-something cop trying to get recognized by nailing people due to non-functional light.

I've been stopped lots of times, and most cops are awesome.  Not this one.

Maybe you could have taken a little 5-min video of the light (if phones had vid cameras back then) and beaten the ticket, plus make the cop look clueless.

240 is Back

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It's not my job to justify actions based on one side of a story that happened a decade ago.

This is why people dislike cops.  

"It's not my job..."

This was a cop using a traffic malfunction to stack up tickets so she could win the monthly accommodation, and if you were a cop and I told you about it... you woudln't say "wow, that's messed up" or whatever... you'd just say "not my job..."

THAT is why people hate cops.  If you saw a fellow officer punching a restrained person in handcuffs repeatedly, would you arrest that cop for assault?  Or would you say "not my job, I don't know the back story"?  

I tell ya, that kinda shit is why people don't trust cops.   "Not my job"...

Agnostic007

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Did you know some countries DO train their cops to shoot for the leg when possible?
http://www.copinthehood.com/2015/05/aiming-for-legs.html

3 links there on police one.

So if I can find a single example of a police officer firing the gun, but choosing last minute to shoot to wound, it'll render your entire argument invalid, correct?

Did you even read the article you posted as your support?

dr.chimps

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If I had to choose, Caddyshack of Animal House as the better movie, I would have to go with Animal House
Both good. Bafflegab, Your, Honor.

Las Vegas

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I don't know,other that it is personal to you, how one could rank the treatment you received as a 18 year old with the shooting of a 14 year old

It just shows the mindset of many officers.

Agnostic007

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This is why people dislike cops.  

"It's not my job..."

This was a cop using a traffic malfunction to stack up tickets so she could win the monthly accommodation, and if you were a cop and I told you about it... you woudln't say "wow, that's messed up" or whatever... you'd just say "not my job..."

THAT is why people hate cops.  If you saw a fellow officer punching a restrained person in handcuffs repeatedly, would you arrest that cop for assault?  Or would you say "not my job, I don't know the back story"?  

I tell ya, that kinda shit is why people don't trust cops.   "Not my job"...


First, my conversation with you in this thread was about the shooting. I had no involvement with your personal encounter with a cop years ago and don't know why you even brought that into our discussion. It has nothing to do with deadly force situations or anything remotely similar to what we were talking about. Maybe you got me confused with someone else

secondly, I have seen both sides of the coin. I've had citizens complain about a cop and swear up and down X happened. I've reviewed the video and found X never happened. I've also had the opposite occur. So since I don't know you personally, and I haven't talked to the other party, it would be ridiculous for me to conclude what happened. I can certainly say for sure that  IF everything you said was true, then of course that was inappropriate of the cop. Which monthly "accommodation" was she trying to win? Did you research the location to determine if there were an unusual amount of traffic collisions there?

Lastly, you probably won't see it, but your credibility is not the best. You've been caught putting out false info as gospel many times and then pretend it never happened. Doesn't help your cause. 

 

Las Vegas

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First, my conversation with you in this thread was about the shooting. I had no involvement with your personal encounter with a cop years ago and don't know why you even brought that into our discussion. It has nothing to do with deadly force situations or anything remotely similar to what we were talking about. Maybe you got me confused with someone else

secondly, I have seen both sides of the coin. I've had citizens complain about a cop and swear up and down X happened. I've reviewed the video and found X never happened. I've also had the opposite occur. So since I don't know you personally, and I haven't talked to the other party, it would be ridiculous for me to conclude what happened. I can certainly say for sure that  IF everything you said was true, then of course that was inappropriate of the cop. Which monthly "accommodation" was she trying to win? Did you research the location to determine if there were an unusual amount of traffic collisions there?

Lastly, you probably won't see it, but your credibility is not the best. You've been caught putting out false info as gospel many times and then pretend it never happened. Doesn't help your cause. 

 

What were some of those opposite occurrences?