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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on July 01, 2016, 07:36:38 PM

Title: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Wiggs on July 01, 2016, 07:36:38 PM
I'm not talking low carbs. I'm talking true ketogenic diet under 40gms of carbs.  Whatever your proteins are and of course, a fat source preferably majority monosaturated fats. How long did it take before the craving went away? Did you refeed? What on? How much and what type of cardio? We're you on any clen, t-3, eca, gh?  What were the results? Overall what do you think of that style of dieting?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Erik C on July 01, 2016, 07:50:53 PM
It's the best cut you will ever get. Great definition on any muscle you have, especially abs. Those were impossible to see, when eating carbs. I eat animal source proteins and fats. Plenty of saturated fat, and calories.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: The True Adonis on July 01, 2016, 07:54:54 PM
Just eat 2000 calories.  End thread.

Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: HTexan on July 01, 2016, 08:06:19 PM
Just eat 2000 calories.  End thread.

Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
Might be broscience. But I believe, my Carb sensitivity goes up later in the day.  Therefore, I avoid starchy foods at dinner.
But again that might be bullshit, but I notice I lose more weight this way.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: rocket on July 01, 2016, 08:08:39 PM
Effective but entirely unnecessary.  Easier to do with with just a bit more carbs.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Frank Reynolds on July 01, 2016, 08:45:43 PM
Only way to diet for hardgainers
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Submissionfytr on July 01, 2016, 09:12:53 PM
Have a close friend who got/is absolutely shredded from no carbs/keto. He said it was 3 months of hell, living on ground turkey and flank steak, plus hour of cardio a day. But he is ripped to the bone so I believe no carbs can work miracles
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Griffith on July 01, 2016, 11:57:20 PM
Zero energy, felt terrible and lost muscle.

Would never advice this diet to anyone, ever.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Bulgarian_enforcer on July 02, 2016, 12:03:44 AM
Zero energy, felt terrible and lost muscle.

Would never advice this diet to anyone, ever.


I felt pretty much the same. I agree with Htexan, carb meals during the early part of the day are fine, cutting carbs during dinner time is important for fat loss.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: cephissus on July 02, 2016, 01:27:52 AM
Have a close friend who got/is absolutely shredded from no carbs/keto. He said it was 3 months of hell, living on ground turkey and flank steak, plus hour of cardio a day. But he is ripped to the bone so I believe no carbs can work miracles

ground turkey and steak will not put you in ketosis, unless you're eating like <1000 calories a day

50%+ protein turns to glucose, 100 gm/day max glucose for ketosis (roughly speaking) so...

I'm talking true ketogenic diet under 40gms of carbs.

since when is the "true ketogenic diet" under 40 grams carbohydrate?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: local hero on July 02, 2016, 01:33:57 AM
Only way to diet for hardgainers


What u on about.... Isn't a hardgainer a skinny rake like fella? Surely the opposite would be true in that case.


In my experience eating as much as possible and doing extra work results in a much better physique, when I say as much as possible i mean as much as you can and still loose a few lbs
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: MAXX on July 02, 2016, 01:34:14 AM
I don't believe in  this diet for performance and gains.

This no carb approach is only for short term diet to lose alot of fat. 2 months tops imo. For a fat fck like yourself it might work but you will probably regain all the weight after the diet anyways.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: calfzilla on July 02, 2016, 02:20:15 AM
Works great but for me it is not enjoyable. Too many foods you can't ever eat. First few days are rough but after that your appetite drops way off and it's a lot easier. Social situations suck because food is almost always involved and you can't eat 90% of what's out there.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Wiggs on July 02, 2016, 06:18:45 AM
I don't believe in  this diet for performance and gains.

This no carb approach is only for short term diet to lose alot of fat. 2 months tops imo. For a fat fck like yourself it might work but you will probably regain all the weight after the diet anyways.

You'd be surprised how fat I'm not... :-*
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Wiggs on July 02, 2016, 06:29:51 AM
Effective but entirely unnecessary.  Easier to do with with just a bit more carbs.

When you come out of ketosis and go low carbs, don't you stay tired because your body is running on low carbs vs. ketones?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Never1AShow on July 02, 2016, 07:48:51 AM
Have a close friend who got/is absolutely shredded from no carbs/keto. He said it was 3 months of hell, living on ground turkey and flank steak, plus hour of cardio a day. But he is ripped to the bone so I believe no carbs can work miracles

But size wise did he fry like a piece of bacon?  I think it's great for losing weight/fat, but not for maintaining muscle unless duck eggs.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on July 02, 2016, 08:34:48 AM
For losing fat, fast, it's hard to beat, partly because most high carb foods: pizza, ice cream, fries etc. are also high fat. So, eliminating all these foods will result in a dramatic calorie reduction.

That said, Ketosis is a starvation response. The body doesn't want to be in it. That's why you get "kicked out" so easily. I've found I sleep poorly on very low carbs. Others have experienced this, as well. It's attributed to increased cortisol production.

From an athletic performance standpoint, high intensity training will suffer. The studies cited about low carb performance have the participants training at 60% VO2 max.The low carbs gurus like Volek and Phinney talk a good game, but all the elite runners and cyclists eat high carbs.

Bottom line: Great for quick fat loss. Unsustainable and undesirable, for most, long term.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Simple Simon on July 02, 2016, 08:49:49 AM
I dieted for 10 weeks this year on very low carbs, it fucking killed me, made me ill, my trining was totally shot, I couldnt even walk the dogs.
I added in carbs and within a week I felt 100% better, it even kickstarted fat loss as I had stalled.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: _aj_ on July 02, 2016, 08:51:46 AM
I dieted for 10 weeks this year on very low carbs, it fucking killed me, made me ill, my trining was totally shot, I couldnt even walk the dogs.
I added in carbs and within a week I felt 100% better, it even kickstarted fat loss as I had stalled.

There's a rather large group of deconditioned folks at my office doing keto. They all look like death while I eat huge buckets of meat, rice and veggies. Oh well.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: bigmc on July 02, 2016, 08:55:38 AM
the true adonis principles

have been proven to be the most effective diet

true story
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on July 02, 2016, 08:55:47 AM
But size wise did he fry like a piece of bacon?  I think it's great for losing weight/fat, but not for maintaining muscle unless duck eggs.

Another problem is that you have to keep Protein intake low, otherwise it will be converted to glucose via Gluconeogenesis and kick you out of Ketosis.  

Good luck selling bodybuilders a low Protein diet.

As an aside, Iron Radio just had an excellent Podcast on the subject.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Erik C on July 02, 2016, 09:10:03 AM
A real keto diet is not a high protein diet. It is an extremely low carb diet, with high fat intake, and "moderate" protein intake. Unless your "keto" diet is at least 60% fats, it won't work.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Mr Anabolic on July 02, 2016, 09:21:25 AM
Did this for an entire year when I was in my mid 20's.  Was natty during this time.  

I followed protocol from the book "The Anabolic Diet" by Mauro Di Pascuale.  6 days no carb.  Sunday was carb day.  After 3-4 days without carbs, I became flat as a pancake, but I was very cut.  

Leg day was always very difficult.  I felt like death afterwards.  My Thursday, Friday and Saturday workouts were lackluster due to low energy and lack of pump.

Sunday was a fun day.  The carbs were heavenly going down, but I felt comatose afterward.  I was bloated as hell too.  I remember farting for 2 days straight.  It's really difficult going on dates when you're launching odiferous gas bombs every 10-15 minutes.
  
I lost a lot of water and moderate amount of fat, but never made any solid muscle gains during the entire year.  Just a few pounds up and down due to water retention and water loss.

Finally, I got sick of the yo-yo effects on my blood sugar level and my overall mood and went back to eating normally.

Several people who were on roids at the time would swear this was the only way to get cut, but they had the drugs giving them a lift during training.  
 

Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: HavoX on July 02, 2016, 09:42:45 AM
the true adonis principles

have been proven to be the most effective diet

true story

You mean the fda guidelines developed in the 60s with added protein for bodybuilders?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: The True Adonis on July 02, 2016, 07:14:38 PM
You mean the fda guidelines developed in the 60s with added protein for bodybuilders?
You don't even need "added" protein. 
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: HavoX on July 02, 2016, 07:24:53 PM
You don't even need "added" protein. 

http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm064928.htm (http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm064928.htm)

50g a day? You're an iron beast, sir
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: rocket on July 02, 2016, 07:38:56 PM
Another problem is that you have to keep Protein intake low, otherwise it will be converted to glucose via Gluconeogenesis and kick you out of Ketosis. 

Good luck selling bodybuilders a low Protein diet.

As an aside, Iron Radio just had an excellent Podcast on the subject.

Didn't know that - when I did it I did do some ketostix piss tests and they came up good..

Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Erik C on July 02, 2016, 08:04:14 PM
Another problem is that you have to keep Protein intake low, otherwise it will be converted to glucose via Gluconeogenesis and kick you out of Ketosis.  

Good luck selling bodybuilders a low Protein diet.

As an aside, Iron Radio just had an excellent Podcast on the subject.

Total Bull Shit!
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Wiggs on July 02, 2016, 08:06:30 PM
All of you saying that you go into gluconeogenesis with excess protein are wrong.  That is not true.  This is a myth.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: calfzilla on July 02, 2016, 08:12:53 PM
All of you saying that you go into gluconeogenesis with excess protein are wrong.  That is not true.  This is a myth.

X2
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Erik C on July 02, 2016, 08:19:21 PM
X2

X3
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: TheGrinch on July 03, 2016, 08:36:11 AM
Just eat 2000 calories.  End thread.

Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?

Because... no

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=612676.0;topicseen
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on July 03, 2016, 08:50:35 AM
What usually happens with Keto zealots is that they start pouring heavy cream on their bacon cheeseburgers. When they don't lose weight, they say fuck it and start eating carbs.

Food addiction must be treated as a mental disorder. Without the psychological aspect being addressed, no diet will work long term.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Rammstein on July 03, 2016, 09:02:16 AM
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13567239_975630079217693_8695664069885378999_n.jpg?oh=0736e0ac3e720f7c123ce0f3f608bff5&oe=583297CD)
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Go 4 It on July 03, 2016, 02:11:49 PM
8 weeks progress on Keto from my second show, felt like absolute death for about 10 days, almost quit my prep all together, I was a walking zombie, no power, no energy, workouts absolutely sucked, but my coach at the time kept increasing my fats until he found my sweet spot, all of a sudden boom, my body must of hit ketosis because I began to feel good, I mean real good, total focus, like I was in a zone, no crashes lots of energy, my workouts were great, progress by the day..never seen anything like it, everyday I was leaner and leaner, I had 1 refeed the entire 8 weeks. At my show I had tons of energy, felt great. I'll say it's a tough diet, most people can't stick out the transition period, it is hell, they call it the keto flu, if you can just hang in there this diet can be a thing of beauty. I had no cravings, energy was total stable
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Simple Simon on July 03, 2016, 02:23:01 PM
8 weeks progress on Keto from my second show, felt like absolute death for about 10 days, almost quit my prep all together, I was a walking zombie, no power, no energy, workouts absolutely sucked, but my coach at the time kept increasing my fats until he found my sweet spot, all of a sudden boom, my body must of hit ketosis because I began to feel good, I mean real good, total focus, like I was in a zone, no crashes lots of energy, my workouts were great, progress by the day..never seen anything like it, everyday I was leaner and leaner, I had 1 refeed the entire 8 weeks. At my show I had tons of energy, felt great. I'll say it's a tough diet, most people can't stick out the transition period, it is hell, they call it the keto flu, if you can just hang in there this diet can be a thing of beauty. I had no cravings, energy was total stable

I bet he fucking did.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Go 4 It on July 03, 2016, 02:27:40 PM
I bet he fucking did.
haha
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Wiggs on July 03, 2016, 02:31:08 PM
8 weeks progress on Keto from my second show, felt like absolute death for about 10 days, almost quit my prep all together, I was a walking zombie, no power, no energy, workouts absolutely sucked, but my coach at the time kept increasing my fats until he found my sweet spot, all of a sudden boom, my body must of hit ketosis because I began to feel good, I mean real good, total focus, like I was in a zone, no crashes lots of energy, my workouts were great, progress by the day..never seen anything like it, everyday I was leaner and leaner, I had 1 refeed the entire 8 weeks. At my show I had tons of energy, felt great. I'll say it's a tough diet, most people can't stick out the transition period, it is hell, they call it the keto flu, if you can just hang in there this diet can be a thing of beauty. I had no cravings, energy was total stable

How much fat and protein did you end up eating when your coach found the sweet spot?  Meaning ratio of protein to fat.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: cephissus on July 03, 2016, 02:36:32 PM
8 weeks progress on Keto from my second show, felt like absolute death for about 10 days, almost quit my prep all together, I was a walking zombie, no power, no energy, workouts absolutely sucked, but my coach at the time kept increasing my fats until he found my sweet spot, all of a sudden boom, my body must of hit ketosis because I began to feel good, I mean real good, total focus, like I was in a zone, no crashes lots of energy, my workouts were great, progress by the day..never seen anything like it, everyday I was leaner and leaner, I had 1 refeed the entire 8 weeks. At my show I had tons of energy, felt great. I'll say it's a tough diet, most people can't stick out the transition period, it is hell, they call it the keto flu, if you can just hang in there this diet can be a thing of beauty. I had no cravings, energy was total stable

Supposedly 'adaptation' can take 2 or 3 months, or so says lyle
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Go 4 It on July 03, 2016, 02:41:31 PM
How much fat and protein did you end up eating when your coach found the sweet spot?  Meaning ratio of protein to fat.
Not really sure, I was eating a lot of grass fed beef, sometimes 3 times a day, 1 egg meal of 6 omega 3 eggs, 1 chicken meal with some almonds, and salmon...lots of greens with mac nut oil. But ratios I'm not really sure dude
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Mrdibbs on July 03, 2016, 02:41:40 PM
Right before going into ketosis you become absolutely nuts. The brain probably doesn't have that much fuel avaiable in the transitioning fase.

Pissed a bucket of water out in a few weeks (and probably some fat as well). Looked sliced but absolutely couldn't shit anymore. Tried everything from baking shit in coconut oil to loads of fibred vegetables. Only shitters nightmare. And stopped because of that.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: cephissus on July 03, 2016, 02:46:01 PM
Not really sure, I was eating a lot of grass fed beef, sometimes 3 times a day, 1 egg meal of 6 omega 3 eggs, 1 chicken meal with some almonds, and salmon...lots of greens with mac nut oil. But ratios I'm not really sure dude

Have you done bloodwork since starting this diet?  If so, any changes?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Erik C on July 03, 2016, 02:49:58 PM
Right before going into ketosis you become absolutely nuts. The brain probably doesn't have that much fuel avaiable in the transitioning fase.

Pissed a bucket of water out in a few weeks (and probably some fat as well). Looked sliced but absolutely couldn't shit anymore. Tried everything from baking shit in coconut oil to loads of fibred vegetables. Only shitters nightmare. And stopped because of that.

So you didn't really do keto. The the brain operates perfectly on ketones.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Go 4 It on July 03, 2016, 02:54:51 PM
Have you done bloodwork since starting this diet?  If so, any changes?
I don't get bloodwork done regularly so I can't say, what kind of changes it had on me..I can just say I felt really good, lots of energy. Skin, hair..everything looked nice as well.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: CC973 on July 03, 2016, 03:18:52 PM
A keto diet with macros kept close to 80% fat 15% protein and 5% carbs is far and away the best plan fat burning while maintaining lean muscle tissue. Not to mention all the other great health benefits of being in a ketogenic state.

Those who still maintain this calorie is a calorie nonsense don't know ish about nutrition.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Mrdibbs on July 03, 2016, 03:22:46 PM
So you didn't really do keto. The the brain operates perfectly on ketones.

Trust me i did. Multiple sticks full of pis indicating ketosis. The transitioning fase was nuts. After that, mentally fine.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Go 4 It on July 03, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
Trust me i did. Multiple sticks full of pis indicating ketosis. The transitioning fase was nuts. After that, mentally fine.
Those sticks are highly inaccurate, only way to measure is through blood -glucometer
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on July 03, 2016, 03:46:20 PM
I don't get bloodwork done regularly so I can't say, what kind of changes it had on me..I can just say I felt really good, lots of energy. Skin, hair..everything looked nice as well.

From a standpoint of competing in a bodybuilding show and getting as lean as humanly possible for a limited amount of time, Keto makes sense.

The question is whether you would or could implement this diet every day for the rest of your life?

Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Mrdibbs on July 03, 2016, 03:54:41 PM
Those sticks are highly inaccurate, only way to measure is through blood -glucometer

Used ones from work. They're pretty accurate.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_wW8zD9tEMI/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: cephissus on July 03, 2016, 03:55:18 PM
A keto diet with macros kept close to 80% fat 15% protein and 5% carbs is far and away the best plan fat burning while maintaining lean muscle tissue. Not to mention all the other great health benefits of being in a ketogenic state.

Those who still maintain this calorie is a calorie nonsense don't know ish about nutrition.

any concern about atherosclerosis ???

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/36/15418.full
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Erik C on July 03, 2016, 08:22:56 PM
any concern about atherosclerosis ???

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/36/15418.full

No concern about atherosclerosis at all. Look at the percentages listed in the study. Anything over 10% carbs, isn't a real low carb diet, over 30% protein isn't good, and less than 60% fat will be a problem.

I've seen studies where over 50% carbs were described as a low carb diet. That's ridiculous. At least 60% fats, never more than 30% proteins, and always less than 10% carbs, is the ideal here.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Wiggs on July 03, 2016, 08:28:40 PM
I don't know why protein needs to be so low and fats so high.  If you're juicing you're going to use that protein and it won't go to waste.  If you're natural and just trying to cut you wont need as much because the muscle sparring effect of ketosis.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Rammstein on July 03, 2016, 10:02:41 PM
From a standpoint of competing in a bodybuilding show and getting as lean as humanly possible for a limited amount of time, Keto makes sense.

The question is whether you would or could implement this diet every day for the rest of your life?



You certainly can:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/PrincipiaCarnivora/

http://zerocarbzen.com/zero-carb/ (Esmee La Fleur)

http://highsteaks.com/ (Ash Simmonds)

http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/(Kelly Williams Hogan)

http://www.empiri.ca/ (Amber Wilcox-O'Hearn)

http://www.ketotic.org/ (Amber Wilcox-O’Hearn)
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: chokeslam on July 03, 2016, 10:17:30 PM
Zero energy, felt terrible and lost muscle.

Would never advice this diet to anyone, ever.


Lost muscle? Really? That sounds like fatass talk to me.

The truth is that you'll lose some muscle volume - but remember, muscle is fiber and a ton of water. You can replenish that volume with ease. You're not "losing muscle". Eat some carbs, have a sippy poo of water and shut up.

Fat or skinny, you'll shrink a little... but leaner guys will not complain all that much because it just takes one good meal to pump right back up. Fat guys that lose a ton of thickness are the only ones who bicker and moan because once their "size" is gone, they're just skinny fat. Lean guys can pump right back up and look a hundred times better. Stick it out and in the long run (like, 3 or 4 fricken days) and you'll be sliced and diced.

I personally loathe keto diets. One or two days feels like an eternity. I love food and love cooking. I do however do keto dieting. I'll do a few days of keto, fat will deflate, water will leave beneath the skin and I'm in great shape. I've gone as far as a couple of weeks of TRUE keto dieting and got ripped to the bone. If I ever need to get ultra lean, I'll suck it up and just do keto. Low cals and other dietary manipulation works, but nothing beats keto. Just suck it up and cut the carbs out, take some fat burners and optimize the miserable period. If you're spending months cutting, you're way beyond fat... you're a fucking blimp or not really dieting properly.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: cephissus on July 03, 2016, 10:22:00 PM
I don't know why protein needs to be so low and fats so high.  If you're juicing you're going to use that protein and it won't go to waste.  If you're natural and just trying to cut you wont need as much because the muscle sparring effect of ketosis.

according to lyle, 50%+ of your protein turns to glucose, hence the requirement to keep it low.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Bulgarian_enforcer on July 04, 2016, 01:24:41 AM
Lost muscle? Really? That sounds like fatass talk to me.

The truth is that you'll lose some muscle volume - but remember, muscle is fiber and a ton of water. You can replenish that volume with ease. You're not "losing muscle". Eat some carbs, have a sippy poo of water and shut up.

Fat or skinny, you'll shrink a little... but leaner guys will not complain all that much because it just takes one good meal to pump right back up. Fat guys that lose a ton of thickness are the only ones who bicker and moan because once their "size" is gone, they're just skinny fat. Lean guys can pump right back up and look a hundred times better. Stick it out and in the long run (like, 3 or 4 fricken days) and you'll be sliced and diced.

I personally loathe keto diets. One or two days feels like an eternity. I love food and love cooking. I do however do keto dieting. I'll do a few days of keto, fat will deflate, water will leave beneath the skin and I'm in great shape. I've gone as far as a couple of weeks of TRUE keto dieting and got ripped to the bone. If I ever need to get ultra lean, I'll suck it up and just do keto. Low cals and other dietary manipulation works, but nothing beats keto. Just suck it up and cut the carbs out, take some fat burners and optimize the miserable period. If you're spending months cutting, you're way beyond fat... you're a fucking blimp or not really dieting properly.

who the fuck are you again, speaking like some guru and shit? :)
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: oldschoolfan on July 04, 2016, 08:33:44 AM
8 weeks progress on Keto from my second show, felt like absolute death for about 10 days, almost quit my prep all together, I was a walking zombie, no power, no energy, workouts absolutely sucked, but my coach at the time kept increasing my fats until he found my sweet spot, all of a sudden boom, my body must of hit ketosis because I began to feel good, I mean real good, total focus, like I was in a zone, no crashes lots of energy, my workouts were great, progress by the day..never seen anything like it, everyday I was leaner and leaner, I had 1 refeed the entire 8 weeks. At my show I had tons of energy, felt great. I'll say it's a tough diet, most people can't stick out the transition period, it is hell, they call it the keto flu, if you can just hang in there this diet can be a thing of beauty. I had no cravings, energy was total stable


go for it were you able to do cardio while on this diet ?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on July 04, 2016, 09:59:25 AM
according to lyle, 50%+ of your protein turns to glucose, hence the requirement to keep it low.

Ketosis is a starvation response. The body would prefer to not be on it.

Ironically, that why it's works so well for contest prep, as bodybuilders essentially starve themselves to get ultra ripped.

Now, do you think Keto would be the best choice for MMA fighters, or Decathletes?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Anglo on July 04, 2016, 10:25:38 AM
8 weeks progress on Keto from my second show, felt like absolute death for about 10 days, almost quit my prep all together, I was a walking zombie, no power, no energy, workouts absolutely sucked, but my coach at the time kept increasing my fats until he found my sweet spot, all of a sudden boom, my body must of hit ketosis because I began to feel good, I mean real good, total focus, like I was in a zone, no crashes lots of energy, my workouts were great, progress by the day..never seen anything like it, everyday I was leaner and leaner, I had 1 refeed the entire 8 weeks. At my show I had tons of energy, felt great. I'll say it's a tough diet, most people can't stick out the transition period, it is hell, they call it the keto flu, if you can just hang in there this diet can be a thing of beauty. I had no cravings, energy was total stable

Post your diet so your Get Big brethren can achieve the same degree of vaginal magnetism  :D
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Wiggs on July 04, 2016, 10:42:05 AM
Ketsosis is not a starvation response. Your body burns one of two things for fuel. carbs----> glucose or fats -------> ketones. Using fats ----------> to ketones is much better fuel source vs. glucose.  What it is, is in the West where carbs dominate and people have been brainwashed into believing that carbs are the preferred fuel source when in fact, they are not.  Your body to include your brain runs much more efficient as fats as a fuel source.  Remember 1 gm of carbs = 4 calories (energy) 1 gm of fat = 9 gms.  You get more energy out of one gm of fat vs. 1 gm of carbs.

The problem is, your average person doesn't have the willpower to get into ketosis and stay and let it do it's thing so they do it for a week and quit and say how horrible it is. It takes time for your body to change from using glucose as a fuel source to fats.

A starvation response would be if you were on no carbs and low fats.  Your body would then use protein to convert into glucose as a fuel source via gluconeogenesis.

There is no dietary need for carbohydrates.  Fats do what carbs do better (monosaturated fats preferably then saturated fats). For bodybuilding offseason, different story.  For carbing up for a show, different story.  As far as dieting, no carbs are needed (sans a refeed).  Ideally (grass fed) animal proteins with fats and organic veggies and monosaturated fats is the ideal get ripped and get healthy diet.  Keto is very good for your brain, mood, performance etc.  

Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: calfzilla on July 04, 2016, 10:44:34 AM
Post your diet so your Get Big brethren can achieve the same degree of vaginal magnetism  :D

He's a good dude but is on a boatload of drugs and claims natty.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: TuHolmes on July 04, 2016, 10:47:07 AM
Wiggs, how do you explain places like Japan where they are very carb dependent and always have been.

Rice and noodles and what not?

I have always been intrigued by ketones, but I find it interesting that some cultures seem to be able to do the exact opposite and as a society be relatively thin. (Compared to the typical American diet).

Chalk it up to it not being fried?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Never1AShow on July 04, 2016, 10:53:48 AM
A Pizza Hut medium supreme pizza has 290 calories per slice and 8 slices.  2320 calories.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: TuHolmes on July 04, 2016, 11:07:25 AM
A Pizza Hut medium supreme pizza has 290 calories per slice and 8 slices.  2320 calories.

True, but I wouldn't eat more than a slice or two really. 3 tops. Who is eating the whole thing?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on July 04, 2016, 11:14:44 AM
Wiggs, how do you explain places like Japan where they are very carb dependent and always have been.

Rice and noodles and what not?

I have always been intrigued by ketones, but I find it interesting that some cultures seem to be able to do the exact opposite and as a society be relatively thin. (Compared to the typical American diet).

Chalk it up to it not being fried?

If the body wanted to be in Ketosis all the time, it would be your default state. It's not. You have to try real hard to get into it. The reason there is no "essential" carbohydrate is that the body can make glucose from other sources.

The reason the brain prefers glucose to fat is that the former is a faster acting energy source and often in life you have to think fast.

From a performance standpoint, Kenyans and Ethiopians have dominated distance running for the last 30 years on a high carb diet. I don't see what's stopping all the low carb gurus from training their own group of "fat adapted" super athletes to put those pesky Africans out of business.

Here's the bottom line: Fat is for low intensity activities; carbs for high. Through training you can raise the threshold of what the body sees as high intensity. This silly one versus the other debate just creates a false dichotomy where none really exists.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Go 4 It on July 04, 2016, 11:51:35 AM

go for it were you able to do cardio while on this diet ?
yes varied from 45 min to up to 90 min a day depending on the day, off days I would do 90, 45min in am and 45min in the evening of swimming.
Post your diet so your Get Big brethren can achieve the same degree of vaginal magnetism  :D
It was:
1: 6 omega 3 eggs, with spinach omelet
2: 6 oz grass fed beef, broccoli
3: 6 oz chicken, spinach salad with mac nut oil, handful of almonds
4: 6 oz grass fed beef, asparagus, sprinkle  olive oil on aspargus
5: whey isolate, with almond butter
6: either 6 oz salmon or grass fed beef and spinach
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Anglo on July 04, 2016, 11:54:32 AM
yes varied from 45 min to up to 90 min a day depending on the day, off days I would do 90, 45min in am and 45min in the evening of swimming.It was:
1: 6 omega 3 eggs, with spinach omelet
2: 6 oz grass fed beef, broccoli
3: 6 oz chicken, spinach salad with mac nut oil, handful of almonds
4: 6 oz grass fed beef, asparagus, sprinkle  olive oil on aspargus
5: whey isolate, with almond butter
6: either 6 oz salmon or grass fed beef and spinach

Thanks, have you any intention eat carbs in the future?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Go 4 It on July 04, 2016, 12:01:32 PM
Thanks, have you any intention eat carbs in the future?
yes I'm eating carbs now, that was my contest diet at the time
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: chokeslam on July 04, 2016, 12:01:53 PM
who the fuck are you again, speaking like some guru and shit? :)

Doesn't take a guru to spot a stupid statement.

When someone says that a diet, training or anything made them "lose muscle" it should raise suspicion. You don't just lose muscle the way the parroting, literature internet bodybuilders says.

People seem to think if you miss the anabolic window or don't stoke the metabolic furnace that they'll go catabolic and die. Their evidence is just empiracle fatceps deflation. Lord help them.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Disgusted on July 04, 2016, 12:08:57 PM
If you are following a low to zero carb diet and you are losing muscle and have no energy you are doing it wrong.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: efirkey on July 04, 2016, 12:10:49 PM
Wiggs, how do you explain places like Japan where they are very carb dependent and always have been.

Rice and noodles and what not?

I have always been intrigued by ketones, but I find it interesting that some cultures seem to be able to do the exact opposite and as a society be relatively thin. (Compared to the typical American diet).

Chalk it up to it not being fried?

Japan's diet is very glucose heavy.  It is the fructose (sugar - half fructose) which is not in their diet that is making everyone fat.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: TuHolmes on July 04, 2016, 12:19:37 PM
Japan's diet is very glucose heavy.  It is the fructose (sugar - half fructose) which is not in their diet that is making everyone fat.

Seems plausible. Thanks for the input. Seriously.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: efirkey on July 04, 2016, 12:24:09 PM
It should also be noted that as Japan's people are eating a more westernized diet.  They to are starting to have all the same problems, obesity, heart disease, and diabetes, that the rest of the world is experiencing.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: TuHolmes on July 04, 2016, 01:08:00 PM
It should also be noted that as Japan's people are eating a more westernized diet.  They to are starting to have all the same problems, obesity, heart disease, and diabetes, that the rest of the world is experiencing.

Yeah. They had it righ . Now look at them.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: cephissus on July 04, 2016, 05:30:05 PM
Ketsosis is not a starvation response. Your body burns one of two things for fuel. carbs----> glucose or fats -------> ketones.

False.  For example, many cells can run directly on fatty acids while in ketosis.  Some tissues can use ketones, some FFA, some glucose, many some combination of the three.

Quote
Using fats ----------> to ketones is much better fuel source vs. glucose.

Why?

Quote
What it is, is in the West where carbs dominate and people have been brainwashed into believing that carbs are the preferred fuel source when in fact, they are not.  Your body to include your brain runs much more efficient as fats as a fuel source.  Remember 1 gm of carbs = 4 calories (energy) 1 gm of fat = 9 gms.  You get more energy out of one gm of fat vs. 1 gm of carbs.

What does this have to do with "efficiency"?  Also, anyone can easily meet their energy needs by eating the same amount of calories from carbohydrate as fat, so how is this point significant whatsoever?

Quote
The problem is, your average person doesn't have the willpower to get into ketosis and stay and let it do it's thing so they do it for a week and quit and say how horrible it is. It takes time for your body to change from using glucose as a fuel source to fats.

Possibly, but what about people who have tried Ketosis for more prolonged periods and still reported ill-feelings?  Thongwarrior, for example, tried a ketogenic diet for at least a month, if I'm not mistaken?

That said, I've heard varying stories about the "keto adaptation" period, with some saying it takes more time (e.g. 3-6) months.  I've even heard "years", but mostly from random youtube gurus, so I don't take those claims too seriously.

Quote
There is no dietary need for carbohydrates.  Fats do what carbs do better (monosaturated fats preferably then saturated fats).

There's no dietary need for much of anything.  You can live for quite a long time, just scraping by in a state of starved lunacy... I would know.  While carbohydrates may not be "necessary", a diet which includes them certainly has a different effect on the body, and who's to say it's worse?

Well, Wiggs, for one.  Again you claim fats are a "better" energy source than carbohydrate.  Why?  What about the lower power output, changes in brain chemistry, etc.?  Are these all for the better?

Quote
For bodybuilding offseason, different story.  For carbing up for a show, different story.  As far as dieting, no carbs are needed (sans a refeed).  Ideally (grass fed) animal proteins with fats and organic veggies and monosaturated fats is the ideal get ripped and get healthy diet.  Keto is very good for your brain, mood, performance etc.  

What kind of "performance"?  Are you just talking about dieting, or staying in ketosis long term?  And most importantly, are you speaking from experience?
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Never1AShow on July 04, 2016, 06:13:01 PM
True, but I wouldn't eat more than a slice or two really. 3 tops. Who is eating the whole thing?

Dj181 on that other thread.  Says that is dinner along with McDonald's for breakfast.  Claims 6 percent bf.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: oldschoolfan on July 04, 2016, 06:15:21 PM
i think   goforit is right about upping the fat , for energy.   i had used similar diet in my early 20's and got good results  i was keeping my carbs

to around 50gs a day or less,   the only carbs i would have is a hamburger bun.  sometimes if i felt like i was going to die i would drink a coke

this diet does work if you can  get over the low carbs part that is hard at first.   
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: oldschoolfan on July 04, 2016, 06:18:15 PM
If you are following a low to zero carb diet and you are losing muscle and have no energy you are doing it wrong.

disgusted when you put someone on a low carb diet do you have them eat more fats for energy ? i know you have used this quite a bit with your  clients
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: TuHolmes on July 04, 2016, 06:44:10 PM
Dj181 on that other thread.  Says that is dinner along with McDonald's for breakfast.  Claims 6 percent bf.

Here's must have the greatest metabolism ever. Or the best drugs.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on July 04, 2016, 06:56:28 PM
The Olympics are coming up. How many athletes does anyone think are in Ketosis?

If the over/under were 1, I'd bet the under.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: oldschoolfan on July 04, 2016, 07:40:54 PM
scott alexander does low  carbs  and he is ripped as hell


Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: cephissus on July 04, 2016, 07:49:23 PM
The Olympics are coming up. How many athletes does anyone think are in Ketosis?

If the over/under were 1, I'd bet the under.

Even the most hardcore keto advocates will say you have lower peak power, so it's not appropriate for many sports.  Yet some gurus keep raving about the potential for endurance activities (where peak power doesn't mean as much) -- but how long will it take before we see keto-winners on the podium?  

If it were true, shouldn't it have happened by now?  Has it happened?  Somehow I think I would have heard about it...

???
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Go 4 It on July 04, 2016, 08:54:55 PM
Even the most hardcore keto advocates will say you have lower peak power, so it's not appropriate for many sports.  Yet some gurus keep raving about the potential for endurance activities (where peak power doesn't mean as much) -- but how long will it take before we see keto-winners on the podium?  

If it were true, shouldn't it have happened by now?  Has it happened?  Somehow I think I would have heard about it...

???
I heard this discussion on a podcast with the guy that wrote the Primal Blueprint diet Mark Sisson, he was saying most elite athletes aren't willing to experiment with it due to the fact they have so much at stake if their performance decreases, most of these athletes have gotten to a high level with whatever nutritional protocol they have been using, it's very hard for someone to scrap their current nutritional program and try something completely different, especially with big money at stake, he also said it could be months until they start seeing the real benefits. I get what he was saying. Its a big gamble, for these athletes so theres not much data out there. For me I was doing a local show, for no prize money, it's not the end of the world if I don't get the best results and don't win my show, not much at stake here, especially because I compete for fun, also I'm interested in trying different nutritional tactics and seeing how I react to them, for me it worked and I won my show, but I'm not an elite athlete, and men's physique is definitely not an endurance sport so who knows..
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: chokeslam on July 04, 2016, 08:55:46 PM
The Olympics are coming up. How many athletes does anyone think are in Ketosis?

If the over/under were 1, I'd bet the under.

This is muscle thongs, not some weak ass Olympic shit.

The two clearly aren't on the same level. Live by the thong, die by the thong.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: cephissus on July 05, 2016, 02:03:13 AM
I heard this discussion on a podcast with the guy that wrote the Primal Blueprint diet Mark Sisson, he was saying most elite athletes aren't willing to experiment with it due to the fact they have so much at stake if their performance decreases, most of these athletes have gotten to a high level with whatever nutritional protocol they have been using, it's very hard for someone to scrap their current nutritional program and try something completely different, especially with big money at stake, he also said it could be months until they start seeing the real benefits. I get what he was saying. Its a big gamble, for these athletes so theres not much data out there. For me I was doing a local show, for no prize money, it's not the end of the world if I don't get the best results and don't win my show, not much at stake here, especially because I compete for fun, also I'm interested in trying different nutritional tactics and seeing how I react to them, for me it worked and I won my show, but I'm not an elite athlete, and men's physique is definitely not an endurance sport so who knows..

mark dreamed up a bunch of "reasons" -- it's easy to do when you have protein powders to sell.  how about this one: "elite athletes have all the money in the world behind them so they can hire the smartest trainers who have been able to develop the best training programs after experimenting on countless lower-level athletes."

makes sense, huh?  ::)

anyway, nothing against you, just can't stand that guy.  actually i think it's cool that you made the switch and are willing to give advice.  if peak power is really affected, then lifting should be affected as well.  have you noticed any difference in performance?  especially as the week goes on and (presumably) your glycogen levels are nearly finished?  (i think you eat carbs one day a week, iirc)

oddly i've heard several anecdotes from forumers, saying no difference in performance, despite virtually every "scientific" source i've read saying this shouldn't be possible.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: falco on July 05, 2016, 02:36:37 AM
I have tried it but felt so weak and flat within days that i stopped. I get leanner and fuller on very high carbs/protein and near zero fats.
I believe keto does wonders for some bodytypes, but it's not for me.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on July 05, 2016, 03:43:22 AM
mark dreamed up a bunch of "reasons" -- it's easy to do when you have protein powders to sell.  how about this one: "elite athletes have all the money in the world behind them so they can hire the smartest trainers who have been able to develop the best training programs after experimenting on countless lower-level athletes."

makes sense, huh?  ::)

anyway, nothing against you, just can't stand that guy.  actually i think it's cool that you made the switch and are willing to give advice.  if peak power is really affected, then lifting should be affected as well.  have you noticed any difference in performance?  especially as the week goes on and (presumably) your glycogen levels are nearly finished?  (i think you eat carbs one day a week, iirc)

oddly i've heard several anecdotes from forumers, saying no difference in performance, despite virtually every "scientific" source i've read saying this shouldn't be possible.

Last time I heard Sisson on a Podcast, he had dropped the Keto for improved performance silliness and was trumpeting seeing how many carbs you can get away with.

The calorie myth guys are also backtracking and saying calories in/out is an "oversimplification."

It's guys, who think they know more than everyone else, trying to reinvent the wheel and failing.

Fats are a slower burning energy source than carbs, and, as a result, will be less effective for high intensity efforts. It's as simple as that.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: oldschoolfan on July 05, 2016, 05:04:02 AM
I heard this discussion on a podcast with the guy that wrote the Primal Blueprint diet Mark Sisson, he was saying most elite athletes aren't willing to experiment with it due to the fact they have so much at stake if their performance decreases, most of these athletes have gotten to a high level with whatever nutritional protocol they have been using, it's very hard for someone to scrap their current nutritional program and try something completely different, especially with big money at stake, he also said it could be months until they start seeing the real benefits. I get what he was saying. Its a big gamble, for these athletes so theres not much data out there. For me I was doing a local show, for no prize money, it's not the end of the world if I don't get the best results and don't win my show, not much at stake here, especially because I compete for fun, also I'm interested in trying different nutritional tactics and seeing how I react to them, for me it worked and I won my show, but I'm not an elite athlete, and men's physique is definitely not an endurance sport so who knows..

hey go4it thanks for posting your diet, just curious did you drop body weight and fat ? or just fat   
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Thin Lizzy on July 05, 2016, 05:18:52 AM
Even the most hardcore keto advocates will say you have lower peak power, so it's not appropriate for many sports.  Yet some gurus keep raving about the potential for endurance activities (where peak power doesn't mean as much) -- but how long will it take before we see keto-winners on the podium?  

If it were true, shouldn't it have happened by now?  Has it happened?  Somehow I think I would have heard about it...

???

Yeah, the Keto gurus tried selling this idea to ultra runners, who don't make much money and don't have anything to lose by trying something new. It didn't work as Ultrarunners realized they occasionally have to run  up a hill.

One guy they trumpeted as a fat adapted athlete was Zack Bitter. I went to his blog where he posted his fueling for races.  Among other carb heavy nutritional supps, he listed Coke, Mountain Dew and Lifesavers. Now, I don't have a degree in Biochemistry, but, I'm pretty sure the caloric content of Mountain Dew is primarily carbs.
Title: Re: What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?
Post by: Disgusted on July 05, 2016, 05:07:01 PM
disgusted when you put someone on a low carb diet do you have them eat more fats for energy ? i know you have used this quite a bit with your  clients

Once you get the right amount of protein all you have left to play with is fats.