What results have you had on a ketogenic diet?

[Erik C]

any concern about atherosclerosis

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/36/15418.full

No concern about atherosclerosis at all. Look at the percentages listed in the study. Anything over 10% carbs, isn't a real low carb diet, over 30% protein isn't good, and less than 60% fat will be a problem.

I've seen studies where over 50% carbs were described as a low carb diet. That's ridiculous. At least 60% fats, never more than 30% proteins, and always less than 10% carbs, is the ideal here.

[Wiggs]

I don't know why protein needs to be so low and fats so high.  If you're juicing you're going to use that protein and it won't go to waste.  If you're natural and just trying to cut you wont need as much because the muscle sparring effect of ketosis.

[Rammstein]

From a standpoint of competing in a bodybuilding show and getting as lean as humanly possible for a limited amount of time, Keto makes sense.

The question is whether you would or could implement this diet every day for the rest of your life?

You certainly can:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/PrincipiaCarnivora/

http://zerocarbzen.com/zero-carb/ (Esmee La Fleur)

http://highsteaks.com/ (Ash Simmonds)

http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/(Kelly Williams Hogan)

http://www.empiri.ca/ (Amber Wilcox-O'Hearn)

http://www.ketotic.org/ (Amber Wilcox-O’Hearn)

[chokeslam]

Zero energy, felt terrible and lost muscle.

Would never advice this diet to anyone, ever.

Lost muscle? Really? That sounds like fatass talk to me.

The truth is that you'll lose some muscle volume - but remember, muscle is fiber and a ton of water. You can replenish that volume with ease. You're not "losing muscle". Eat some carbs, have a sippy poo of water and shut up.

Fat or skinny, you'll shrink a little... but leaner guys will not complain all that much because it just takes one good meal to pump right back up. Fat guys that lose a ton of thickness are the only ones who bicker and moan because once their "size" is gone, they're just skinny fat. Lean guys can pump right back up and look a hundred times better. Stick it out and in the long run (like, 3 or 4 fricken days) and you'll be sliced and diced.

I personally loathe keto diets. One or two days feels like an eternity. I love food and love cooking. I do however do keto dieting. I'll do a few days of keto, fat will deflate, water will leave beneath the skin and I'm in great shape. I've gone as far as a couple of weeks of TRUE keto dieting and got ripped to the bone. If I ever need to get ultra lean, I'll suck it up and just do keto. Low cals and other dietary manipulation works, but nothing beats keto. Just suck it up and cut the carbs out, take some fat burners and optimize the miserable period. If you're spending months cutting, you're way beyond fat... you're a fucking blimp or not really dieting properly.

[cephissus]

I don't know why protein needs to be so low and fats so high.  If you're juicing you're going to use that protein and it won't go to waste.  If you're natural and just trying to cut you wont need as much because the muscle sparring effect of ketosis.

according to lyle, 50%+ of your protein turns to glucose, hence the requirement to keep it low.

[Bulgarian_enforcer]

Lost muscle? Really? That sounds like fatass talk to me.

The truth is that you'll lose some muscle volume - but remember, muscle is fiber and a ton of water. You can replenish that volume with ease. You're not "losing muscle". Eat some carbs, have a sippy poo of water and shut up.

Fat or skinny, you'll shrink a little... but leaner guys will not complain all that much because it just takes one good meal to pump right back up. Fat guys that lose a ton of thickness are the only ones who bicker and moan because once their "size" is gone, they're just skinny fat. Lean guys can pump right back up and look a hundred times better. Stick it out and in the long run (like, 3 or 4 fricken days) and you'll be sliced and diced.

I personally loathe keto diets. One or two days feels like an eternity. I love food and love cooking. I do however do keto dieting. I'll do a few days of keto, fat will deflate, water will leave beneath the skin and I'm in great shape. I've gone as far as a couple of weeks of TRUE keto dieting and got ripped to the bone. If I ever need to get ultra lean, I'll suck it up and just do keto. Low cals and other dietary manipulation works, but nothing beats keto. Just suck it up and cut the carbs out, take some fat burners and optimize the miserable period. If you're spending months cutting, you're way beyond fat... you're a fucking blimp or not really dieting properly.

who the fuck are you again, speaking like some guru and shit?

[oldschoolfan]

8 weeks progress on Keto from my second show, felt like absolute death for about 10 days, almost quit my prep all together, I was a walking zombie, no power, no energy, workouts absolutely sucked, but my coach at the time kept increasing my fats until he found my sweet spot, all of a sudden boom, my body must of hit ketosis because I began to feel good, I mean real good, total focus, like I was in a zone, no crashes lots of energy, my workouts were great, progress by the day..never seen anything like it, everyday I was leaner and leaner, I had 1 refeed the entire 8 weeks. At my show I had tons of energy, felt great. I'll say it's a tough diet, most people can't stick out the transition period, it is hell, they call it the keto flu, if you can just hang in there this diet can be a thing of beauty. I had no cravings, energy was total stable

go for it were you able to do cardio while on this diet ?

[Thin Lizzy]

according to lyle, 50%+ of your protein turns to glucose, hence the requirement to keep it low.

Ketosis is a starvation response. The body would prefer to not be on it.

Ironically, that why it's works so well for contest prep, as bodybuilders essentially starve themselves to get ultra ripped.

Now, do you think Keto would be the best choice for MMA fighters, or Decathletes?

[Anglo]

8 weeks progress on Keto from my second show, felt like absolute death for about 10 days, almost quit my prep all together, I was a walking zombie, no power, no energy, workouts absolutely sucked, but my coach at the time kept increasing my fats until he found my sweet spot, all of a sudden boom, my body must of hit ketosis because I began to feel good, I mean real good, total focus, like I was in a zone, no crashes lots of energy, my workouts were great, progress by the day..never seen anything like it, everyday I was leaner and leaner, I had 1 refeed the entire 8 weeks. At my show I had tons of energy, felt great. I'll say it's a tough diet, most people can't stick out the transition period, it is hell, they call it the keto flu, if you can just hang in there this diet can be a thing of beauty. I had no cravings, energy was total stable

Post your diet so your Get Big brethren can achieve the same degree of vaginal magnetism 

[Wiggs]

Ketsosis is not a starvation response. Your body burns one of two things for fuel. carbs----> glucose or fats -------> ketones. Using fats ----------> to ketones is much better fuel source vs. glucose.  What it is, is in the West where carbs dominate and people have been brainwashed into believing that carbs are the preferred fuel source when in fact, they are not.  Your body to include your brain runs much more efficient as fats as a fuel source.  Remember 1 gm of carbs = 4 calories (energy) 1 gm of fat = 9 gms.  You get more energy out of one gm of fat vs. 1 gm of carbs.

The problem is, your average person doesn't have the willpower to get into ketosis and stay and let it do it's thing so they do it for a week and quit and say how horrible it is. It takes time for your body to change from using glucose as a fuel source to fats.

A starvation response would be if you were on no carbs and low fats.  Your body would then use protein to convert into glucose as a fuel source via gluconeogenesis.

There is no dietary need for carbohydrates.  Fats do what carbs do better (monosaturated fats preferably then saturated fats). For bodybuilding offseason, different story.  For carbing up for a show, different story.  As far as dieting, no carbs are needed (sans a refeed).  Ideally (grass fed) animal proteins with fats and organic veggies and monosaturated fats is the ideal get ripped and get healthy diet.  Keto is very good for your brain, mood, performance etc.  

[calfzilla]

Post your diet so your Get Big brethren can achieve the same degree of vaginal magnetism 

He's a good dude but is on a boatload of drugs and claims natty.

[TuHolmes]

Wiggs, how do you explain places like Japan where they are very carb dependent and always have been.

Rice and noodles and what not?

I have always been intrigued by ketones, but I find it interesting that some cultures seem to be able to do the exact opposite and as a society be relatively thin. (Compared to the typical American diet).

Chalk it up to it not being fried?

[Never1AShow]

A Pizza Hut medium supreme pizza has 290 calories per slice and 8 slices.  2320 calories.

[TuHolmes]

A Pizza Hut medium supreme pizza has 290 calories per slice and 8 slices.  2320 calories.

True, but I wouldn't eat more than a slice or two really. 3 tops. Who is eating the whole thing?

[Thin Lizzy]

Wiggs, how do you explain places like Japan where they are very carb dependent and always have been.

Rice and noodles and what not?

I have always been intrigued by ketones, but I find it interesting that some cultures seem to be able to do the exact opposite and as a society be relatively thin. (Compared to the typical American diet).

Chalk it up to it not being fried?

If the body wanted to be in Ketosis all the time, it would be your default state. It's not. You have to try real hard to get into it. The reason there is no "essential" carbohydrate is that the body can make glucose from other sources.

The reason the brain prefers glucose to fat is that the former is a faster acting energy source and often in life you have to think fast.

From a performance standpoint, Kenyans and Ethiopians have dominated distance running for the last 30 years on a high carb diet. I don't see what's stopping all the low carb gurus from training their own group of "fat adapted" super athletes to put those pesky Africans out of business.

Here's the bottom line: Fat is for low intensity activities; carbs for high. Through training you can raise the threshold of what the body sees as high intensity. This silly one versus the other debate just creates a false dichotomy where none really exists.

[Go 4 It]

go for it were you able to do cardio while on this diet ?

yes varied from 45 min to up to 90 min a day depending on the day, off days I would do 90, 45min in am and 45min in the evening of swimming.

Post your diet so your Get Big brethren can achieve the same degree of vaginal magnetism 

It was:
1: 6 omega 3 eggs, with spinach omelet
2: 6 oz grass fed beef, broccoli
3: 6 oz chicken, spinach salad with mac nut oil, handful of almonds
4: 6 oz grass fed beef, asparagus, sprinkle  olive oil on aspargus
5: whey isolate, with almond butter
6: either 6 oz salmon or grass fed beef and spinach

[Anglo]

yes varied from 45 min to up to 90 min a day depending on the day, off days I would do 90, 45min in am and 45min in the evening of swimming.It was:
1: 6 omega 3 eggs, with spinach omelet
2: 6 oz grass fed beef, broccoli
3: 6 oz chicken, spinach salad with mac nut oil, handful of almonds
4: 6 oz grass fed beef, asparagus, sprinkle  olive oil on aspargus
5: whey isolate, with almond butter
6: either 6 oz salmon or grass fed beef and spinach

Thanks, have you any intention eat carbs in the future?

[Go 4 It]

Thanks, have you any intention eat carbs in the future?

yes I'm eating carbs now, that was my contest diet at the time

[chokeslam]

who the fuck are you again, speaking like some guru and shit?

Doesn't take a guru to spot a stupid statement.

When someone says that a diet, training or anything made them "lose muscle" it should raise suspicion. You don't just lose muscle the way the parroting, literature internet bodybuilders says.

People seem to think if you miss the anabolic window or don't stoke the metabolic furnace that they'll go catabolic and die. Their evidence is just empiracle fatceps deflation. Lord help them.

[Disgusted]

If you are following a low to zero carb diet and you are losing muscle and have no energy you are doing it wrong.

[efirkey]

Wiggs, how do you explain places like Japan where they are very carb dependent and always have been.

Rice and noodles and what not?

I have always been intrigued by ketones, but I find it interesting that some cultures seem to be able to do the exact opposite and as a society be relatively thin. (Compared to the typical American diet).

Chalk it up to it not being fried?

Japan's diet is very glucose heavy.  It is the fructose (sugar - half fructose) which is not in their diet that is making everyone fat.

[TuHolmes]

Japan's diet is very glucose heavy.  It is the fructose (sugar - half fructose) which is not in their diet that is making everyone fat.

Seems plausible. Thanks for the input. Seriously.

[efirkey]

It should also be noted that as Japan's people are eating a more westernized diet.  They to are starting to have all the same problems, obesity, heart disease, and diabetes, that the rest of the world is experiencing.

[TuHolmes]

It should also be noted that as Japan's people are eating a more westernized diet.  They to are starting to have all the same problems, obesity, heart disease, and diabetes, that the rest of the world is experiencing.

Yeah. They had it righ . Now look at them.

[cephissus]

Ketsosis is not a starvation response. Your body burns one of two things for fuel. carbs----> glucose or fats -------> ketones.

False.  For example, many cells can run directly on fatty acids while in ketosis.  Some tissues can use ketones, some FFA, some glucose, many some combination of the three.

Using fats ----------> to ketones is much better fuel source vs. glucose.

Why?

What it is, is in the West where carbs dominate and people have been brainwashed into believing that carbs are the preferred fuel source when in fact, they are not.  Your body to include your brain runs much more efficient as fats as a fuel source.  Remember 1 gm of carbs = 4 calories (energy) 1 gm of fat = 9 gms.  You get more energy out of one gm of fat vs. 1 gm of carbs.

What does this have to do with "efficiency"?  Also, anyone can easily meet their energy needs by eating the same amount of calories from carbohydrate as fat, so how is this point significant whatsoever?

The problem is, your average person doesn't have the willpower to get into ketosis and stay and let it do it's thing so they do it for a week and quit and say how horrible it is. It takes time for your body to change from using glucose as a fuel source to fats.

Possibly, but what about people who have tried Ketosis for more prolonged periods and still reported ill-feelings?  Thongwarrior, for example, tried a ketogenic diet for at least a month, if I'm not mistaken?

That said, I've heard varying stories about the "keto adaptation" period, with some saying it takes more time (e.g. 3-6) months.  I've even heard "years", but mostly from random youtube gurus, so I don't take those claims too seriously.

There is no dietary need for carbohydrates.  Fats do what carbs do better (monosaturated fats preferably then saturated fats).

There's no dietary need for much of anything.  You can live for quite a long time, just scraping by in a state of starved lunacy... I would know.  While carbohydrates may not be "necessary", a diet which includes them certainly has a different effect on the body, and who's to say it's worse?

Well, Wiggs, for one.  Again you claim fats are a "better" energy source than carbohydrate.  Why?  What about the lower power output, changes in brain chemistry, etc.?  Are these all for the better?

For bodybuilding offseason, different story.  For carbing up for a show, different story.  As far as dieting, no carbs are needed (sans a refeed).  Ideally (grass fed) animal proteins with fats and organic veggies and monosaturated fats is the ideal get ripped and get healthy diet.  Keto is very good for your brain, mood, performance etc.  

What kind of "performance"?  Are you just talking about dieting, or staying in ketosis long term?  And most importantly, are you speaking from experience?