Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on April 22, 2017, 07:33:04 PM
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How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.
All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate. Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".
Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?
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How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.
All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate. Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".
Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?
::)
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I don't think it's just the judges. I think it's what the industry has demanded. Bigger stronger faster. People get tired of the same thing year in and year out. Sure we all know bodybuilding peaked in the 1990s. It's gone to compete shit since, just like music and movies.
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Because it's legitimately the only way to have yearly "progress".
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Because it's legitimately the only way to have yearly "progress".
Size is not always improvement. It's often detrimental these days after a certain point.
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Size is not always improvement. It's often detrimental these days after a certain point.
Yes, but what other direction can the "sport" take at the highest level?
Physiques already looked great in the 80s. Only way to push limits is to make them bigger, freakier, and worsebetter
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How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.
All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate. Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".
Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?
Good post Wiggs.
Bigger is not always Better.
It appears the correct judging criteria for some (A Lot ) of judges is completely lost on them.
As for all the additional nonsense classes - yes it's all about the $.
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I don't think it's just the judges. I think it's what the industry has demanded. Bigger stronger faster. People get tired of the same thing year in and year out. Sure we all know bodybuilding peaked in the 1990s. It's gone to compete shit since, just like music and movies.
Faster?
You sure about that?
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How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.
All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate. Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".
Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?
Well maybe if flex didn't hide in the short mr O and actualy did open shows we'll never know... One things for sure they would need 90's conditioning to stand a chance...
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Well maybe if flex didn't hide in the short mr O and actualy did open shows we'll never know... One things for sure they would need 90's conditioning to stand a chance...
To give him his due - James has been wanting to do the open class for 2/3 yrs now.
Lets just say he was told by a couple of Top IFBB men if he did they couldn't guarantee
he would be judged fairly / properly ::)
and he best stay at 212.
He was / is to good to lose out of the 212 class by their reckoning.
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Labrada and Ray
bodybuilding never 'improved' beyond those dudes
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bodybuilding never 'improved' beyond those dudes
Francis Benefetto hit bb perfection 8)
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WIGGS, As you know ... I was actively involved throughout most of the bodybuilding years and have to say that there are a lot of accurate comments made by some of the above GetBiggers.
"ACCURATE" .... meaning that I do agree with some of the above comments.
From my viewpoint there was no one, single individual who made competitive bodybuilding different today than what it was 'yesterday'.
BUT ... it definitely did change within the days of YATES and will most likely continue into infinity.
I don't think we've come to the end of seeing 'mass monsters' (respectfully stated) dominating that Olympa stage.
But with change ... comes change ..... such as the 'dreaded' Classic competitors which many pros assume to be a 'detriment'.
We are witnessing bodybuilding history in which 'wars' are won on both sides with no treaty offered nor accepted.
And it's interesting to see once again that history definitely repeats itself. It's like going back in time without leaving nor sacrificing the present.
And no single individual is in the driver's seat nor controls the plans for tomorrow but he has a good chance of being pretty damn accurate if he examines how 'things' used to be.
(How ya been, WIGGS?)
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Faster?
You sure about that?
Ha, no I did not mean faster with regards to bodybuilders. Just a saying, most sports spectators want to see bigger, faster, stronger than the previous year.
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Follow the semen stains.
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To give him his due - James has been wanting to do the open class for 2/3 yrs now.
Lets just say he was told by a couple of Top IFBB men if he did they couldn't guarantee
he would be judged fairly / properly ::)
and he best stay at 212.
He was / is to good to lose out of the 212 class by their reckoning.
There's nowt stopping him doing a few open shows outside the jnr mr O tho
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How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.
All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate. Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".
Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?
I guess cause they now have classic and physique categories
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How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.
All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate. Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".
Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?
Because back then few guys were over 240.. Everybody else was sub 220/210 so 185 vs 210 isnt like 212/225 vs 250/265
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Fans want to see the freaks... And a 5'3" guy is never gonna be as marketable or appealing as a guy whos 5'9"-6', no matter if the short guy packs an extra 2lbs per square inch on his frame with 1% less bf. They'll always be "the little guy", and people cant get behind "the little guy". Look how it worked out for dexter. Looks great by himself, but dwarfer next to rhoden, even though dex is better
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Fans want to see the freaks... And a 5'3" guy is never gonna be as marketable or appealing as a guy whos 5'9"-6', no matter if the short guy packs an extra 2lbs per square inch on his frame with 1% less bf. They'll always be "the little guy", and people cant get behind "the little guy". Look how it worked out for dexter. Looks great by himself, but dwarfer next to rhoden, even though dex is better
Dex was Mr Olympia, Rhoden will never be.
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Bodybuilding was about physical perfection. It hasn't been about that since Haney retired. I don't know what it's about anymore. To a degree, I'm glad that Heath is Mr. O because he isn't on the side of grotesque.
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Flex in 92/93 wasnt physical perfection?
Or cormier 99? Ronnie 98? Ronnie 03? Ronnie 01? Flex 98? Flex 99? Levrone 97? Dexter 08? Dillett 93? dorian 95?
You compete against your peers onstage. Not against an "ideal".. Its not a dog show whete theyre judged against preset physical criteria
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WIGGS, As you know ... I was actively involved throughout most of the bodybuilding years and have to say that there are a lot of accurate comments made by some of the above GetBiggers.
"ACCURATE" .... meaning that I do agree with some of the above comments.
From my viewpoint there was no one, single individual who made competitive bodybuilding different today than what it was 'yesterday'.
BUT ... it definitely did change within the days of YATES and will most likely continue into infinity.
I don't think we've come to the end of seeing 'mass monsters' (respectfully stated) dominating that Olympa stage.
But with change ... comes change ..... such as the 'dreaded' Classic competitors which many pros assume to be a 'detriment'.
We are witnessing bodybuilding history in which 'wars' are won on both sides with no treaty offered nor accepted.
And it's interesting to see once again that history definitely repeats itself. It's like going back in time without leaving nor sacrificing the present.
And no single individual is in the driver's seat nor controls the plans for tomorrow but he has a good chance of being pretty damn accurate if he examines how 'things' used to be.
(How ya been, WIGGS?)
Stunt! What's up ma' man. I went to Jays show last weekend, just the prejudging. It was a yawn fest outside of 1 bodybuilder. All classic physique guys were "blah" there were a couple of women in their classes and I left before men's physique came it out. It was too long and I was bored by then.
Back to the post, I have to agree with Howard in there had to be a directive from someone or some people that changed the standards because it was fast and dramatic.
To others, if fans wanted to alway see freaks why are these same fans always complaining about guts, synthol, pros looking better better 20 lbs lighter. People don't want to just see freaks. They want to see physical perfection.
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Flex in 92/93 wasnt physical perfection?
Or cormier 99? Ronnie 98? Ronnie 03? Ronnie 01? Flex 98? Flex 99? Levrone 97? Dexter 08? Dillett 93? dorian 95?
You compete against your peers onstage. Not against an "ideal".. Its not a dog show whete theyre judged against preset physical criteria
Yes and Flex should have beaten Dorian in 93. Had he, the direction of bodybuilding would changed what we see today. Cormier in 99 yes. Ronnie in 03 hell no. Dillet or Dorian, no. Flex in 93 embodied physical perfection much more than Dorian in 93. That's not even debatable. Dorian had size we had not seen before and shredded That's why he won. Not because he was better.
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This goes to an argument I believe and even heard Palumbo and Aceto talk about. The best body doesn't always win. There are physiques that win shows and theres the best body. They are not inclusive. Flex, better body, Dorian wins shows. Shawn Ray better body, Dexter wins shows. Flex better body, Ronnie wins shows.
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Bodybuildimgnis a combination of size, condition, shape, and presentation. Flex was an illusion. He showed hisnphysique the best and hid his flaws. He was narrow and his shoulders roll forward and he's really thin front to back. He drew attention to the center of his back which distracted from how narrow he was... And his arms did the same. He may have the best arms in the sport but not the rest
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Bodybuildimgnis a combination of size, condition, shape, and presentation. Flex was an illusion. He showed hisnphysique the best and hid his flaws. He was narrow and his shoulders roll forward and he's really thin front to back. He drew attention to the center of his back which distracted from how narrow he was... And his arms did the same. He may have the best arms in the sport but not the erst
Actually, one aspect of bodybuilding has always been about illusion. Hiding your weaknesses. Pick up a number of magazines from the 90s. It was drilled into our heads. Flex in general is not narrow. Compared to Jay, yes. If that's the best you have, that's not really much of an argument. I could rip into Dorian's physique 100 different ways but it's already been done. Flex was closer to physical perfection than Dorian ever was. Hell, Dorian even said if Flex had his mindset he'd be unbeatable. Shawn Ray said Flex when conditioned was Mr. O. Ronnie looked up to Flex before he came Ronnie.
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WIGGS/HOWARD, Sometimes I think I know everything only to find out I actually don't. (But never argue with me when it comes to Quantum Mechanics!)
i had to think to myself out loud after reading Howard's statement and Howard is always truthful even when it comes to self-harm so it's impossible for me to disagree with him and assume that he is correct about the NPC's decision to 'vote for' the bigger guy in that lineup.
Bur as ESFIT pointed out .... a bodybuilding contest is/was simply a matter of comparison and he who "compared the best" would be the winner.
But that 'bigger recommendation' sorta threw the monkey wench into the bodybuilding 'battle' and somewhat slowly changed the way that things used to be ... and will continue to be until, and if, it dies a slow death on its own or with the help of numerous anti-fans such as those here on this GetBig Board.
It looks like I intend to agree with Eric so far.
WIGGS, Today's BB contest are no longer intended to be four hour events for those who put their asses in the seats.
But those 4 hour shows could return some day after the contenders get tired of spending twice that amount of time to get on stage and do a 60 second routine.
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flex 93 is the most overrated non mr olympia body ever
a couple pics of his back looking hard and shredded and everybody acts like it was the best ever, he was better in the late 90's
labrada, ray and momo never should've placed as high as they did
great big guy should be great small guy 100 out of 100 times
E
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Actually, one aspect of bodybuilding has always been about illusion. Hiding your weaknesses. Pick up a number of magazines from the 90s. It was drilled into our heads. Flex in general is not narrow. Compared to Jay, yes. If that's the best you have, that's not really much of an argument. I could rip into Dorian's physique 100 different ways but it's already been done. Flex was closer to physical perfection than Dorian ever was. Hell, Dorian even said if Flex had his mindset he'd be unbeatable. Shawn Ray said Flex when conditioned was Mr. O. Ronnie looked up to Flex before he came Ronnie.
Flex is narrow and his shoulders roll forward. Only when theyre site injected does he appear wide. Look at his lat spreads and when his arms go overhead, his shoulders are nearly as wide as his hips.
Nobody on a pro stage has ever thought to themselves "i dont want to get any bigger or freakier".. Nobody. Everybody's goal now as well as 40yrs ago, has been to be as big and lean as possible.
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Nobody on a pro stage has ever thought to themselves "i dont want to get any bigger or freakier".. Nobody. Everybody's goal now as well as 40yrs ago, has been to be as big and lean as possible.
How is that working out today? Lots of big freaky competitors, but not too many tight waists or good proportions.
The freakshow isn't good. Late 80s to early 90s was the best era (After gaspari ushered in a new era of conditioning and before Dorian)
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The mind(s) of whover is running or giving direction of how physiques should look is/are severely warped.
He/they don't give a shit about these bodybuilders health or well being. The risk has so far surpassed the rewards. The best thing would be that the Manions and Weinbergers were not there anymore. Everyone's always afraid to say their names or place the blame because the Mafia way they run things. It is what it is. Obviously they'd need to be replaced with people that have sense. All a dream I know but I'm just putting out what I feel and what some think. They are the bosses of this mess.
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Its a business. Its never been about health or well being. Its about ticket sales. Nobody wants to gobtoba pro show and see team universe physique. The ifbb pro stages are where ifbb pros compete with ifbb pros. If somebody doesn't like the physiques, there's always regional npc or natural/team universe shows and competitors to follow.
If somebody doesn't like the way NASCAR bodys look, they can always watch SCCA touring car championships instead... NASCAR isn't gonna change.
If somebody doesn't like powerlifting meets with guys in full gear benching 1095lbs, they can always chose to follow raw drug tested meets instead.
You can't stop progress.
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I wouldn't even class any of the modern guys as mass monsters in the mould of fux, Nasser, yates, dillet..I cant think of any that compare?
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everyone keeps saying the mass monsters are getting bigger, the only thing that's adding the extra weight is their waistlines.
the muscles are no bigger these days than they were in the 90s
guys who now weigh 240lb are the 210/215 guys with a bloated waist
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Follow the semen stains.
HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA!
Man,, that was funny!!!
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What Wiggs said about Manion and his henchmen. They are there until they no longer want to be.
So, who looks better than this dude did way back in 1947?
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What Wiggs said about Manion and his hencemen. They are there until they no longer want to be.
So, who looks better than this dude did way back in 1947?
Likely No 1 genetic for bodybuilding of all time.
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Almost everybody now has a back that would rival Momo's or Haney's and quads to match. Thats were the extra weight is. You cant fit 30lbs in your midsection. More muscle = more glycogen = intramuscular water. A gram of glycogen will pull with it 10grams of water More water = more lbs on the scale.
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Who is responsible?
I'll get in trouble for this, but it was two guys, one named Dan, and the other was Fred.
Find them, and you can fix this travesty.
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Almost everybody now has a back that would rival Momo's or Haney's and quads to match. Thats were the extra weight is. You cant fit 30lbs in your midsection. More muscle = more glycogen = intramuscular water. A gram of glycogen will pull with it 10grams of water More water = more lbs on the scale.
Yes the extra weight is in the legs, but you can fit those 30lbs in the waistline. Who today can even try to do a vaccum pose?
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everyone keeps saying the mass monsters are getting bigger, the only thing that's adding the extra weight is their waistlines.
the muscles are no bigger these days than they were in the 90s
guys who now weigh 240lb are the 210/215 guys with a bloated waist
well said - often overlooked or not mentioned.
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Yes the extra weight is in the legs, but you can fit those 30lbs in the waistline. Who today can even try to do a vaccum pose?
Youre even more clueless than i thought. Blazing obvious you understand nothing about training, anatomy, physiology, and everything else and you're only here to troll. Go take 30 1lb steaks and wrap about 15 or 20 around your stomach, the other 10-15 imagine being inside your midsection and you come back and tellnusnall if those 30lbs will fit... Be sure to subtract a few inches off your fat gut to imagine you're actually in shape.
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Youre even more clueless than i thought. Blazing obvious you understand nothing about training, anatomy, physiology, and everything else and you're only here to troll. Go take 30 1lb steaks and wrap about 15 or 20 around your stomach, the other 10-15 imagine being inside your midsection and you come back and tellnusnall if those 30lbs will fit... Be sure to subtract a few inches off your fat gut to imagine you're actually in shape.
said the guy who knows fuck all about anything
my neighbour has zero muscle tissue and has a beer belly, hes the same height as me and weighs 30lb heavier on a similar bone structure.
Now, you go and wrap 30lb of beef around your entire body, its the only way you will ever add any muscle tissue.
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said the guy who knows fuck all about anything
my neighbour has zero muscle tissue and has a beer belly, hes the same height as me and weighs 30lb heavier on a similar bone structure.
Now, you go and wrap 30lb of beef around your entire body, its the only way you will ever add any muscle tissue.
I know fuck all about anything? Lol.. We can compare resumes poser... Or we can just look back throu Gh post histories.. Who gives informed answers? Who's contributes nothing but trolling daily.
Continue your obsession with me scarecrow
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I know fuck all about anything? Lol.. We can compare resumes poser... Or we can just look back throu Gh post histories.. Who gives informed answers? Who's contributes nothing but trolling daily.
Continue your obsession with me scarecrow
lets compare photos....
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The best "looking" physique should prevail regardless of height or bodyweight.
This has truly fucked up "the sport" of bodybuilding.
A monstrosity like Branch Warren should never place top 5 these days nevermind taking overall trophies. :(