Who were the judges or officials responsible for the change in standards?

[Wiggs]

How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.


All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate.  Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".

Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?

[Fred Zeppelin]

How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.


All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate.  Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".

Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?

[Eric2]

I don't think it's just the judges. I think it's what the industry has demanded. Bigger stronger faster. People get tired of the same thing year in and year out. Sure we all know bodybuilding peaked in the 1990s. It's gone to compete shit since, just like music and movies.

[Top Poodle]

Because it's legitimately the only way to have yearly "progress".

[Wiggs]

Because it's legitimately the only way to have yearly "progress".

Size is not always improvement. It's often detrimental these days after a certain point.

[Top Poodle]

Size is not always improvement. It's often detrimental these days after a certain point.

Yes, but what other direction can the "sport" take at the highest level?

Physiques already looked great in the 80s.  Only way to push limits is to make them bigger, freakier, and worsebetter

[illuminati]

How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.


All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate.  Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".

Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?

Good post Wiggs.
Bigger is not always Better.
It appears the correct judging criteria for some (A Lot ) of judges is completely lost on them.

As for all the additional nonsense classes - yes it's all about the $.

[Simple Simon]

I don't think it's just the judges. I think it's what the industry has demanded. Bigger stronger faster. People get tired of the same thing year in and year out. Sure we all know bodybuilding peaked in the 1990s. It's gone to compete shit since, just like music and movies.

Faster?
You sure about that?

[local hero]

How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.


All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate.  Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".

Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?

Well maybe if flex didn't hide in the short mr O and actualy did open shows we'll never know... One things for sure they would need 90's conditioning to stand a chance...

[illuminati]

Well maybe if flex didn't hide in the short mr O and actualy did open shows we'll never know... One things for sure they would need 90's conditioning to stand a chance...

To give him his due - James has been wanting to do the open class for 2/3 yrs now.

Lets just say he was told by a couple of Top IFBB men if he did they couldn't guarantee
he would be judged fairly / properly 
and he best stay at 212.

He was / is to good to lose out of the 212 class by their reckoning.

[Zillotch]

Labrada and Ray

bodybuilding never 'improved' beyond those dudes

[dj181]

bodybuilding never 'improved' beyond those dudes

Francis Benefetto hit bb perfection 

[stuntmovie]

WIGGS, As you know ... I was actively involved throughout most of the bodybuilding years and have to say that there are a lot of accurate comments made by some of the above GetBiggers.

"ACCURATE" .... meaning that I do agree with some of the above comments.

From my viewpoint there was no one, single individual who made competitive bodybuilding different today than what it was 'yesterday'.

BUT ...  it definitely did change within the days of  YATES and will most likely continue into infinity.

I don't think we've come to the end of seeing 'mass monsters' (respectfully stated) dominating that Olympa stage.

But with change ... comes change ..... such as the  'dreaded' Classic competitors which many pros assume to be a 'detriment'.

We are witnessing bodybuilding history in which 'wars' are won on both sides with no treaty offered nor accepted.

And it's interesting to see once again that history definitely repeats itself. It's like going back in time without leaving nor sacrificing the present.

And no single individual is in the driver's seat nor controls the plans for tomorrow but he has a good chance of being pretty damn accurate if he examines how 'things' used to be.

(How ya been, WIGGS?)

[Eric2]

Faster?
You sure about that?

Ha, no I did not mean faster with regards to bodybuilders. Just a saying, most sports spectators want to see bigger, faster, stronger than the previous year.

[Slapper]

Follow the semen stains.

[local hero]

To give him his due - James has been wanting to do the open class for 2/3 yrs now.

Lets just say he was told by a couple of Top IFBB men if he did they couldn't guarantee
he would be judged fairly / properly 
and he best stay at 212.

He was / is to good to lose out of the 212 class by their reckoning.

There's nowt stopping him doing a few open shows outside the jnr mr O tho

[FREAKgeek]

How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.


All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate.  Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".

Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?

I guess cause they now have classic and physique categories

[ESFitness]

How did guys like Beniziza, Labrada, and Ray place top 3 in big shows then, but now a 212 competitor even the best one in Flex Lewis or Dave Henry wouldn't be able to make top 6 at the O? What happened? Beniziza beat Dorian (although he wasn't The Dorian we know) but he still beat a guy that outweighed him by at least 50lbs. Labrada and Ray routinely beat larger guys by outclassing them with their lines and everything else but size.


All this stopped around when Dorian begin to dominate.  Now it seems unthinkable to let a Flex Lewis or David Henry beat guys they're clearly better than because "theyre too small".

Now the IFBB can cash in having these multiple classes. Total scam. That shift in judging the smaller guys was a major contributor to the garbage we see before us. Who is responsible?

Because back then few guys were over 240.. Everybody else was sub 220/210 so 185 vs 210 isnt like 212/225 vs 250/265

[ESFitness]

Fans want to see the freaks... And a 5'3" guy is never gonna be as marketable or appealing as a guy whos 5'9"-6', no matter if the short guy packs an extra 2lbs per square inch on his frame with 1% less bf. They'll always be "the little guy", and people cant get behind "the little guy". Look how it worked out for dexter. Looks great by himself, but dwarfer next to rhoden, even though dex is better

[Simple Simon]

Fans want to see the freaks... And a 5'3" guy is never gonna be as marketable or appealing as a guy whos 5'9"-6', no matter if the short guy packs an extra 2lbs per square inch on his frame with 1% less bf. They'll always be "the little guy", and people cant get behind "the little guy". Look how it worked out for dexter. Looks great by himself, but dwarfer next to rhoden, even though dex is better

Dex was Mr Olympia, Rhoden will never be.

[Wiggs]

Bodybuilding was about physical perfection. It hasn't been about that since Haney retired. I don't know what it's about anymore. To a degree, I'm glad that Heath is Mr. O because he isn't on the side of grotesque.

[ESFitness]

Flex in 92/93 wasnt physical perfection?

Or cormier 99? Ronnie 98? Ronnie 03? Ronnie 01? Flex 98? Flex 99? Levrone 97? Dexter 08? Dillett 93? dorian 95?

You compete against your peers onstage. Not against an "ideal".. Its not a dog show whete theyre judged against preset physical criteria

[Wiggs]

WIGGS, As you know ... I was actively involved throughout most of the bodybuilding years and have to say that there are a lot of accurate comments made by some of the above GetBiggers.

"ACCURATE" .... meaning that I do agree with some of the above comments.

From my viewpoint there was no one, single individual who made competitive bodybuilding different today than what it was 'yesterday'.

BUT ...  it definitely did change within the days of  YATES and will most likely continue into infinity.

I don't think we've come to the end of seeing 'mass monsters' (respectfully stated) dominating that Olympa stage.

But with change ... comes change ..... such as the  'dreaded' Classic competitors which many pros assume to be a 'detriment'.

We are witnessing bodybuilding history in which 'wars' are won on both sides with no treaty offered nor accepted.

And it's interesting to see once again that history definitely repeats itself. It's like going back in time without leaving nor sacrificing the present.

And no single individual is in the driver's seat nor controls the plans for tomorrow but he has a good chance of being pretty damn accurate if he examines how 'things' used to be.

(How ya been, WIGGS?)

Stunt! What's up ma' man. I went to Jays show last weekend, just the prejudging. It was a yawn fest outside of 1 bodybuilder. All classic physique guys were "blah" there were a couple of women in their classes and I left before men's physique came it out. It was too long and I was bored by then.

Back to the post, I have to agree with Howard in there had to be a directive from someone or some people  that changed the standards because it was fast and dramatic.

To others,  if fans wanted to alway see freaks why are these same fans always complaining about  guts, synthol, pros looking better better 20 lbs lighter. People don't want to just see freaks. They want to see physical perfection.

[Wiggs]

Flex in 92/93 wasnt physical perfection?

Or cormier 99? Ronnie 98? Ronnie 03? Ronnie 01? Flex 98? Flex 99? Levrone 97? Dexter 08? Dillett 93? dorian 95?

You compete against your peers onstage. Not against an "ideal".. Its not a dog show whete theyre judged against preset physical criteria

Yes and Flex should have beaten Dorian in 93. Had he, the direction of bodybuilding would changed what we see today.  Cormier in 99 yes. Ronnie in 03 hell no. Dillet or Dorian, no. Flex in 93 embodied physical perfection much more than Dorian in 93. That's not even debatable. Dorian had size we had not seen before and shredded That's why he won. Not because he was better.

[Wiggs]

This goes to an argument I believe and even heard Palumbo and Aceto talk about. The best body doesn't always win. There are physiques that win shows and theres the best body. They are not inclusive. Flex, better body, Dorian wins shows. Shawn Ray better body, Dexter wins shows. Flex better body, Ronnie wins shows.