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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: chess315 on October 16, 2017, 12:39:13 PM
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Sergio sr is my pic he still drawfs jr
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Sergio sr is my pic he still drawfs jr
Sergio Sr. has better structure than his son. Same thing with Jon Loyd and his son Bostin--the genetics got a little diluted when they were passed down to the next generation.
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contest condition JR
Everything else SR.
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Sergio senior. I think its a muscle contest after all.
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Sr.. Not even close.
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contest condition JR
Everything else SR.
I agree................Goo d to see ya` back Chess! :)
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contest condition JR
Everything else SR.
This^^^^^^^^^^^^
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current judging standards, next Mr O....they tie for last.
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current judging standards, next Mr O....they tie for last.
WELCOME TO THE THUNDERDOME............. ........................ ....FUCKFACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111
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humbled
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WELCOME TO THE THUNDERDOME............. ........................ ....FUCKFACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111
pretty pretty pretty disappointed,..........I didnt get this
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If you think jr is better, you're essentially saying he's Schwarzenegger tier, better than over half of all the Mr olympias. Now think just how asinine your question is.
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Sergio sr is my pic he still drawfs jr
Pics or it doesn't exist.
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Sergio in his prime was something to see. Of course, the condition requirements were not as strict 40 years ago (no one was judging ripped glutes). But Sergio Sr. had such freaky proportions that you had to see it in person to appreciate it.
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What were their respective contest weights?
Junior would beat senior under current standards simply due to conditioning. Senior may look bigger in pics but in a direct comparison I think it would be the other way around. Remember the pool stick pic of senior? He was a tiny tit... when I first saw it as a kid I thought he was monstrous.
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Sergio at the 1972 Olympia in Essen, Germany, where he placed 2nd to Arnold. Nobody looked like this before or since. Unreal.
(https://11m0wk2tta413cnmt92u7qx7-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Sergio-Oliva-in-1984-min.png)
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Sergio in his prime was something to see. Of course, the condition requirements were not as strict 40 years ago (no one was judging ripped glutes). But Sergio Sr. had such freaky proportions that you had to see it in person to appreciate it.
so you saw in person?
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Sergio Sr. has better structure than his son. Same thing with Jon Loyd and his son Bostin--the genetics got a little diluted when they were passed down to the next generation.
Agreed. Product of being 50% their mother.
What were their respective contest weights?
Junior would beat senior under current standards simply due to conditioning. Senior may look bigger in pics but in a direct comparison I think it would be the other way around. Remember the pool stick pic of senior? He was a tiny tit... when I first saw it as a kid I thought he was monstrous.
Haha, great post. I was going to quote illuminati's post, but yours is more detailed. Exactly correct - Sergio Jr. would win in a 2017, due to superiority of conditioning, no question about it. I don't think people quite realize how off bodybuilders 40 years ago were compared to those of today. If Arnold from the 1975 Mr. Universe showed up today, he would place last at the Mr. Olympia, unless someone came in considerably off, or unless they gave an invite to another Master's competitor or something like that. Sure, some of his individual body parts would be the best - although honestly, the only part I muscle group I could think of for Arnold would be chest - but he would still place last.
I think Arnold at his best would likely be able to turn pro today - as I do believe he could beat, say, Chris Bumstead he turned pro by winning the North Americans, but Arnold would not place well at the Mr. Olympia today.
Likewise for Sergio Sr. - the question asked wasn't which one had better potential, it was who would win, both in their prime? The answer to THAT question is Sergio Jr., obviously - the disparity in conditioning would be the nail in the coffin for Sergio Sr.
That being said, I heard somewhere - possibly even from Sergio Jr. in an interview - that Sergio Sr. would often eat pizza and donuts leading up to a contest. Meaning that he didn't know how to properly diet, and if he did have solely access to a modern bodybuilding contest diet - not even the drugs, just the diet plan - he would likely be able to match or surpass the conditioning of Sergio Jr. and beat him. The fact that Sergio Sr. got into the conditioning he did while still eating junk leading right up to the contest speaks volumes for his genetics, and no doubt, cutting some of those items out [assuming it wouldn't mentally stop him from competing due to feelings of scarcity] would likely vault him ahead in the placings, and under such a modern diet protocol, I do think he could match his son on conditioning, and beat him in a 2017 contest.
Let's be clear about one thing - modern drugs help the most for gaining size. Bodybuilders started growing bigger than ever when Dorian started taking home his Sandows. Prior to that, the top conditioning we have ever seen had already been achieved - Rich Gaspari being an example of that. So modern drugs have produced far bigger bodybuilders, but not necessarily far more conditioned bodybuilders. Put another way, the advantage of modern drugs is more in terms of size than in terms of conditioning. Bodybuilders have been ripped for a long time. Yes, things have been brought to a new level with modern drugs, but not as drastically as the increases in size, IMO.
So I do think Sergio Sr., with a cleaner diet, could have had the conditioning necessary to beat Sergio Jr. today. But in their respective *actual* iterations, I would have to give it to Sergio Jr., based on conditioning. Also, Sergio Sr. was 5'9 or 5'10, whereas Sergio Jr. is 6'0 with bigger legs. Put them next to one another and, yes, Sergio Jr. would be bigger than his father. Sergio Sr. could still win as the smaller bodybuilder assuming equal or better conditioning - think Phil Heath vs. Big Ramy, where Phil wins, largely on the strength of his conditioning - but since Sergio Sr. never achieved that conditioning, we have to compare the two based on what Sergio Sr. actually brought to the table - and on the strength of that physique, Junior beats Senior - not to say that Senior wasn't amazing, because he definitely was.
The question asked wasn't "Which Sergio has the better structure?", in which case, I think the answer is obvious - Sergio Sr. Also the same answer as the question "Who has the better potential in bodybuilding?" But we need to compare the two Sergios for what they actually are/were, not what we think they/Sergio Sr. could have been.
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Most people don't even try the victory pose so the kid is pretty good. No way have the same waist but he got the arms.
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Sergio Sr was incredible for ANY GENERATION. Your question is a moot point that’s like asking if a Prime 1935-1936 Jesse Owens could beat a Prime 1983-1984 Carl Lewis.
The facts are on a EVEN PLAYING FIELD, same nutrition same drugs or none @ all, same training systems, same shoes etc a 1983-1984 Carl Lewis under those conditions would not of run 9.92 or less @ the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin.
a 2017 Pro NY Sergio Jr under the same Conditions his father and Arnold had @ the 1972 Mr Olympia, same training, nutrition, same drugs, etc...do you think he could of beaten Sergio snr?
Below is more than likely Sergio seniors best condition (give or take) in Japan 1972...feathered delts in 1972...who else had that type of conditioning back in the early 70s... when in shape Sergio was ahead of his time just like Arnold was, under the same timeframe, same conditions, and era imo Sergio Jr would never have beaten his father or Arnold.
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Sergio Sr. was a freak of nature. Easily 20 yrs ahead of his time.
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johnny1 - great post. Thanks for posting that picture. I knew that Sergio had gotten into very good condition before, but I never knew that he had delts that feathered before.
I agree with your assessment regarding genetics. I think it's even possible that Sergio Sr. had better genetics than Ronnie Coleman. That's saying a lot of course, but I don't see why Sergio Sr. couldn't have put on 30-lb of muscle combined with superior conditioning with access to newer drugs and a better diet plan - perhaps with the help of a coach doing the thinking for him, just as his son has Chris Aceto for that.
Speaking of that - in order to be a diet coach in the bodybuilding industry, do you just sort of go after the big names and offer to help them, and then free-ride off the success of their work ethic? So for example, start with someone at the Nationals level, then as your name grows, attract better and better competitors, and just give them cookie cutter diets, all the while building your own reputation?
...or are Chris Aceto and others like him as good as they say?
In any case, I think that Sergio Sr., with a diet coach, and adherence to said diet, would be able to do EXTREMELY well.
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I saw Sergio Sr. Guest pose in 85, way past his prime. Had to be seen to believed. It's unimaginable what he would look like with current drugs and diet.
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so you saw in person?
Yes, the very first contest I went to see, the 1976 AAU Mr. Tri-State in Chicago, Sergio was the guest poser. He was a little smooth but his freaky proportions were crazy. Tiny waist and monster arms.
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Yes, the very first contest I went to see, the 1976 AAU Mr. Tri-State in Chicago, Sergio was the guest poser. He was a little smooth but his freaky proportions were crazy. Tiny waist and monster arms.
Would have loved to have seen him then. Sergio undoubtedly had the best genetics for bodybuilding ever.
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It's very hard to compare different generations. Another big difference between the '70's and today is the judging standards. Before Frank Zane started winning the Mr. Olympia, the judges would reward physiques that had good shape and proportions over extreme definition (like Sergio and Jim Haislop). Today, it's the opposite. I've seen many local shows where the winner has very weak bodyparts like calves or arms and might have the distended gut but as long as they are the hardest one onstage and they have ripped glutes, they will most likely win the contest over another competitor who is bigger, has better balance and proportion and is still in shape but not ultra hard and grainy. Sergio Sr. used to eat foods like hot dogs, hamburgers, drink Coke, etc, all the way up to the contest sometimes. I heard in 1984 that he tried dieting much harder when he came back to compete at the Mr. Olympia and he cut back on his carbs and that's why he didn't look as good as he normally did. An older guy from Chicago told me a story about when Sergio first moved to Chicago in the early 1960's. He got a job working at a factory. The supervisor was a big bodybuilding fan and he went to the break room at lunch time to see what kind of special diet the great Sergio eats to have such a great physique. The guy was stunned to see Sergio eating Twinkies and drinking Mountain Dew for his lunch.
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An older guy from Chicago told me a story about when Sergio first moved to Chicago in the early 1960's. He got a job working at a factory. The supervisor was a big bodybuilding fan and he went to the break room at lunch time to see what kind of special diet the great Sergio eats to have such a great physique. The guy was stunned to see Sergio eating Twinkies and drinking Mountain Dew for his lunch.
lots of big bodybuilding fans then, sure you got the right guy?
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31 yo..
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31 yo..
Sergio Sr is shorter, thicker chest, smaller waist, lats are lower.
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(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b09332_3b7e6d00342c467f8d2abc1a56a91347~mv2.jpg)
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31 yo..
7 years earlier..
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johnny1 - great post. Thanks for posting that picture. I knew that Sergio had gotten into very good condition before, but I never knew that he had delts that feathered before.
I agree with your assessment regarding genetics. I think it's even possible that Sergio Sr. had better genetics than Ronnie Coleman. That's saying a lot of course, but I don't see why Sergio Sr. couldn't have put on 30-lb of muscle combined with superior conditioning with access to newer drugs and a better diet plan - perhaps with the help of a coach doing the thinking for him, just as his son has Chris Aceto for that.
Speaking of that - in order to be a diet coach in the bodybuilding industry, do you just sort of go after the big names and offer to help them, and then free-ride off the success of their work ethic? So for example, start with someone at the Nationals level, then as your name grows, attract better and better competitors, and just give them cookie cutter diets, all the while building your own reputation?
...or are Chris Aceto and others like him as good as they say?
In any case, I think that Sergio Sr., with a diet coach, and adherence to said diet, would be able to do EXTREMELY well.
”guru’s” like chad Nicolas Chris Aceto and the others...have a place...witch should be @ the start and finishing part of contest prep etc, you got too remember guys as recently as right up too the late 1990s (most) top pros never had these type of “professionals” too help them.
Like most things nowadays we live in a world of the instant or “quick” fix people in general are a lot lazier and don’t want too put in a lot of effort too do what’s needed too get themselves where they need too be and need constant and consistent “reassurance” bye so called professional “advisors”
IMO these guys need too think more about things themselves save a shit load of cash in the meantime because if you haven’t worked out your prep-drug-training side of this bodybuilding business bye the time you reach the npc levels let alone pro levels...there’s a problem.
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Senior :)
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Sergio Sr diet....Milkshakes, Canned Pork and Beans over rice...and pancakes.
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Not even close
Sr wins
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If both of them were on the same drug regimen, Sergio Sr. Of course. Jr. Looks good, but has high lats. Sr. arguably had the best bodybuilding genetics ever.
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I really think a fan giving the chance to pic one body or the other you know Sr wins every time if that's not better I dont know what is
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It doesn't take a scientist to think Sr had way more made drinking Coke and eat cake up tell the contest something about sr build just shocks a person
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(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b09332_3b7e6d00342c467f8d2abc1a56a91347~mv2.jpg)
Impressive for sure, but every time I see this shot I can't stop myself from noticing that he couldn't afford the watch bracelet adjustment.... :P
Edit: anyone on here care to identify the timepiece?
Edit #2: actually, is it even a f**king watch? :D
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;)
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Senior. Because he is a real man. Junior is gayer than Elton John.
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Impressive for sure, but every time I see this shot I can't stop myself from noticing that he couldn't afford the watch bracelet adjustment.... :P
Edit: anyone on here care to identify the timepiece?
Edit #2: actually, is it even a f**king watch? :D
I always thought it was a bracelet with a medallion type face.
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Senior, with a friend:
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Junior, in the gym:
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I always thought it was a bracelet with a medallion type face.
Yep, you're clearly correct - thank you - I have booked an eye exam. :)
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Senior, with a friend:
Those pants are hi-cut.... wonder what size neck they are...?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=637959.0;attach=748023;image)
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This is a great thread & this is an old article but apply
Sergio & his greatest attributes instead of Arnold.
This applies to if Arnold (or Sergio) were competing today
with today's standards and protocols. Not the 70's versions.
By Geoff Roberts
The best comparison to Arnold in the sport today in terms of a single physique in my mind would be Cedric McMillan. Assuming Cedric did or does the 2013 Olympia and he is in any kind of shape, it’s safe to say that your attention would be pulled towards his physique due to his height, width, lack of distention, and roundness. These are all attributes Arnold also possessed in strides in his prime. As imposing a figure as Cedric may be on stage, thoughts of a modern day Arnold gives imposing a whole new meaning with his Looney Tunes arms, pecs that each resemble 72-ounce steaks, and cannonball delts that would make me want to visit Gettysburg.
The classic vacuum pose is disappearing as fast as our rainforests today and nobody hit a vacuum like Arnold did, even when he weighed over 240 pounds, from the side his waist appeared to be only a few inches thick. This said, I fully believe with the right precautions Arnold would still have his nutty vacuum pose at over 280 pounds which would be astounding. In comparing a modern Arnold to Cedric it’s safe to say that Arnold would outdo Cedric in all of these shared attributes and take every pose outside of the rear lat spread.
In the Olympia first call out, assuming the top guys were all on their game, Arnold may not only be the tallest and heaviest competitor, but also the only one with the ability to hit a legitimate vacuum pose. It’s hard to say whether or not Arnold's weaknesses would still be weaknesses with modern knowledge and technology, however it’s only fair to assume they would be for the sake of this argument. With this in mind, Arnold would be vulnerable from the back, especially the back lat spread which is why finding a picture of Arnold hitting a back lat spread is similar to winning the lottery.
This is only one pose, however, and I personally feel his monster arms and delts would keep him above water in the back double bi. As far as the front shots it’s hard for me to imagine the show being anything but “lights out” for any competitor onstage not named Arnold. In Arnold's most muscular at a grainy 282 pounds his delts, arms, and chest would look like two shaved Belgian blue bulls all wrapped up in numerous pythons attempting to constrict them to death.
Who would win this epic battle – Phil looking like something even a cartoonist would say is unrealistic, Branch looking like he carbed-up on QUIKRETE (Aceto line), Jay looking as though he must have custom-made wide doors in order to fit through them, Big Ramy making the scale moan under 285 pounds at only 5'10” with a small waist, or Kai looking as dense as a scalding meteor pummeling towards earth?
Rather than beat a dead horse and attempt to mathematically compare waist sizes, arm sizes (if Arnold's arms were 22-plus inches at 240 pounds, what would they measure at 290 pounds?) etc., why don’t you go ahead and find a photo of Arnold's 1974 front double biceps and attempt to imagine him with modern day grainy conditioning. Oh, yeah, and 40-plus pounds of extra muscle evenly distributed over his physique. If the image this creates in your head does not evoke considerable chills down your spine you're either clinically blind or just simply not a true fan of bodybuilding!
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Senior, in 1971:
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Junior, in the gym:
hes put on alot of weight really fast. he was much smaller a few years ago
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hes put on alot of weight really fast. he was much smaller a few years ago
Most people that get with Aceto and improve rapidly for a while.
Guy knows his stuff & been helping people since at least 91.
Lately, he's gotten on this kick of bringing in people super full
& it's had more misses than hits. Hopefully, he'll go back to
condition 1st like Sergio Jr. in New York. Cedric won a weak Arnold
but didn't have a visible striation in his chest. Honestly, I think
Arnold was more conditioned in Pumping Iron overall than Cedric at the Arnold.
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Sergio Snr looks great but honestly, would look totally different in the same condition his son is in. Would his shape be the same after dropping 15-20 pounds? Maybe not
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comparing sergio jr to sergio sr , is like trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit
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comparing sergio jr to sergio sr , is like trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit
Damn! That was superb! Thank you good sir! ;D
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:)
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Yeah that quote that he ate cake and drank coke till the day of the show must be bullshit. Everyone know thats not how its done. Sergio was still a fuckin beast! Esp in 72.
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Damn! That was superb! Thank you good sir! ;D
thank you mr scott , sergio jr looks like shit, has a wide waist nothing about him stands out or is impressive, his dad on the other hand was a genetic beast.
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Sergio Senior had the much better Chest and Lats, in his customary, famous pose with the arms raised Junior has no Chest thickness and his lats attach too high. Dad is hard to beat for anyone, son included.
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:)
if thats a real pic from FLEX.. pretty cool
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jr is a walking pharmaceutical project nothing more
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I guess he would like the NY Pro, he won it:
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Promoting his Victory clothing line, in the gym:
https://www.victoryclothing.com
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Senior. Because he is a real man. Junior is gayer than Elton John.
Only if you want him to be:
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wide waist,something about his look that is off..surprised that he won the NY pro
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wide waist,something about his look that is off..surprised that he won the NY pro
i was shocked he won, i had to eat crow when i said he would never win a show, he does have a very odd look to him. his waist is 50 inches
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:)
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Lets see Sergio Jr on the lone drug cycle and diet that his father used. Pretty much just straight Dianabol ( as it was very well known that father Oliva refused to inject and hated needles from what Rick Wayne has said. And a precontest diet of pancakes, coca cola, Pork&Beans over white rice and ChefBoy RD canned raviolis.
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Jr. doesn't pull off that pose. He's not thick enough and his arms look too long.
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Jr. doesn't pull off that pose. He's not thick enough and his arms look too long.
and he has the 50 inch waist as well from "all those protein shakes" hes been taking down to foot the drug and food bill
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and he has the 50 inch waist as well from "all those protein shakes" hes been taking down to foot the drug and food bill
Don't forget from too much creatine too
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:)
Junior is Good
His Dad was Elite in terms of shape & structure
Also how would jr look on a similar drugs to his dad
Snr in a different class to jr.
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wide waist,something about his look that is off..surprised that he won the NY pro
yea, but marketing potential plays a part and they are pushing that hard with him
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Jr's front double-bi pose kind of bugs me. It looks like he's not flexing his biceps at all--it's like he just raises his arms to do the pose and then I'm waiting for something to happen, for something to "pop" but his biceps just sit there not doing anything.
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Poor version of The Myth 8)
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1972
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Jr's front double-bi pose kind of bugs me. It looks like he's not flexing his biceps at all--it's like he just raises his arms to do the pose and then I'm waiting for something to happen, for something to "pop" but his biceps just sit there not doing anything.
Oil ?
I've not seen him do that pose so can't really comment accurately.
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The arms of Junior resemble Sergio. Everything else. Complety different two physiques. Great built nevertheless.
Of course a little more ripped Jr. cannot be beter than Sergio.
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Lets see Sergio Jr on the lone drug cycle and diet that his father used. Pretty much just straight Dianabol ( as it was very well known that father Oliva refused to inject and hated needles from what Rick Wayne has said. And a precontest diet of pancakes, coca cola, Pork&Beans over white rice and ChefBoy RD canned raviolis.
Apparently he used testosterone and winstrol, which ended up drying out and damaging most of his joints.
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:)