Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: IndustryInsider on April 20, 2006, 07:19:45 AM
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This morning a client asked me to take a quick look over Flex’s circulation numbers. So I decided to look a bit further back then I would normally, as I’ve noticed that it seems like every 6 months they are down. What I found by looking further was astounding :o
As reported by ABC, one of the companies that audits magazine circulation:
6 month average ending June 30, 2002 – Total Paid Circulation – 154,199
6 month average ending Dec. 31, 2005 – Total Paid Circulation – 111,640
This magazine has lost almost 1/3rd of its paid circulation over the last 3 years!!!!! :o
The horror continued when I broke out their subscription and newsstand sales. They are down 11,413 subscribers and 31,146 copies sold on the newsstand. Again these are 6 month average sales per issue.
For those who are not aware, while subscribers are important to a magazine, it is the sales trend on the newsstand that allows us to gauge the vitality of a publication. With numbers like this I don’t see any vitality here, and frankly could not support budgeting a client’s Ad dollars into their pub. Put simply, this is one sinking ship that I simply could not put my client’s money into.
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MD kills them in every way - i pick it up every month but I don't read it cover to cover like I do with MD
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This morning a client asked me to take a quick look over Flex’s circulation numbers. So I decided to look a bit further back then I would normally, as I’ve noticed that it seems like every 6 months they are down. What I found by looking further was astounding :o
As reported by ABC, one of the companies that audits magazine circulation:
6 month average ending June 30, 2002 – Total Paid Circulation – 154,199
6 month average ending Dec. 31, 2005 – Total Paid Circulation – 111,640
This magazine has lost almost 1/3rd of its paid circulation over the last 3 years!!!!! :o
The horror continued when I broke out their subscription and newsstand sales. They are down 11,413 subscribers and 31,146 copies sold on the newsstand. Again these are 6 month average sales per issue.
For those who are not aware, while subscribers are important to a magazine, it is the sales trend on the newsstand that allows us to gauge the vitality of a publication. With numbers like this I don’t see any vitality here, and frankly could not support budgeting a client’s Ad dollars into their pub. Put simply, this is one sinking ship that I simply could not put my client’s money into.
Insider - did you run a report on all the other magazines as well or just FLEX? All magazines are hurting over the past 3 years, why not post the numbers of the other mags for us to see how they all compare?
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Insider - did you run a report on all the other magazines as well or just FLEX? All magazines are hurting over the past 3 years, why not post the numbers of the other mags for us to see how they all compare?
That's what makes it laughable when the GetBig and Mayhem guys spend so much time talking about 'the magazines, the magazines' as if they're somehow going to sustain the industry and take it to the next level.
Not going to happen.
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This morning a client asked me to take a quick look over Flex’s circulation numbers. So I decided to look a bit further back then I would normally, as I’ve noticed that it seems like every 6 months they are down. What I found by looking further was astounding :o
As reported by ABC, one of the companies that audits magazine circulation:
6 month average ending June 30, 2002 – Total Paid Circulation – 154,199
6 month average ending Dec. 31, 2005 – Total Paid Circulation – 111,640
This magazine has lost almost 1/3rd of its paid circulation over the last 3 years!!!!! :o
The horror continued when I broke out their subscription and newsstand sales. They are down 11,413 subscribers and 31,146 copies sold on the newsstand. Again these are 6 month average sales per issue.
For those who are not aware, while subscribers are important to a magazine, it is the sales trend on the newsstand that allows us to gauge the vitality of a publication. With numbers like this I don’t see any vitality here, and frankly could not support budgeting a client’s Ad dollars into their pub. Put simply, this is one sinking ship that I simply could not put my client’s money into.
Interesting, but no surprise to me. Flex sucks for anyone who understands that drinking cell-tech and following "the pro's workouts" won't get you any bigger than the average garbage man. It’s geared towards kids who are still under the illusion that the pro’s get big and ripped using only the supplements listed within their pages.
I may buy one issue of Flex a year, like when I'm in an airport or something. On the other hand, I subscribe to MD and read it cover to cover, and then some.
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That's what makes it laughable when the GetBig and Mayhem guys spend so much time talking about 'the magazines, the magazines' as if they're somehow going to sustain the industry and take it to the next level.
Not going to happen.
Magazines will always be around, not claiming they will take it to the next level (however you determine that) but magazines will be around.
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Clearly the downward trend in mag sales is indicative of the direction pro bodybuilding has gone over the last decade or so. What a mess...
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Magazines will always be around, not claiming they will take it to the next level (however you determine that) but magazines will be around.
You're right.
I can still get a horse-and-buggy ride in many places.
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I like the "real" training shoots they do, like the Ronnie Leg workout from a couple of months ago and the Jonnie Jackson/Branch back workout they had but overall I'm about ready to drop this book and I've had a sub since like 1995, it's just not a fun magazine any more. how many Arnolds training articles can they have? The contest coverage is horrible. The Olympia coverage was terrible. Certain guys need to be promoted to sell the sport and they just are not willing to do that..
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People rather go online for their BB info ... plain and simple
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You're right.
I can still get a horse-and-buggy ride in many places.
HAHA yes you can but you know my point Tre. Are you going to take your laptop into the can to read? err... don't answer that. ;D
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Insider - did you run a report on all the other magazines as well or just FLEX? All magazines are hurting over the past 3 years, why not post the numbers of the other mags for us to see how they all compare?
Very few bodybuilding magazines are actually audited by ABC, so it would be too hard to prove. You could easily phone a rep for MD, MuscleMag etc and ask them their circulation, subscribers etc but there is no way of proving the numbers are real because they've not put out the cash for an ABC Audit.
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I can't remember the last time I bought any of these magazines. There's just too much good information and feedback on the internet.
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Anyone who knows anything about media knows that the internet has hurt sales of all forms of print media, not just flex magazine. Newspaper sales and magazine subscriptions across the board have dropped off significantly with the prevelance of internet sites.
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MD is embracing the web and being realllllllllly nice to getBig after bashing it for 2 straight years. They finally entered the 21st century.
FLEX... well... their head is still buried in schmoe sand.
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MD is embracing the web
Why no online coverage of the masters, since you have an official line to Ramano and Blechman?
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Bought about 3 'musclemags' in my time, 2 flex and 1 MD. All they were is a bunch of useless adds with some basic nutrition and workout tips. Nothing revolutionary, and not anywhere near they 9 bucks they are asking for. You get so much better information via the internet anyway.
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Why no online coverage of the masters, since you have an official line to Ramano and Blechman?
Beats me. I'm not claiming MD is perfect- I have personally been the target of some of their blasts. But they are obviously making more of an effort than FLEX. Blechman, ROmano, Cara, and Mannien are here now and then, even if only to spam. We never see FLEX here, unless it's a kevin horton PDI-bashfest.
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I like the "real" training shoots they do, like the Ronnie Leg workout from a couple of months ago and the Jonnie Jackson/Branch back workout they had but overall I'm about ready to drop this book and I've had a sub since like 1995, it's just not a fun magazine any more. how many Arnolds training articles can they have? The contest coverage is horrible. The Olympia coverage was terrible. Certain guys need to be promoted to sell the sport and they just are not willing to do that..
dude who said flex magazines contest coverage sucks...it has the best contest coverage of all time.and yes ur going 2 b stupid to follow those workouts shown in flex magazines since wat ever they show is for fun.....its just showbiz.people buy these magazines only for fun.MD is on the other hand the worst ever..half of the magazine is filled with ads and the picture quality sucks .........not every issue of flex is good but it is definetly better than other muscle magazines.that i know for sure
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I'm not claiming MD is perfect- I have personally been the target of some of their blasts.
Some?
Where and when?
I need to pick up those mags to see for myself.
YIP
Zack
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Romano's column on the back page, I don't konw the issue numbers, but I have them around here somewhere. He attacked the board members who made animated gifs and fake webpages. There was only one guy making those pages. He also goaded interviewees into agreeing with his board-bashing.
Now, MD seems to be getting more in tune with the untapped message board market, and they're starting to support it more, with restrictions on anonymity and attacks, which is fair.
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I'm not claiming MD is perfect
In other words, you are claiming that MD is not perfect?! :o Such nonsense cannot go unpunished. :-* I have to call our lawyer.. ;D
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Romano's column on the back page, I don't konw the issue numbers, but I have them around here somewhere. He attacked the board members who made animated gifs and fake webpages. There was only one guy making those pages.
I have personally been the target of some of their blasts.
Thanks for the clarification mang. I need to check out that Romano column then. Still wonder why you think it was targeted at you. Did he mention your handle in the column or something?
He also goaded interviewees into agreeing with his board-bashing.
Now... Isn't this a little, how shall I put it, conspiratoric?
Area 51? Zapruder Movie? ???
YIP
Zack
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Flex still outsells the others by a wide margin. MuscleMag is #2. Ironman and MD are tied for last. Though no other mags have the courage to be audited, the numbers are well known in the supp industry, and they're pretty pathetic for the other mags. The reason why Flex gets over 5 times more per ad page than MD for example is because they outsell them by that much.
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Flex still outsells the others by a wide margin. MuscleMag is #2. Ironman and MD are tied for last.
What a load of BS. :o
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In other words, you are claiming that MD is not perfect?! :o Such nonsense cannot go unpunished. :-* I have to call our lawyer.. ;D
(http://www.theconservativevoice.com/ap/img/OLYPO22002261658.jpg)
YIP
Zack
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Flex still outsells the others by a wide margin. MuscleMag is #2. Ironman and MD are tied for last. Though no other mags have the courage to be audited, the numbers are well known in the supp industry, and they're pretty pathetic for the other mags. The reason why Flex gets over 5 times more per ad page than MD for example is because they outsell them by that much.
"Flex is the greatest ever!!!! It must be the best if it sells the most." - Lil Timmy. Age 11, dreams of becoming a pro bodybuilder.
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Those pesky Swedish punks! :D
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Insider - did you run a report on all the other magazines as well or just FLEX? All magazines are hurting over the past 3 years, why not post the numbers of the other mags for us to see how they all compare?
hey lift,
are you being reimbursed for your IFBB/Flex/Weider/Manion/AMI internet damage control services?
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Was'nt it only a few weeks ago that we were told that "the weider pubs are doing fine"? I could swear that I remember reading that on here. ::)
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Thanks for the clarification mang. I need to check out that Romano column then. Still wonder why you think it was targeted at you. Did he mention your handle in the column or something?
getbig was way different back then. When I posted my first animated gif:
(http://www.smackdaddymusic.com/hulkbulk.gif)
it was some kind of culture shock, like a 3rd dimension of posting had been invented, graphic satirical media or something.
Then, after a lot of Craig Titus stuff was going on (he denied being the undercover pro), I launched a fake website about the undercover pro in which Craig "told all":
www.smackdaddymusic.com/up.htm
Most of the world thought it was real. Mayhem went crazy at the content. BBing.com went crazy. Titus called Ron and threatened lawsuits. Titus sent me threats via PM, etc. Lots of fake pages and animated gifs followed.
After that U Pro fiasco, MD wrote about it the next month. John Romano called out "message board members who make little animated slideshows and fake websites", and I was the only one did those.
Since then, I have really stopped doing those. I like to invoke some discussions here, push a few buttons, etc, but I really don't think I'm negative enough to warrant the extreme hatred that some people give me. Oh well... if I'm still here after my personal info was posted, I"m not going anywhere. My wife knows that we make a good living from the message board antics, and there are side effect- prank calls, etc, that come with it. Competition gets dirty too, when you start grabbing every available site out there. But yeah, that's where the MD reference came from...
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You're right.
I can still get a horse-and-buggy ride in many places.
Actually in Denver you can. It is fun too.
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How are the numbers for the NPC magazine.
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HAHA yes you can but you know my point Tre. Are you going to take your laptop into the can to read? err... don't answer that. ;D
LOL! You're right - until multiple plasma screens are a fixture at every checkout in the world, there will always be a place for print magazines.
If I'm a magazine publisher, then I'm heading to boards like this to find the most knowledgeable and entertaining writers and requesting that they submit some articles to me. I know 240 has a lot of detractors, but the kid does have a lot of readers. I'm not saying he's 'The Chosen', but there are other guys here who get a lot of interest whenever they post.
I don't know what the general content of the mags is like these days (although I did purchase Nov '05 MD to read Chad's anti-internet article), but I do see a lot of long-time supporters saying that they only buy the magazines these days out of a sense of loyalty or force of habit. I stopped buying several years ago, because I was tired of seeing recycled content and the same old faces month-after-month. The print magazines that thrive do so because of their freshness, something this industry (read: Weider Pubs) has never quite grasped.
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Anyone who knows anything about media knows that the internet has hurt sales of all forms of print media, not just flex magazine. Newspaper sales and magazine subscriptions across the board have dropped off significantly with the prevelance of internet sites.
Is that the reason the IFBB is so anti-internet?
hehe
The people who control the print media have failed to adapt with the times. So, it's their own fault that they're failing. Improve the product if you want to stay in the game.
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What are the numbers for the other BB mags?
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Any magazine that glorifies steroid monsters deserves to go bankrupt.
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What are the numbers for the other BB mags?
Muscle & Fitness is around 400K
Flex is aournd 120K
MuscleMag is around 60K
Ironman and MD are around 20K
Those are just North American. Muscle & Fitness and Flex have major numbers worldwide. The others don't. Ron has posted the numbers before, as he works in the supp industry, where the numbers are well-known because they determine ad rates. Weider Pubs have actually increased market share (and ad rates).
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Muscle & Fitness is around 400K
Flex is aournd 120K
MuscleMag is around 60K
Ironman and MD are around 20K
Those are just North American. Muscle & Fitness and Flex have major numbers worldwide. The others don't. Ron has posted the numbers before, as he works in the supp industry, where the numbers are well-known because they determine ad rates. Weider Pubs have actually increased market share (and ad rates).
Wow. Muscle and Fitness is dominant, while MD and Ironman are jokes ;D
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Wow. Muscle and Fitness is dominant, while MD and Ironman are jokes ;D
And Readers Digest probably blows M&F out of the water. Which would you rather read?
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People rather go online for their BB info ... plain and simple
Yep.
It's the internet that's killing the magazines.
But, the money in the "industry" comes from supplement sales, not the mags. The magazines were just an intermediary...they take supplement company money in the form of ads, and pay some out in athlete contracts and show sponsorships.
The death of the mags would just cut out the middleman, that's all.
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And Readers Digest probably blows M&F out of the water. Which would you rather read?
Readers Digest and Muscle and Fitness are not similar, so the comparison doesn't make much sense. I was just shocked at how insignificant MD was :-\
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Muscle & Fitness is around 400K
Flex is aournd 120K
MuscleMag is around 60K
Ironman and MD are around 20K
Those are just North American. Muscle & Fitness and Flex have major numbers worldwide. The others don't. Ron has posted the numbers before, as he works in the supp industry, where the numbers are well-known because they determine ad rates. Weider Pubs have actually increased market share (and ad rates).
Interesting debate that I’ve kicked off here…The facts at hand are that Flex is down and there is 3rd party data that backs up this statement.
Undermind, where is your source for the numbers that you posted above? What references do you have for your statements on all of these magazines and their circulation? Without a credible reference you are doing nothing more than blowing smoke and giving YOUR opinion.
From what I hear in the industry, MD is the most popular and fastest growing publication in the bodybuilding category, especially since their recent chain-wide distribution into Walmart, Albertson’s, and Walgreens.
It’s true that the other magazines are not audited, however it cannot be disputed that Flex’s circulation is down by nearly 1/3rd over the last 3 years.
As a reminder from a previous post on a similar topic, once again I give you Flex magazine’s second half of 2005 numbers direct from ABC and min. 1st quarter 2006 numbers are not available yet.
March 6, 2006
Media Industry Newsletter (min)
Vol. 59 No. 10
Second Half 2005 Magazine Analysis
Flex Rate Base/Circ Guarantee
None claimed
Single Copies (%) (Newsstand Sales)
70,529 (-7.3%)
This is not a sign of poor customer service, producing a withering product editorially is most likely the culprit for the decline in sales here.
Subscriptions (%)
41,111 (-13.4%)
This decline looks to be right on par with your customer service woes.
Total (%)
111,640 (-9.6%)
Ouch!!!
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Interesting debate that I’ve kicked off here…The facts at hand are that Flex is down and there is 3rd party data that backs up this statement.
Undermind, where is your source for the numbers that you posted above? What references do you have for your statements on all of these magazines and their circulation? Without a credible reference you are doing nothing more than blowing smoke and giving YOUR opinion.
From what I hear in the industry, MD is the most popular and fastest growing publication in the bodybuilding category, especially since their recent chain-wide distribution into Walmart, Albertson’s, and Walgreens.
It’s true that the other magazines are not audited, however it cannot be disputed that Flex’s circulation is down by nearly 1/3rd over the last 3 years.
As a reminder from a previous post on a similar topic, once again I give you Flex magazine’s second half of 2005 numbers direct from ABC and min. 1st quarter 2006 numbers are not available yet.
March 6, 2006
Media Industry Newsletter (min)
Vol. 59 No. 10
Second Half 2005 Magazine Analysis
Flex Rate Base/Circ Guarantee
None claimed
Single Copies (%) (Newsstand Sales)
70,529 (-7.3%)
This is not a sign of poor customer service, producing a withering product editorially is most likely the culprit for the decline in sales here.
Subscriptions (%)
41,111 (-13.4%)
This decline looks to be right on par with your customer service woes.
Total (%)
111,640 (-9.6%)
Ouch!!!
MD is probably the fastest growing because it had no readers in the first place ;D
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Any magazine that glorifies steroid monsters deserves to go bankrupt.
Why do you hate Baseball Weekly?
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Why do you hate Baseball Weekly?
That was pretty good
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Flex still outsells the others by a wide margin. MuscleMag is #2. Ironman and MD are tied for last. Though no other mags have the courage to be audited, the numbers are well known in the supp industry, and they're pretty pathetic for the other mags. The reason why Flex gets over 5 times more per ad page than MD for example is because they outsell them by that much.
I don't know the exact numbers of any current muscle magazine and could give a hoot. However, if the current trend in sales drop is true for FLEX it reflects what I think and perhaps others. I was a pretty reg reader and subscriber to FLEX for MANY years until a year ago. I have been a subscriber of MD for the past couple years.
MD seems to cover the sport as it is. I have nothing against FLEX, but when they feature WWE pro wrasslers on the cover and in in feature artcles, count me out.
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I guess the thing that I hate the most is the sub-par contest coverage. The latest FLEX gives just 5 pages to the Ironman...5 FREAKIN' pages to the #3 or 4 contest on the IFBB schedule.
Yet the same Mag ccan give 8 or 10 pages to half naked fitness chicks. If I want porn, I'll buy it. I want a BB mag...that's why MD gats my $7 every month.
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wow...I wonder which magazine IndustryInsider works for...
Some people prefer FLEX, some prefer MD or others...that's it.
These boards can be great if everyone spends less time slamming other people and the mags and have constructive conversations, and unless there are baseline numbers for the industry as a whole, the numbers that are being quoted regarding sales are meaningless-except as a propaganda attack on a competitor.
just my 2 cents
C
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wow...I wonder which magazine IndustryInsider works for...
Some people prefer FLEX, some prefer MD or others...that's it.
These boards can be great if everyone spends less time slamming other people and the mags and have constructive conversations, and unless there are baseline numbers for the industry as a whole, the numbers that are being quoted regarding sales are meaningless-except as a propaganda attack on a competitor.
just my 2 cents
C
This is the truth. Coming around and offering incomplete information doesn't really benefit us.
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Actually the info looked pretty complete to me. The topic is Flex and that's what he shared with us.
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Without a credible reference you are doing nothing more than blowing smoke and giving YOUR opinion.
You should prove him wrong. If his information is wrong, prove it. The simple fact is, you can't. AMI audits and I think oxygen does as well. Making any comment about the circulation of any non audited mag is totally worthless. Nothing can be proven. Where I live, there is not a single stand/bookstore that carries MD. Everyone carries M&F or Flex.
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Actually the info looked pretty complete to me. The topic is Flex and that's what he shared with us.
Without providing information on the circulation of other magazines it is difficult to analyze what is going on. Is it Flex or the entire bodybuilding mag industry that is shrinking? So, no, the information was very much incomplete.
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I prefer MD out of all of them. It's the only one that ever mentions steroids in a realistic light. They recognize steriods are part of the industry instead of just ignoring it. Plus they seem to have more athletes columns.
Is it Ironman that pushes the X rep system? I hate the fact they talk about it nonstop but never say exactly what the system actually is becuase they want you to buy the system.
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Wonder what the "numbers" of unique users are for getbig or other BB info site. Are they growing vs. print pub decline?