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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Darren Avey on March 28, 2021, 02:07:19 AM

Title: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Darren Avey on March 28, 2021, 02:07:19 AM
What a KO!! The new heavyweight ufc champ!!!
Is he now unbeatable?
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Royalty on March 28, 2021, 02:19:38 AM
Stipe gave up too much body weight against Francis. Francis made improvements. And now Francis will be difficult to beat.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Darren Avey on March 28, 2021, 02:37:37 AM
He dont want none of Martyn Ford
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: oldgolds on March 28, 2021, 05:14:31 AM
I'm pretty certain that Stipe is a steroid free athlete...If he took the same drugs as Francis would the outcome be different?...Maybe...A 260 lb Stipe with more punching power might change the game.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Thin Lizzy on March 28, 2021, 05:59:15 AM
I'm pretty certain that Stipe is a steroid free athlete...If he took the same drugs as Francis would the outcome be different?...Maybe...A 260 lb Stipe with more punching power might change the game.

Francis at 24. Doesn’t look 260:

Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: SOMEPARTS on March 28, 2021, 07:36:07 AM
BGG or legit kigs?
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Dave D on March 28, 2021, 08:00:26 AM
I love the UFC hype machine.

Everyone who wins just beat the greatest fighter ever and now that person is undefeatable! No one even questions this.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Kwon on March 28, 2021, 08:03:07 AM
Darren VS SF1900

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/c98407c2b3823834ae7577abb438563e/tumblr_mj4egvVay41ry1rm7o1_250.gifv)
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: AbrahamG on March 28, 2021, 08:18:14 AM
I'm pretty certain that Stipe is a steroid free athlete...If he took the same drugs as Francis would the outcome be different?...Maybe...A 260 lb Stipe with more punching power might change the game.

Shut the fuck up already.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: a_pupil on March 28, 2021, 02:23:24 PM
BGG or legit kigs?

Tainted jollof rice

Stipe looked underweight in there. He should have kept his distance until at least the 3rd, as ngannou is too big to keep a decent a pace without gassing.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: bLuEeYes on March 28, 2021, 02:36:30 PM
Jones is getting knocked out next
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Matt on March 28, 2021, 02:41:57 PM
Shut the fuck up already.

Hang on there, Abraham. You know I respect you. I know who you are here on the boards, and your background and knowledge, and you know I'd never get out of line with you. But unless I'm missing a beef between you and oldgolds, I sort of see his point there.

Ngannou is, IMO, a once-in-a-generation elite level freak athlete. I initially saw him as a one-trick pony with a hard punch, then as a one-trick pony with a hard punch fighting former top heavyweights and beating them because they had too many miles on them [wear and tear from years of fighting, nagging injuries, etc].

After last night, I can no longer pretend Ngannou is anything but the real deal.

But a bigger Stipe Miocic might be a harder fight. That said, a roided up Stipe is going to trade off some cardio to oxidize that muscle. That's just what muscle mass does.

But might there be some truth in the thought that Stipe is clean and Ngannou is juiced? The UFC needs a big star, and Ronda Rousey is long gone, and Conor McGregor seems to be done.

Is it possible that with the assistance of Dana White, Francis is getting around USADA testing somehow?

Stipe is 6'4" and 234-lb. Hardly an impossible physique to achieve for a 38-year-old longtime athlete. Ngannou is 263-lb and leaner, at the same height.

Is it really unreasonable to think Ngannou may be juiced, and
that he foughtt a clean Miocic last night?
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: AbrahamG on March 28, 2021, 03:29:24 PM
I wasn't entirely serious with the stfu comment. But honestly, who's on drugs and who isn't is tired. Stipe used to fight in the 240's. He's consciously  chosen to come in lighter in his past couple fights. Francis showed he's been putting in the work. Stuffed takedowns, leg kicks, etc. Also,  there's no credible reports of Francis skirting the system.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: oldgolds on March 28, 2021, 04:17:32 PM
Look fool....If you can't tell by now if a guy is juiced you are incredibly dumb or naive. I can spot a juicer immediately, especially a guy like Francis N.
In Stipe's case I'm 95% sure he's natural.   If you don't think roids are an advantage in MMA then you are as I said, a fool, or dishonest.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: SOMEPARTS on March 28, 2021, 04:39:46 PM
Tainted jollof rice

Stipe looked underweight in there. He should have kept his distance until at least the 3rd, as ngannou is too big to keep a decent a pace without gassing.


Stipe did look a bit stringy. The obvious way to try and win against a huge guy is gas him but the whole getting KTFO in the process is a deal breaker.

Would love to see Jones take a beating.

Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: chaos on March 28, 2021, 04:42:38 PM
Don't they need a tie breaker rematch?
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Bevo on March 28, 2021, 05:18:54 PM
Hang on there, Abraham. You know I respect you. I know who you are here on the boards, and your background and knowledge, and you know I'd never get out of line with you. But unless I'm missing a beef between you and oldgolds, I sort of see his point there.

Ngannou is, IMO, a once-in-a-generation elite level freak athlete. I initially saw him as a one-trick pony with a hard punch, then as a one-trick pony with a hard punch fighting former top heavyweights and beating them because they had too many miles on them [wear and tear from years of fighting, nagging injuries, etc].

After last night, I can no longer pretend Ngannou is anything but the real deal.

But a bigger Stipe Miocic might be a harder fight. That said, a roided up Stipe is going to trade off some cardio to oxidize that muscle. That's just what muscle mass does.

But might there be some truth in the thought that Stipe is clean and Ngannou is juiced? The UFC needs a big star, and Ronda Rousey is long gone, and Conor McGregor seems to be done.

Is it possible that with the assistance of Dana White, Francis is getting around USADA testing somehow?

Stipe is 6'4" and 234-lb. Hardly an impossible physique to achieve for a 38-year-old longtime athlete. Ngannou is 263-lb and leaner, at the same height.

Is it really unreasonable to think Ngannou may be juiced, and
that he foughtt a clean Miocic last night?

Every other athlete is a once in a generation athlete these days. That term gets thrown around only second to the stupid overhyped phrase “GOAT”
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 28, 2021, 05:42:09 PM
Incredible athlete.  Catch the Rogan interview of him on his podcast. If that doesn't effect your heart you don't have one. The guy truly came from poverty and did manual labor with a shovel all day.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: pamith on March 28, 2021, 05:44:55 PM
This is a big disgrace :(
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Les Grossman on March 28, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
Hang on there, Abraham. You know I respect you. I know who you are here on the boards, and your background and knowledge, and you know I'd never get out of line with you. But unless I'm missing a beef between you and oldgolds, I sort of see his point there.

Ngannou is, IMO, a once-in-a-generation elite level freak athlete. I initially saw him as a one-trick pony with a hard punch, then as a one-trick pony with a hard punch fighting former top heavyweights and beating them because they had too many miles on them [wear and tear from years of fighting, nagging injuries, etc].

After last night, I can no longer pretend Ngannou is anything but the real deal.

But a bigger Stipe Miocic might be a harder fight. That said, a roided up Stipe is going to trade off some cardio to oxidize that muscle. That's just what muscle mass does.

But might there be some truth in the thought that Stipe is clean and Ngannou is juiced? The UFC needs a big star, and Ronda Rousey is long gone, and Conor McGregor seems to be done.

Is it possible that with the assistance of Dana White, Francis is getting around USADA testing somehow?

Stipe is 6'4" and 234-lb. Hardly an impossible physique to achieve for a 38-year-old longtime athlete. Ngannou is 263-lb and leaner, at the same height.

Is it really unreasonable to think Ngannou may be juiced, and
that he foughtt a clean Miocic last night?

Once in a generation?

Juiced Overreem would absolutely shitkick juiced Ngannou like a redheaded step child.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: keanu on March 28, 2021, 08:46:47 PM
Once in a generation?

Juiced Overreem would absolutely shitkick juiced Ngannou like a redheaded step child.

Overeem isn't the juice bag he used to be but his chin has always been suspect. Francis beat him so easily.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: keanu on March 28, 2021, 08:55:19 PM
To beat Francis you need to take him down or tire him out. Currently there isn't anyone that can do this, but wait a couple of years. Everyone has their kryptonite.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Dave D on March 28, 2021, 09:21:44 PM
To beat Francis you need to take him down or tire him out. Currently there isn't anyone that can do this, but wait a couple of years. Everyone has their kryptonite.

A couple years? Isn’t he in his late 30s? He’s fighting the hands of time at this stage.

I watched an interview with Mark Coleman and he made a comment about today’s heavyweights don’t want to go to the ground, that there’s not enough wrestling and so on. I thought he was off base but looking at current state of HW maybe his point was valid.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Les Grossman on March 28, 2021, 09:30:24 PM
Overeem isn't the juice bag he used to be but his chin has always been suspect. Francis beat him so easily.

In their prime vs prime.

(Prime = Peak of their career, not the disgusting old phaggot)
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Kwon on March 28, 2021, 09:53:09 PM
Prime Juiced Ubereem would show Francis a thing or two!
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Ssxa on March 29, 2021, 01:47:33 AM
Only HW that could beat Ngannou right now is Black Beast. It would probably be 50/50, but either guy can end it with one punch. Despite the physiques, BB actually has better cardio.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: IroNat on March 29, 2021, 04:04:32 AM
Only one man could beat him and he's dead...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/7PRnVZZARQVK8/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Kwon on March 29, 2021, 05:28:42 AM
Darren Averagery is the only one that could defeat Frank!


(https://64.media.tumblr.com/4b08f803f3ded64c9bb922792818a746/tumblr_ns7al3nM7h1u69r8ko1_400.gifv)(https://64.media.tumblr.com/49806cd139817b28336d2ef0070d9547/tumblr_ns6ekioKDE1u69r8ko1_250sq.gifv)
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Marty Champions on March 29, 2021, 06:17:42 AM
Ill come out of retirment to destroy neeglunu
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: AbrahamG on March 29, 2021, 07:32:44 AM
Look fool....If you can't tell by now if a guy is juiced you are incredibly dumb or naive. I can spot a juicer immediately, especially a guy like Francis N.
In Stipe's case I'm 95% sure he's natural.   If you don't think roids are an advantage in MMA then you are as I said, a fool, or dishonest.

Since you're science driven data indicates a 95% likelihood that Stipe has not taken ped's, we can close this thread now. Also, I never said either guy was clean or dirty nor did I say ped's wouldn't give an advantage. Again, why do you have do much vested in who uses and who doesn't? Francis has yet to fail a test and there are zero credible allegations that he's being allowed to skirt the system. Now go get your fucking shine box! 🤣
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: AbrahamG on March 29, 2021, 07:58:06 AM
Hang on there, Abraham. You know I respect you. I know who you are here on the boards, and your background and knowledge, and you know I'd never get out of line with you. But unless I'm missing a beef between you and oldgolds, I sort of see his point there.

Ngannou is, IMO, a once-in-a-generation elite level freak athlete. I initially saw him as a one-trick pony with a hard punch, then as a one-trick pony with a hard punch fighting former top heavyweights and beating them because they had too many miles on them [wear and tear from years of fighting, nagging injuries, etc].

After last night, I can no longer pretend Ngannou is anything but the real deal.

But a bigger Stipe Miocic might be a harder fight. That said, a roided up Stipe is going to trade off some cardio to oxidize that muscle. That's just what muscle mass does.

But might there be some truth in the thought that Stipe is clean and Ngannou is juiced? The UFC needs a big star, and Ronda Rousey is long gone, and Conor McGregor seems to be done.

Is it possible that with the assistance of Dana White, Francis is getting around USADA testing somehow?

Stipe is 6'4" and 234-lb. Hardly an impossible physique to achieve for a 38-year-old longtime athlete. Ngannou is 263-lb and leaner, at the same height.

Is it really unreasonable to think Ngannou may be juiced, and
that he foughtt a clean Miocic last night?

Bronx Tale?
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Darren Avey on March 29, 2021, 08:54:33 AM
Martyn Ford will destroy Francis
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: AbrahamG on March 29, 2021, 09:32:51 AM
Only HW that could beat Ngannou right now is Black Beast. It would probably be 50/50, but either guy can end it with one punch. Despite the physiques, BB actually has better cardio.

Cyril Gane is the heir apparent.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: hardgainerj on March 29, 2021, 08:14:14 PM
Darren VS SF1900

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/c98407c2b3823834ae7577abb438563e/tumblr_mj4egvVay41ry1rm7o1_250.gifv)
Silva should have been DQ poor yuki
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: hardgainerj on March 29, 2021, 08:14:56 PM
Don't they need a tie breaker rematch?
miocic should ride off to cte city
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: hardgainerj on March 29, 2021, 08:22:30 PM
Once in a generation?

Juiced Overreem would absolutely shitkick juiced Ngannou like a redheaded step child.
overeem has always been chinny he benefited from the peekaboo style with k1 gloves
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: hardgainerj on March 29, 2021, 08:23:46 PM
To beat Francis you need to take him down or tire him out. Currently there isn't anyone that can do this, but wait a couple of years. Everyone has their kryptonite.
if Jon Jones gets in shape he will grind the African out
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: honest on March 29, 2021, 08:30:38 PM
Stipe will win the third fight and he won't need juice to do it, just a better gameplan, and just because Ngannou looks the way he does doesn't mean he's currently gased,no doubt he would have built some drug induced mass over the years but todays testing isn't easily manipulated,look at overreem compared to pride days, and anyone who thinks stipe or cornier haven't used gear to overcome injuries at times is naive.
Stipe will win the third fight, not by juicing, by respecting his power, managing his distance and by taking him down and putting him on his back, he was to hesitant in there, a prime Cormier would also beat Ngannou, you just don't stand with or even dirty box, Juice robs you of your cardio, sure it ups your power, but also your lactic acid, I dont think Ngannou is over gased, he won that fight listening and learning from Usman and improving his wrestling knowledge and base. Stipe can beat him in a third fight, just put him on his back and have his mass work against him.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: hardgainerj on March 30, 2021, 06:42:33 AM
Stipe is done
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: lightweight83 on March 30, 2021, 06:51:10 AM
Only HW that could beat Ngannou right now is Black Beast. It would probably be 50/50, but either guy can end it with one punch. Despite the physiques, BB actually has better cardio.

This was my thoughts as well.  No one else has a chance at the moment. 
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: King Shizzo on March 30, 2021, 07:17:56 AM
This was my thoughts as well.  No one else has a chance at the moment.
Frank Mir could take him.
Seriously though, Heavyweights need to get better at wrestling and submissions. Stipe proved that with his decision win against Ngannou in the first fight.

Few (if any) can match his punching power. It will take a guy with above average power, and high level collegiate wrestling, to beat Francis (minus a lucky punch that can happen to anyone)

A heavyweight with great submission skills (does one exist  ???) Would be hard to beat.

If Jon Jones can gain enough weight (part of Stipe's problem) he has the skills to take Ngannou down multiple times, and the submissions to take him out.

He just needs the weight/strength to do it.

The problem with Ngannou, is he has superhero power. Nobody can take a flush shot from that man, most get hurt by getting clipped. That's what makes him so dangerous  and exciting to watch.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: hardgainerj on March 30, 2021, 08:53:02 AM
Frank Miranda is a beat up old fighter the only format Mir can take on the Nigerian is bjj
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: keanu on March 30, 2021, 02:01:49 PM
Francis' weakness is his cardio and lack of grappling skills. Stipe fought scared. Didn't try to do anything. No offense at all. He fought the perfect fight for Francis. At some point a well rounded heavyweight will take Francis to the ground and Francis will be exhausted. Of course I enjoy watching Francis KO people. Fans like a power puncher.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: ThisisOverload on March 30, 2021, 02:06:29 PM
Francis' weakness is his cardio and lack of grappling skills. Stipe fought scared. Didn't try to do anything. No offense at all. He fought the perfect fight for Francis. At some point a well rounded heavyweight will take Francis to the ground and Francis will be exhausted. Of course I enjoy watching Francis KO people. Fans like a power puncher.

I agree.

Stipe didn't look very good. Someone is going to have to get Francis on the ground and wear him out. No homo.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: AbrahamG on March 30, 2021, 04:07:04 PM
I agree.

Stipe didn't look very good. Someone is going to have to get Francis on the ground and wear him out. No homo.

I like that Francis stuffed the takedown attempt and landed calf kicks on Stjpe. It says here his fellow Afro-Frenchman Cyril Gane will be the one to derail the run. Unless Jon Jones gets to him first.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Matt on March 31, 2021, 02:19:08 AM
I wasn't entirely serious with the stfu comment. But honestly, who's on drugs and who isn't is tired. Stipe used to fight in the 240's. He's consciously  chosen to come in lighter in his past couple fights. Francis showed he's been putting in the work. Stuffed takedowns, leg kicks, etc. Also,  there's no credible reports of Francis skirting the system.

Ok, just wondering. Yeah - the USADA testing the UFC does now is legit, and that is evidenced by the fact that so many fighters, unfortunately, dropped off pretty significantly once it got implemented.

It does reduce the UFC's product, but I guess if people want steroid testing, so be it.

The Jon Jones "Picogram" scandal just goes to show how sensitive these tests are. The tests will probably eventually get so sensitive that people will test positive for steroid molecules hundreds of times smaller than picograms, from cycles literally done months or even a year or more earlier.

Presumably, on some extremely small level, steroids are still in a person's system much longer than traditional tests could test for them. Again, the tests are just getting so sensitive these days.

But "picograms" or not, if Jon Jones beats Francis Ngannou, I think we would have to call him the legit GOAT.

I think the way Jones sees it is something like this:

Jones beat a better Daniel Cormier than the DC who beat Stipe in their first fight, and went the distance against him in their third fight. So it stands to reason that Jones may think he could beat any version of Stipe. And that wouldn't be a unreasonable thought for Jones to hold, IMO.

So if Jones reasonably feels he is better than Stipe, he would then be reasonable to feel he could do better against Ngannou than Stipe did.

Although it's harder for me to predict how much Ngannou improved since the previous fight. What I think happened is that Ngannou and his team just told him to be patient with Stipe, and go for the knockout when it's available...but not to force It, like he did in the first round of their first fight.

So it may have just been a matter of Ngannou shifting to that gameplan, and fighting Stipe in a marathon, and not a sprint - as he did in their first fight, exhausting himself in the process, but still going the distance, which was impressive [and if I recall correctly, Ngannou's corner used towels to cool him off after rounds, rather than ice for some reason, which may have put him at a bit of a disadvantage].

That being said, I noticed his takedown defense was much improved - that really impressed me, especially given that Stipe is a tremendous wrestler, so Ngannou obviously worked on that.

So I think it's safe to say that Ngannou both came in with a better gameplan this time out, AND improved in some areas [specifically, takedown defense].

But he will lack one advantage fighting Jon Jones, which is that he has not fought Jones before, and can only get to know his fight style so well from watching tape digital recordings of his fights.

Jones is one year younger than Ngannou, and also has more miles. I do think Jones is somewhat on the decline too, as he isn't as dominant as he once was, while still winning fights, while Ngannou seems to be as good as ever - if not improving. He seems to have learned to be patient where he needs to be - NOT like he needs to be in most fights.

Lastly - if Jones weighs in at 205-lb, I'm assuming his competitive weight would be at least 225-lb...maybe even 235-lb, as there are middleweights who put on 30-lb by fight night [Paulo Costo and Yoel Romero - I would assume Like Rockhold as well. Michael Bisping competed against GSP at around 212-lb, which was a 27-lb increase from weigh-ins].

I think Jon Jones and Francis Ngannou are both 6'4". Maybe Jon Jones being thinner would give him the same advantage that being thinner gave Israel Adesanya [having sharp/bony legs, making for painful leg kicks].

Jones is more well-rounded, and I don't think anyone disputes that. He has more Octagon experience.

But if he is giving up 30-lb to Ngannou, and if Ngannou can evade takedowns and submissions, and just be patient...I could see another knockout win for him.

I don't mean to join the Ngannou hype train, but it's hard not to. I made a myriad of excuses for some of his other victories against big names [beating former top champions, who were weathered veterans by the time Ngannou had a shot at them].

This is all speculation, obviously. I just can't write Ngannou off after that victory against Stipe.

Very few fighters knock fighters out cold like that. The man is an incredibly power puncher, and only needs to hit a fighter once to win the fight.

If Jones does beat Ngannou, I would consider him the all-time GOAT in the UFC - maybe in MMA, period - of any weight class.

All the GSP and Khabib GOAT talk is fine...keeping in mind their weight class, that is. But weight is only an advantage up to around 225-lb, IMO [Igor Vovchanchyn from the old Pride days comes to mind], so I would be very interested in seeing that fight.

Sorry for the novel. You just touched on some good points I wanted to also address. I'm glad this thread got posted, and people are paying Ngannou the respect he has now definitely earned.

As for Ngannou using steroids...the USADA testing is very good...but if he spends any time in Cameroon, would they go there and test him? GSP said on Joe Rogan's podcast in 2018 that fighters can still get around the tests...so...I'd be curious if he's on. IMO, he LOOKS like he is on. But he is a genetic freak...so who knows?

Stipe's physique looked attainable drug-free for a lifetime athlete. But again, this is just speculation on my part.

Glad to see you follow the UFC, Abraham.

I sort of follow bodybuilding less and less now, due to so many bodybuilders dying. It's a bit depressing, knowing I had a hand in encouraging it, in light of those young deaths.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Matt on March 31, 2021, 02:43:15 AM
Every other athlete is a once in a generation athlete these days. That term gets thrown around only second to the stupid overhyped phrase “GOAT”

I agree that GOAT is definitely thrown around too much. Also, how can GSP be the GOAT, given that he can, what, maybe beat only the bottom 25% of heavyweights, if that?

Could GSP even beat the bottom 25% of heavyweights, even if he competed as a middleweight? He was only 191-lb in his fight with Bisping. That's up around 6- to 8-lb from his normal welterweight days. And he wasn't as lean. So ultimately, he was about the same, if you adjusted his body composition.

But something that The True Adonis said is that you will get stronger, even if you gain body fat. Just the extra mass itself is an advantage. Joe Rogan said Roy Nelson would have probably been only 185-lb if he came in ultra lean. Yet that body fat allowed him to compete at heavyweight.

But I just don't see GSP beating a majority of heavyweights even if GSP fought them at 185-lb. MAYBE in his prime, he could have beaten the bottom 50% of light-heavyweights...but that would probably be a 40-lb weight disparity on fight night - GSP weighed around 185-lb on fight night in his prime, with your average light-heavy being, what, 225-lb or more? So how can we call GSP the GOAT if he could be beaten be rafts of bigger guys, whose names most people wouldn't even know? Unless he could actually beat most heavyweights or light-heavies? Which I doubt.

So we can say GSP is the "Pound-For-Pound GOAT", I would say. And I think saying Jones tested positive for steroids does NOT rule him out as the actual GOAT, because GSP...well...look at the photo below from UFC 56, after he beat Sean Sherk [who was also juiced]. GSP just never tested positive, but in those days, fighters just peed in a cup, and had the samples disposed of after, untested.

Fighters who hesitated to give samples were probably tested, if that.

And Khabib...he's the lightweight GOAT, IMO. 🐐

As for the "once-in-a-generation athlete" comment...who else has had such devastating knockout power as Francis Ngannou in recent times?

I just can't recall any other UFC fighter winning by KO, and knocking guys out cold like that - especially heavyweights, and especially this last knockout with Stipe.

Just in terms of possessing that much power in his hands...Stipe is quite unlike anything I've seen in...well, forever, really.

Maybe I should put that another way: I think Ngannou is a once-in-a-generation power puncher. There were others up there - Johny Hendricks, among welterweights for example. But Francis just consistently knocks guys out cold. I just haven't seen anyone do that quite like that before, among UFC fighters.

I just feel like you know you're watching a special athlete seeing him fight. Not to compare his knockout power to that of Mike Tyson...but in both cases, you know you are seeing a special athlete, IMO.

Speaking of Tyson...seeing how well Ngannou has been doing relying solely on knockout power, I would have to think that Tyson would have done very well in the UFC, simply by learning minimal takedown defense.

Darren said Randy Couture said that he wouldn't have wanted to fight Tyson in the cage...I found that odd to hear at the time, but now I get it.

Devastating power punchers definitely do a lot of damage. Add minimal takedown defense or uppercuts thrown when the opposing fighter shoots on then...and I think the best boxers would do very well in the UFC [I'm pretty sure Darren agrees].

Makes me wonder how Tyson Fury would do against Francis Ngannou in the cage.

Go to the 41 second mark here to see GSP's pre-USADA physique after his win against Sherk [also attached in picture form below, but the video is higher quality resolution].

Does GSP look natural here?:

Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Matt on March 31, 2021, 04:02:29 AM
Once in a generation?

Juiced Overreem would absolutely shitkick juiced Ngannou like a redheaded step child.

Likewise to you, Les - we're all familiar with your biography here. No one is doubting your credentials or your resume. And you know I would never get out of line with you or try to 1-UP you in an area where you have considerably more expertise than I do. Doing that only makes the less knowledgeable person look foolish.

And you can confirm one of those points right out of the gate - Overeem was almost certainly off steroids in his fight against Ngannou. Not simply due to strict and consistent/regular steroid testing by USADA...but you could see it in his physique decline - especially evident in some fighters.

I think Francis Ngannou is a once-in-a-generation knockout artist. For combination strikes, and repeat heavy blows, and having more tools in his arsenal, etc, you are correct that juiced Overeem beats juiced Ngannou [IMO - and a pretty easy opinion to defend, I would say].

Beating an older, weathered, smaller Overeem with possible nagging injuries, and definitely many miles, no one can say that Ngannou beat Overeem at his best.

As for Francis Ngannou, I'm glad you also suspect/think [or even pretty much know with a great deal of confidence] that Ngannou is juiced. It's always nice to have a view that some deem to be controversial, only to have a resident expert in the topic, like yourself, feel the same way.

Some people just steadfastly stick to the idea that GSP never juiced, even though the photo attached above is completely clear evidence to me that he did. I'd bet money that he was on steroids - maybe he is just a pure genentic. I would guess he is both a generic freak AND on steroids. But I guess I can't be 100% certain...but that's what I suspect.

Ngannou is either an incredible genetic freak, or - Occam's Razor, the most parsimonious explanation - Ngannou is both an incredible genetic freak, and on steroids.

The steroids don't give him all that power in his hands - they highlight and amplify what is already tremendous power in his hands, which he would have without steroids, and being it up another level. The other guys could juice just as much, and still wouldn't possess that level of knockout power.

I agree that a juiced, horsemeat-eating Alistair Overoids could beat Francis NGH-annou. Alistair was much bigger and stronger in his horsemeat-eating, PED-using days, where he would hide in his gym's bathroom or catch the first flight out of the city to avoid USADA catching him to test him. 🤣 I think one or both of those things happened. 😂🤣

Overeem had a more rounded fight game and arsenal of tools. He was the same weight as Ngannou [263-lb], and an inch taller, and was more muscular, leaner, and stronger, while packing a heavy punch - not the one-punch knockout power of Ngannou, but he could repeatedly rain down VERY HEAVY shots, in rapid fire, without getting too tired.

Being that strong, with a more well-rounded fight game, I'd give that one to Overeem. But I guess Overeem is clean now - given how much he has shrunk.

I think Overeem just turned 41. I hope he retires soon.

I think it's a gas looking back at Tyson's old fights, and seeing how he was clearly on juice, as were so many others [Trevor Berbick and Evander Holyfield for example].

USADA did so a pretty thorough job of catching guys using steroids, but Joe Rogan had someone on his podcast talking about it, and Joe said that he didn't know how many fighters use steroids, but he repeated speculation that he heard that 40-60% of fighters use steroids. The rest just aren't hooked up with the proper chemists [steroid gurus, basically].

So the poor [honest] fighters who don't use PEDs, are ultimately put in an unfair situation having to fight those who are using, and beat the tests. And it's all because they aren't connected with people who can take care of this for them. And I imagine that some of them DO train drug-free, just out of pride and self-accomplisment knowing they are clean fighters who are fighting - in some cases beating - enhanced athletes. Michael Bisping seemed to take pride in this.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Matt on March 31, 2021, 04:17:21 AM
In their prime vs prime.

(Prime = Peak of their career, not the disgusting old phaggot)

 ;D ;D ;D

PS - sorry for the short posts. I don't know too much about the UFC or MMA.  :-\ :-X
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: MAXX on March 31, 2021, 04:24:47 AM
Likewise to you, Les - we're all familiar with your biography here. No one is doubting your credentials or your resume. And you know I would never get out of line with you or try to 1-UP you in an area where you have considerably more expertise than I do. Doing that only makes the less knowledgeable person look foolish.

And you can confirm one of those points right out of the gate - Overeem was almost certainly off steroids in his fight against Ngannou. Not simply due to strict and consistent/regular steroid testing by USADA...but you could see it in his physique decline - especially evident in some fighters.

I think Francis Ngannou is a once-in-a-generation knockout artist. For combination strikes, and repeat heavy blows, and having more tools in his arsenal, etc, you are correct that juiced Overeem beats juiced Ngannou [IMO - and a pretty easy opinion to defend, I would say].

Beating an older, weathered, smaller Overeem with possible nagging injuries, and definitely many miles, no one can say that Ngannou beat Overeem at his best.

As for Francis Ngannou, I'm glad you also suspect/think [or even pretty much know with a great deal of confidence] that Ngannou is juiced. It's always nice to have a view that some deem to be controversial, only to have a resident expert in the topic, like yourself, feel the same way.

Some people just steadfastly stick to the idea that GSP never juiced, even though the photo attached above is completely clear evidence to me that he did. I'd bet money that he was on steroids - maybe he is just a pure genentic. I would guess he is both a generic freak AND on steroids. But I guess I can't be 100% certain...but that's what I suspect.

Ngannou is either an incredible genetic freak, or - Occam's Razor, the most parsimonious explanation - Ngannou is both an incredible genetic freak, and on steroids.

The steroids don't give him all that power in his hands - they highlight and amplify what is already tremendous power in his hands, which he would have without steroids, and being it up another level. The other guys could juice just as much, and still wouldn't possess that level of knockout power.

I agree that a juiced, horsemeat-eating Alistair Overoids could beat Francis NGH-annou. Alistair was much bigger and stronger in his horsemeat-eating, PED-using days, where he would hide in his gym's bathroom or catch the first flight out of the city to avoid USADA catching him to test him. 🤣 I think one or both of those things happened. 😂🤣

Overeem had a more rounded fight game and arsenal of tools. He was the same weight as Ngannou [263-lb], and an inch taller, and was more muscular, leaner, and stronger, while packing a heavy punch - not the one-punch knockout power of Ngannou, but he could repeatedly rain down VERY HEAVY shots, in rapid fire, without getting too tired.

Being that strong, with a more well-rounded fight game, I'd give that one to Overeem. But I guess Overeem is clean now - given how much he has shrunk.

I think Overeem just turned 41. I hope he retires soon.

I think it's a gas looking back at Tyson's old fights, and seeing how he was clearly on juice, as were so many others [Trevor Berbick and Evander Holyfield for example].

USADA did so a pretty thorough job of catching guys using steroids, but Joe Rogan had someone on his podcast talking about it, and Joe said that he didn't know how many fighters use steroids, but he repeated speculation that he heard that 40-60% of fighters use steroids. The rest just aren't hooked up with the proper chemists [steroid gurus, basically].

So the poor [honest] fighters who don't use PEDs, are ultimately put in an unfair situation having to fight those who are using, and beat the tests. And it's all because they aren't connected with people who can take care of this for them. And I imagine that some of them DO train drug-free, just out of pride and self-accomplisment knowing they are clean fighters who are fighting - in some cases beating - enhanced athletes. Michael Bisping seemed to take pride in this.
Bisping was really impressive.

He defended his title against juided top fighters and with only one eye to add to that.




Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: pamith on April 04, 2021, 05:23:05 AM
A couple years? Isn’t he in his late 30s? He’s fighting the hands of time at this stage.

I watched an interview with Mark Coleman and he made a comment about today’s heavyweights don’t want to go to the ground, that there’s not enough wrestling and so on. I thought he was off base but looking at current state of HW maybe his point was valid.
His point is valid
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Matt on April 05, 2021, 01:18:35 AM
Bronx Tale?

LMFAO!!!!

How the F*CK did you figure that out? Hahahaha!!!

YES!

I wasn't joking though - I still meant it when I said that to you. It's just interesting you caught a reference to a 28-year-old movie like that - good stuff!

To anyone interested, start at the 3:15 mark, to see the part where I complimented AbrahamG by ripping off a Robert De Niro line from an Ironage movie he was in, in 1993:



 ;D
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Matt on April 05, 2021, 02:20:36 AM
This first bit is not related to this thread - just me addressing some moronic comment that King said previously. The other massive long part at the bottom addresses this thread. I put words in King's mouth here, but he basically actually said this [close enough]:

I wear a mask when I go out, when I'm not even sick, to "help people", despite no scientific evidence existing that asymptomatic spread is a significant percentage of COVID transmissions. But rather than educate myself on actual facts, I prefer watching TV and having an opinion given to me.

I'm also fat.

King - remember when you said I was fucked?

I may be many things, but at least I never said "I wear a mask to help people", when not even sick.  ;D

Ok, and how about all the decades prior to 2020 where you didn't do that? Did you not want to "help people", or do you just do whatever the TV tells you to do? LMAO @ you wearing a mask when not even sick, when asymptotic spread accounts for under 2% of all Covid-19 cases.

In Canada, 90% of deaths were among people aged 70+. 69% of deaths were in nursing homes alone!

And yet you - and rafts of morons like you - wore a mask [or still do] while not even sick, for a virus that is 2,807 TIMES as likely to kill someone over 80 as it is to kill someone under 40.

Yet I'm fucked?

Dude - YOU WEAR A FACE DIAPER WHILE NOT EVEN SICK BECAUSE THE TV TELLS YOU TO, AND YOU COMPLY LIKE A BITCH WITH NO HESITATION.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

So from now on:

We're cool. I'm going to take your individual posts for what they are, and ignore your past record.

You're also fat.

But I've decided that any time you respond to one of my posts by saying "Haha, you're fucked", or something like that, I'm going to remind Getbig who between the two of us is the tool who spent 2020 [and 2021?] wearing a mask while not even sick "to help people" [LMAO], despite no evidence showing that asymptomatic spread exists outside under 2% of cases, and that you do it for the sole reason because the TV tells you to do it.

Haha, would you put Booth's thong underwear over your head if the TV told you to?  ;D

By the way, post ONE scientific study showing that asymptomatic spread is a real thing worth worrying about.

Oh wait - you don't form your views based on empirical evidence, you turn on the TV to have views given to you.

Did you seriously wear a mask for over a year now while NOT SICK, just because the TV told you to? LOL!!!!!!!

And I'm fucked? Dude, I'm not the DUMBASS who's been wearing a mask for over a year while not even sick, haha.

Imagine if someone wearing a Hazmat suit to not spread a virus he DIDN'T EVEN HAVE called you fucked? Wouldn't you be like "Is this fucking idiot for real?"

Aren't you Fat Alex23?

...

This part of my reply here is related to this thread:


He just needs the weight/strength to do it.

Anyway, regarding your point [quoted above] on Jon Jones gaining strength - Jones has deadlifted 605-lb, and bench pressed 350-lb. So he is very strong. He was likely on steroids when he hit those lifts, so I'm not sure how much he is lifting lately. But he was probably the strongest UFC fighter on his weight class at the time, and one of the strongest UFC fighters ever. Brock Lesnar was said to bench press 475-lb, and that is all the more impressive to me given that he has an 81" reach.

As for Jon Jones, his strength has probably declined now that he is presumably clean - which I believe he is, given that he has been passing steroid tests. I'm not sure if he is still using cocaine and partying - hopefully not. He is a year younger than Francis Ngannou, but has more miles on his body than Ngannou does.

To your point regarding Jones having to put on weight:

I think that Mike Tyson and Igor Vovchanchyn, among others, proved that you do not need to be over 220- to 230-lb to be the best/toughest fighter in the world.

Tyson's heaviest weight was around 218-lb. I'm not sure if he ever fought at 220+, but if he did - he would have been NARROWLY over that...maybe 222-lb max in a fight, but none that I recall. Igor Vovchanchyn fought between 220- to 230-lb at 5'8". Maybe 5'8" and 225-lb. And he beat Mark Kerr twice [the first controversially, but not the second], who was 6'3", and was a juiced 260-lb at the time of those fights.

So I think as far as body weight offering an advantage, that advantage "maxes out" at some point. And I think the 220- to 230-lb range is when that happens, beyond which, body weight alone doesn't matter, even if a 225-lb fighter is fighting a 450-lb fighter. Basically, because fighters trade off speed and stamina for power as they get heavier.

Also, watching the fight between Israel Adesanya and Paulo Costa [where Israel had gyno], Paulo was lean and jacked, probably weighing around 215-lb on the night of the fight, at 6'1" tall.

Contrast that to [as Costa called him], the "skinny clown" Israel Adesanya, who at 6'4", probably competes closer to his weigh-in weight of 185-lb.

Even if Adesanya was 6'4" and 200-lb, that's a far cry from 6'1" and 215-lb...and Costa was likely the leaner one of the two [and, ironically, the cleaner one, as Adesanya had gyno].

It's possible that Jon Jones would have the same advantage, taking out Ngannou's legs with stinging leg kicks from bony legs.

But it's hard to say.

I don't think Jon Jones should be putting on weight just for the sake of doing it, at this stage in the game. I think he should come in at a normal big weight/size for him, but not to go overboard. Jones beat Cormier rather easily, and Cormier beat Miocic faster than Ngannou beat Miocic, and Miocic needed the experience with Miocic in their first fight in order to formulate a winning gameplan to beat him the second time out.

It would seem to me that "on paper", Jones could beat Ngannou, but that Jones would have to take it seriously, and devise a proper gameplan. That's how Ngannou beat Miocic the second time, and I don't think anyone should fight Ngannou thinking they will beat him without a gameplan.

If Jones has a good gameplan coming in, I think the Ngannou fight is quite winnable.

The only thing I'm not taking into consideration here is miles. Jones does have more miles, due to years of high-level fighting...whereas Ngannou's fights often end with victories without even going to the 2nd round.

That would be the reason I think Ngannou stands a legitimate chance of beating Jones - as Ngannou is more fresh, despite being a year older.

A prime Jones could beat Ngannou, IMO, but I'm not so sure how close the Jones of today is to his prime.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Matt on April 05, 2021, 02:31:28 AM
Frank Mir could take him.
Seriously though, Heavyweights need to get better at wrestling and submissions. Stipe proved that with his decision win against Ngannou in the first fight.

Few (if any) can match his punching power. It will take a guy with above average power, and high level collegiate wrestling, to beat Francis (minus a lucky punch that can happen to anyone)

A heavyweight with great submission skills (does one exist  ???) Would be hard to beat.

If Jon Jones can gain enough weight (part of Stipe's problem) he has the skills to take Ngannou down multiple times, and the submissions to take him out.

He just needs the weight/strength to do it.

The problem with Ngannou, is he has superhero power. Nobody can take a flush shot from that man, most get hurt by getting clipped. That's what makes him so dangerous  and exciting to watch.

You're also fat.

FYI, we're cool now.

But you're also fat.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Kwon on April 05, 2021, 02:48:49 AM
You're also fat.

FYI, we're cool now.

But you're also fat.

At least he isn't an alcoholic or similar
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: AbrahamG on April 05, 2021, 07:26:38 AM
LMFAO!!!!

How the F*CK did you figure that out? Hahahaha!!!

YES!

I wasn't joking though - I still meant it when I said that to you. It's just interesting you caught a reference to a 28-year-old movie like that - good stuff!

To anyone interested, start at the 3:15 mark, to see the part where I complimented AbrahamG by ripping off a Robert De Niro line from an Ironage movie he was in, in 1993:



 ;D

Thanks Matt. Appreciate the sentiment. That is a great movie. The look on her face when "C" calls her brother a "N" is priceless.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: King Shizzo on April 05, 2021, 09:52:20 AM
You're also fat.

FYI, we're cool now.

But you're also fat.
Was that funny to you?
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Kwon on April 05, 2021, 10:47:12 AM
This first bit is not related to this thread - just me addressing some moronic comment that King said previously. The other massive long part at the bottom addresses this thread. I put words in King's mouth here, but he basically actually said this [close enough]:

King - remember when you said I was fucked?

I may be many things, but at least I never said "I wear a mask to help people", when not even sick.  ;D

Ok, and how about all the decades prior to 2020 where you didn't do that? Did you not want to "help people", or do you just do whatever the TV tells you to do? LMAO @ you wearing a mask when not even sick, when asymptotic spread accounts for under 2% of all Covid-19 cases.

In Canada, 90% of deaths were among people aged 70+. 69% of deaths were in nursing homes alone!

And yet you - and rafts of morons like you - wore a mask [or still do] while not even sick, for a virus that is 2,807 TIMES as likely to kill someone over 80 as it is to kill someone under 40.

Yet I'm fucked?

Dude - YOU WEAR A FACE DIAPER WHILE NOT EVEN SICK BECAUSE THE TV TELLS YOU TO, AND YOU COMPLY LIKE A BITCH WITH NO HESITATION.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

So from now on:

We're cool. I'm going to take your individual posts for what they are, and ignore your past record.

You're also fat.

But I've decided that any time you respond to one of my posts by saying "Haha, you're fucked", or something like that, I'm going to remind Getbig who between the two of us is the tool who spent 2020 [and 2021?] wearing a mask while not even sick "to help people" [LMAO], despite no evidence showing that asymptomatic spread exists outside under 2% of cases, and that you do it for the sole reason because the TV tells you to do it.

Haha, would you put Booth's thong underwear over your head if the TV told you to?  ;D

By the way, post ONE scientific study showing that asymptomatic spread is a real thing worth worrying about.

Oh wait - you don't form your views based on empirical evidence, you turn on the TV to have views given to you.

Did you seriously wear a mask for over a year now while NOT SICK, just because the TV told you to? LOL!!!!!!!

And I'm fucked? Dude, I'm not the DUMBASS who's been wearing a mask for over a year while not even sick, haha.

Imagine if someone wearing a Hazmat suit to not spread a virus he DIDN'T EVEN HAVE called you fucked? Wouldn't you be like "Is this fucking idiot for real?"

Aren't you Fat Alex23?

...

This part of my reply here is related to this thread:


Anyway, regarding your point [quoted above] on Jon Jones gaining strength - Jones has deadlifted 605-lb, and bench pressed 350-lb. So he is very strong. He was likely on steroids when he hit those lifts, so I'm not sure how much he is lifting lately. But he was probably the strongest UFC fighter on his weight class at the time, and one of the strongest UFC fighters ever. Brock Lesnar was said to bench press 475-lb, and that is all the more impressive to me given that he has an 81" reach.

As for Jon Jones, his strength has probably declined now that he is presumably clean - which I believe he is, given that he has been passing steroid tests. I'm not sure if he is still using cocaine and partying - hopefully not. He is a year younger than Francis Ngannou, but has more miles on his body than Ngannou does.

To your point regarding Jones having to put on weight:

I think that Mike Tyson and Igor Vovchanchyn, among others, proved that you do not need to be over 220- to 230-lb to be the best/toughest fighter in the world.

Tyson's heaviest weight was around 218-lb. I'm not sure if he ever fought at 220+, but if he did - he would have been NARROWLY over that...maybe 222-lb max in a fight, but none that I recall. Igor Vovchanchyn fought between 220- to 230-lb at 5'8". Maybe 5'8" and 225-lb. And he beat Mark Kerr twice [the first controversially, but not the second], who was 6'3", and was a juiced 260-lb at the time of those fights.

So I think as far as body weight offering an advantage, that advantage "maxes out" at some point. And I think the 220- to 230-lb range is when that happens, beyond which, body weight alone doesn't matter, even if a 225-lb fighter is fighting a 450-lb fighter. Basically, because fighters trade off speed and stamina for power as they get heavier.

Also, watching the fight between Israel Adesanya and Paulo Costa [where Israel had gyno], Paulo was lean and jacked, probably weighing around 215-lb on the night of the fight, at 6'1" tall.

Contrast that to [as Costa called him], the "skinny clown" Israel Adesanya, who at 6'4", probably competes closer to his weigh-in weight of 185-lb.

Even if Adesanya was 6'4" and 200-lb, that's a far cry from 6'1" and 215-lb...and Costa was likely the leaner one of the two [and, ironically, the cleaner one, as Adesanya had gyno].

It's possible that Jon Jones would have the same advantage, taking out Ngannou's legs with stinging leg kicks from bony legs.

But it's hard to say.

I don't think Jon Jones should be putting on weight just for the sake of doing it, at this stage in the game. I think he should come in at a normal big weight/size for him, but not to go overboard. Jones beat Cormier rather easily, and Cormier beat Miocic faster than Ngannou beat Miocic, and Miocic needed the experience with Miocic in their first fight in order to formulate a winning gameplan to beat him the second time out.

It would seem to me that "on paper", Jones could beat Ngannou, but that Jones would have to take it seriously, and devise a proper gameplan. That's how Ngannou beat Miocic the second time, and I don't think anyone should fight Ngannou thinking they will beat him without a gameplan.

If Jones has a good gameplan coming in, I think the Ngannou fight is quite winnable.

The only thing I'm not taking into consideration here is miles. Jones does have more miles, due to years of high-level fighting...whereas Ngannou's fights often end with victories without even going to the 2nd round.

That would be the reason I think Ngannou stands a legitimate chance of beating Jones - as Ngannou is more fresh, despite being a year older.

A prime Jones could beat Ngannou, IMO, but I'm not so sure how close the Jones of today is to his prime.

FULLY agree on this Matty! :D
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: joswift on April 05, 2021, 10:54:24 AM
This first bit is not related to this thread - just me addressing some moronic comment that King said previously. The other massive long part at the bottom addresses this thread. I put words in King's mouth here, but he basically actually said this [close enough]:

King - remember when you said I was fucked?

I may be many things, but at least I never said "I wear a mask to help people", when not even sick.  ;D

Ok, and how about all the decades prior to 2020 where you didn't do that? Did you not want to "help people", or do you just do whatever the TV tells you to do? LMAO @ you wearing a mask when not even sick, when asymptotic spread accounts for under 2% of all Covid-19 cases.

In Canada, 90% of deaths were among people aged 70+. 69% of deaths were in nursing homes alone!

And yet you - and rafts of morons like you - wore a mask [or still do] while not even sick, for a virus that is 2,807 TIMES as likely to kill someone over 80 as it is to kill someone under 40.

Yet I'm fucked?

Dude - YOU WEAR A FACE DIAPER WHILE NOT EVEN SICK BECAUSE THE TV TELLS YOU TO, AND YOU COMPLY LIKE A BITCH WITH NO HESITATION.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

So from now on:

We're cool. I'm going to take your individual posts for what they are, and ignore your past record.

You're also fat.

But I've decided that any time you respond to one of my posts by saying "Haha, you're fucked", or something like that, I'm going to remind Getbig who between the two of us is the tool who spent 2020 [and 2021?] wearing a mask while not even sick "to help people" [LMAO], despite no evidence showing that asymptomatic spread exists outside under 2% of cases, and that you do it for the sole reason because the TV tells you to do it.

Haha, would you put Booth's thong underwear over your head if the TV told you to?  ;D

By the way, post ONE scientific study showing that asymptomatic spread is a real thing worth worrying about.

Oh wait - you don't form your views based on empirical evidence, you turn on the TV to have views given to you.

Did you seriously wear a mask for over a year now while NOT SICK, just because the TV told you to? LOL!!!!!!!

And I'm fucked? Dude, I'm not the DUMBASS who's been wearing a mask for over a year while not even sick, haha.

Imagine if someone wearing a Hazmat suit to not spread a virus he DIDN'T EVEN HAVE called you fucked? Wouldn't you be like "Is this fucking idiot for real?"

Aren't you Fat Alex23?

...

This part of my reply here is related to this thread:


Anyway, regarding your point [quoted above] on Jon Jones gaining strength - Jones has deadlifted 605-lb, and bench pressed 350-lb. So he is very strong. He was likely on steroids when he hit those lifts, so I'm not sure how much he is lifting lately. But he was probably the strongest UFC fighter on his weight class at the time, and one of the strongest UFC fighters ever. Brock Lesnar was said to bench press 475-lb, and that is all the more impressive to me given that he has an 81" reach.

As for Jon Jones, his strength has probably declined now that he is presumably clean - which I believe he is, given that he has been passing steroid tests. I'm not sure if he is still using cocaine and partying - hopefully not. He is a year younger than Francis Ngannou, but has more miles on his body than Ngannou does.

To your point regarding Jones having to put on weight:

I think that Mike Tyson and Igor Vovchanchyn, among others, proved that you do not need to be over 220- to 230-lb to be the best/toughest fighter in the world.

Tyson's heaviest weight was around 218-lb. I'm not sure if he ever fought at 220+, but if he did - he would have been NARROWLY over that...maybe 222-lb max in a fight, but none that I recall. Igor Vovchanchyn fought between 220- to 230-lb at 5'8". Maybe 5'8" and 225-lb. And he beat Mark Kerr twice [the first controversially, but not the second], who was 6'3", and was a juiced 260-lb at the time of those fights.

So I think as far as body weight offering an advantage, that advantage "maxes out" at some point. And I think the 220- to 230-lb range is when that happens, beyond which, body weight alone doesn't matter, even if a 225-lb fighter is fighting a 450-lb fighter. Basically, because fighters trade off speed and stamina for power as they get heavier.

Also, watching the fight between Israel Adesanya and Paulo Costa [where Israel had gyno], Paulo was lean and jacked, probably weighing around 215-lb on the night of the fight, at 6'1" tall.

Contrast that to [as Costa called him], the "skinny clown" Israel Adesanya, who at 6'4", probably competes closer to his weigh-in weight of 185-lb.

Even if Adesanya was 6'4" and 200-lb, that's a far cry from 6'1" and 215-lb...and Costa was likely the leaner one of the two [and, ironically, the cleaner one, as Adesanya had gyno].

It's possible that Jon Jones would have the same advantage, taking out Ngannou's legs with stinging leg kicks from bony legs.

But it's hard to say.

I don't think Jon Jones should be putting on weight just for the sake of doing it, at this stage in the game. I think he should come in at a normal big weight/size for him, but not to go overboard. Jones beat Cormier rather easily, and Cormier beat Miocic faster than Ngannou beat Miocic, and Miocic needed the experience with Miocic in their first fight in order to formulate a winning gameplan to beat him the second time out.

It would seem to me that "on paper", Jones could beat Ngannou, but that Jones would have to take it seriously, and devise a proper gameplan. That's how Ngannou beat Miocic the second time, and I don't think anyone should fight Ngannou thinking they will beat him without a gameplan.

If Jones has a good gameplan coming in, I think the Ngannou fight is quite winnable.

The only thing I'm not taking into consideration here is miles. Jones does have more miles, due to years of high-level fighting...whereas Ngannou's fights often end with victories without even going to the 2nd round.

That would be the reason I think Ngannou stands a legitimate chance of beating Jones - as Ngannou is more fresh, despite being a year older.

A prime Jones could beat Ngannou, IMO, but I'm not so sure how close the Jones of today is to his prime.

there you go just jumping in and writing down the first thing that comes into your head without thinking it through..
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: Les Grossman on April 05, 2021, 11:30:28 AM
Was that funny to you?

It made me laugh.

Corky giving Fatzzo the public beatdown.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: AbrahamG on April 05, 2021, 12:17:59 PM
It made me laugh.

Corky giving Fatzzo the public beatdown.

Corky! Lmfao.
Title: Re: Francis Ngannou
Post by: King Shizzo on April 05, 2021, 04:33:45 PM
This first bit is not related to this thread - just me addressing some moronic comment that King said previously. The other massive long part at the bottom addresses this thread. I put words in King's mouth here, but he basically actually said this [close enough]:

King - remember when you said I was fucked?

I may be many things, but at least I never said "I wear a mask to help people", when not even sick.  ;D

Ok, and how about all the decades prior to 2020 where you didn't do that? Did you not want to "help people", or do you just do whatever the TV tells you to do? LMAO @ you wearing a mask when not even sick, when asymptotic spread accounts for under 2% of all Covid-19 cases.

In Canada, 90% of deaths were among people aged 70+. 69% of deaths were in nursing homes alone!

And yet you - and rafts of morons like you - wore a mask [or still do] while not even sick, for a virus that is 2,807 TIMES as likely to kill someone over 80 as it is to kill someone under 40.

Yet I'm fucked?

Dude - YOU WEAR A FACE DIAPER WHILE NOT EVEN SICK BECAUSE THE TV TELLS YOU TO, AND YOU COMPLY LIKE A BITCH WITH NO HESITATION.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

So from now on:

We're cool. I'm going to take your individual posts for what they are, and ignore your past record.

You're also fat.

But I've decided that any time you respond to one of my posts by saying "Haha, you're fucked", or something like that, I'm going to remind Getbig who between the two of us is the tool who spent 2020 [and 2021?] wearing a mask while not even sick "to help people" [LMAO], despite no evidence showing that asymptomatic spread exists outside under 2% of cases, and that you do it for the sole reason because the TV tells you to do it.

Haha, would you put Booth's thong underwear over your head if the TV told you to?  ;D

By the way, post ONE scientific study showing that asymptomatic spread is a real thing worth worrying about.

Oh wait - you don't form your views based on empirical evidence, you turn on the TV to have views given to you.

Did you seriously wear a mask for over a year now while NOT SICK, just because the TV told you to? LOL!!!!!!!

And I'm fucked? Dude, I'm not the DUMBASS who's been wearing a mask for over a year while not even sick, haha.

Imagine if someone wearing a Hazmat suit to not spread a virus he DIDN'T EVEN HAVE called you fucked? Wouldn't you be like "Is this fucking idiot for real?"

Aren't you Fat Alex23?

...

This part of my reply here is related to this thread:


Anyway, regarding your point [quoted above] on Jon Jones gaining strength - Jones has deadlifted 605-lb, and bench pressed 350-lb. So he is very strong. He was likely on steroids when he hit those lifts, so I'm not sure how much he is lifting lately. But he was probably the strongest UFC fighter on his weight class at the time, and one of the strongest UFC fighters ever. Brock Lesnar was said to bench press 475-lb, and that is all the more impressive to me given that he has an 81" reach.

As for Jon Jones, his strength has probably declined now that he is presumably clean - which I believe he is, given that he has been passing steroid tests. I'm not sure if he is still using cocaine and partying - hopefully not. He is a year younger than Francis Ngannou, but has more miles on his body than Ngannou does.

To your point regarding Jones having to put on weight:

I think that Mike Tyson and Igor Vovchanchyn, among others, proved that you do not need to be over 220- to 230-lb to be the best/toughest fighter in the world.

Tyson's heaviest weight was around 218-lb. I'm not sure if he ever fought at 220+, but if he did - he would have been NARROWLY over that...maybe 222-lb max in a fight, but none that I recall. Igor Vovchanchyn fought between 220- to 230-lb at 5'8". Maybe 5'8" and 225-lb. And he beat Mark Kerr twice [the first controversially, but not the second], who was 6'3", and was a juiced 260-lb at the time of those fights.

So I think as far as body weight offering an advantage, that advantage "maxes out" at some point. And I think the 220- to 230-lb range is when that happens, beyond which, body weight alone doesn't matter, even if a 225-lb fighter is fighting a 450-lb fighter. Basically, because fighters trade off speed and stamina for power as they get heavier.

Also, watching the fight between Israel Adesanya and Paulo Costa [where Israel had gyno], Paulo was lean and jacked, probably weighing around 215-lb on the night of the fight, at 6'1" tall.

Contrast that to [as Costa called him], the "skinny clown" Israel Adesanya, who at 6'4", probably competes closer to his weigh-in weight of 185-lb.

Even if Adesanya was 6'4" and 200-lb, that's a far cry from 6'1" and 215-lb...and Costa was likely the leaner one of the two [and, ironically, the cleaner one, as Adesanya had gyno].

It's possible that Jon Jones would have the same advantage, taking out Ngannou's legs with stinging leg kicks from bony legs.

But it's hard to say.

I don't think Jon Jones should be putting on weight just for the sake of doing it, at this stage in the game. I think he should come in at a normal big weight/size for him, but not to go overboard. Jones beat Cormier rather easily, and Cormier beat Miocic faster than Ngannou beat Miocic, and Miocic needed the experience with Miocic in their first fight in order to formulate a winning gameplan to beat him the second time out.

It would seem to me that "on paper", Jones could beat Ngannou, but that Jones would have to take it seriously, and devise a proper gameplan. That's how Ngannou beat Miocic the second time, and I don't think anyone should fight Ngannou thinking they will beat him without a gameplan.

If Jones has a good gameplan coming in, I think the Ngannou fight is quite winnable.

The only thing I'm not taking into consideration here is miles. Jones does have more miles, due to years of high-level fighting...whereas Ngannou's fights often end with victories without even going to the 2nd round.

That would be the reason I think Ngannou stands a legitimate chance of beating Jones - as Ngannou is more fresh, despite being a year older.

A prime Jones could beat Ngannou, IMO, but I'm not so sure how close the Jones of today is to his prime.
I'm sorry for your loss.

Whores don't equal a prophecy.