Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Phantom Spunker on March 23, 2022, 07:35:26 AM
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Is it a total nightmare? Specifically, could the average spaz (e.g. me) fix things like damp internal walls, replace floors, and maybe do some roof tiling? Can I realistically just YouTube it and give it a go or will I end up spending a fortune?
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I've done a ton of it.
If you have the skills to DIY then it can work but if not hiring all that work out can kill you.
Yes, you can learn from Youtube and practice on your own house. You will need to buy or rent the requisite tools.
It depends on what you mean by "renovating".
Some things are pretty easy but some things require skill and experience.
Know thyself.
I can do plumbing, electrical, drywalling, painting, flooring, roofing, basic carpentry which I learned on the job from others many years ago.
However, there are some things I won't do because it's a pain in the azz and sometimes dangerous. I'm not going up 40 feet on a roof for example at my age although I did it 30 years ago.
Buying a house that needs some drywall and painting cosmetics is far away from getting involved in fixing structural issues or spending big bucks on major repairs that require licensed professionals like HVAC or upgrading a house circuit panel.
So, before you buy know what the problems are. Don't be surprised when that 25 year old furnace or roof craps out and you have to shell out $10,000-
$15,000 or $3000 to update the outdated electric service.
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one thing Id be weary of is damp wood/walls - specially mold/mildew - that shit can ruin a home as well as make you sick - I grew herb out of my house once and we build a room , carpentry, dry wall, small electrical work - I can tell you the right tools make a huge diff - like using an impact driver instead of a drill
if you know your shit and your house isn't too ffckd up Id go fro it - did Evan centopranoi renovate his house like that ??
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Totally doable. But. Correctly assessing the extent of the work required, budgeting for it, and seeing that it's reflected in the sale price is the art.
Materials are expensive these days, and availability problems are common.
Women, in my experience, don't deal well with living in a building site. They underestimate the time it will take and overestimate their tolerance for it. Your girl may vary.
I have a strong trade background. Let me know if you have questions.
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Thanks, guys.
So, it's a house I'm looking at just now online. It's back home, in an area I love, and it's twenty grand cheaper than its estimated value in anticipation of the repairs it needs. All repairs are Grade 2, meaning nothing urgent but will require future attention. I like the idea of getting it to rent it out, and I could spend a few months redecorating and carrying out some simple repairs. Girlfriend wouldn't have to stay but would probably love to do it up with me (total weirdo).
I'd be fine with all the painting, garden work, etc. However, I'm well aware that a lot of the work is carried out by trained professionals - which I'm not. The specific issues which I could see myself totally fucking up are 'internal joinery and kitchen fittings', internal wall dampness, and replacing 'corroded rainwater fittings'. I'd also have to pay professionals to fix some plumbing issues.
I'm talking myself out of this as I write.
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You wouldn't want me renovating a house.
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You wouldn't want me renovating a house.
You're invited to the sleepover when it's finished.
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Is it a total nightmare? Specifically, could the average spaz (e.g. me) fix things like damp internal walls, replace floors, and maybe do some roof tiling? Can I realistically just YouTube it and give it a go or will I end up spending a fortune?
If you have the time you can do almost anything. Most of it is labor intensive and learning as you go. For me I learned a lot of techniques I would use next time. It was work but it was an experience I mostly enjoyed.
Flooring and fixing walls doesn’t require much skill, just effort. What’s the cause of damp internal walls exterior moisture, leaky pipes? I can’t speak to roof tilting.
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If you have the time you can do almost anything. Most of it is labor intensive and learning as you go. For me I learned a lot of techniques I would use next time. It was work but it was an experience I mostly enjoyed.
Flooring and fixing walls doesn’t require much skill, just effort. What’s the cause of damp internal walls exterior moisture, leaky pipes? I can’t speak to roof tilting.
The good thing is I can have the time to do it. I just worry it's outside of my abilities and I'll end up spending a load of money. There's some nice flats in the same area which might be a better option for renting out to students and they don't require anything other than decorating. But, a small house would probably be better for the long-term, and I'd get more reliable tenants, I assume. Can't see anything written about the cause of dampness, though it's a fairly old house. I'll need to arrange a viewing and get back there.
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I do this full time, self employed. Based off what you've written, sounds like a mess.
Ideal home for a beginner is a well-maintained but outdated house, where the current owners can't be bothered or don't have the funds to renovate. Yours is not, so who knows what horrors lurk behind those walls
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Beyond skills, or at least being competent enough to grasp how to videos, it helps to understand what is hidden, underneath the exterior. For example…..your wet drywall could turn into insulation, likely, and sheathing/exterior finish. It could be the roof is hosed. If you know someone in the trades have them walk the property with you and point out the the pitfalls. Paying a property/dwelling inspector to scope it out would be another alternative
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Yeah, you guys are right. Too many unknowns and too much to take on. Fuck that. I like the idea but the reality will just be a headache. There's other, safer options.
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Being a landlord is a whole 'nother area of which I think you have no experience. An even worse idea is being an absentee landlord.
Combine that with no handyman skills and you have a future scenario of lots of sleepless nights ahead of you.
My opinions and other may disagree.
Unless this is a house for you to live in just put your money into your retirement plan in a very low expense total market equity index fund.
You'll be farther ahead with no headaches.
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Being a landlord is a whole 'nother area of which I think you have no experience. An even worse idea is being an absentee landlord.
Combine that with no handyman skills and you have a future scenario of lots of sleepless nights ahead of you.
My opinions and other may disagree.
Unless this is a house for you to live in just put your money into your retirement plan in a very low expense total market equity index fund.
You'll be farther ahead with no headaches.
I flipped houses for 10 years and still have 3 rental houses in Texas and NM.
If you don't have the skills and the tools it's a bad idea.
Lucky for me i have a cousin who built houses for almost 30 years. He helped me with everything and did 75% of the work.
It was still a nightmare.
Scope creep is real and things end up costing way more than anticipated. I used to add a 30% contingency to all the work i planned for the house, and i overran that most of the time.
If you buy a house that needs simple updates and live in it, that's going to be better as long as you are ok living in an unfinished house. Like many said already, it gets old fast.
With the supply issues now it's hard to get a contractor to get anything done on time.
I have a rental in southern NM that the tenants just left in December. I hired a contractor to replace the wood floors and re-tile the entire house. Replaced 2 windows and added a backsplash in the kitchen.
They said it would take 10-15 business days.
It took over 3 months.
That's 3 months of rent i missed out on.
I keep my rentals because they are paid off and i can sell them for a huge profit in 10-15 years.
But having been in this racket for over 15 years i tell people to stay away.
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I flipped houses for 10 years and still have 3 rental houses in Texas and NM.
If you don't have the skills and the tools it's a bad idea.
Lucky for me i have a cousin who built houses for almost 30 years. He helped me with everything and did 75% of the work.
It was still a nightmare.
Scope creep is real and things end up costing way more than anticipated. I used to add a 30% contingency to all the work i planned for the house, and i overran that most of the time.
If you buy a house that needs simple updates and live in it, that's going to be better as long as you are ok living in an unfinished house. Like many said already, it gets old fast.
With the supply issues now it's hard to get a contractor to get anything done on time.
I have a rental in southern NM that the tenants just left in December. I hired a contractor to replace the wood floors and re-tile the entire house. Replaced 2 windows and added a backsplash in the kitchen.
They said it would take 10-15 business days.
It took over 3 months.
That's 3 months of rent i missed out on.
I keep my rentals because they are paid off and i can sell them for a huge profit in 10-15 years.
But having been in this racket for over 15 years i tell people to stay away.
I understand you completely TIO.
It takes some balls to keep at it.
It's a business.
I did it for 25 years and when I sold the last property it was like a weight came off me.
Huge stress at times.
Lots of valuable experiences but bad ones too along the way.
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I'd never buy something I hadn't seen irl. That said, roof plumbing issues means moisture at the foundation, so maybe your moisture issues all go away once rainwater is appropriately directed.
Idk if it's footed slab foundation or stumps & crawlspace but foundational and structural integrity would be my main concern. I'd bring my laser (which casts a plane, not just a point) and check floors for subsidence. Bigass cracks in the walls justify checking that walls are plumb. Check roofing for obvious saddles and get in the roofspace (and crawlspace if it's there) to look for termites. Even if their treatment schedule is up to date, Termidor is wildly expensive, so dilute application and poor practices are common.
Light millwork is easy enough. You'll need a mitre saw and a pin gun, aka brad nailer. I like my paslode which doesn't need a compressor and hose. Drywall is easy although leveling ceilings will want a laser, which you could just rent. You can bridge a bit to keep walls and ceilings true without playing carpenter if there are framing issues. Rainwater fittings are probably prefabricated in the US, but mitreing gutters, fascia, and downspouts is something you'll figure out fine unless you've got something crazy upmarket like copper. It's probably just galv and PVC. Painting is 80% patience and diligence during prep.
Rainwater and greywater tanks are something to consider during reno.
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Being a landlord is a whole 'nother area of which I think you have no experience. An even worse idea is being an absentee landlord.
Combine that with no handyman skills and you have a future scenario of lots of sleepless nights ahead of you.
My opinions and other may disagree.
Unless this is a house for you to live in just put your money into your retirement plan in a very low expense total market equity index fund.
You'll be farther ahead with no headaches.
Correct, yeah. I've managed programmes and set locations up/ran them abroad, so I don't think I'd struggle with the landlord side of things, providing I'm not always away, but it's the DIY stuff I think I need to be wary of, and not fucking myself over by taking on something that needs a lot of expertise. I'd like to slow things down and spend more time at home, and feel like I could probably take on a few rentals. I'd need to sit down with professionals to really sketch it all out, but it's good hearing from people who've actually done it.
So, massive pain in the ass to actually do, then? I'll need to read up more on index funds - my knowledge is limited.
I flipped houses for 10 years and still have 3 rental houses in Texas and NM.
If you don't have the skills and the tools it's a bad idea.
Lucky for me i have a cousin who built houses for almost 30 years. He helped me with everything and did 75% of the work.
It was still a nightmare.
Scope creep is real and things end up costing way more than anticipated. I used to add a 30% contingency to all the work i planned for the house, and i overran that most of the time.
If you buy a house that needs simple updates and live in it, that's going to be better as long as you are ok living in an unfinished house. Like many said already, it gets old fast.
With the supply issues now it's hard to get a contractor to get anything done on time.
I have a rental in southern NM that the tenants just left in December. I hired a contractor to replace the wood floors and re-tile the entire house. Replaced 2 windows and added a backsplash in the kitchen.
They said it would take 10-15 business days.
It took over 3 months.
That's 3 months of rent i missed out on.
I keep my rentals because they are paid off and i can sell them for a huge profit in 10-15 years.
But having been in this racket for over 15 years i tell people to stay away.
Thanks, TiO. These are the kind of things I'm worried about. I don't have the skills, so it would have to be property that doesn't require a lot done to it, and as others say, maybe there's better investments out there.
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Also, imo, "building inspectors" are one of the biggest scams out there. Maybe it's different in the US. Afaik, they shoulder no liability at all and their useless opinions, which you are paying for, are a mortgage contract requirement.
I'm sure there are good ones out there but if a guy can tell you a total lemon looks good and then face no consequences, then it's an industry which will invite people who flunked out of contracting. Like, if you're a hot shit builder then why aren't you making a living as a builder?
The building inspectors I've met couldn't handle a bathroom renovation. In Aus they're all skinnyfat Brits in sedans and dress shoes with zero dirt under their fingernails, and every tool in the trunk is brand new.
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Thanks, guys.
So, it's a house I'm looking at just now online. It's back home, in an area I love, and it's twenty grand cheaper than its estimated value in anticipation of the repairs it needs. All repairs are Grade 2, meaning nothing urgent but will require future attention. I like the idea of getting it to rent it out, and I could spend a few months redecorating and carrying out some simple repairs. Girlfriend wouldn't have to stay but would probably love to do it up with me (total weirdo).
I'd be fine with all the painting, garden work, etc. However, I'm well aware that a lot of the work is carried out by trained professionals - which I'm not. The specific issues which I could see myself totally fucking up are 'internal joinery and kitchen fittings', internal wall dampness, and replacing 'corroded rainwater fittings'. I'd also have to pay professionals to fix some plumbing issues.
I'm talking myself out of this as I write.
Don’t do it, real estate is at record highs, you’ve been in a bull market for 10 years, in wall water dampness screams mold which means your gutting to the frame eating up all your profit and then some, and this rarely works out for a non contractor. Real life isn’t a tv show… If the rates go up like every “expert” says home prices could easily drop the 20 % your saving. If you decide to do it good luck and what ever you think it will cost and time it will take you multiply it by 2
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Also, imo, "building inspectors" are one of the biggest scams out there. Maybe it's different in the US. Afaik, they shoulder no liability at all and their useless opinions, which you are paying for, are a mortgage contract requirement.
I'm sure there are good ones out there but if a guy can tell you a total lemon looks good and then face no consequences, then it's an industry which will invite people who flunked out of contracting. Like, if you're a hot shit builder then why aren't you making a living as a builder?
The building inspectors I've met couldn't handle a bathroom renovation. In Aus they're all skinnyfat Brits in sedans and dress shoes with zero dirt under their fingernails, and every tool in the trunk is brand new.
Thanks, Tape. Your posts evidence a level of expertise I'll never have. If I started crawling around in roof spaces and shit like that, I just know I'd end up naked and dead, probably with my belt around my neck so everyone thinks I died during a wanking accident or something horrendous.
And absolutely agree with the so-called building 'inspectors'. They're all fat Asian kids in my area, walking around in Zara suits and Chinese-made shoes with no socks. The building reports I've been reading are a joke. Everything 'looks alright' after being inspected with a pair of binoculars from 500 metres away, lol.
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Also, imo, "building inspectors" are one of the biggest scams out there. Maybe it's different in the US. Afaik, they shoulder no liability at all and their useless opinions, which you are paying for, are a mortgage contract requirement.
I'm sure there are good ones out there but if a guy can tell you a total lemon looks good and then face no consequences, then it's an industry which will invite people who flunked out of contracting. Like, if you're a hot shit builder then why aren't you making a living as a builder?
The building inspectors I've met couldn't handle a bathroom renovation. In Aus they're all skinnyfat Brits in sedans and dress shoes with zero dirt under their fingernails, and every tool in the trunk is brand new.
Agreed.
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Is the wetness on certain walls? Any staining on ceiling? Is the wetness more when it rains? Do you have airfolw to all rooms and ductwork?Youve got to stop being a pussy and narrow it down , ivestigate with common sense we need more info Working on a house takes time you can do it.
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Is the wetness on certain walls? Any staining on ceiling? Is the wetness more when it rains? Do you have airfolw to all rooms and ductwork?Youve got to stop being a pussy and narrow it down , ivestigate with common sense we need more info Working on a house takes time you can do it.
I've not seen it yet, neeg. I need to arrange a viewing when I'm back but some faget will probably have already bought it by then.
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I've not seen it yet, neeg. I need to arrange a viewing when I'm back but some faget will probably have already bought it by then.
likely the fagget will get the property unfortuley
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I was thinking about doing this. Maybe hire management company? So far a friend of mine has had decent luck with it.
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Thanks, Tape. Your posts evidence a level of expertise I'll never have. If I started crawling around in roof spaces and shit like that, I just know I'd end up naked and dead, probably with my belt around my neck so everyone thinks I died during a wanking accident or something horrendous.
And absolutely agree with the so-called building 'inspectors'. They're all fat Asian kids in my area, walking around in Zara suits and Chinese-made shoes with no socks. The building reports I've been reading are a joke. Everything 'looks alright' after being inspected with a pair of binoculars from 500 metres away, lol.
Nothing to it, bro. Get a good headlamp and don't let the spiderwebs distract you from keeping yourself on joists and tops of walls. Sad to say, it's gotta happen if you're going to know if termites are in there.
Although I'm a new build drywall guy, I've done a fair bit of maintenance on rental properties. The #1 most common damage from renters is a hole punched in the main bed door or main bed ensuite door. If I ever rent a place out, those will be solid cores so the stupid bastard can break his hand instead of my door. It'd be worth every extra dollar.
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I was thinking about doing this. Maybe hire management company? So far a friend of mine has had decent luck with it.
I have two rentals and there is nothing a management company could do that I couldn't do myself. They collect a percentage of the rent.... for what exactly? The two I have are condos so there is really no outside work/chores that are needed that the HOA monthly fee doesn't provide for. People think that a management company can help with tenant disputes, but in reality you could do exactly the same as they can. If tenants don't pay, or try to enforce squatters rights (a real thing sometimes) a management company still won't get faster results, but will still charge you.
The only thing a management company would be good for is if you live in another state or travel extensively for work/holidays and it is hard to get there on a short notice. Like if there has been crime on/against the property or constant police calls to the property (domestic arguments, loud music, etc..) then the management company can be the first contact for the local agencies until you can arrange something from your end.
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I have two rentals and there is nothing a management company could do that I couldn't do myself. They collect a percentage of the rent.... for what exactly? The two I have are condos so there is really no outside work/chores that are needed that the HOA monthly fee doesn't provide for. People think that a management company can help with tenant disputes, but in reality you could do exactly the same as they can. If tenants don't pay, or try to enforce squatters rights (a real thing sometimes) a management company still won't get faster results, but will still charge you.
The only thing a management company would be good for is if you live in another state or travel extensively for work/holidays and it is hard to get there on a short notice. Like if there has been crime on/against the property or constant police calls to the property (domestic arguments, loud music, etc..) then the management company can be the first contact for the local agencies until you can arrange something from your end.
Good post.
Since one of mine is out of state i have a friend that checks up on it for me.
I make all my tenants aware that i do quarterly walkthroughs of my houses and that i can inspect the house at anytime as long as i give 24 hour notice.
I've had to evict a few people before. Not a fun process but considering what they were doing to the house it was easy.
One of my rentals is in a college town and it's gotten damaged many times, but i intentionally bought it across the street from the college for this reason. I can mark it up 50% because rich parents will pay for rentals for their brat kids. The extra money i've made has allowed me to keep the place nice while dealing with college students. Not all of them are bad, i had two students who lived in the house for 3 years and the place was immaculate. They even built a deck in the back for parties, but took care of it.
The only people i know who use property management companies are people who have like 10+ rentals and/or live far away. Since i have 3 residential properties i just handle it myself.
I also have some commercial properties, which is a completely different can of worms. I'm barely involved in anything that happens unless it has to do with money, which is nice.
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I bought my two during the market crash and I have long term tenets in both. A retired couple here full time in one and the other is rented by a family from Montreal with the grandparents spending winters here, leaving when their grandkids come for Spring Break. The rest of the time it sits empty except for a couple weeks in the summer and fall when their two sons come down and fish.
Never had any problems with either set of tenets. Best choice I ever made with these.
Now if I had a dozen properties with a turn over rate higher than norm or people that didn’t take care of it, etc…. It would be another story.
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Nothing to it, bro. Get a good headlamp and don't let the spiderwebs distract you from keeping yourself on joists and tops of walls. Sad to say, it's gotta happen if you're going to know if termites are in there.
Although I'm a new build drywall guy, I've done a fair bit of maintenance on rental properties. The #1 most common damage from renters is a hole punched in the main bed door or main bed ensuite door. If I ever rent a place out, those will be solid cores so the stupid bastard can break his hand instead of my door. It'd be worth every extra dollar.
LOL
I’ve done some plaster repair, mainly in apartments. Many times it was a result of a busted pipe. The plumbers had to break the wall to get at it.
Good thread. As said, unless you have some basic handy man skills, to the point where you can at least change a light switch, snake out a drain pipe, and replace a trap or a valve, it probably won’t be worth it.
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I bought my two during the market crash and I have long term tenets in both. A retired couple here full time in one and the other is rented by a family from Montreal with the grandparents spending winters here, leaving when their grandkids come for Spring Break. The rest of the time it sits empty except for a couple weeks in the summer and fall when their two sons come down and fish.
Never had any problems with either set of tenets. Best choice I ever made with these.
Now if I had a dozen properties with a turn over rate higher than norm or people that didn’t take care of it, etc…. It would be another story.
Those are the best tenants.
Most of mine stay for 2-3 years.
The college house is a trip, but i deal with the parents and most of the parents are good people. They will make sure their kids are halfway responsible. Plus it has a $2k deposit, so they would have to really trash the place to make me lose money.
My rentals are in areas with housing shortages so i can literally find a new tenant in 2-3 days.
Had a couple that lived in one of my NM rentals for 2 years, couldn't pay one month and just moved out without telling me. House was completely trashed and looked like it hadn't been cleaned in a year. Spent a month cleaning it up and putting in new carpet, cabinets and tile. The kitchen was so disgusting it made me sick. They were frying something on the counter without a lid, which looked like on a daily basis. Grease was all over the counter, cabinets and oven. Disgusting.
That's when i started doing quarterly inspections.
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I have two rentals and there is nothing a management company could do that I couldn't do myself. They collect a percentage of the rent.... for what exactly? The two I have are condos so there is really no outside work/chores that are needed that the HOA monthly fee doesn't provide for. People think that a management company can help with tenant disputes, but in reality you could do exactly the same as they can. If tenants don't pay, or try to enforce squatters rights (a real thing sometimes) a management company still won't get faster results, but will still charge you.
The only thing a management company would be good for is if you live in another state or travel extensively for work/holidays and it is hard to get there on a short notice. Like if there has been crime on/against the property or constant police calls to the property (domestic arguments, loud music, etc..) then the management company can be the first contact for the local agencies until you can arrange something from your end.
I am considering mostly out of state properties, duplexes, apartments, etc. A small group of friends is trying to convince me it's a wonderful idea.
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I am considering mostly out of state properties, duplexes, apartments, etc. A small group of friends is trying to convince me it's a wonderful idea.
Being a silent partner is a good way to go about it.
I just hope you trust your friends.
I will never go into business with friends or family, except my dad because he's one of the best business men i've met and understands the full picture.
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I am considering mostly out of state properties, duplexes, apartments, etc. A small group of friends is trying to convince me it's a wonderful idea.
Then get a property management company. And upon signing, make sure you establish that all tenets or prospective tenets have a background/credit done on them by PM company at their expense. Make it known that for any month the tenets do not pay rent, the PM company won't bill you for their fee either.
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Then get a property management company. And upon signing, make sure you establish that all tenets or prospective tenets have a background/credit done on them by PM company at their expense. Make it known that for any month the tenets do not pay rent, the PM company won't bill you for their fee either.
Lurk have you dealt with a property management company that didn't do all of this?
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Lurk have you dealt with a property management company that didn't do all of this?
Dude, I live in S FL. There are some down here that don't do shit except but their family members in the rentals and then dodge every obligation they have.
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I can finally update this now. It's been a long process but I've got tenants moving in and I hope it's been worth it. I ended up getting a place that didn't need renovating - just decorating. Still, I've learned a lot.
Firstly: fucking hell, painting was more difficult than I imagined. I learned the hard way about buying cheap paint for the living room and had to do it again with better stuff.
DIY. I am awful at DIY; it's truly embarrassing. If you don't know what you're doing, then hire a professional - that's my key takeaway. I decided not to risk killing myself wiring in a light feature, and I also fucked the laminate flooring by trying to do it myself and had to bring someone else in. Also, the only honorable tradesmen on Earth are Henda, Tapeworm, and the guy who replaced my window frame. All the others can get shoved in a gas chamber. Holy fuck, there's some rip-off merchants out there.
Some good aspects of it are how I've managed to decorate it. I went totally overboard but it looks like a show-home. The leasing agent was practically wanking when he saw it and it's been advertised as 'visually stunning'. I'd put photos up but I don't want some fag to dox me and send trannies to my door. I stuck coving up, a bronze curtain pole with amazing curtains, bronze chandelier, ornate artwork, candles, vases, etc. I really love how it looks and I had a lot of success using Gumtree (UK Craigslist) to pick up some really fancy items for cheap. I searched the expensive areas for rich people who were moving out and managed to pick up some awesome bargains (e.g. mint condition IKEA TV unit for £20. Marble table worth 2 grand from an old man who couldn't move it).
It feels like a nice milestone now after burning myself out by going at everything full-on for so long. Neither of my parents even owned a house and now I've got something I can leave to my nephew one day. Feels good. It's also bringing in just under £600 a month now, after leasing agent fees are paid. I'm not sure I'd want to do it again with another property, though.
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I have two rentals and there is nothing a management company could do that I couldn't do myself. They collect a percentage of the rent.... for what exactly? The two I have are condos so there is really no outside work/chores that are needed that the HOA monthly fee doesn't provide for. People think that a management company can help with tenant disputes, but in reality you could do exactly the same as they can. If tenants don't pay, or try to enforce squatters rights (a real thing sometimes) a management company still won't get faster results, but will still charge you.
The only thing a management company would be good for is if you live in another state or travel extensively for work/holidays and it is hard to get there on a short notice. Like if there has been crime on/against the property or constant police calls to the property (domestic arguments, loud music, etc..) then the management company can be the first contact for the local agencies until you can arrange something from your end.
management company is so you don't get a call at 8pm about the GFCI outlet being tripped, or a lightbulb being out, etc. It's a layer of insulation between your tenants and you, so that ideally you only deal w major problems. Whether or not that's worth 1/12 of your annual revenue is a factor of how busy you are.
rental properties can be a great way to invest but it's not quite "set it and forget it" like w securities--which is why the rate of return is typically a bit higher
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I'd put photos up but I don't want some fag to dox me and sent trannies to my door.
Jason Blaha made that mistake, many a time.
P.S. Congrats on the property - sounds nice and high-end quality finish. Mine was built by Barrett Homes that I was renting out and it was basically the lower end of quality. Cheap standard fixings and fittings, thin shitty walls... The only benefit was that it was a brand new apartment block and was on the top floor (out of 3) which considering how shoddily built they are: saves listening to morons above you.
Good luck and hope you get great tenants. One guy I had ended up smashing holes in the walls, stealing my furniture/sofas and breaking the thermostats of the boiler. Chipping up the surface tops in the kitchen. All sorts of shit. I forget but he was a right scumbag. Speaking of which you'll need to evict somebody on a Section 8 rather than a 21 order if you don't protect the deposit in one of the four schemes (I just noticed you used £ so are in the UK) - make sure you protect deposits as section 8 evictions are more involved and a ballache, imo. Also if it comes to it enforce a high court sheriff as the tenants don't get a date - if you wait for normall bailiffs they get given a date and end up robbing your shit with a lot more time whereas a high court sheriff turns up weeks earlier and is present whilst they have to leave. Apologies if you've already done this court process before I just thought it worth mentioning because you never know what scum you'll come across. Wishing you all the best with the project.
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Those are the best tenants.
Most of mine stay for 2-3 years.
The college house is a trip, but i deal with the parents and most of the parents are good people. They will make sure their kids are halfway responsible. Plus it has a $2k deposit, so they would have to really trash the place to make me lose money.
My rentals are in areas with housing shortages so i can literally find a new tenant in 2-3 days.
Had a couple that lived in one of my NM rentals for 2 years, couldn't pay one month and just moved out without telling me. House was completely trashed and looked like it hadn't been cleaned in a year. Spent a month cleaning it up and putting in new carpet, cabinets and tile. The kitchen was so disgusting it made me sick. They were frying something on the counter without a lid, which looked like on a daily basis. Grease was all over the counter, cabinets and oven. Disgusting.
That's when i started doing quarterly inspections.
A friend of mine kind of fell into a PM position. I'm doing all the plumbing repairs for her. It's insane how some people live. Just absolute filth. The stories are endless. This one guy let his kitchen faucet have a leak under the cabinet for like 4 months. Just ruining everything underneath it.
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Jason Blaha made that mistake, many a time.
P.S. Congrats on the property - sounds nice and high-end quality finish. Mine was built by Barrett Homes that I was renting out and it was basically the lower end of quality. Cheap standard fixings and fittings, thin shitty walls... The only benefit was that it was a brand new apartment block and was on the top floor (out of 3) which considering how shoddily built they are: saves listening to morons above you.
Good luck and hope you get great tenants. One guy I had ended up smashing holes in the walls, stealing my furniture/sofas and breaking the thermostats of the boiler. Chipping up the surface tops in the kitchen. All sorts of shit. I forget but he was a right scumbag. Speaking of which you'll need to evict somebody on a Section 8 rather than a 21 order if you don't protect the deposit in one of the four schemes (I just noticed you used £ so are in the UK) - make sure you protect deposits as section 8 evictions are more involved and a ballache, imo. Also if it comes to it enforce a high court sheriff as the tenants don't get a date - if you wait for normall bailiffs they get given a date and end up robbing your shit with a lot more time whereas a high court sheriff turns up weeks earlier and is present whilst they have to leave. Apologies if you've already done this court process before I just thought it worth mentioning because you never know what scum you'll come across. Wishing you all the best with the project.
Thanks, man. The management company are great and do a big vetting process on the tenants. I've had loads make offers but settled on a young family, as they're more reliable. I was always in the boxing gyms when I was young, so some of my best friends are professionals and also debt collectors for that strange little world - any nightmare tenants will just be introduced to those guys.
The annoying thing is the walls. I can imagine some noise complaints in future as they're very thin. I've looked into soundproofing but it's bloody expensive. It might be something I have to do in future but I'll wait and see before committing to that. If it does end up being more hassle than it's worth then I can always sell and still make a profit, I guess.
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Thanks, man. The management company are great and do a big vetting process on the tenants. I've had loads make offers but settled on a young family, as they're more reliable. I was always in the boxing gyms when I was young, so some of my best friends are professionals and also debt collectors for that strange little world - any nightmare tenants will just be introduced to those guys.
The annoying thing is the walls. I can imagine some noise complaints in future as they're very thin. I've looked into soundproofing but it's bloody expensive. It might be something I have to do in future but I'll wait and see before committing to that. If it does end up being more hassle than it's worth then I can always sell and still make a profit, I guess.
I wish I had your friends around when I was going through that crap. You have no idea how many times I came close to putting on a balaclava and taking a chance on that punk but I had too much to lose and risk. I got quoted like 5k to get it 'resolved' - that seemed steep and although they were 'professionals' - at the time I'd only lost like 2k's worth in fees/rent although looking back - with all the damage ultimately it would have made more sense to hire them to deal with this punk rather than the damage caused and theft caused. Then again I didn't want the guy to get too fucked up and I have a feeling they would have gone too far. I'm still bitter to this day about that tenant. I'm glad you are getting yourself 'firewalled' through others and choosing good tenants. I messed up in that regard.
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Thanks, man. The management company are great and do a big vetting process on the tenants. I've had loads make offers but settled on a young family, as they're more reliable. I was always in the boxing gyms when I was young, so some of my best friends are professionals and also debt collectors for that strange little world - any nightmare tenants will just be introduced to those guys.
The annoying thing is the walls. I can imagine some noise complaints in future as they're very thin. I've looked into soundproofing but it's bloody expensive. It might be something I have to do in future but I'll wait and see before committing to that. If it does end up being more hassle than it's worth then I can always sell and still make a profit, I guess.
Good to hear you've reached the finish line m8. Hope tenancy goes well. Shoot me a pm if you want to talk plaster, dry lining, or paint.
As for soundproofing, my experience is limited. But my understanding (despite what the nice man who wants your money for his whiz-bang product says) is that nothing beats mass. Isolation framing mounts and soundbatts are nonsense in real world applications imo. Soundcheck gypboard, which I've worked with, is nothing but double heavy sheetrock at 5x the price. You'd be best served by filling a studwall with concrete, or double up concrete filled studwalls with a couple inches of expanded urethane insulation between them if you really mean business.
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Thanks, man. The management company are great and do a big vetting process on the tenants. I've had loads make offers but settled on a young family, as they're more reliable. I was always in the boxing gyms when I was young, so some of my best friends are professionals and also debt collectors for that strange little world - any nightmare tenants will just be introduced to those guys.
The annoying thing is the walls. I can imagine some noise complaints in future as they're very thin. I've looked into soundproofing but it's bloody expensive. It might be something I have to do in future but I'll wait and see before committing to that. If it does end up being more hassle than it's worth then I can always sell and still make a profit, I guess.
Owning real estate and renting out is brutal. Grant Cardone and others make it sound like it's a really easy way to invest and make money but it is definitely a full time job.
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I wish I had your friends around when I was going through that crap. You have no idea how many times I came close to putting on a balaclava and taking a chance on that punk but I had too much to lose and risk. I got quoted like 5k to get it 'resolved' - that seemed steep and although they were 'professionals' - at the time I'd only lost like 2k's worth in fees/rent although looking back - with all the damage ultimately it would have made more sense to hire them to deal with this punk rather than the damage caused and theft caused. Then again I didn't want the guy to get too fucked up and I have a feeling they would have gone too far. I'm still bitter to this day about that tenant. I'm glad you are getting yourself 'firewalled' through others and choosing good tenants. I messed up in that regard.
One should always hope that man's faculties of reason and rationality prevail, but for those who don't possess them, sometimes the rod is more effective. It is better to be feared than to be loved, and all that ;D.
Good to hear you've reached the finish line m8. Hope tenancy goes well. Shoot me a pm if you want to talk plaster, dry lining, or paint.
As for soundproofing, my experience is limited. But my understanding (despite what the nice man who wants your money for his whiz-bang product says) is that nothing beats mass. Isolation framing mounts and soundbatts are nonsense in real world applications imo. Soundcheck gypboard, which I've worked with, is nothing but double heavy sheetrock at 5x the price. You'd be best served by filling a studwall with concrete, or double up concrete filled studwalls with a couple inches of expanded urethane insulation between them if you really mean business.
Thanks, Tape. appreciate that. Yeah, that's my understanding of soundproofing from what I've read, too. Will keep it in mind.
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Owning real estate and renting out is brutal. Grant Cardone and others make it sound like it's a really easy way to invest and make money but it is definitely a full time job.
Yeah, I'm exhausted already and hoping that this one place is enough and works out well. Definitely don't have plans to pursue any more.
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Is it a total nightmare? Specifically, could the average spaz (e.g. me) fix things like damp internal walls, replace floors, and maybe do some roof tiling? Can I realistically just YouTube it and give it a go or will I end up spending a fortune?
I have always wanted to, but have ZERO mechanical skills. I don't even know how to hang curtain rods, picture frames, or a mirror level....I also don't own a drill, and am not willing to spend $100+ for one only to fuck things up. Luckily, maintenance is willing to do shit on the side for cheap. Like $10-$20 depending on what it is. Sometimes they just do shit for free if they are here doing normal fixes anyway. 8)
I wanted to partner with a co-worker/friend years ago that knew how to do all that shit and way more. Told him I would buy the property, and pay for repairs, and then split the % based on my costs and his time per/hour to repair and flip....and no less than 25% to him. I'd just write off the labor and materials costs on my business entity.
I was also willing to do just 50/50 if we both bought the property equally, Told him he could charge me the normal contractor rate or even a little more, and materials costs, and I would just write them off under my business side still. He said it sounded too complicated Made me lose faith that he would do repairs to flip/rent/lease timely, but I still said, bro.... I will help you if you do it, and learn from you so in time it is just straight 50/50....still said no. Dipshit then on his part, but now is not the time to flip! Materials are inflated, and so are housing prices. Once the bubble bursts, you'd lose your ass. :'(
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A friend of mine kind of fell into a PM position. I'm doing all the plumbing repairs for her. It's insane how some people live. Just absolute filth. The stories are endless. This one guy let his kitchen faucet have a leak under the cabinet for like 4 months. Just ruining everything underneath it.
after a prospective tenant clears background & credit check, offer them tenancy conditional on you seeing their current kitchen or bathroom first. give them a couple hours to clean up if they want but even stlll you'll know 99% there is to know about a tenant between all that stuff
db check with a lawyer first :D
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I can finally update this now. It's been a long process but I've got tenants moving in and I hope it's been worth it. I ended up getting a place that didn't need renovating - just decorating. Still, I've learned a lot.
Firstly: fucking hell, painting was more difficult than I imagined. I learned the hard way about buying cheap paint for the living room and had to do it again with better stuff.
DIY. I am awful at DIY; it's truly embarrassing. If you don't know what you're doing, then hire a professional - that's my key takeaway. I decided not to risk killing myself wiring in a light feature, and I also fucked the laminate flooring by trying to do it myself and had to bring someone else in. Also, the only honorable tradesmen on Earth are Henda, Tapeworm, and the guy who replaced my window frame. All the others can get shoved in a gas chamber. Holy fuck, there's some rip-off merchants out there.
Some good aspects of it are how I've managed to decorate it. I went totally overboard but it looks like a show-home. The leasing agent was practically wanking when he saw it and it's been advertised as 'visually stunning'. I'd put photos up but I don't want some fag to dox me and send trannies to my door. I stuck coving up, a bronze curtain pole with amazing curtains, bronze chandelier, ornate artwork, candles, vases, etc. I really love how it looks and I had a lot of success using Gumtree (UK Craigslist) to pick up some really fancy items for cheap. I searched the expensive areas for rich people who were moving out and managed to pick up some awesome bargains (e.g. mint condition IKEA TV unit for £20. Marble table worth 2 grand from an old man who couldn't move it).
It feels like a nice milestone now after burning myself out by going at everything full-on for so long. Neither of my parents even owned a house and now I've got something I can leave to my nephew one day. Feels good. It's also bringing in just under £600 a month now, after leasing agent fees are paid. I'm not sure I'd want to do it again with another property, though.
Sounds like you are getting into it. It only gets better if you manage everything properly.
I never did furnished rentals, so have no experience with that. I know too much about renters than to provide furnishings.
Remember, it's not the monthly fee, it's the home sale in 10-20 years that pays. They are just covering cost and your time to manage the home. Some areas you can make a living renting homes, but don't plan on it. It's supplemental income with a big sale at the end, profit.
I had 15 rentals at one time about 9 years ago, now i have 3 residential and 2 big commercial properties, both paid for in full. Brings in enough to pay my bills and have some nice vacations, so my full time job's salary is all savings or investments. I've been buying a ton of raw land in key locations for future developments. I will sell it in 10-20 years or i will develop and sell myself in retirement.
It is challenging, but once you get the hang of it and have the right people to help you out, it is easy money.
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A friend of mine kind of fell into a PM position. I'm doing all the plumbing repairs for her. It's insane how some people live. Just absolute filth. The stories are endless. This one guy let his kitchen faucet have a leak under the cabinet for like 4 months. Just ruining everything underneath it.
One of my first rentals many years ago was to a young couple with a 2 year old. Both had good jobs, dressed nice and had amazing credit.
About 6 months into the lease a hurricane came through the area (Houston) and damaged the roof a little. They had a small leak in one of the spare bedrooms that the husband used for an office.
I showed up two days later expecting a little water damage, which there was. But the entire room was filled with half empty disposable cups filled with milk or juice and a few dozen half empty plates of food. The room was filled with flies and a disgusting smell. Most of these items had been there for months. It was unbelievable.
They didn't even act like it was a big deal, but it was the most disgusting thing i had seen or smelt in years. I made a big deal out of it and told them they had 24 hours to sanitize the room or i would evict them.
It was weird because the rest of the house was very clean, but that office was filthy.
People are weird and many people have disgusting habits. If it weren't for the easy money i'd never rent out a house again in my life.
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One of my first rentals many years ago was to a young couple with a 2 year old. Both had good jobs, dressed nice and had amazing credit.
About 6 months into the lease a hurricane came through the area (Houston) and damaged the roof a little. They had a small leak in one of the spare bedrooms that the husband used for an office.
I showed up two days later expecting a little water damage, which there was. But the entire room was filled with half empty disposable cups filled with milk or juice and a few dozen half empty plates of food. The room was filled with flies and a disgusting smell. Most of these items had been there for months. It was unbelievable.
They didn't even act like it was a big deal, but it was the most disgusting thing i had seen or smelt in years. I made a big deal out of it and told them they had 24 hours to sanitize the room or i would evict them.
It was weird because the rest of the house was very clean, but that office was filthy.
People are weird and many people have disgusting habits. If it weren't for the easy money i'd never rent out a house again in my life.
Can relate. I used to work for a landlord in the HMO game (house of multiple occupancy) - basically people on benefits/assistance that are homeless get housing and you get 253 per bedroom per week from the council for the tenant. Now, imagine there's a 5 bedroom house that's 253x5 per week. X4 per month. You're talking 5k per month. Obviously subtract the bills, electric, gas, council tax and the like. Great investment. The downside is: you're putting up with the lowest of the low. Sometimes we'd come into rooms with needles discarded all over the floor. They get given sharps boxes to put needles in at the clinics - so not sure why they couldn't use them.
Oh - open bottles of piss left out because they're too fucked up to stagger to the toilets. Mould growing on top of the urine that's how long some of the shit had been there.
Plates of food left all over the shop going green... Seriously. That's without all the anti-social behaviour crap.
Basically - 1k a month per person for a little room in a house the government pays HMO landlords. One of his properties had 12 bedrooms that's 12k per month he was getting on that property. Crazy. And there's no shortage of junkies/down and outs.
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Basically - 1k a month per person for a little room in a house the government pays HMO landlords. One of his properties had 12 bedrooms that's 12k per month he was getting on that property. Crazy. And there's no shortage of junkies/down and outs.
on a similar note, I've thought halfway houses are a pretty good opportunity. In the US, it's where you go after inpatient drug rehab and it's often court-ordered. There's not enough of these places to go around, so they are in high demand. There's typically a 'house leader' who manages the place in exchange for free housing, and this individual sets & enforces the rules.
Frequent drug tests, chore requirements, curfews keep the living situation orderly. Tenants are typically highly motivated to follow the rules, as they can be forced to leave on short notice for rule infractions.
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Not worth the headache unless the cash flow is extreme.
After all is said and done you're better off putting your money in a very low expense equity index fund.
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on a similar note, I've thought halfway houses are a pretty good opportunity. In the US, it's where you go after inpatient drug rehab and it's often court-ordered. There's not enough of these places to go around, so they are in high demand. There's typically a 'house leader' who manages the place in exchange for free housing, and this individual sets & enforces the rules.
Frequent drug tests, chore requirements, curfews keep the living situation orderly. Tenants are typically highly motivated to follow the rules, as they can be forced to leave on short notice for rule infractions.
This isn't too dissimilar from that. He hires "Support Workers" which are supposed to check in with the 'residents' and do support plans such as help towards finding drug resources/job resources and the like. Even help with filling out forms and taking time to do 'action plans' or taking them to do shopping, or giving those little red food vouchers they can take to food banks. Trouble is: Support Workers are on minimum pay and get given 35-50 residents to take care of (say 6 properties on average) - so imagine the council says you're supposed to give 1 hour of support per resident. You're only contracted for say 40 hours per week - how does that cover travel time to properties, dealing with fire alarm checks, fire door checks, utility checks, meter reads etc etc on top of giving support? It doesn't add up. The guy I worked for was a greedy girl. I left after 3 years (I wasn't doing support side tbh I couldn't do that thankless task and deal with junkies all day every day just lol)
There's great money to be made but you've got to basically fraud it (the paperwork) and blag your way through it to get the money by not providing real 'support'. I know a guy that started out with nothing - from a minimum wage job as a support worker fresh out of prison. We gave him a start with us and subcontracted him through our company (as we had the contract for the RSL [registered social landlord] and now he's got 6 properties of his own pulling in 30-40k per month. He brought his brother in 50/50 and they're doing well just bought his mother a house and moved her out of a shitty area. Ex con to a few hundred thousand in a matter of a couple of years just by getting in the HMO game.
I like the sound of your end of things in terms of curfews and drug tests because you're right: it's mainly alcohol/drugs which cause 90% of the maintenance issues and damage because of these crazy nutters going psycho when high. The best situation would be a 36/40/50 room ex-hotel that you could get 50k in per month and just hire 24/7 security, as well as on site support workers. Pure profit and one building to deal with rather than individual properties.
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One of my first rentals many years ago was to a young couple with a 2 year old. Both had good jobs, dressed nice and had amazing credit.
About 6 months into the lease a hurricane came through the area (Houston) and damaged the roof a little. They had a small leak in one of the spare bedrooms that the husband used for an office.
I showed up two days later expecting a little water damage, which there was. But the entire room was filled with half empty disposable cups filled with milk or juice and a few dozen half empty plates of food. The room was filled with flies and a disgusting smell. Most of these items had been there for months. It was unbelievable.
They didn't even act like it was a big deal, but it was the most disgusting thing i had seen or smelt in years. I made a big deal out of it and told them they had 24 hours to sanitize the room or i would evict them.
It was weird because the rest of the house was very clean, but that office was filthy.
People are weird and many people have disgusting habits. If it weren't for the easy money i'd never rent out a house again in my life.
This is my fear and, yeah, people are fucking pigs. I'm already regretting having a kid in the place. But It's good in a way because it forces me to examine when I'm being a prick and contradicting myself (I used to have a nightmare renting as a student because I had a dog). I've just said 'fuck it' and said yes to kids and pets. In retrospect, though, I shouldn't have furnished it with things that I really like, as I'm already fond of them and I'll be pissed off when they inevitably get damaged. Everything is insured, though.
Not worth the headache unless the cash flow is extreme.
After all is said and done you're better off putting your money in a very low expense equity index fund.
This is what I intend to do, mate. I've been getting advice on it and the money will likely go into that. The place is in a good area and the prices are continuing to shoot up. There's a good uni, a medical college, and a good kid's school nearby, so the rental market is really strong. A lot of the students here are millionaires from abroad. I had three of them offer six months' rent up front, but one was a fat Indian guy and the other two were weird as fuck. No deal.
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Is it a total nightmare? Specifically, could the average spaz (e.g. me) fix things like damp internal walls, replace floors, and maybe do some roof tiling? Can I realistically just YouTube it and give it a go or will I end up spending a fortune?
Date a contractor. That’s what I did. Seriously. ;)
He was an electrician by training but he could do carpentry, plumbing, design—everything. He even had all his own tools. I paid for all the materials and compensated him the way he liked to be compensated. ;D
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Date a contractor. That’s what I did. Seriously. ;)
He was an electrician by training but he could do carpentry, plumbing, design—everything. He even had all his own tools. I paid for all the materials and compensated him the way he liked to be compensated. ;D
Hahaha. Mild flirting to score a bargain is as far as I'll ever go!
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Date a contractor. That’s what I did. Seriously. ;)
He was an electrician by training but he could do carpentry, plumbing, design—everything. He even had all his own tools. I paid for all the materials and compensated him the way he liked to be compensated. ;D
Are there female contractors? :-\
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Are there female contractors? :-\
They're called "Hookers".
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Can relate. I used to work for a landlord in the HMO game (house of multiple occupancy) - basically people on benefits/assistance that are homeless get housing and you get 253 per bedroom per week from the council for the tenant. Now, imagine there's a 5 bedroom house that's 253x5 per week. X4 per month. You're talking 5k per month. Obviously subtract the bills, electric, gas, council tax and the like. Great investment. The downside is: you're putting up with the lowest of the low. Sometimes we'd come into rooms with needles discarded all over the floor. They get given sharps boxes to put needles in at the clinics - so not sure why they couldn't use them.
Oh - open bottles of piss left out because they're too fucked up to stagger to the toilets. Mould growing on top of the urine that's how long some of the shit had been there.
Plates of food left all over the shop going green... Seriously. That's without all the anti-social behaviour crap.
Basically - 1k a month per person for a little room in a house the government pays HMO landlords. One of his properties had 12 bedrooms that's 12k per month he was getting on that property. Crazy. And there's no shortage of junkies/down and outs.
I'd never get into something like that. But i have large deposits and everything is written into my contracts.
Years ago, i owned a property next to a subdivision that had a handful of halfway houses. Cop were called almost every weekend and it was crazy drama. The neighbors to these houses had to deal with constant drug problems and violence. I'd never want to be near one, as i've seen all of them be a complete disaster.
I've seen some nasty stuff in my rentals, but all my leases have very strict language on pets, kids and general cleanliness. Most people don't read them closely and act surprised when they don't get their deposit back. But i have become very strict over the years. Also, i do quarterly inspections and also short notice inspections.
If you can manage the properties well it's easy money.
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Not worth the headache unless the cash flow is extreme.
After all is said and done you're better off putting your money in a very low expense equity index fund.
Sheeeeit.
My houses have outpaced any index fund i've ever had, by a shitload.
It's not the rent, it's the sale at the end.
Plus, it's all cash, and i can turn it 2-3 times a year.
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This is my fear and, yeah, people are fucking pigs. I'm already regretting having a kid in the place. But It's good in a way because it forces me to examine when I'm being a prick and contradicting myself (I used to have a nightmare renting as a student because I had a dog). I've just said 'fuck it' and said yes to kids and pets. In retrospect, though, I shouldn't have furnished it with things that I really like, as I'm already fond of them and I'll be pissed off when they inevitably get damaged. Everything is insured, though.
Yeah, it's a learning experience. Most of my rentals were in college towns, very expensive colleges. In areas of good development and high economic profiles. I've worked in land development most of my career, i know all the tricks.
Rich parents have always made it easy for me. I stayed away from other areas.
Kids are 10x worse than animals, most of the time. But i don't allow large dogs anymore. 20 pounds and less.
I've gotten really strict over the years, if i was presented my lease agreement, i wouldn't sign it. ;D
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Sheeeeit.
My houses have outpaced any index fund i've ever had, by a shitload.
It's not the rent, it's the sale at the end.
Plus, it's all cash, and i can turn it 2-3 times a year.
Tio,
Been through the wars like you.
Glad it works for you. Did you sell your properties yet? The taxman cometh. All that recaptured depreciation. When you say "turn it 2-3 times a year" what do you mean? I did it for 25 years and made money. However, if I figured in my time it was like earning a decent wage. Not bad but hardly free money. A part-time job.
People think they buy a rental and it just free money. I rent a house at the shore for a couple weeks a year. The double house next door is half rental. The owner is there "enjoying" his property on the weekends and spending most of his time fixing things. His family is having fun while he fixes. Presumably he has a regular residence in his hometown to keep up too. Probably has a few hundred grand invested and after 30 years he sells it for twice what he paid. Now discount that by his elbow grease and time and the taxman. Not great.
When it runs smooth it's great until it isn't then a pain in the ass until it's smooth until it's a pain the ass...etc.
It is a way to create wealth like a small business which is also a pain in the ass. It is a way.
You can create wealth from nothing if you are in the right place at the right time or have a method.
There was a time I had a method and was creating money out of thin air it seemed.
Most small operators don't make much when they factor in the cost of their labor and headache time, such as lawyer fees, repairs, upkeep, time spent in court for evictions, stress, etc.
Some (most) of the people in this thread getting into it will make only headaches.
An index fund like Vanguard TSM has grown 8-10% a year over time plus 2% dividends and you don't do a thing.
Owning rental r/e is a part-time job. If you are highly leveraged your cash flow is minimal. If you are not and have a lot of equity then the cost of your capital invested lowers your return but your cash flow is good.
Appreciation depends on location and timing and what you paid going in. The big money is made going in or if you are in a super hot market and you can flip before the market turns.
What would I do if I could do over? Buy as many shares of Berkshire Hathaway as I could 40 years ago. One share then was about $5k and now it's worth $1 million.
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This isn't too dissimilar from that. He hires "Support Workers" which are supposed to check in with the 'residents' and do support plans such as help towards finding drug resources/job resources and the like. Even help with filling out forms and taking time to do 'action plans' or taking them to do shopping, or giving those little red food vouchers they can take to food banks. Trouble is: Support Workers are on minimum pay and get given 35-50 residents to take care of (say 6 properties on average) - so imagine the council says you're supposed to give 1 hour of support per resident. You're only contracted for say 40 hours per week - how does that cover travel time to properties, dealing with fire alarm checks, fire door checks, utility checks, meter reads etc etc on top of giving support? It doesn't add up. The guy I worked for was a greedy girl. I left after 3 years (I wasn't doing support side tbh I couldn't do that thankless task and deal with junkies all day every day just lol)
There's great money to be made but you've got to basically fraud it (the paperwork) and blag your way through it to get the money by not providing real 'support'. I know a guy that started out with nothing - from a minimum wage job as a support worker fresh out of prison. We gave him a start with us and subcontracted him through our company (as we had the contract for the RSL [registered social landlord] and now he's got 6 properties of his own pulling in 30-40k per month. He brought his brother in 50/50 and they're doing well just bought his mother a house and moved her out of a shitty area. Ex con to a few hundred thousand in a matter of a couple of years just by getting in the HMO game.
I like the sound of your end of things in terms of curfews and drug tests because you're right: it's mainly alcohol/drugs which cause 90% of the maintenance issues and damage because of these crazy nutters going psycho when high. The best situation would be a 36/40/50 room ex-hotel that you could get 50k in per month and just hire 24/7 security, as well as on site support workers. Pure profit and one building to deal with rather than individual properties.
There are far easier ways of doing it in the UK.
You can buy a property and pass it onto a housing association to manage and they give you a guaranteed rent. There is no commission, no void periods, no tenants to deal with, no refurb or repairs to do, they handle everything. You just give them a habitable property and that's it. Easiest money you can possibly make.
Obviously this only works where there are a shortage of social housing (London mostly) so you'll need a fair amount of £££ to get started.
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Good idea to apply the DIY philosophy to all areas of your life. Be you own doctor and dentist. Fix your own car. If you get in trouble with the law, represent yourself.
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Are there female contractors? :-\
They're called "Hookers".
;D ;D Thanks gentlemen!
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Good idea to apply the DIY philosophy to all areas of your life. Be you own doctor and dentist. Fix your own car. If you get in trouble with the law, represent yourself.
Insofar as you're able, yeah. Most people have no interest in nutrition or how things work or learning anything. They're content to throw Big Macs down their necks then be all "That's my cardiologist's problem."
Too many people trying too hard isn't the cause of the world's woes. Have you been to the mall? Holy useless eaters, Batman.
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They're called "Hookers".
Different type of job working with pipes.
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Not worth the headache unless the cash flow is extreme.
After all is said and done you're better off putting your money in a very low expense equity index fund.
generally speaking, yes. My day job is as a carpenter/remodeler so I can do most of this stuff myself, I can't imagine how it would be profitable if you had to pay someone to do everything for you.
It's nice to have cash flow from rent AND asset value appreciation, and the tax law is quite favorable to real estate investors, but if I was to sit down and bill out my time to myself like I do for customers, I don't think I'd be much exceeding the ROI I'd get from an index fund.
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Tio,
Been through the wars like you.
Glad it works for you. Did you sell your properties yet? The taxman cometh. All that recaptured depreciation. When you say "turn it 2-3 times a year" what do you mean? I did it for 25 years and made money. However, if I figured in my time it was like earning a decent wage. Not bad but hardly free money. A part-time job.
People think they buy a rental and it just free money. I rent a house at the shore for a couple weeks a year. The double house next door is half rental. The owner is there "enjoying" his property on the weekends and spending most of his time fixing things. His family is having fun while he fixes. Presumably he has a regular residence in his hometown to keep up too. Probably has a few hundred grand invested and after 30 years he sells it for twice what he paid. Now discount that by his elbow grease and time and the taxman. Not great.
When it runs smooth it's great until it isn't then a pain in the ass until it's smooth until it's a pain the ass...etc.
It is a way to create wealth like a small business which is also a pain in the ass. It is a way.
You can create wealth from nothing if you are in the right place at the right time or have a method.
There was a time I had a method and was creating money out of thin air it seemed.
Most small operators don't make much when they factor in the cost of their labor and headache time, such as lawyer fees, repairs, upkeep, time spent in court for evictions, stress, etc.
Some (most) of the people in this thread getting into it will make only headaches.
An index fund like Vanguard TSM has grown 8-10% a year over time plus 2% dividends and you don't do a thing.
Owning rental r/e is a part-time job. If you are highly leveraged your cash flow is minimal. If you are not and have a lot of equity then the cost of your capital invested lowers your return but your cash flow is good.
Appreciation depends on location and timing and what you paid going in. The big money is made going in or if you are in a super hot market and you can flip before the market turns.
What would I do if I could do over? Buy as many shares of Berkshire Hathaway as I could 40 years ago. One share then was about $5k and now it's worth $1 million.
Turning money is taking the profit and putting it into something else, which earns profit, rinse repeat.
I created a system that worked, all cash. Only financed the construction aspect of my first two development projects. Everything else has been cash since then, no banks, no loans. Working with one of the largest builders in America.
Flipped houses and developed land for builders after the housing crash in 07-08. Bought tracts of land for pennies on the dollar, many were foreclosures. Developed them myself and sold finished pads/lots, made a killing.
I stopped doing all that once the market got hot. Now i own raw land and a few properties that pay my bills every month with a healthy profit on top of that. My salary/profits are all invested in new land deals with partners and i travel 2-3 months a year. No worries, no drama.
I've worked in land development most of my career. I know all the tricks. Watched most of the people fail. I did well. When the market tanks again, i'll do it all again. Currently looking to buy some projects others backed out of, will see how things go the next 6-12 months.
Shit, if we could look into the future, we'd all be rich. My index funds and general market investments are about 20% of my portfolio.
I'm also a silent partner in about 15 other businesses and properties. Just a small owner, but i get a lot in return over the years if it plays out right. So far it has done pretty well.
The hard part is done, now i work an easy job and enjoy life. I did work my life away for about 7-8 years but being able to retire at 50-55 will make it all worth it.
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Turning money is taking the profit and putting it into something else, which earns profit, rinse repeat.
I created a system that worked, all cash. Only financed the construction aspect of my first two development projects. Everything else has been cash since then, no banks, no loans. Working with one of the largest builders in America.
Flipped houses and developed land for builders after the housing crash in 07-08. Bought tracts of land for pennies on the dollar, many were foreclosures. Developed them myself and sold finished pads/lots, made a killing.
I stopped doing all that once the market got hot. Now i own raw land and a few properties that pay my bills every month with a healthy profit on top of that. My salary/profits are all invested in new land deals with partners and i travel 2-3 months a year. No worries, no drama.
I've worked in land development most of my career. I know all the tricks. Watched most of the people fail. I did well. When the market tanks again, i'll do it all again. Currently looking to buy some projects others backed out of, will see how things go the next 6-12 months.
Shit, if we could look into the future, we'd all be rich. My index funds and general market investments are about 20% of my portfolio.
I'm also a silent partner in about 15 other businesses and properties. Just a small owner, but i get a lot in return over the years if it plays out right. So far it has done pretty well.
The hard part is done, now i work an easy job and enjoy life. I did work my life away for about 7-8 years but being able to retire at 50-55 will make it all worth it.
You've done very well, indeed. I got my first rental property at an auction in 2009 just after the crash - similar situation to you looking for a bargain. Turns out, when looking at the deeds/paperwork; I lived a few streets away from the original owners and knew their son in passing - so they must have been hit hard in that crash. Not sure if you had a building/contractor background or not. I didn't, initially so everything was a learning curve and stressful for a while figuring shit out without being scammed. That's why I stuck to new builds initially with superficial fixes. What was your original background were you in a trade/building side so it was easy to take risky projects on?
Congrats, btw and hope you have a great long life in retirement enjoying yourself. I'm nowhere near that league but it'd be nice to be comfortable one day. After all the times I've been let down though; I don't know how I'd be able to risk as many investments as someone like yourself, re: partnering up in businesses etc.
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Turning money is taking the profit and putting it into something else, which earns profit, rinse repeat.
I created a system that worked, all cash. Only financed the construction aspect of my first two development projects. Everything else has been cash since then, no banks, no loans. Working with one of the largest builders in America.
Flipped houses and developed land for builders after the housing crash in 07-08. Bought tracts of land for pennies on the dollar, many were foreclosures. Developed them myself and sold finished pads/lots, made a killing.
I stopped doing all that once the market got hot. Now i own raw land and a few properties that pay my bills every month with a healthy profit on top of that. My salary/profits are all invested in new land deals with partners and i travel 2-3 months a year. No worries, no drama.
I've worked in land development most of my career. I know all the tricks. Watched most of the people fail. I did well. When the market tanks again, i'll do it all again. Currently looking to buy some projects others backed out of, will see how things go the next 6-12 months.
Shit, if we could look into the future, we'd all be rich. My index funds and general market investments are about 20% of my portfolio.
I'm also a silent partner in about 15 other businesses and properties. Just a small owner, but i get a lot in return over the years if it plays out right. So far it has done pretty well.
The hard part is done, now i work an easy job and enjoy life. I did work my life away for about 7-8 years but being able to retire at 50-55 will make it all worth it.
Fantastic Tio!
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Hahaha. Mild flirting to score a bargain is as far as I'll ever go!
He renovated my house over a period of 15 months. Every time he came over he noticed something that needed fixing or upgrading. Off we would go to Home Depot or lowes and when the weekend was over the work was done. He installed 6 new ceiling fans… new LED lighting fixtures to replace old fluorescents… new external lighting all around the house… fully renovated two bathrooms… new flooring… installed new hot water heater… hung several new doors… and on and on. A lot of time passed and we eventually drifted apart but when I bought my new place he brought his new tools and did more work for me for old times sake. I compensated him accordingly. Saved me a fortune! ;D
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Phil Pfister does houses
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Old Man Strength... Calves of Peace.
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He renovated my house over a period of 15 months. Every time he came over he noticed something that needed fixing or upgrading. Off we would go to Home Depot or lowes and when the weekend was over the work was done. He installed 6 new ceiling fans… new LED lighting fixtures to replace old fluorescents… new external lighting all around the house… fully renovated two bathrooms… new flooring… installed new hot water heater… hung several new doors… and on and on. A lot of time passed and we eventually drifted apart but when I bought my new place he brought his new tools and did more work for me for old times sake. I compensated him accordingly. Saved me a fortune! ;D
You had me at "hung doors."
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Yes. I purchased a 1910 bungalow (with good bones) which had been a rental for several years and was in dire need of maintenance and repairs. While my family and I lived there, I pretty much "gutted" it to the studs a section at a time. I relocated the kitchen and one of the two bathrooms to different locations. I relocated the basement stairs. I added and enlarged some windows and moved the backdoor to the new breakfast area. Installed new kitchen cabinets and laid flooring throughout.
Since I was employed fulltime, all the work was done on nights and weekends. Needless to say the project took longer because of this. All the work was permitted and passed inspections on the first go-round. The only trade I hired out was the rough-in plumbing. Although I did all the electrical work myself, a friend of mine who was an electrical inspector for the city gave me instructions on how to do this work but did not do any of the actual work himself.
When I sold the house several years later, I quadrupled what I paid for the house plus the cost of the remodel. It sold within days of going on the market. So, all in all, it was worth the effort. The one downside is that I tend to be a little OCDC which meant I was much harder on myself and the quality of the work then I would have been had I hired a contractor.
The house where I currently live was built in the late 70's. Although it has been almost completely renovated now, I did very little of the work myself. My goal was to make this our "forever" home rather than a flip or spec property.
I am satisfied with the results and the house appreciated from a purchase price of a little over $200 K in 1998 to almost $800 K today. A lot of money was spent on contractors over the years. I also spent a considerable amount of money buying only high-end materials, including the appliances, new furnace, added air-conditioning, mini-splits for the upstairs rooms, a tankless water heater, 3/4" solid hardwood floors throughout the house which was previously all carpeted, plumbing and lighting fixtures. New landscaping including a new driveway cost me $75 G's. Most recently, I replaced the roof which is 40 squares at a little over $100 a square.
I lovingly call this place ‘the money pit’ realizing this is of my own making.