Any of you hunks purchased property and renovated it yourself?

[Tapeworm]

Thanks, Tape. Your posts evidence a level of expertise I'll never have. If I started crawling around in roof spaces and shit like that, I just know I'd end up naked and dead, probably with my belt around my neck so everyone thinks I died during a wanking accident or something horrendous.

And absolutely agree with the so-called building 'inspectors'. They're all fat Asian kids in my area, walking around in Zara suits and Chinese-made shoes with no socks. The building reports I've been reading are a joke. Everything 'looks alright' after being inspected with a pair of binoculars from 500 metres away, lol.

Nothing to it, bro. Get a good headlamp and don't let the spiderwebs distract you from keeping yourself on joists and tops of walls. Sad to say, it's gotta happen if you're going to know if termites are in there.

Although I'm a new build drywall guy, I've done a fair bit of maintenance on rental properties. The #1 most common damage from renters is a hole punched in the main bed door or main bed ensuite door. If I ever rent a place out, those will be solid cores so the stupid bastard can break his hand instead of my door. It'd be worth every extra dollar.

[LurkerNoMore]

I was thinking about doing this. Maybe hire management company? So far a friend of mine has had decent luck with it.

I have two rentals and there is nothing a management company could do that I couldn't do myself.  They collect a percentage of the rent.... for what exactly?  The two I have are condos so there is really no outside work/chores that are needed that the HOA monthly fee doesn't provide for.  People think that a management company can help with tenant disputes, but in reality you could do exactly the same as they can.  If tenants don't pay, or try to enforce squatters rights (a real thing sometimes) a management company still won't get faster results, but will still charge you. 

The only thing a management company would be good for is if you live in another state or travel extensively for work/holidays and it is hard to get there on a short notice.  Like if there has been crime on/against the property or constant police calls to the property (domestic arguments, loud music, etc..) then the management company can be the first contact for the local agencies until you can arrange something from your end.

[ThisisOverload]

I have two rentals and there is nothing a management company could do that I couldn't do myself.  They collect a percentage of the rent.... for what exactly?  The two I have are condos so there is really no outside work/chores that are needed that the HOA monthly fee doesn't provide for.  People think that a management company can help with tenant disputes, but in reality you could do exactly the same as they can.  If tenants don't pay, or try to enforce squatters rights (a real thing sometimes) a management company still won't get faster results, but will still charge you. 

The only thing a management company would be good for is if you live in another state or travel extensively for work/holidays and it is hard to get there on a short notice.  Like if there has been crime on/against the property or constant police calls to the property (domestic arguments, loud music, etc..) then the management company can be the first contact for the local agencies until you can arrange something from your end.

Good post.

Since one of mine is out of state i have a friend that checks up on it for me.

I make all my tenants aware that i do quarterly walkthroughs of my houses and that i can inspect the house at anytime as long as i give 24 hour notice.

I've had to evict a few people before. Not a fun process but considering what they were doing to the house it was easy.

One of my rentals is in a college town and it's gotten damaged many times, but i intentionally bought it across the street from the college for this reason. I can mark it up 50% because rich parents will pay for rentals for their brat kids. The extra money i've made has allowed me to keep the place nice while dealing with college students. Not all of them are bad, i had two students who lived in the house for 3 years and the place was immaculate. They even built a deck in the back for parties, but took care of it.

The only people i know who use property management companies are people who have like 10+ rentals and/or live far away. Since i have 3 residential properties i just handle it myself.

I also have some commercial properties, which is a completely different can of worms. I'm barely involved in anything that happens unless it has to do with money, which is nice.

[LurkerNoMore]

I bought my two during the market crash and I have long term tenets in both.  A retired couple here full time in one and the other is rented by a family from Montreal with the grandparents spending winters here, leaving when their grandkids come for Spring Break. The rest of the time it sits empty except for a couple weeks in the summer and fall when their two sons come down and fish. 

Never had any problems with either set of tenets.  Best choice I ever made with these. 

Now if I had a dozen properties with a turn over rate higher than norm or people that didn’t take care of it, etc…. It would be another story.

[Thin Lizzy]

Nothing to it, bro. Get a good headlamp and don't let the spiderwebs distract you from keeping yourself on joists and tops of walls. Sad to say, it's gotta happen if you're going to know if termites are in there.

Although I'm a new build drywall guy, I've done a fair bit of maintenance on rental properties. The #1 most common damage from renters is a hole punched in the main bed door or main bed ensuite door. If I ever rent a place out, those will be solid cores so the stupid bastard can break his hand instead of my door. It'd be worth every extra dollar.

LOL

I’ve done some plaster repair, mainly in apartments. Many times it was a result of a busted pipe. The plumbers had to break the wall to get at it.

Good thread. As said, unless you have some basic handy man skills, to the point where you can at least change a light switch, snake out a drain pipe, and replace a trap or a valve, it probably won’t be worth it.

[ThisisOverload]

I bought my two during the market crash and I have long term tenets in both.  A retired couple here full time in one and the other is rented by a family from Montreal with the grandparents spending winters here, leaving when their grandkids come for Spring Break. The rest of the time it sits empty except for a couple weeks in the summer and fall when their two sons come down and fish. 

Never had any problems with either set of tenets.  Best choice I ever made with these. 

Now if I had a dozen properties with a turn over rate higher than norm or people that didn’t take care of it, etc…. It would be another story.

Those are the best tenants.

Most of mine stay for 2-3 years.

The college house is a trip, but i deal with the parents and most of the parents are good people. They will make sure their kids are halfway responsible. Plus it has a $2k deposit, so they would have to really trash the place to make me lose money.

My rentals are in areas with housing shortages so i can literally find a new tenant in 2-3 days.

Had a couple that lived in one of my NM rentals for 2 years, couldn't pay one month and just moved out without telling me. House was completely trashed and looked like it hadn't been cleaned in a year. Spent a month cleaning it up and putting in new carpet, cabinets and tile. The kitchen was so disgusting it made me sick. They were frying something on the counter without a lid, which looked like on a daily basis. Grease was all over the counter, cabinets and oven. Disgusting.

That's when i started doing quarterly inspections.

[chaos]

I have two rentals and there is nothing a management company could do that I couldn't do myself.  They collect a percentage of the rent.... for what exactly?  The two I have are condos so there is really no outside work/chores that are needed that the HOA monthly fee doesn't provide for.  People think that a management company can help with tenant disputes, but in reality you could do exactly the same as they can.  If tenants don't pay, or try to enforce squatters rights (a real thing sometimes) a management company still won't get faster results, but will still charge you. 

The only thing a management company would be good for is if you live in another state or travel extensively for work/holidays and it is hard to get there on a short notice.  Like if there has been crime on/against the property or constant police calls to the property (domestic arguments, loud music, etc..) then the management company can be the first contact for the local agencies until you can arrange something from your end.

I am considering mostly out of state properties, duplexes, apartments, etc. A small group of friends is trying to convince me it's a wonderful idea.

[ThisisOverload]

I am considering mostly out of state properties, duplexes, apartments, etc. A small group of friends is trying to convince me it's a wonderful idea.

Being a silent partner is a good way to go about it.

I just hope you trust your friends.

I will never go into business with friends or family, except my dad because he's one of the best business men i've met and understands the full picture.

[LurkerNoMore]

I am considering mostly out of state properties, duplexes, apartments, etc. A small group of friends is trying to convince me it's a wonderful idea.

Then get a property management company.  And upon signing, make sure you establish that all tenets or prospective tenets have a background/credit done on them by PM company at their expense.  Make it known that for any month the tenets do not pay rent, the PM company won't bill you for their fee either.

[Dave D]

Then get a property management company.  And upon signing, make sure you establish that all tenets or prospective tenets have a background/credit done on them by PM company at their expense.  Make it known that for any month the tenets do not pay rent, the PM company won't bill you for their fee either.

Lurk have you dealt with a property management company that didn't do all of this?

[LurkerNoMore]

Lurk have you dealt with a property management company that didn't do all of this?

Dude, I live in S FL.  There are some down here that don't do shit except but their family members in the rentals and then dodge every obligation they have. 

[Phantom Spunker]

I can finally update this now. It's been a long process but I've got tenants moving in and I hope it's been worth it. I ended up getting a place that didn't need renovating - just decorating. Still, I've learned a lot.

Firstly: fucking hell, painting was more difficult than I imagined. I learned the hard way about buying cheap paint for the living room and had to do it again with better stuff.

DIY. I am awful at DIY; it's truly embarrassing. If you don't know what you're doing, then hire a professional - that's my key takeaway. I decided not to risk killing myself wiring in a light feature, and I also fucked the laminate flooring by trying to do it myself and had to bring someone else in. Also, the only honorable tradesmen on Earth are Henda, Tapeworm, and the guy who replaced my window frame. All the others can get shoved in a gas chamber. Holy fuck, there's some rip-off merchants out there.

Some good aspects of it are how I've managed to decorate it. I went totally overboard but it looks like a show-home. The leasing agent was practically wanking when he saw it and it's been advertised as 'visually stunning'. I'd put photos up but I don't want some fag to dox me and send trannies to my door. I stuck coving up, a bronze curtain pole with amazing curtains, bronze chandelier, ornate artwork, candles, vases, etc. I really love how it looks and I had a lot of success using Gumtree (UK Craigslist) to pick up some really fancy items for cheap. I searched the expensive areas for rich people who were moving out and managed to pick up some awesome bargains (e.g. mint condition IKEA TV unit for £20. Marble table worth 2 grand from an old man who couldn't move it).

It feels like a nice milestone now after burning myself out by going at everything full-on for so long. Neither of my parents even owned a house and now I've got something I can leave to my nephew one day. Feels good. It's also bringing in just under £600 a month now, after leasing agent fees are paid. I'm not sure I'd want to do it again with another property, though.

[ProudVirgin69]

I have two rentals and there is nothing a management company could do that I couldn't do myself.  They collect a percentage of the rent.... for what exactly?  The two I have are condos so there is really no outside work/chores that are needed that the HOA monthly fee doesn't provide for.  People think that a management company can help with tenant disputes, but in reality you could do exactly the same as they can.  If tenants don't pay, or try to enforce squatters rights (a real thing sometimes) a management company still won't get faster results, but will still charge you. 

The only thing a management company would be good for is if you live in another state or travel extensively for work/holidays and it is hard to get there on a short notice.  Like if there has been crime on/against the property or constant police calls to the property (domestic arguments, loud music, etc..) then the management company can be the first contact for the local agencies until you can arrange something from your end.

management company is so you don't get a call at 8pm about the GFCI outlet being tripped, or a lightbulb being out, etc.  It's a layer of insulation between your tenants and you, so that ideally you only deal w major problems.  Whether or not that's worth 1/12 of your annual revenue is a factor of how busy you are.

rental properties can be a great way to invest but it's not quite "set it and forget it" like w securities--which is why the rate of return is typically a bit higher

[Dalnet]

I'd put photos up but I don't want some fag to dox me and sent trannies to my door.

Jason Blaha made that mistake, many a time.

P.S. Congrats on the property - sounds nice and high-end quality finish. Mine was built by Barrett Homes that I was renting out and it was basically the lower end of quality. Cheap standard fixings and fittings, thin shitty walls... The only benefit was that it was a brand new apartment block and was on the top floor (out of 3) which considering how shoddily built they are: saves listening to morons above you.

Good luck and hope you get great tenants. One guy I had ended up smashing holes in the walls, stealing my furniture/sofas and breaking the thermostats of the boiler. Chipping up the surface tops in the kitchen. All sorts of shit. I forget but he was a right scumbag. Speaking of which you'll need to evict somebody on a Section 8 rather than a 21 order if you don't protect the deposit in one of the four schemes (I just noticed you used £ so are in the UK) - make sure you protect deposits as  section 8 evictions are more involved and a ballache, imo. Also if it comes to it enforce a high court sheriff as the tenants don't get a date - if you wait for normall bailiffs they get given a date and end up robbing your shit with a lot more time whereas a high court sheriff turns up weeks earlier and is present whilst they have to leave. Apologies if you've already done this court process before I just thought it worth mentioning because you never know what scum you'll come across. Wishing you all the best with the project.

[ChristopherA]

Those are the best tenants.

Most of mine stay for 2-3 years.

The college house is a trip, but i deal with the parents and most of the parents are good people. They will make sure their kids are halfway responsible. Plus it has a $2k deposit, so they would have to really trash the place to make me lose money.

My rentals are in areas with housing shortages so i can literally find a new tenant in 2-3 days.

Had a couple that lived in one of my NM rentals for 2 years, couldn't pay one month and just moved out without telling me. House was completely trashed and looked like it hadn't been cleaned in a year. Spent a month cleaning it up and putting in new carpet, cabinets and tile. The kitchen was so disgusting it made me sick. They were frying something on the counter without a lid, which looked like on a daily basis. Grease was all over the counter, cabinets and oven. Disgusting.

That's when i started doing quarterly inspections.

A friend of mine kind of fell into a PM position. I'm doing all the plumbing repairs for her. It's insane how some people live. Just absolute filth. The stories are endless. This one guy let his kitchen faucet have a leak under the cabinet for like 4 months. Just ruining everything underneath it.

[Phantom Spunker]

Jason Blaha made that mistake, many a time.

P.S. Congrats on the property - sounds nice and high-end quality finish. Mine was built by Barrett Homes that I was renting out and it was basically the lower end of quality. Cheap standard fixings and fittings, thin shitty walls... The only benefit was that it was a brand new apartment block and was on the top floor (out of 3) which considering how shoddily built they are: saves listening to morons above you.

Good luck and hope you get great tenants. One guy I had ended up smashing holes in the walls, stealing my furniture/sofas and breaking the thermostats of the boiler. Chipping up the surface tops in the kitchen. All sorts of shit. I forget but he was a right scumbag. Speaking of which you'll need to evict somebody on a Section 8 rather than a 21 order if you don't protect the deposit in one of the four schemes (I just noticed you used £ so are in the UK) - make sure you protect deposits as  section 8 evictions are more involved and a ballache, imo. Also if it comes to it enforce a high court sheriff as the tenants don't get a date - if you wait for normall bailiffs they get given a date and end up robbing your shit with a lot more time whereas a high court sheriff turns up weeks earlier and is present whilst they have to leave. Apologies if you've already done this court process before I just thought it worth mentioning because you never know what scum you'll come across. Wishing you all the best with the project.

Thanks, man. The management company are great and do a big vetting process on the tenants. I've had loads make offers but settled on a young family, as they're more reliable. I was always in the boxing gyms when I was young, so some of my best friends are professionals and also debt collectors for that strange little world - any nightmare tenants will just be introduced to those guys.

The annoying thing is the walls. I can imagine some noise complaints in future as they're very thin. I've looked into soundproofing but it's bloody expensive. It might be something I have to do in future but I'll wait and see before committing to that. If it does end up being more hassle than it's worth then I can always sell and still make a profit, I guess.

[Dalnet]

Thanks, man. The management company are great and do a big vetting process on the tenants. I've had loads make offers but settled on a young family, as they're more reliable. I was always in the boxing gyms when I was young, so some of my best friends are professionals and also debt collectors for that strange little world - any nightmare tenants will just be introduced to those guys.

The annoying thing is the walls. I can imagine some noise complaints in future as they're very thin. I've looked into soundproofing but it's bloody expensive. It might be something I have to do in future but I'll wait and see before committing to that. If it does end up being more hassle than it's worth then I can always sell and still make a profit, I guess.

I wish I had your friends around when I was going through that crap. You have no idea how many times I came close to putting on a balaclava and taking a chance on that punk but I had too much to lose and risk. I got quoted like 5k to get it 'resolved' - that seemed steep and although they were 'professionals' - at the time I'd only lost like 2k's worth in fees/rent although looking back - with all the damage ultimately it would have made more sense to hire them to deal with this punk rather than the damage caused and theft caused. Then again I didn't want the guy to get too fucked up and I have a feeling they would have gone too far. I'm still bitter to this day about that tenant. I'm glad you are getting yourself 'firewalled' through others and choosing good tenants. I messed up in that regard.

[Tapeworm]

Thanks, man. The management company are great and do a big vetting process on the tenants. I've had loads make offers but settled on a young family, as they're more reliable. I was always in the boxing gyms when I was young, so some of my best friends are professionals and also debt collectors for that strange little world - any nightmare tenants will just be introduced to those guys.

The annoying thing is the walls. I can imagine some noise complaints in future as they're very thin. I've looked into soundproofing but it's bloody expensive. It might be something I have to do in future but I'll wait and see before committing to that. If it does end up being more hassle than it's worth then I can always sell and still make a profit, I guess.

Good to hear you've reached the finish line m8. Hope tenancy goes well. Shoot me a pm if you want to talk plaster, dry lining, or paint.

As for soundproofing, my experience is limited. But my understanding (despite what the nice man who wants your money for his whiz-bang product says) is that nothing beats mass. Isolation framing mounts and soundbatts are nonsense in real world applications imo. Soundcheck gypboard, which I've worked with, is nothing but double heavy sheetrock at 5x the price. You'd be best served by filling a studwall with concrete, or double up concrete filled studwalls with a couple inches of expanded urethane insulation between them if you really mean business.

[Humble Narcissist]

Thanks, man. The management company are great and do a big vetting process on the tenants. I've had loads make offers but settled on a young family, as they're more reliable. I was always in the boxing gyms when I was young, so some of my best friends are professionals and also debt collectors for that strange little world - any nightmare tenants will just be introduced to those guys.

The annoying thing is the walls. I can imagine some noise complaints in future as they're very thin. I've looked into soundproofing but it's bloody expensive. It might be something I have to do in future but I'll wait and see before committing to that. If it does end up being more hassle than it's worth then I can always sell and still make a profit, I guess.

Owning real estate and renting out is brutal. Grant Cardone and others make it sound like it's a really easy way to invest and make money but it is definitely a full time job.

[Phantom Spunker]

I wish I had your friends around when I was going through that crap. You have no idea how many times I came close to putting on a balaclava and taking a chance on that punk but I had too much to lose and risk. I got quoted like 5k to get it 'resolved' - that seemed steep and although they were 'professionals' - at the time I'd only lost like 2k's worth in fees/rent although looking back - with all the damage ultimately it would have made more sense to hire them to deal with this punk rather than the damage caused and theft caused. Then again I didn't want the guy to get too fucked up and I have a feeling they would have gone too far. I'm still bitter to this day about that tenant. I'm glad you are getting yourself 'firewalled' through others and choosing good tenants. I messed up in that regard.

One should always hope that man's faculties of reason and rationality prevail, but for those who don't possess them, sometimes the rod is more effective. It is better to be feared than to be loved, and all that  .

Good to hear you've reached the finish line m8. Hope tenancy goes well. Shoot me a pm if you want to talk plaster, dry lining, or paint.

As for soundproofing, my experience is limited. But my understanding (despite what the nice man who wants your money for his whiz-bang product says) is that nothing beats mass. Isolation framing mounts and soundbatts are nonsense in real world applications imo. Soundcheck gypboard, which I've worked with, is nothing but double heavy sheetrock at 5x the price. You'd be best served by filling a studwall with concrete, or double up concrete filled studwalls with a couple inches of expanded urethane insulation between them if you really mean business.

Thanks, Tape. appreciate that. Yeah, that's my understanding of soundproofing from what I've read, too. Will keep it in mind.

[Phantom Spunker]

Owning real estate and renting out is brutal. Grant Cardone and others make it sound like it's a really easy way to invest and make money but it is definitely a full time job.

Yeah, I'm exhausted already and hoping that this one place is enough and works out well. Definitely don't have plans to pursue any more.

[myt1]

Is it a total nightmare? Specifically, could the average spaz (e.g. me) fix things like damp internal walls, replace floors, and maybe do some roof tiling? Can I realistically just YouTube it and give it a go or will I end up spending a fortune?

I have always wanted to, but have ZERO mechanical skills.  I don't even know how to hang curtain rods, picture frames, or a mirror level....I also don't own a drill, and am not willing to spend $100+ for one only to fuck things up.  Luckily, maintenance is willing to do shit on the side for cheap.  Like $10-$20 depending on what it is.  Sometimes they just do shit for free if they are here doing normal fixes anyway.

I wanted to partner with a co-worker/friend years ago that knew how to do all that shit and way more.  Told him I would buy the property, and pay for repairs, and then split the % based on my costs and his time per/hour to repair and flip....and no less than 25% to him.  I'd just write off the labor and materials costs on my business entity.

I was also willing to do just 50/50 if we both bought the property equally,  Told him he could charge me the normal contractor rate or even a little more, and materials costs, and I would just write them off under my business side still.  He said it sounded too complicated  Made me lose faith that he would do repairs to flip/rent/lease timely, but I still said, bro.... I will help you if you do it, and learn from you so in time it is just straight 50/50....still said no.  Dipshit then on his part, but now is not the time to flip!  Materials are inflated, and so are housing  prices. Once the bubble bursts, you'd lose your ass. 

[ProudVirgin69]

A friend of mine kind of fell into a PM position. I'm doing all the plumbing repairs for her. It's insane how some people live. Just absolute filth. The stories are endless. This one guy let his kitchen faucet have a leak under the cabinet for like 4 months. Just ruining everything underneath it.

after a prospective tenant clears background & credit check, offer them tenancy conditional on you seeing their current kitchen or bathroom first.  give them a couple hours to clean up if they want but even stlll you'll know 99% there is to know about a tenant between all that stuff

db check with a lawyer first 

[ThisisOverload]

I can finally update this now. It's been a long process but I've got tenants moving in and I hope it's been worth it. I ended up getting a place that didn't need renovating - just decorating. Still, I've learned a lot.

Firstly: fucking hell, painting was more difficult than I imagined. I learned the hard way about buying cheap paint for the living room and had to do it again with better stuff.

DIY. I am awful at DIY; it's truly embarrassing. If you don't know what you're doing, then hire a professional - that's my key takeaway. I decided not to risk killing myself wiring in a light feature, and I also fucked the laminate flooring by trying to do it myself and had to bring someone else in. Also, the only honorable tradesmen on Earth are Henda, Tapeworm, and the guy who replaced my window frame. All the others can get shoved in a gas chamber. Holy fuck, there's some rip-off merchants out there.

Some good aspects of it are how I've managed to decorate it. I went totally overboard but it looks like a show-home. The leasing agent was practically wanking when he saw it and it's been advertised as 'visually stunning'. I'd put photos up but I don't want some fag to dox me and send trannies to my door. I stuck coving up, a bronze curtain pole with amazing curtains, bronze chandelier, ornate artwork, candles, vases, etc. I really love how it looks and I had a lot of success using Gumtree (UK Craigslist) to pick up some really fancy items for cheap. I searched the expensive areas for rich people who were moving out and managed to pick up some awesome bargains (e.g. mint condition IKEA TV unit for £20. Marble table worth 2 grand from an old man who couldn't move it).

It feels like a nice milestone now after burning myself out by going at everything full-on for so long. Neither of my parents even owned a house and now I've got something I can leave to my nephew one day. Feels good. It's also bringing in just under £600 a month now, after leasing agent fees are paid. I'm not sure I'd want to do it again with another property, though.

Sounds like you are getting into it. It only gets better if you manage everything properly.

I never did furnished rentals, so have no experience with that. I know too much about renters than to provide furnishings.

Remember, it's not the monthly fee, it's the home sale in 10-20 years that pays. They are just covering cost and your time to manage the home. Some areas you can make a living renting homes, but don't plan on it. It's supplemental income with a big sale at the end, profit.

I had 15 rentals at one time about 9 years ago, now i have 3 residential and 2 big commercial properties, both paid for in full. Brings in enough to pay my bills and have some nice vacations, so my full time job's salary is all savings or investments. I've been buying a ton of raw land in key locations for future developments. I will sell it in 10-20 years or i will develop and sell myself in retirement.

It is challenging, but once you get the hang of it and have the right people to help you out, it is easy money.

[ThisisOverload]

A friend of mine kind of fell into a PM position. I'm doing all the plumbing repairs for her. It's insane how some people live. Just absolute filth. The stories are endless. This one guy let his kitchen faucet have a leak under the cabinet for like 4 months. Just ruining everything underneath it.

One of my first rentals many years ago was to a young couple with a 2 year old. Both had good jobs, dressed nice and had amazing credit.

About 6 months into the lease a hurricane came through the area (Houston) and damaged the roof a little. They had a small leak in one of the spare bedrooms that the husband used for an office.

I showed up two days later expecting a little water damage, which there was. But the entire room was filled with half empty disposable cups filled with milk or juice and a few dozen half empty plates of food. The room was filled with flies and a disgusting smell. Most of these items had been there for months. It was unbelievable.

They didn't even act like it was a big deal, but it was the most disgusting thing i had seen or smelt in years. I made a big deal out of it and told them they had 24 hours to sanitize the room or i would evict them.

It was weird because the rest of the house was very clean, but that office was filthy.

People are weird and many people have disgusting habits. If it weren't for the easy money i'd never rent out a house again in my life.