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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Special Ed on May 31, 2006, 09:20:05 AM
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I recently got my bloodwork done and I asked for test levels which I suspected were low. Sure enough, my T was 231, which is average for a 90-year old man, a nine year old boy, or a horny 30-year old woman, but ridiculously low for a 30 year old guy.
Anywho, the doc said he could prescribe me gel or refer me to an endocrinologist. Since everyone is badmouthing the gel, I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions that a reasonable endocrinologist would entertain. Does anyone know what types of juice US doctors would prescribe under the circumstances.
Thanks mates!
Special "EstrogenMan" Ed
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I recently got my bloodwork done and I asked for test levels which I suspected were low. Sure enough, my T was 231, which is average for a 90-year old man, a nine year old boy, or a horny 30-year old woman, but ridiculously low for a 30 year old guy.
Anywho, the doc said he could prescribe me gel or refer me to an endocrinologist. Since everyone is badmouthing the gel, I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions that a reasonable endocrinologist would entertain. Does anyone know what types of juice US doctors would prescribe under the circumstances.
Thanks mates!
Special "EstrogenMan" Ed
I am on the gels - and report no problems whatsoever. In fact, my total T and free T levels are consistently in the upper third of the range - while DHT and Estradiol remain in the normal range. No need for anti-E's as well. Hell, I was on 7.5 mg Androgel and that pushed me WAY above my physiological range LOL
Short answer - try gels. If they don't get you where YOU and your doctor think you need to be - then make the switch to injectables.
It's that simple bro...
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Questions for The Man:
1. Which gel are you on?
2. How often do you put it on?
3. Where do you put it?
4. What were your T-levels before and after?
Thx.
Special "High Pitch Eric" Ed
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Testim is better than androgel. But if you want Test for any muscle building effects the gels dont work
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You never really explained what got you where you are now? Why did you suspect your T was low? Were you cycling gear? Would be good to know what kind of cycle you did and for how long? How many cycles have you done? What kind of anncilaries and PCT did you do? How long have you been off the gear?
This info would help in offering advice or thoughts on the matter.
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Haven't touched gear in seven years. Never did any real cycles. Some equipoise here, anavar and primo there. Nothing serious and nothing at all in the past 7 years. I had my T levels checked because I used to want to bang coke machines and now I don't even look twice at a payphone change slot. Seriously, I read that up to 50% men who are diagnosed with depression are actually suffering from low T-levels and I haven't felt normal in about a year. That's my story...what's your advice?
SE
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Are you under alot of stress? Do you work alot of hours, and sleep little? Are you eating enough? Not overtraining are you? You are training right?
All those alone or together can kill your T levels.
At 30 it seems that 500-800ng/dl is the norm, which is where you should be.
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Hey Ed I think you are on the right track then, see what you think of the gels your doc wants to put you on. Best to start conservative in your treatment.
After a few months see how you are feeling, have the levels rechecked in 6 months or so. As the other member stated the things he mentioned can also lead to depression and decreased T.
Are you using any recreational drugs or drinking?
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No rec drugs or drinking but my training has been sporadic. I priced out Testim at 260 for 30 packs and 315 for a pump of Androgel. Does that sound kosher?
Ed
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I guess, but at your age I don't think you should give up getting your natrual levels up just yet. I mean you know you don't have hypogonadism right? If you do, then screw the gel and get on test cyp immediatley starting at 100mg/wk and work up from there if necessary.
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That's way to expensive for that stuff. Do you have insurance. A doctor could get you that stuff for less than 100 bucks. If your going to want a good boost and want to build muscle stick with the hard core stuff. If all you want is a good libido enhancer than use the testim or andro gel.
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Ed,
I've done both the gel and injectable Test. The gel is expensive but convenient. I applied it to my scrotum daily. I never experienced any irritation or uncomfortable sides. Any spot where the skin is thin (shins below the knees, underside of the arm for example) and no hair is present will result in the greatest amount of absorbtion and produce the highest level of exo test. Yes... I did shave my nut sack to clear away the hair. The directions said not to apply it there but WTF do they know. I was able to get my Test. level up to 1760 ng./dl. by slobbering enough of it on me. My compounder knew his shit.
Brand name transdermal Test. is the most expensive, "Androgel" was ridiculous. A compounding pharmacy can sell you a much more reasonably priced product. There is both a cream and a gel. The cream is a little messy but the gel soaks right in and leaves no residue.
I much prefer the injectable form of administering the hormone. My present HRT plan calls for 300 mgs. of Cypionate every 2 weeks. At first I didn't like the idea of sinking a 23g., 1 inch spike into my delts and quads but now I actually look forward to doing it. My Test. level was 228 ng./dl. before I began... my most recent level was 674 ng./dl.
I know what you mean about feeling somewhat depressed. Using the Cypionate has made a difference for me.
Try and get the injectable form if your doc will prescribe it. Good Luck ;)
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To answer your question on injectables, the only two types of injectable available in the US/Canada are Cypionate and until recently Enanthate (which has been discontinued)
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Ed,
I've done both the gel and injectable Test. The gel is expensive but convenient. I applied it to my scrotum daily. I never experienced any irritation or uncomfortable sides. Any spot where the skin is thin (shins below the knees, underside of the arm for example) and no hair is present will result in the greatest amount of absorbtion and produce the highest level of exo test. Yes... I did shave my nut sack to clear away the hair. The directions said not to apply it there but WTF do they know. I was able to get my Test. level up to 1760 ng./dl. by slobbering enough of it on me. My compounder knew his shit.
Brand name transdermal Test. is the most expensive, "Androgel" was ridiculous. A compounding pharmacy can sell you a much more reasonably priced product. There is both a cream and a gel. The cream is a little messy but the gel soaks right in and leaves no residue.
I much prefer the injectable form of administering the hormone. My present HRT plan calls for 300 mgs. of Cypionate every 2 weeks. At first I didn't like the idea of sinking a 23g., 1 inch spike into my delts and quads but now I actually look forward to doing it. My Test. level was 228 ng./dl. before I began... my most recent level was 674 ng./dl.
I know what you mean about feeling somewhat depressed. Using the Cypionate has made a difference for me.
Try and get the injectable form if your doc will prescribe it. Good Luck ;)
Sounds like you were better off with the gel... Nearly 3 times the level you have with the cypionate.
Why can't you build muscle with the gel? Isn't a high test level all the same no matter how it gets there?
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Sounds like you were better off with the gel... Nearly 3 times the level you have with the cypionate.
Why can't you build muscle with the gel? Isn't a high test level all the same no matter how it gets there?
If I had done more than 300 Mgs. of Cyp. IM every 2 weeks I could have surpassed the gel level I achieved.
I see the logic of your question, however, since Test. is Test. regardless of the attached esther or delivery method.
One advantage of daily transdermal applications is stability. Make no mistake... a stable level of the hormone is very desirable and important.
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No rec drugs or drinking but my training has been sporadic. I priced out Testim at 260 for 30 packs and 315 for a pump of Androgel. Does that sound kosher?
Ed
In that case I would tell the doctors to fuck off and order some test- e from a good UG at 25-35 bucks
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If I had done more than 300 Mgs. of Cyp. IM every 2 weeks I could have surpassed the gel level I achieved.
I see the logic of your question, however, since Test. is Test. regardless of the attached esther or delivery method.
One advantage of daily transdermal applications is stability. Make no mistake... a stable level of the hormone is very desirable and important.
I think you should be doing two shots a week at 100mg. That would put you in the upper normal range, around say 1000-1200 pretty steadily too.
So you can still make some gains off Trans test I'm sure right? As long as you use enough... Like you said you could use it twice a day if you wanted too...
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I think you should be doing two shots a week at 100mg. That would put you in the upper normal range, around say 1000-1200 pretty steadily too.
So you can still make some gains off Trans test I'm sure right? As long as you use enough... Like you said you could use it twice a day if you wanted too...
Ballz,
I'm no expert. Any knowledge I have is based on my own experience, research and the questions I've asked the medical folks who have treated me for hypogonadism.
That being said... I feel you can make some modest gains off the transdermal Test. provided you haven't worn out your receptors or elevated your resistance level with previous AAS use.
I used the gel when I was also using HGH. Both were prescribed for me by an anti-aging doc. I couldn't afford to continue the HGH or that doctor. I then went to my regular doctor who is an internal medicine, family practice guy and he surprised me by agreeing to prescribe the Cyp.
I did make some nice gains off the gel/HGH protocol. Hard to tell which was responsible but it was probably due to the synergy of using both. I especially liked the lean, tight look it produced due its fat mobilization properties.
Using a transdermal form you should be able to raise your Test. to the supraphysiological level necessary to build muscle but I'm quite certain it will be much more expensive than using Test.Cypionate IM. One disadvantage of using the Cyp. IM is edema... be prepared for some water retention - diet, cardio and consistent training become MORE important not less important.
Captain Equipoise stated only Cypionate is now available in the US. This is probably true but not long ago I was offered a 5 ml. of Enanthate manufactured by Pharmacia/Upjohn when the Cypionate I ordinarily use was unavailable. I declined the 5 ml. of E and waited a few days until they got the 10 ml. bottle of Cyp. The Cyp. I use is by "Watson" ... and I like it. It is a generic form, Phamacia/Upjohn is the brand name version. The only difference I've observed between the two is the price. The "Watson" 10 ml. bottle goes for about $100 and the Pharmacia/Upjohn brand costs about $20 more. Hope this helps.
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I should add that my insurance will cover 80% of the costs. So the Androgel pump will cost me $60 a month or so.
Am I correct in saying that the only t-based steroid that a US doctor may legally prescribe is Test Cyp?
SE
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Thanks... I never considered that it may be so expensive. How were you feeling on the gel with a 1700+ test level? Much different than your current 7-800 level?
I personally haven't heard such, and I don't see why they would limit it to one ester of T. Sust was created specifically for TRT believe it or not. Anyway I really don't think Enanthate will have any less bloating than Cypionate? Why would it, because it's half life is 2-3 days shorter?
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Test Cyp at 300mgs every two weeks thats pretty week. But if you strictly using it to get your test levels up to a good amount the maybe its ok. But not enough prob to do much for muscle mass.
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Am I correct in saying that the only t-based steroid that a US doctor may legally prescribe is Test Cyp?
SE
Cyp. is certainly the most commonly prescribed. Remember the script is written for therapeutic rather than cosmetic (muscle building) or athletic performance reasons. To be honest... I'm not sure if the other esther forms are readily available in pharmacies. Perhaps Div., Arnold, Freak, Luv2Hurt or MEM could answer that question.
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I decided to go with the Androgel pump for now. It is prescribed in a box containing 2 75g pumps which I think is a one-month supply. With my insurance, the co-pay was $39 bucks.
It specifically says not to put in on your balls, but that's what everyone says is best.
This morning I weighed 240 lbs. at 5'10 or so. I'm about 58% BF.
One of the reasons I thought my T-levels were low was my lack of energy and the fact that I was having so much trouble burning fat despite doing cardio and restricting my calories. If you're interested, I'll create and keep a 30-day blog and post photos and updates.
Special "Sleeping Balls" Ed
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Dude,
If you're 240lbs, then your BF is more like 96%! Start another blog like the last one ::).
If your wife knows that the gear is for medical reasons, why don't you have her help you shoot instead of walking around with a load of sticky gel in your shorts?
I just got a bunch of stuff - I hope it's real. Doh!
Have you tried Clomid therapy? Sometimes that will work to up your T-count and you just pop a pill.
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I'll create and keep a 30-day blog and post photos and updates.
Do it.
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Do it.
I'm disappointed. I was hoping there was more than one gay fanboy. Any other takers?
SE
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I figure my first post as a newb should at least have some something relevant to it so here goes. I've been prescribed HRT for about 2 and a half years now and it has all been Test. E. Went through a clinic at first but my reg. doc was open to it so he handles it now. He had very little knowledge and let me recommend a dose of 400mg. a week. (very lucky for that). Go in and have blood work done, new 6 month script. Oh yeah - the Test E is Steris / Watson. 5ml vial. Still made. Expensive from a legit pharmacy. No ins. coverage. 84.00 a vial.
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I started the Androgel today. The directions say to only apply it to the arms, shoulders and stomach. It says explicitly DO NOT APPLY TO SCROTUM OR PENIS. I'm not quite sure why. So I applied it to my chest, legs, penis and balls. Balls felt like I had put "Icy Hot" on them. Went grocery shopping. Looked at lots of sub-par suburban housewives at A&P. Hmmm...possibly working. But no public boners. Hmmmm...maybe not.
SE
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You are not going to notice anything different for at least a week or two. Anything else is in your mind. You will soon be the second-most sexually frustrated man on the east coast.
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You are not going to notice anything different for at least a week or two. Anything else is in your mind. You will soon be the second-most sexually frustrated man on the east coast.
Androgel's accompanying clinical testing info states that in 98% of men, their bodies return to normal range within 30 MINUTES of the FIRST APPLICATION. Don't be jealous just because your penis only sails at half-mast.
Special "Chips Ahoy" Ed
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Ed,
could the solution of your problem be something else than steroids and drugs?
People rely more on drugs than nature itself. Heavy training, esp. squats and
deadlifts can be effective. For the body to work optimal it need carbs! and...
minerals & vitamines. (Lowcarb diets lowers test too) How is your diet??
U did some cycles years ago, why put yourself in this position again?
djohnsen
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Androgel's accompanying clinical testing info states that in 98% of men, their bodies return to normal range within 30 MINUTES of the FIRST APPLICATION. Don't be jealous just because your penis only sails at half-mast.
Special "Chips Ahoy" Ed
Dude,
You know you are in that 2%, so why fight it?
Do you need to watch out for gyno while on that stuff?
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Djohnsen, I never did any cycles nor did I take enough to shut down the nutty buddies. My diet is readily available to view at McDonalds.com. Thanks for your input.
Unskinny, Hopefully my gyno gets worse, so I can get it taken out via health plan.
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P.S. I have NEVER used what you guys call "gear" (steroids). All the muscle I gained was through lots of hard work and I guess the way my body is (make that was) shaped... kinda like a boxer (now a boxer with a belly). The only drugs I have used in my life were Ativan, klonopins, beer and nicotine... and guess what??? They're all legal and bad for you!!!
Hey bro,
I am hoping there are some Vets here that can better help you out with this. All I can tell you that from my personal experience (at 35) when I am on the gear I feel like I am 21 again, All around with sex, stamina, strenght, pretty much everything. I was taking Zoloft for the last 3 years for stress, and since a I started this cycle I got off because I was tired of the fact that a little pill was having so much control over my life, and I'll tell you what I am 4 weeks into this cycle and have never once wanted/needed to pop a Zoloft.. No need to, everything is good, If I get a little stressed I go lift..
Thats about all I have to offer, I hope you get it worked out. Remember this..drugs cover or mask alot of shit....... Try using your common sense and just do what you know is RIGHT ie, Don't smoke, Don't drink, eat well, its all commonsense bro
GOOD LUCK !!!
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why's your testosterone low? you a lifetime natural?
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Remember this..drugs cover or mask alot of shit....... Try using your common sense and just do what you know is RIGHT ie, Don't smoke, Don't drink, eat well, its all commonsense bro
Yes, I agree... sometimes you just need someone to remind you! All that crap makes your testosterone levels even lower!!! I think mine is somewhere at -3-0ng... something like that of a 110 year old dead lady in a basket. I will be seeing my doctor wednesday to get the results of my t-count (level). Regardless, I will try to get a prescribtion for androgel or testim from the bastard (let's hope he's not an ass and gives me one). thanks! ;D
Eric
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I'd like to know for my age (29) where should my t-levels be at (for free testosterone (direct) around what to what pg/ml)?
MUSTGETBIG,
Your "Free" or unbound Testosterone is usually expressed as a percentage of your "Total" Testosterone. The reference range used by the laboratory that tests me is between 2% and 4.8%
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I am using the 1% androgel myself.It was like night and day when it came to my sex drive.I went from not wanting it at all too not being able to get enough.
I have never heard of appling it too your balls but it does make sense about the whole "thin skin" thing .I think the inner part of your arm would fall into that catagory too.
I guess what I am saying is that androgel works,give it a month to really see the full effects.
Well ,I really didn't see any gains in muscle mass.But my sex drive was greatly improved.
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I am using the 1% androgel myself.It was like night and day when it came to my sex drive.I went from not wanting it at all too not being able to get enough.
I have never heard of appling it too your balls but it does make sense about the whole "thin skin" thing .I think the inner part of your arm would fall into that catagory too.
I guess what I am saying is that androgel works,give it a month to really see the full effects.
Well ,I really didn't see any gains in muscle mass.But my sex drive was greatly improved.
Why the hell do I keep hearing that the injectable kind is better... is it really? I've just ordered Androgel online so the docs can kiss my white ass! I know what my body needs and they don't so there. I want to be horney again! Especially when I see a girl... I want an erection!!!!!!!! I must have a boner everytime I see a hot girl period.
Do you guys feel me or WHAT?
eriic ;D
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Dude... Please refrain from using the word "boner" and "guys can you feel me in the same sentence" ::)
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Late to this thread . . . have NOT been around much.
I know . . . a somewhat dated topic.
Now, I don't know IF I want to get involved, with the
twist(s) in this thread handful or couple a posts'. . .
especially in the direction I want to go.
Earlier on in the thread, the mention of applying test
gel on the balls makes complete sense for a couple
of reasons. My father, as a MD, told me that these
are most absorptive (sp?) surfaces on the body, feet
(EG: not going bare foot on chemically sprayed lawns)
hands and balls. It makes sense . . .
I would consider gel (only) in this case.
or for those opposed to needles . . .
The ONLY possible down side thus recommendation
NOT to apply makes me wonder IF it cause *evoke
a harder (longer lasting) shut down of the testicles*,
But it works, Mr Proteins' situation (+1,700 mdl)
makes complete sense to me . . . very cool!
sidenote . . .
BTW, I am especially suspect of alcohol use
(especially beer) for undermining hormonal
balances. EG man'boobs from beer - eeek!
Do A V O I D B E E R altogether ! ! !
**weakness for me red wines . . .
a barrel belly is easily done.
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So you are saying that they make a Test Gel that you could spread on your balls?
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Why the hell do I keep hearing that the injectable kind is better... is it really? I've just ordered Androgel online so the docs can kiss my white ass! I know what my body needs and they don't so there. I want to be horney again! Especially when I see a girl... I want an erection!!!!!!!! I must have a boner everytime I see a hot girl period.
Do you guys feel me or WHAT?
eriic ;D
my docter said he has patients on injections and they go get a shot every 15 days.
but towards the 13 or 14 days some of the men become depressed or sluggish because their levels start to fall
I say if you can shot yourself up thats great use the shots but if you got to go to the docter then go with the gel ...no sense in letting your levels drop
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the mention of applying test gel on the balls makes complete sense for a couple
of reasons. My father, as a MD, told me that these
are most absorptive (sp?) surfaces on the body.
Makes sense to me applying it to your ballz. Just make sure you don't cut yourself while shaving down there. However the instructions on using the gel says specifiacally NOT to apply to your ballz. You would be better off following the instructions on where exactly to apply the gel. If it say not to apply to ballz... do not apply to ballz. :)
a harder (longer lasting) shut down of the testicles
A doctor told me that TRT can kill the testes... if they are still alive.
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13 or 14 days some of the men become depressed or sluggish because their levels start to fall
I say if you can shot yourself up thats great use the shots but if you got to go to the docter then go with the gel ...no sense in letting your levels drop
Why is it great to use the shots if you just said the men become depressed and sluggish? Doesn't sound great to me at all.
I see that the gel appears to be safer and more effective. Therefore, I will use the gel. ;D
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have you even started this yet this post has been up for almost a mounth.and i have read no progress yet?
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This guy says the the instructions says DO NOT APPLY TO THE NUT SACK OR PENIS.. But he did it anyway?
Aint nothing going on my sack that does not belong.
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LMAO hahahahahha ;D
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I'm on DAY FIVE of the Androgel. Jerked off twice in one sitting to some sweet DP videos. When I put it on my balls it STINGS. It's 67% alcohol. Tomorrow instead of rubbing it on, I'm gonna do two gello shots. How's that for an update?
Special "Balls Deep in Androgel" Ed
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Something makes me think Special Ed just likes to talk about his dick and balls ::)
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androgel did nothing but shut me down, completely............go with 200mg of test/10 days
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Sorry i really couldnt tell you all cause i dont use pussy shit Like gel's.
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androgel did nothing but shut me down, completely............go with 200mg of test/10 days
I N T E R E S T I N G . . .
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i gotta say...i'm disappointed in my androgel. not really feeling differently. don't think i'll refill.
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I dont think its gonna kick in for a little while its not like injecting the gear.
you have to remeber the gel has other stuff in it to like lotion and whatever else,then it has to get threw your pours in the skin.
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I started training again so I guess that will be the true measuring stick. Let's see how long before the little kids at the pool start running from me (the chicks already do that).
Ed
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why's your test low?
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why's your test low?
8 out of 10 men over the age of 30 have low test levels...i'm talking about lifetime naturals.
8)
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well if it's 8 out of 10 then the bar for "normal" is too high isn't it?
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well if it's 8 out of 10 then the bar for "normal" is too high isn't it?
are you a doctor?
didn't think so...
8)
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i thought you'd understand what that means... can't be any more clear.
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i thought you'd understand what that means... can't be any more clear.
of course i understood what you meant.
normal is only a baseline...
8)
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"Normal" is what is average. That's what makes in normal.
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tipically
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"Normal" is what is average. That's what makes in normal.
There is a difference between a baseline and normal...
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"Normal" is what is average. That's what makes in normal.
No shit sherlock.
8)
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How's things working out for you now, Ed?
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How's things working out for you now, Ed?
Worse than ever. For the first time, I lost bonage during sex. My sex drive is in the negative -- I see a hot chick and I get sleepy. This androgel has completely killed off what was left of my manliness. I think I'm getting just enough test for my balls to cut off their supply and too little to get any benefit.
So now the question is...do I go back to my doctor for Cyp or do I just get black market supplementation?
Special "Testim: A Cock and Ball Story" Ed
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Since you're too chickenshit to shoot yourself, I guess you're SOL. What are you gonna do - go to the Dr. every two weeks and wait a half hour for a shot that takes a minute?? Be a man and step UP or be a eunich the rest of your life.
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What does it mean if you are shooting blanks? Serious, lowad isnt what it oncewas. Does this have to do with test production or is it something else?
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What does it mean if you are shooting blanks? Serious, lowad isnt what it oncewas. Does this have to do with test production or is it something else?
I believe it's due to low t. Also guys with lower t-levels and excessive estrogen in their bodies are more likely to have a girl than a boy. Want a boy? Get rid of the estrogen and increase your testosterone levels!
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So is there a true legal supplement that helps restarts shut down test? What would be the effects of running a mild cycle and then doing a really solid pct in hope of restarting, would that work? Plan is to start 300mg/week tomorrow, 10 weeks...also with eq or deca....than a proper pct, then rest then get tested......thoughts?
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So is there a true legal supplement that helps restarts shut down test? What would be the effects of running a mild cycle and then doing a really solid pct in hope of restarting, would that work? Plan is to start 300mg/week tomorrow, 10 weeks...also with eq or deca....than a proper pct, then rest then get tested......thoughts?
Again, running a cycle followed by proper PCT is not going to get your natural levels back up to snuff...it does NOT work that way!
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Did your doctor prescribe this? Or are you going on your own. I am being treated for adrenal failure and low testosterone. My doctor put me on 250ml of test to gain some muscle tone back.
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So is there a true legal supplement that helps restarts shut down test?
That would be nice if their was a "natural" supplement to up your t-levels (istead of using drugs and risking having your testes shut down). I've heard of natural herbs such as Tongkat Ali (testosterone booster), Horney Goat Weed (supposed to increase t-levels), Tribulus Terrestris (only benefits those who have below normal t-level, will not raise t in those with normal range) and Siberian Ginseng (tonic for male glands). I think you'd recieve better results by cycling these herbs. So do these supplements really work... I don't know. I imagine you'd have to take them religiously for at least 6 months to even notice anything.
What would be the effects of running a mild cycle and then doing a really solid pct in hope of restarting, would that work? Plan is to start 300mg/week tomorrow, 10 weeks...also with eq or deca....than a proper pct, then rest then get tested......thoughts?
If your problem is shooting blanks... the cycle you speak of won't help. If your trying to have kids you need to concentrate on your testosterone and how to raise it to a high enough level (without going berzerk in the process).
I plan to use a product such as Testim or Androgel for a month to raise my t-levels (if this proves ineffective I may need to shoot up) all the while taking supplements such as Horney Goat Weed, Tribulus Terrestris, Siberian Ginseng and a good multi-vitamin to prevent my testes from shutting down.
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Worse than ever. For the first time, I lost bonage during sex. My sex drive is in the negative -- I see a hot chick and I get sleepy. This androgel has completely killed off what was left of my manliness. I think I'm getting just enough test for my balls to cut off their supply and too little to get any benefit.
Androgel is an effective drug for men that have had some testesterone loss. It is not effective for a major drop in testesterone. If your testesterone is 220 ng/dl and lower ask your doctor for Striant. It is placed on your gum twice per day (unless you'd rather go with the shots). Very convenient and much more effective if you have very low levels.
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will it give you mouth cancer?
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Again, running a cycle followed by proper PCT is not going to get your natural levels back up to snuff...it does NOT work that way!
why wouldnt? are you saying he has an underlying problem since he hasnt been taking juice? What about someone who has been taking juice for a while and got their test levels checked and they were low because he didnt taper off right or do PCT corrrectly? Wouldnt it be smart for someone to get back on to so they could taper off right and follow a good PCT?
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why wouldnt? are you saying he has an underlying problem since he hasnt been taking juice? What about someone who has been taking juice for a while and got their test levels checked and they were low because he didnt taper off right or do PCT corrrectly? Wouldnt it be smart for someone to get back on to so they could taper off right and follow a good PCT?
Yes the the person who Arnold is reffering to is hypogonadal, so his levels will not rebound back into the normal range.
To answer your question at the bottom, I once did a cycle with a crappy PCT......well I was having a terrible time recovering, all kinds of problems! This was not getting much better with time either. So I decided to after 4 months of misery to jump back on another cycle with plans for a strict PCT. Well it worked great! after the good PCT I felt fine and did not really show any symptoms. Felt good and helped me keep my gains better.
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there it is and that's my plan a very mild test cycle and very proper pct and a doc visit to get retested...hopefully I am up to snuff, producing normally and wont be using gear again....
250mg/wk test
400mg eq/week 1-10
clomid, nolv and hcg
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there it is and that's my plan a very mild test cycle and very proper pct and a doc visit to get retested...hopefully I am up to snuff, producing normally and wont be using gear again....
250mg/wk test
400mg eq/week 1-10
clomid, nolv and hcg
are you reading the posts dude?
doing a cycle will NOT make your natural test kick back in...
replacement therapy is usually a lifetime choice...
i suggest you read up on it more.
8)
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I know and I am having low test problems....My proposed cycle is not hrt...it's to give me a boost....then hit a pct then get tested to see if I can restart myself. With me?
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(1) A cycle - (2) HRT - (3) PCT
ARE EACH D I F F E R E N T THINGS - NOT interchangable, as suggested . . .
Any (effective) cycle - requires PCT post treatment, to start things back up.
(the cells in the testes [DIE off] and the sytem needs to be restored)
HRT IS PERMANENT - NO PCT required or will NOT help - Period.
the hormonal system has shut down - WILL NOT come back up - Period.
U N C L E !
I give!
PCT - Post Cycle Treatment, done after you have finished,
the most practical/beneficial sustance IS HCG
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I knew of a guy who had been on cycle for years with very few breaks and his natural levels were non-existence. He and his wife were trying to have a baby but because of his condition there was no way. So, this is what he did, bear in mind, I'm not telling you to do this, it's just what he did and it worked. He had been off all gear for nearly 8months but still nothing was working, so he got on a large dose of HCG very large, if I remember correctly, he stayed on it for 4 or 5 wks at 2000-3000 iu's ed. After that he got on nolva for another month, I can't remember the dose, but it seemed to work, he and his wife now have a little baby boy.
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(1) A cycle - (2) HRT - (3) PCT
ARE EACH D I F F E R E N T THINGS - NOT interchangable, as suggested . . .
Any (effective) cycle - requires PCT post treatment, to start things back up.
(the cells in the testes [DIE off] and the sytem needs to be restored)
HRT IS PERMANENT - NO PCT required or will NOT help - Period.
the hormonal system has shut down - WILL NOT come back up - Period.
U N C L E !
I give!
PCT - Post Cycle Treatment, done after you have finished,
the most practical/beneficial sustance IS HCG
I said the same thing...reason for 250 a week vs 100 hrt dose
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Well then IT seems like more a matter of scemantics (sp?). . .
I think that Aj(?) and I are on the same track,
I would do a month run of HCG to see IF you
can approach baseline hormone levels.
AND I F? that does not work then? DO HRT?
You appear intersted in, HRT at higher than prescribed levels.
Best have Nolvedex on hand for IF you have gyno issues - just in case.
or better yet Arimidex (no estrogen conversion), or like.
But please stop thinking of it *like a cycle*, its e i t h e r or . . .
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Well then IT seems like more a matter of scemantics (sp?). . .
I think that Aj(?) and I are on the same track,
I would do a month run of HCG to see IF you
can approach baseline hormone levels.
AND I F? that does not work then? DO HRT?
You appear intersted in, HRT at higher than prescribed levels.
Best have Nolvedex on hand for IF you have gyno issues - just in case.
or better yet Arimidex (no estrogen conversion), or like.
But please stop thinking of it *like a cycle*, its e i t h e r or . . .
Yes, a good run of HCG might be what works for him, if that doesn't then getting his natural levels back will not happen...hrt is going to be the only other option.
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I recently got my bloodwork done and I asked for test levels which I suspected were low. Sure enough, my T was 231, which is average for a 90-year old man, a nine year old boy, or a horny 30-year old woman, but ridiculously low for a 30 year old guy.
Anywho, the doc said he could prescribe me gel or refer me to an endocrinologist. Since everyone is badmouthing the gel, I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions that a reasonable endocrinologist would entertain. Does anyone know what types of juice US doctors would prescribe under the circumstances.
Thanks mates!
Special "EstrogenMan" Ed
Unfortunately, there is no truly effective way to deliver a non 17-alpha alkylated steroid other than through intramuscular injection. The best way to slowly saturate your blood with a drug is to allow the capillaries to slowly absorb it. The gel is a scam: it saturates the blood quickly, thus not giving any time for T to stimulate an increase in muscle protein syntesis through an increase in the RNA-transcryptase enzyme. The gel is ok to get you horny for sex, but it's anbolic effects are slim to nil. Regards. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Ive been clean thus far, just trying to gain some really lean mass, and am afraid that with low test and 4,200 it'll all be fat....my abs are already starting to blurr and I am only 165lbs at 6'2....everything Ive read says that low dose of 250mg is a good jump kick in the ass, allows you to eat and use the food more efficiently, can stay on for 20+ weeks, and after pct, much easier to recover.....hoping I could gain 25-30lbs with a good high calorie diet and intense training.
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but if you're 165 didn't you gain 10 pounds already. chin up!
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yeah but Im fading...think its due to my low test
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what does fading mean? talking about abs? if you lost the abs that quick maybe try to cut the calories a tiny bit. According to the rule bodyweight X 18 you should be eating 2900-3000
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4,200......that x18 doesnt mean jack...it's all about MRB....activity level......abs fading, due to excess cals, but scale is moving cleanly and clothing still very loose........
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4200 is a LOT. you'll gain weight when muscle grows. that 18X stuff is just an example or ballpark estimate. yes of course the scale is going up. you're getting fat.
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yes of course the scale is going up. you're getting fat.
Oh man, don't tell him that, you're going to freak him out...he's already got enough mental frustrations when it comes to the whole "getting fat" thing. :'(
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but he actually has control over that. 4200 for a guy 165? I think he should talk to Milos.
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you insane...I'm 30...I train 2x a day...I eat 4,200 clean cals....relax dude.....fat? Never....blurred definition, probably...at this point, I want to be 15lbs overweight than 20lbs under......at 165 I shouold eat anything not nailed down...plus if I use test (low dose) ill need even more!
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why do you train 2x a day?
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you insane...I'm 30...I train 2x a day...I eat 4,200 clean cals....relax dude.....fat? Never....blurred definition, probably...at this point, I want to be 15lbs overweight than 20lbs under......at 165 I shouold eat anything not nailed down...plus if I use test (low dose) ill need even more!
2 x a day , man you are superman ?
what is point training twica a day !
, could you take a brake between two workouts !?
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trhere's guys that train twice a day. guys like lee priest and arnold schwarzenegger.
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its no different than most...it's small bodypart in am with ligt cardio - max 40 minutes
larger bp in pm, max 1 hr....total is usually 1.5 hours...many dudes are in the gym for 2 hours a day, o I am actually getting more done in a shorter period.
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Fine. You've established here you don't wanna have any part of what I have to say. Keep doing that. In a couple of weeks I anticipate you having another meltdown because your training is destroying you. get off the cardio already and train hard. training hard IS cardio, or do you remove your heart and entire respiratory system when you lift weights? "cardo" which I'll call aerobics from now on is the number one destroyer of small guys and especially guys with low hormone levels. i know cause i started as a skinnier than death guy and made all those mistakes.
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its mild man.....low intensity, incline walk on treadmill...........
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Well,
I just received my Androgel (actually it's the pharmacy compunded gel, not the actual Androgel itself) today (finally) and am starting off at 2 cc's (1 GM in the morning and another in the evening). I'll let you know if this shit really works or what.
Pay attention to Cartman's facial expression... if you see a smile on his face that means all is good if he's still with that miserable look than forget about it!
Screw you guy's I'm going home,
Cartman
:-X
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If you have low test levels, maybe you could do "cycles" of nolvadex and maybe some clomid as well. Do one month cyles with two to three months break in between. It seems to work for me. My balls are at least 10 to 20% bigger, I'm hornier and have normal sexual function compared to last year when I noticed I was starting to have issues in that area.
I had three blood tests last year because of this issue, the first test showed that testosterone was below the normal range (though the night before I drank alot of alcohol and only slept a few hours). The other two tests came back low normal testosterone. I feel that doing these PCT's have probably brought my test levels up to the middle of the normal range. I'm going to retest my levels at the end of the year to early next year to see where I'm at.
Also, try to do other things that improve test levels naturally, such as getting a solid 8 hours of sleep, eating adequate calories with a decent amount of fat, get all your vitamins especially zinc, don't let your bodyfat get too high (increases estrogen which lowers testosterone), get a good amount of sunlight or bright light especially in the morning, fish oil, don't train hard every day it will lower test levels (it's proven by many scientific studies).
Here is a message on another forum from a guy who tried various methods of hormone replacement therapy and he recorded his test levels every month or so, check out his test levels when he went on the nolvadex only protocol, and also his comments, it is a very interesting read....
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/lots-lab-results-using-134240785.html (http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/lots-lab-results-using-134240785.html)
Good luck...
I forgot to mention that I've never taken any steroids in my life.
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you insane...I'm 30...I train 2x a day...I eat 4,200 clean cals....relax dude.....fat? Never....blurred definition, probably...at this point, I want to be 15lbs overweight than 20lbs under......at 165 I shouold eat anything not nailed down...plus if I use test (low dose) ill need even more!
Training twice a day may result in 1. high levels of cortisol (a catabolic, muscle wasting hormone). 2. Lower levels of testosterone and higher levels of estrogen. 3. Inadequate recovery necesaary for gains in both muscle and strength
Sounds like body destroying not body building to me.
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No more two a days........it's 2 bp per day in the afternoon - 45min -1 hr max all out
cardio in am
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I've been on this 10% testosterone gel for 3 weeks now, only on the second week did I find that I needed to take Anastrozole (anti-estrogen) so that may have set me back a week. Since starting the therapy I started training again hoping that it would help boost my levels more quickly. I hear that it takes 3-6 weeks for this shit to work and I'm already getting frustrated! I'm thinking I should have gone with the injectable T... and I will if this damn gel doesnt kick in soon!
I do have some good news though... I've worked out nine whole days in a period of three weeks and my body is already bulging which is ok I guess... I just don't know if I can keep it up! I believe my motivation was thinking that the gel was going to kick in and give me that boost that I needed... and together with the Anastrozole... why not right?
Anyhow I'm thinking on injecting the T instead because I'm getting impatient with this gel. The only thing that bothers me is the highs and lows from injectables... I don't think I'll be able to handle the lows! Any advice would be great!
Cartman
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I've been on this 10% testosterone gel for 3 weeks now, only on the second week did I find that I needed to take Anastrozole (anti-estrogen) so that may have set me back a week. Since starting the therapy I started training again hoping that it would help boost my levels more quickly. I hear that it takes 3-6 weeks for this shit to work and I'm already getting frustrated! I'm thinking I should have gone with the injectable T... and I will if this damn gel doesnt kick in soon!
I do have some good news though... I've worked out nine whole days in a period of three weeks and my body is already bulging which is ok I guess... I just don't know if I can keep it up! I believe my motivation was thinking that the gel was going to kick in and give me that boost that I needed... and together with the Anastrozole... why not right?
Anyhow I'm thinking on injecting the T instead because I'm getting impatient with this gel. The only thing that bothers me is the highs and lows from injectables... I don't think I'll be able to handle the lows! Any advice would be great!
Cartman
Your motivation should be the same whether you're using anything or not. If you need the extra stuff just for motivation, then you have no business using it in the first place...don't be a cycle warrior.
As far as highs and lows from injectables, if you run your stuff properly, then this does not exist. Learn proper dosing and injection frequency and your levels will be fine.
BTW, gels are a waste.
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and we are helping this retard out because??????
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and we are helping this retard out because??????
Hey, retards need the most help ;)
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If you need the extra stuff just for motivation, then you have no business using it in the first place...don't be a cycle warrior.
When you have no strength or energy it's pretty damn hard to find any motivation. In order to work out effectively you need strength, power and energy. When your t is low how the hell can you train period? Trust me I don't intend to be a cycle warrior... I just want my levels normal 1000 ng or more and if I can keep it that way without anymore injections and without being a cycle junkie that would be great!
As far as highs and lows from injectables, if you run your stuff properly, then this does not exist. Learn proper dosing and injection frequency and your levels will be fine.
BTW, gels are a waste.
I will be getting the injectables soon, and yes I now see that the gels are a waste.
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and we are helping this retard out because??????
Nice pic u got their whitewidow... I take it your obsessed with Freddy Prince jr. don't forget to use some vaseline. ::)