Low Testosterone - Choices

[Special Ed]

I recently got my bloodwork done and I asked for test levels which I suspected were low. Sure enough, my T was 231, which is average for a 90-year old man, a nine year old boy, or a horny 30-year old woman, but ridiculously low for a 30 year old guy.

Anywho, the doc said he could prescribe me gel or refer me to an endocrinologist. Since everyone is badmouthing the gel, I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions that a reasonable endocrinologist would entertain. Does anyone know what types of juice US doctors would prescribe under the circumstances.

Thanks mates!

Special "EstrogenMan" Ed

[theman]

I recently got my bloodwork done and I asked for test levels which I suspected were low. Sure enough, my T was 231, which is average for a 90-year old man, a nine year old boy, or a horny 30-year old woman, but ridiculously low for a 30 year old guy.

Anywho, the doc said he could prescribe me gel or refer me to an endocrinologist. Since everyone is badmouthing the gel, I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions that a reasonable endocrinologist would entertain. Does anyone know what types of juice US doctors would prescribe under the circumstances.

Thanks mates!

Special "EstrogenMan" Ed

I am on the gels - and report no problems whatsoever.  In fact, my total T and free T levels are consistently in the upper third of the range - while DHT and Estradiol remain in the normal range.  No need for anti-E's as well.  Hell, I was on 7.5 mg Androgel and that pushed me WAY above my physiological range LOL

Short answer - try gels.  If they don't get you where YOU and your doctor think you need to be - then make the switch to injectables.

It's that simple bro...

[Special Ed]

Questions for The Man:

1. Which gel are you on?
2. How often do you put it on?
3. Where do you put it?
4. What were your T-levels before and after?

Thx.

Special "High Pitch Eric" Ed

[blondmusclhunk]

Testim is better than androgel.  But if you want Test for any muscle building effects the gels dont work

[Luv2Hurt]

You never really explained what got you where you are now?  Why did you suspect your T was low? Were you cycling gear?  Would be good to know what kind of cycle you did and for how long?  How many cycles have you done?  What kind of anncilaries and PCT did you do?  How long have you been off the gear?

This info would help in offering advice or thoughts on the matter.

[Special Ed]

Haven't touched gear in seven years. Never did any real cycles. Some equipoise here, anavar and primo there. Nothing serious and nothing at all in the past 7 years. I had my T levels checked because I used to want to bang coke machines and now I don't even look twice at a payphone change slot. Seriously, I read that up to 50% men who are diagnosed with depression are actually suffering from low T-levels and I haven't felt normal in about a year. That's my story...what's your advice?

SE

[BallzDeep69]

Are you under alot of stress?  Do you work alot of hours, and sleep little?  Are you eating enough?  Not overtraining are you?  You are training right?

All those alone or together can kill your T levels.

At 30 it seems that 500-800ng/dl is the norm, which is where you should be.

[Luv2Hurt]

Hey Ed I think you are on the right track then, see what you think of the gels your doc wants to put you on.  Best to start conservative in your treatment. 

After a few months see how you are feeling, have the levels rechecked in 6 months or so.  As the other member stated the things he mentioned can also lead to depression and decreased T. 

Are you using any recreational drugs or drinking?

[Special Ed]

No rec drugs or drinking but my training has been sporadic. I priced out Testim at 260 for 30 packs and 315 for a pump of Androgel. Does that sound kosher?

Ed

[BallzDeep69]

I guess, but at your age I don't think you should give up getting your natrual levels up just yet.  I mean you know you don't have hypogonadism right?  If you do, then screw the gel and get on test cyp immediatley starting at 100mg/wk and work up from there if necessary.

[blondmusclhunk]

That's way to expensive for that stuff.  Do you have insurance.  A doctor could get you that stuff for less than 100 bucks.  If your going to want a good boost and want to build muscle stick with the hard core stuff.  If all you want is a good libido enhancer than use the testim or andro gel.

[Mr.Protein]

Ed,
I've done both the gel and injectable Test.  The gel is expensive but convenient.  I applied it to my scrotum daily.  I never experienced any irritation or uncomfortable sides.  Any spot where the skin is thin (shins below the knees, underside of the arm for example) and no hair is present will result in the greatest amount of absorbtion and produce the highest level of exo test.  Yes... I did shave my nut sack to clear away the hair.  The directions said not to apply it there but WTF do they know.  I was able to get my Test. level up to 1760 ng./dl. by slobbering enough of it on me. My compounder knew his shit. 

Brand name transdermal Test. is the most expensive,  "Androgel" was ridiculous.  A compounding pharmacy can sell you a much more reasonably priced product.  There is both a cream and a gel.  The cream is a little messy but the gel soaks right in and leaves no residue.

I much prefer the injectable form of administering the hormone.  My present HRT plan calls for 300 mgs. of Cypionate every 2 weeks.  At first I didn't like the idea of sinking a 23g., 1 inch spike into my delts and quads but now I actually look forward to doing it.  My Test. level was 228 ng./dl. before I began... my most recent level was 674 ng./dl.

I know what you mean about feeling somewhat depressed.  Using the Cypionate has made a difference for me.    

Try and get the injectable form if your doc will prescribe it.  Good Luck

[Captain Equipoise]

To answer your question on injectables, the only two types of injectable available in the US/Canada are Cypionate and until recently Enanthate (which has been discontinued)

[BallzDeep69]

Ed,
I've done both the gel and injectable Test.  The gel is expensive but convenient.  I applied it to my scrotum daily.  I never experienced any irritation or uncomfortable sides.  Any spot where the skin is thin (shins below the knees, underside of the arm for example) and no hair is present will result in the greatest amount of absorbtion and produce the highest level of exo test.  Yes... I did shave my nut sack to clear away the hair.  The directions said not to apply it there but WTF do they know.  I was able to get my Test. level up to 1760 ng./dl. by slobbering enough of it on me. My compounder knew his shit. 

Brand name transdermal Test. is the most expensive,  "Androgel" was ridiculous.  A compounding pharmacy can sell you a much more reasonably priced product.  There is both a cream and a gel.  The cream is a little messy but the gel soaks right in and leaves no residue.

I much prefer the injectable form of administering the hormone.  My present HRT plan calls for 300 mgs. of Cypionate every 2 weeks.  At first I didn't like the idea of sinking a 23g., 1 inch spike into my delts and quads but now I actually look forward to doing it.  My Test. level was 228 ng./dl. before I began... my most recent level was 674 ng./dl.

I know what you mean about feeling somewhat depressed.  Using the Cypionate has made a difference for me.    

Try and get the injectable form if your doc will prescribe it.  Good Luck

Sounds like you were better off with the gel...  Nearly 3 times the level you have with the cypionate.

Why can't you build muscle with the gel?  Isn't a high test level all the same no matter how it gets there?

[Mr.Protein]

Sounds like you were better off with the gel...  Nearly 3 times the level you have with the cypionate.

Why can't you build muscle with the gel?  Isn't a high test level all the same no matter how it gets there?

If I had done more than 300 Mgs. of Cyp. IM every 2 weeks I could have surpassed the gel level I achieved.

I see the logic of your question, however, since Test. is Test. regardless of the attached esther or delivery method.

One advantage of daily transdermal applications is stability.  Make no mistake... a stable level of the hormone is very desirable and important.

[bigjohn_bluesfan]

No rec drugs or drinking but my training has been sporadic. I priced out Testim at 260 for 30 packs and 315 for a pump of Androgel. Does that sound kosher?

Ed

In that case I would tell the doctors to fuck off and order some test- e  from a good UG at 25-35 bucks

[BallzDeep69]

If I had done more than 300 Mgs. of Cyp. IM every 2 weeks I could have surpassed the gel level I achieved.

I see the logic of your question, however, since Test. is Test. regardless of the attached esther or delivery method.

One advantage of daily transdermal applications is stability.  Make no mistake... a stable level of the hormone is very desirable and important.

I think you should be doing two shots a week at 100mg.  That would put you in the upper normal range, around say 1000-1200 pretty steadily too.

So you can still make some gains off Trans test I'm sure right?  As long as you use enough...  Like you said you could use it twice a day if you wanted too...

[Mr.Protein]

I think you should be doing two shots a week at 100mg.  That would put you in the upper normal range, around say 1000-1200 pretty steadily too.

So you can still make some gains off Trans test I'm sure right?  As long as you use enough...  Like you said you could use it twice a day if you wanted too...

Ballz,
I'm no expert.  Any knowledge I have is based on my own experience, research and the questions I've asked the medical folks who have treated me for hypogonadism.

That being said... I feel you can make some modest gains off the transdermal Test. provided you haven't worn out your receptors or elevated your resistance level with previous AAS use.

I used the gel when I was also using HGH.  Both were prescribed for me by an anti-aging doc.  I couldn't afford to continue the HGH or that doctor.  I then went to my regular doctor who is an internal medicine, family practice guy and he surprised me by agreeing to prescribe the Cyp.

I did make some nice gains off the gel/HGH protocol.  Hard to tell which was responsible but it was probably due to the synergy of using both.  I especially liked the lean, tight look it produced due its fat mobilization properties.

Using a transdermal form you should be able to raise your Test. to the supraphysiological level necessary to build muscle but I'm quite certain it will be much more expensive than using Test.Cypionate IM.  One disadvantage of using the Cyp. IM is edema... be prepared for some water retention -  diet, cardio and consistent training become MORE important not less important.

Captain Equipoise stated only Cypionate is now available in the US.  This is probably true but not long ago I was offered a 5 ml. of Enanthate manufactured by Pharmacia/Upjohn when the Cypionate I ordinarily use was unavailable.  I declined the 5 ml. of E and waited a few days until they got the 10 ml. bottle of Cyp.  The Cyp. I use is by "Watson" ... and I like it.  It is a generic form, Phamacia/Upjohn is the brand name version.  The only difference I've observed between the two is the price.  The "Watson" 10 ml. bottle goes for about $100 and the Pharmacia/Upjohn brand costs about $20 more.  Hope this helps. 

[Special Ed]

I should add that my insurance will cover 80% of the costs. So the Androgel pump will cost me $60 a month or so.

Am I correct in saying that the only t-based steroid that a US doctor may legally prescribe is Test Cyp?

SE

[BallzDeep69]

Thanks... I never considered that it may be so expensive.  How were you feeling on the gel with a 1700+ test level?  Much different than your current 7-800 level?


I personally haven't heard such, and I don't see why they would limit it to one ester of T.  Sust was created specifically for TRT believe it or not.  Anyway I really don't think Enanthate will have any less bloating than Cypionate?  Why would it, because it's half life is 2-3 days shorter? 

[blondmusclhunk]

Test Cyp at 300mgs every two weeks thats pretty week.  But if you strictly using it to get your test levels up to a good amount the maybe its ok.  But not enough prob to do much for muscle mass.

[Mr.Protein]

Am I correct in saying that the only t-based steroid that a US doctor may legally prescribe is Test Cyp?

SE

Cyp. is certainly the most commonly prescribed.  Remember the script is written for therapeutic rather than cosmetic (muscle building) or athletic performance reasons.  To be honest... I'm not sure if the other esther forms are readily available in pharmacies. Perhaps Div., Arnold, Freak, Luv2Hurt or MEM could answer that question.

[Special Ed]

I decided to go with the Androgel pump for now. It is prescribed in a box containing 2 75g pumps which I think is a one-month supply. With my insurance, the co-pay was $39 bucks.

It specifically says not to put in on your balls, but that's what everyone says is best.

This morning I weighed 240 lbs. at 5'10 or so. I'm about 58% BF.

One of the reasons I thought my T-levels were low was my lack of energy and the fact that I was having so much trouble burning fat despite doing cardio and restricting my calories. If you're interested, I'll create and keep a 30-day blog and post photos and updates.

Special "Sleeping Balls" Ed

[unskinny]

Dude,
If you're 240lbs, then your BF is more like 96%!  Start another blog like the last one . 
If your wife knows that the gear is for medical reasons, why don't you have her help you shoot instead of walking around with a load of sticky gel in your shorts?
I just got a bunch of stuff - I hope it's real.  Doh!

Have you tried Clomid therapy?  Sometimes that will work to up your T-count and you just pop a pill.

[Rimbaud]

I'll create and keep a 30-day blog and post photos and updates.

Do it.