Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Vince B on August 01, 2006, 11:58:49 PM
-
I listened to the radio broadcast and Lee Priest remained calm throughout and made some statements that cannot be ignored. If the IFBB rules state that it is against the rules to use steroids then most professionals are breaking the rules in the Olympia. Can anyone deny or refute this?
Lee is absolutely correct that the IFBB rules are not been enforced except to 'punish' those who do not do what they are told. Lee says the IFBB rules are crap. I agree. I think anyone who reads the constitution of the IFBB and rulebook will agree it has as much integrity as the old USSR constitution that sounded more democratic than the Western democracies. We all know the communists countries were not democracies because you could not remove the government. In the IFBB you cannot remove the president. So that organization is not democratic. It is a dictatorship and now a business. It is not a body governing a sport but a group who makes up rules to control the bodybuilders.
Lee is right. Few bodybuilding men have any 'balls' to speak their minds. Most complain but when approached by officials in the IFBB they cooperate and keep quiet.
What wasn't said in the interview is that Lee probably doesn't like the judging process of the IFBB. He did say he wasn't complaining about the judging but didn't like the rules.
So, is the IFBB being fair in enforcing that bodybuilders are not allowed to compete in other organizations but do not do drug testing or suspend people for felonies and unsavoury behaviour (doing porn, for example).
I wonder if I will ever be invited to appear on Pro bodybuilding weekly? If they think Lee is controversial wait until they hear what I have to say!
-
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=86861.0
-
How many times has this rule been enforced?
9.4 Threats/Assaults:
Any Member who threatens an Athlete, Judge or Official by word or gesture will
be immediately suspended for a period of time to be determined by the Pro
Committee. Any Member who physically assaults an Athlete, Judge or Official
will be immediately expelled.
-
No offense, but you won't be invited.
I think Lee feels he's doing the right thing, and I think he is as well. I think he was also invited on the show to partake in exactly what unraveled. No matter how they try to hide it, Bob and Shawn ganged up and shouted over Lee and cut him off countless times. It was O'Reilly times 10. Lee remained cool and just kept bringing up the fact that the position the IFBB is taking is indefinitely wrong.
-
yeah, he's correct. the IFBB should enforce all rules, or enforce none. he's got a point but if he does the PDI show, he's gonna get screwed. i do think lee wants to change things but he will never do it alone. and he's in this one alone. he could file a lawsuit but man that could get ugly fast. he could end the Jose Canseco of bodybuilding.
-
I wonder about a rule re calves having cuts. I wonder what deduction gynocomastia entails in the judging?
Was Arnold suspended for competing in the 1970 NABBA Universe? Etc. Seems to me Lee is correct and the IFBB enforces exactly the rules that protect the organization but do not benefit the bodybuilders.
By the way, no one can remove Paul Graham as a vice-president representing Australia. There are no elections over here and when some tried to remove Paul years ago he just changed the name of the organization downunder. He also controls bodybuilding a la Ben. It is very much a closed organization.
-
Basically the IFBB is a company that charges it employees to work for them. The employees do all the work, do all the promoting and take all the sacrifices while the employer (IFBB) reaps all the riches with absolutely 100% indemnity(?).It's really that simple. And even worse than an employer cause for all the employees do to promote the employer and them money they recieve nothing back.
No pay
No insurance
No retirement fund
No security
No support
No legal counsel
No freedom
No profit sharing
No Christmas Party
No paid vacations
No per diem
No residuals
No roid allowance
So basically the BB's who compete in the IFBB are..................... ..........
-
Basically the IFBB is a company that charges it employees to work for them. The employees do all the work, do all the promoting and take all the sacrifices while the employer (IFBB) reaps all the riches with absolutely 100% indemnity(?).It's really that simple. And even worse than an employer cause for all the employees do to promote the employer and them money they recieve nothing back.
No pay
No insurance
No retirement fund
No security
No support
No legal counsel
No freedom
No profit sharing
No Christmas Party
No paid vacations
No per diem
No residuals
No roid allowance
So basically the BB's who compete in the IFBB are..................... ..........
But Keith will the PDI be any better? I guess we'll see soon enough...
-
I wonder what deduction gynocomastia entails in the judging?
You can win the Mr. O with clear and visable gyno (while claiming to be natural as well) ::)
-
You know, there was Shawn and Chick grilling Lee about competing outside the IFBB and I wondered if they were puppets like Lee claims Bob is? Do they actually believe the rules or do they obey them because if they don't advocate doing so THEY get the boot and lose whatever association they have with the IFBB re reps and promoters. Bob boasts about what he has done for bodybuilders. Who would want his job, anyway? Lee is arguing more for bodybuilders than Bob can while being an official member of the IFBB. The IFBB was once the rebel organization and they promoted free contests that were judged on bodybuilding alone. That was what made them popular and soon Larry Scott and Hugo Labra and Don Howarth and Don Peters and the other lads in California were competing for the IFBB. Chuck Sipes belonged and so did Dave Draper. So did Harold Poole who couldn't win the AAU Mr America because he had a stutter. As long as what the IFBB did benefitted the bodybuilders they were approved of by the bodybuilders. Somehow that power corrupted the IFBB and today look at the mess they have created. Drugs are rife, controversies are endless, and professional bodybuilders cannot survive on what they earn from the sport. We except the few who can. The vast majority holding pro cards make nothing. It costs them to be a professional.
You know, there have been many very good bodybuilders who have been stars in Australia and who went overseas searching for their fortunes. Guys like Terry Mitsos and Adrian Batho came home penniless. John Terelli failed to bring home the bacon. We wonder how Luke is going to fare over there. Only Lee Priest has been a successful professional and from what he tells us his racing is more rewarding than bodybuilding. Lee is popular because he is huge and has unbelievable arms and other bodyparts. I have no doubt supplement companies would love to get his endorsement. However, like I said, Lee is the exception and the rest make nothing out of bodybuilding. Terelli bought a gym in Sydney and Mitsos has a gym. If anyone thinks that the gym business is related to bodybuilding they are mistaken. Batho had two gyms but ended up with none. Paul Graham has a gym but makes more through his other business interests. So there you are. The reality is vastly different from what we read on these forums.
The IFBB had DeMilia running pro contests then had a fall out and gave him the boot. Look at what they are trying to do to him now. That shows how ruthless the IFBB is and I wonder how those who belong to the IFBB can be proud of what they are doing and the state of bodybuilding today. Like Lee said, why don't doctors show up at the Olympia and test all competitors and disqualify everyone?! They are not going to do that so Lee is right that the IFBB is a hypocritical organization that has no integrity at all. Well, not enough to hold their heads high. Those blue blazers do not bestow honour at all. I know judging is a thankless job. However, that whole process has to be rethought.
I listen to Bob say stuff about the bodybuilding scene. Then I see they still count the posedown in contests. Well, they needed the posedown to make sure Bev Francis didn't win a Ms Olympia. She might have won but luckily the errant judges corrected their scores during the posedown. Get rid of that stupid posedown as part of the contest. Have it only for a show. I don't know how bodybuilding has turned into a circus. We have ended up having clowns running everything and no wonder now it is all a big joke.
-
Since those are internal rules of a private company I dont think its anyone buisness.
If anyone dont like it he/she can quit,no one is making them stay.
If your boss do things that you dont like what do you do? Shut up or quit...same here.
Stop being cry babies.The truth is that if the IFBB will breakdown BB will be demolished as a sport.It will take years to get back to where its at now.
-
Since those are internal rules of a private company I dont think its anyone buisness.
If anyone dont like it he/she can quit,no one is making them stay.
If your boss do things that you dont like what do you do? Shut up or quit...same here.
Stop being cry babies.The truth is that if the IFBB will breakdown BB will be demolished as a sport.It will take years to get back to where its at now.
Very true, it's all a game just like any job. Most companies have rules where just some of them are enforced. And then they end up with unhappy employees....gee just like Lee and others in the IFBB.
-
Lloyd Landis tested positive for testosterone after his Tour de France cycling win. Read what someone wrote about drugs ruining sports.
http://thefacts.com/story.lasso?ewcd=f593b8bab00cb3e3
Ben Johnson broke the world record in the 100 metre sprint in Korea in 1988. Today he is now remembered for being a drug cheat.
What is the situation in our beloved bodybuilding? There are no drug tests at the professional level. It is now common knowledge that every top competitor in the Olympia uses who knows what to compete. How in hell is bodybuilding going to be accepted if most use drugs and there is no testing? Answer: never!
The IFBB are now in a tight corner because the rival professional organization of DeMilia would attract open competitors is the IFBB seriously clamped down on drug use. You know, surprise testing 3 times a year for all competitors and life bans for usage. Life bans for synthol use, etc.
The price we are paying for allowing drug use is that we have no respect any more. Even natural bodybuilders get tarnished with the drug label because it is so widespread in bodybuilding. Even some of the women bodybuilders use drugs and that has virtually killed that section of the sport.
So, what are we supposed to do? Wait until Ben Weider dies and then try to resurrect our pastime/sport? If we give life bans to all drug users there won't be many competitors left to be in contests! That is just unthinkable so the people in charge play down the drug use and abuse and carry on as usual. Lee Priest is right. Bring doctors to the Olympia and test all the men and women who compete in bodybuilding and the other contests. Nothing less is going to work. If some figure out a way to beat the testing then polygraphs and random testing have to be done, too. We have to clean up the sport, not the DEA.
-
How many times has this rule been enforced?
9.4 Threats/Assaults:
Any Member who threatens an Athlete, Judge or Official by word or gesture will
be immediately suspended for a period of time to be determined by the Pro
Committee. Any Member who physically assaults an Athlete, Judge or Official
will be immediately expelled.
Those rules apply to officials as well.Did i miss Steve's suspension or fine when he flipped of the crowd or yells at them.
-
Steve Weinberger stayed at my place for a couple of days in 1988 when Ray Mentzer was staying at my place. Matter of fact Roz and I gave up our kingsized bed for them. I ended up with a sore back sleeping on the bedsitter! Well, let me say this, how is a guy like Steve judging contests? Bev is a good judge and an honest person. There he was in Pumping Iron II wondering why Bev placed 8th in Las Vegas in 1983. Now he is one of them. You gotta love those New York boys. Since he stayed at my place I told him I would have somewhere to stay if I was in New York. His answer? "Don't bother!" Gotta love that accent. Hey, guys, you are all copying Arnold the way you say BAWDYbuilding. Sounds funny to hear Bob Chick say it like that.
Keep up the fight, Lee, you have a lot of support.
-
Those rules apply to officials as well.Did i miss Steve's suspension or fine when he flipped of the crowd or yells at them.
Well, if you want to get technical...those rules werent present when that took place. The amendment to the "conduct" portion were only added about 2 years ago.
Come on , Lee...if they followed those rules to the letter...YOU would have been suspended a long time ago for your comments.
Do you believe they should enforce these rules, lee?
-
Well, if you want to get technical...those rules werent present when that took place. The amendment to the "conduct" portion were only added about 2 years ago.
Come on , Lee...if they followed those rules to the letter...YOU would have been suspended a long time ago for your comments.
Do you believe they should enforce these rules, lee?
If they are rules then hell yes. That or take them out of the rules.
-
as i stated in the sarcasm/alexx posts im no priest fan..but he made excellent comments..and there are double standards in the rules
-
Basically the PDI is a company that charges it employees to work for them. The employees do all the work, do all the promoting and take all the sacrifices while the employer (PDI) reaps all the riches with absolutely 100% indemnity(?).It's really that simple. And even worse than an employer cause for all the employees do to promote the employer and them money they recieve nothing back.
No pay
No insurance
No retirement fund
No security
No support
No legal counsel
No freedom
No profit sharing
No Christmas Party
No paid vacations
No per diem
No residuals
No roid allowance
So basically the BB's who compete in the PDI are.....................
Here you go KEITH, Just though I would help you out a little...
-
ok bob...interesting post what is the pdi winnings..noone will answer me on here or mayhem
-
ok bob...interesting post what is the pdi winnings..noone will answer me on here or mayhem
IF the show takes place...I believe the purse is $30K, $15K to the winner and so on....
-
ok bob...interesting post what is the pdi winnings..noone will answer me on here or mayhem
prolly because you're a DS
::)
-
funny u say that because those are my initials..
-
funny u say that because those are my initials..
DEE Snider???????
-
DEE Snider???????
no that guy is way better looking than "newmom".
-
haha micheal....u big meanie..... ;D
-
no that guy is way better looking than "newmom".
u right..I never claimed to be a fit or pretty woman...wow u got me..sarcasm it seems u have alot of vent up frustration..don't be so bitter life is to short
-
u right..I never claimed to be a fit or pretty woman...wow u got me..sarcasm it seems u have alot of vent up frustration..don't be so bitter life is to short
then why are you even living? women are judged in this world by how hot their bodies are.
-
haha micheal....u big meanie..... ;D
J/K!!!!
-
then why are you even living? women are judged in this world by how hot their bodies are.
so piss ants like you can pick on me and laugh at me..arnt I entertaining
-
J/K!!!!
I know that...yeesh being away from yookee (whatever u sox fans call it) way has tarnished your sense of humor lol j/k...
-
so piss ants like you can pick on me and laugh at me..arnt I entertaining
do you want me to post that PM you sent me about you having vaginosis?
-
no that guy is way better looking than "newmom".
Nah newmon was good looking when i last saw her :) even if she dosen't like me.
-
Nah newmon was good looking when i last saw her :) even if she dosen't like me.
what does she look like Lee?
-
do you want me to post that PM you sent me about you having vaginosis?
u wish i pm'd u....and if u click on the link under my post my pic is there 4 mths after the baby
-
Nah newmon was good looking when i last saw her :) even if she dosen't like me.
awwwwwwwwwwwww that was nice and u right i dont like u ::)..but i will say this like i have on a few other posts..your interview the other day..u made excellent posts and it hurts to say i actually agree with u...
-
what does she look like Lee?
Via her sig:
She looks pretty good for 55
(http://x11.putfile.com/1/907132791.jpg)
-
dorian1 u failed to point out the little princess is doing the bbing thumbs up...even at 4 mths she following her dad
-
How many times has this rule been enforced?
9.4 Threats/Assaults:
Any Member who threatens an Athlete, Judge or Official by word or gesture will
be immediately suspended for a period of time to be determined by the Pro
Committee. Any Member who physically assaults an Athlete, Judge or Official
will be immediately expelled.
Ahhhhh what happens if a Official threatens a Athlete , AKA Weinberger ???
-
Officials are held to the same standard, and thus are subject to the same action.
The IFBB can do nothing, issue a warning, or repremand by way of fine, suspention, or both.
-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Officials are held to the same standard, and thus are subject to the same action.
WHATEVA !!!!!!!!!!
-
Officials are held to the same standard, and thus are subject to the same action. Unless of course they happen to be protecting the company - in which case all bets are off.
Fixed it for you sport.
-
Officials are held to the same standard, and thus are subject to the same action.
The IFBB can do nothing, issue a warning, or repremand by way of fine, suspention, or both.
So why does it say in the rule book will be immediately suspended? Pretty clear rule here. No "mays", "buts" or "ifs" but will be.
-
So why does it say in the rule book will be immediately suspended? Pretty clear rule here. No "mays", "buts" or "ifs" but will be
It,s all pretty simple really , every one at Pro level has broken the rules some way or another , either via steroid use or many many many other variables by way of the "Rule Book" so if they were to enforce the rules they would have no one left to enforce the rules on !!!!!
So the easiest way to dodge this bullet is not to load the gun !!!
But this unfortunately leaves them open to a class A libable suite if push came to shove and they decided to start upholding the rule book !!!
-
Lee had a point in the interview.
shawn has an extremely irritating girly voice.
lee was just pointing out the cold bare facts and was reasonable and bob and shawn, ganging up, sounded really jewbagel 'you cant do that! you cant do that!'
they were technically defending the system but instead they should have acknowledged the problems of the system.
LOL you just feel the tension whenever lee mentioned steroids ;D
-
No matter what guys Chic deep down know the IFBB is full of shit and the rule book is just a cover. That rule book was done to show how the IFBB cares about their members and want to run a tight ship. How else do you think Ben or Joey could ever meet any head of any real sports federation or organization. Do you think the IOC would even take a phone call from these idiots if they didn't at least pretend they were trying to do things right. All those rules were requirements in order to be listed as a sport federation. They mean nothing. They got their recognition and thats all they wanted. To bad because they don't follow what they printed is the main reason BB is a joke around the world. Really sad when BB could maybe have been a legitimate sport at one time is now not even mentioned in the newspaper when Ronnie wins the biggest show on earth (supposed to be anyway).
I do give Chic credit, he hangs in there no matter what is thrown at him.
-
Hey, Keith, you are a big guy and don't take crap from anyone. You and Lee are great that way. I am the same way or at least try to be. In the meantime those who abide by what the IFBB says are rewarded in various ways like a big club. Bawdybuilding seems so much like professional boxing and all the crap that exists there. To tell the truth it seems powerlifting has gone the same way and all manner of interest groups have virtually destroyed the sport.
I can imagine those vested interests getting together and trying to impose control on the rank and file. While I would never describe anyone with a PhD as an idiot, (even if it was an honourary award) you did make me laugh the way you described what goes on in that whatever you want to call it group. It stopped being an organization long ago. People who kiss butt are appointed and as long as they annoint Joe and Ben then remain there forever. If those people are bodybuilders and care about the sport then I guess things are tolerable. What happens is that many in control could care less about the bodybuilders and soon are looking after themselves and to heck with the knuckleheads who want to compete. Can we imagine what the executive of the IFBB thinks about bodybuilders? They must have a very low opinion of them because they treat them like cattle or dummies. Lee comes along and says he won't play their game anymore and big bad Bob warns him he is making a mistake. Heck, Lee wasn't even encouraged and congratulated for his foundation that he is trying to set up. What a joke bodybuilding has become. I have been ashamed of being a bodybuilder for decades and things are getting worse instead of getting better.
I have always maintained that you get what you deserve and you deserve what you get. If the professional bodybuilders are happy with what they get then I guess nothing will change.
-
Loook we all know thr rukes are a joke.Steve was never fined or suspended.No judge or official has been.And this stupid crap of picking and choosing when to enforce the rules is a joke.I see competing to make a livinig even in a different organization is far worse then STERIOD USE,PRONOGRAPHY,COMITTING CRIMES ETC.MMMMMMMMMMM wonder why this sport is a joke.Ok guys load up take all the shit you want try not to kill yourself and get out their and make us money, and if your lucky you might get in the top 5 and get a little back.But you dare go anywhere else to make some money and you are suspended.Oh boy this is going to be fun.See the IFBB in court will be better then watching Sadam go off at the Judge.
Lee
OK PLAY BALL.
-
I wonder about a rule re calves having cuts. I wonder what deduction gynocomastia entails in the judging?
Was Arnold suspended for competing in the 1970 NABBA Universe? Etc. Seems to me Lee is correct and the IFBB enforces exactly the rules that protect the organization but do not benefit the bodybuilders.
By the way, no one can remove Paul Graham as a vice-president representing Australia. There are no elections over here and when some tried to remove Paul years ago he just changed the name of the organization downunder. He also controls bodybuilding a la Ben. It is very much a closed organization.
I thought Paul Graham was dead?
-
Bob and Shawn said you can't go and play for another organization in football. I don't think that matters much for football because those guys make millions of dollars. If IFBB guys got millions of dollars too then they wouldn't have to go find other opportunities.
-
What is the situation in our beloved bodybuilding? There are no drug tests at the professional level. It is now common knowledge that every top competitor in the Olympia uses who knows what to compete. How in hell is bodybuilding going to be accepted if most use drugs and there is no testing? Answer: never!
The IFBB are now in a tight corner because the rival professional organization of DeMilia would attract open competitors is the IFBB seriously clamped down on drug use. You know, surprise testing 3 times a year for all competitors and life bans for usage. Life bans for synthol use, etc.
Vince, do you think bodybuilding could survive if NO drugs were allowed? After all the guys of your era, Arnold, Draper etc.. They all used drugs but in much smaller amounts and none of the HGH, insulin and dieretics. Wouldn't the physiques regress too far? Though I admit Reeves and Grimek, Sandow all were great physiques.
-
If the drugs disApeared the ifbb would be left with egg on their face. How would they explain their athletes coming in 30 pounds lighter and softer.
They would be better admitting it happens and trying to prevent the use of the more harmful drugs like the diuretics and insulin.
-
You can win the Mr. O with clear and visable gyno (while claiming to be natural as well) ::)
Franco in 1981 had bigger breast than most chicks do.
-
Ronnie's gyno in 98 was pretty bad. I've even seen him in photoshoots with gyno.
Can the IFBB just take steroid use out of the rulebook? if it's against the law let each guy deal with the law at their own risk and the ifbb can just say it's none of their business.
-
But you dare go anywhere else to make some money and you are suspended.
Lee
OK PLAY BALL.
Lee, as you know this has the I.F.B.B.'s way forever. I remember Kent Keuhn being suspended in the 70's for competing in another organization. He complained he was just trying to make enough money to put food on his table. Then a guy with balls like Kal Szkalak tried to organize the bodybuilders but nobody stood with him. imagine if he was succsesful? bodybuilding may have been a very different sport today.
-
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i just looked at your picture, what are you like 250lbs? you're mexican too right? i can't believe you've been talking so much shit looking the way you do.
no im italian and greek and did i say i was skinny and fit or pretty nope..have I ever called anyone on this board ugly not to my knowledge..am i overweight you damn skippy..is being a new mom at 4 mths new mom in that photo an excuse nope..but the thing is this..i can change the way my body works..so say what u wish thats fine did i hide my pictures nope..
-
Isn't what Lee is doing essentially what Cutler did, by hiring Johnnie Cochran when he got busted for diuretics? Didn't Cutler prove then and there that if the IFBB wanted to selectively punish someone, they'd have to be prepared to go all the way?
And who won that battle again?
-
I think if Lee sticks to his guns the IFBB havent got a leg to stand on.
I hope he does if push comes to shove i think they will back down.
He will still get shafted if he does the Olympia
-
Paul Graham is still with us last time I heard. He is doing well in Sydney and has a gym and business interests and a family to support. His son helps him in his gym.
Well, Lee, is like David vs the Goliath of the IFBB. Maybe a lone timely shot will succeed in bringing down this monstrosity of an organization? If change is not forthcoming then revolution is the only way it will occur. It just seems that the puppets are gesticulating and repeating themselves while the puppeteer is nowhere to be seen. The IFBB is in disarray and floundering. This is what happens to a declining institution that is no longer effective.
-
Paul Graham is still with us last time I heard. He is doing well in Sydney and has a gym and business interests and a family to support. His son helps him in his gym.
Well, Lee, is like David vs the Goliath of the IFBB. Maybe a lone timely shot will succeed in bringing down this monstrosity of an organization? If change is not forthcoming then revolution is the only way it will occur. It just seems that the puppets are gesticulating and repeating themselves while the puppeteer is nowhere to be seen. The IFBB is in disarray and floundering. This is what happens to a declining institution that is no longer effective.
The IFBB is in disaray and floundering?
Last I checked, we had more pro shows, bigger prize money, and better conditions for the athletes, than in any other era of pro bodybuilding...
-
Where are the fans Bob slowly disapearing.
Its the fans that make the sport.
The shows are good and their are loads of pros but can you honestly say your happy with the size of the crowds.
Things need to change the sport should not be based on how many people will spend money on worthless supplements to keep the sport going
-
Where are the fans Bob slowly disapearing.
Its the fans that make the sport.
The shows are good and their are loads of pros but can you honestly say your happy with the size of the crowds.
Things need to change the sport should not be based on how many people will spend money on worthless supplements to keep the sport going
Bodybuilding has had it's ups and dows fan-wise, for many years now...
In the 60's is was a cult type following, the 70's brought light to the sport with the emergence of Arnold/ Lou, etc. and a peaked interest by the fitness industry,
the 80's was a boom with the supplement industry starting to cater to the growing number of fans and interest from the magazine business,huge numbers of competitors, clothing industry caters directly to BBers, ESPN coverage of major events, etc, etc,
the 90's werent as good as the 80's, but did see the supplement industry grow to a billion dollar industry and the EXPO's were born...
The Olympia had more people attend this last year than at any other Olympia in history.
I agree that things need to change...and I beliueve with those changes, we can have 15,000 people attend the Olympia instead of 6-7,000.
And you can read all about what changes I believe will have that impact....
In THE NEXT ISSUE OF FLEX MAGAZINE coming out soon!!!
-
I dont buy flex anymore if i want tyranosauras pecs i do my own training programmes
You need to generate more media interest in the sport
everything lives or dies by the media
-
The IFBB is in disaray and floundering?
Last I checked, we had more pro shows, bigger prize money, and better conditions for the athletes, than in any other era of pro bodybuilding...
Chic, you are my buddy but I see what the problem is. You have Vince G Syndrome. That is something is soevident but you still fail to see it the way it really is. Like VInce sees a great body when he looks in the mirror or he thinks making $200 a month is sales is doing great. You see the IFBB as doing great and better than ever when just about 100% of others see it in it's reality. The IFBB has ruined BB. It is no better (even worse) than it was back in the 70's. Sure the prize money is higher, so is the price of bread. Better conditions, what are those? What happened earlier the competitors were being beaten. Chic the IFBB sucks. I swear I think the IFBB hired Chris Angel to hypnotize you so you see everything skewed.
-
Chic, you are my buddy but I see what the problem is. You have Vince G Syndrome. That is something is soevident but you still fail to see it the way it really is. Like VInce sees a great body when he looks in the mirror or he thinks making $200 a month is sales is doing great. You see the IFBB as doing great and better than ever when just about 100% of others see it in it's reality. The IFBB has ruined BB. It is no better (even worse) than it was back in the 70's. Sure the prize money is higher, so is the price of bread. Better conditions, what are those? What happened earlier the competitors were being beaten. Chic the IFBB sucks. I swear I think the IFBB hired Chris Angel to hypnotize you so you see everything skewed.
Come on Keith...
Talk to some of the old timers out there and ask them if they would have liked a $100,000 contract to train and compete and travel around signing autographs, and representinga company...
I agree that the attendance,media involvement, and money could be much better...but that's what I'm working on.
In the meantime, you can't discount the fact that the IFBB is the largest BB federation in the world, and has given a platform for many athletes to showcase their physiques, given exposure through their magazines, and provided a way to make a living from our sport to many athletes.
-
how many bodybuilders outside the top ten make a good living from the sport
im not being sarcastic just curious
whats being done to improve media interest
-
Come on Keith...
Talk to some of the old timers out there and ask them if they would have liked a $100,000 contract to train and compete and travel around signing autographs, and representinga company...
I agree that the attendance,media involvement, and money could be much better...but that's what I'm working on.
In the meantime, you can't discount the fact that the IFBB is the largest BB federation in the world, and has given a platform for many athletes to showcase their physiques, given exposure through their magazines, and provided a way to make a living from our sport to many athletes.
Yea but Chic those are just natural progressions over any industry. Actors weren't paid any residuals back in the 60's and early 70's or before. Could you imagine the money the cast from Gilligans Island would have. That show is being played somewhere in the world every minute of the day. Sherwood made a ton off it. But every industry has some sort of progression. The money thing is always going to increase just from the cost of living. Hell guy playing pro baseball back in the 70's were barely making $35,000 a year most of them. The money is better but thats it.
-
hey sarcasm ask mike ergas, chick or lee what i looked like 2 years ago in austin at lee priest classic..i was my size 9 that i will get back too..i was never skinny nor want to be
-
hey sarcasm ask mike ergas, chick or lee what i looked like 2 years ago in austin at lee priest classic..i was my size 9 that i will get back too..i was never skinny nor want to be
No you were a nice tight size 9 everything where it should be.
-
aww u flatter me...not bad for a wanker huh...listen don't try and get on my good side.I don't have one anymore.. :o
-
hey sarcasm ask mike ergas, chick or lee what i looked like 2 years ago in austin at lee priest classic..i was my size 9 that i will get back too..i was never skinny nor want to be
you're right, sorry about my earlier posts, my knee was killing me and i had to squat but my workout went fine.
-
well that good your feeling well and no need to apologize, I dont hide nothing but u know what I need a little motivation and reading what u said was a good start so I thank u...now piss off..j/k
-
I was just wondering. SInce the IFBB says competing with the PDI is a conflict of interest, I was thinking being a member of the IFBB and answering to Manion the President of the IFBB and represnting the members of the IFBB, is that not a conflict of interest.
-
Come on Keith...
Talk to some of the old timers out there and ask them if they would have liked a $100,000 contract to train and compete and travel around signing autographs, and representinga company...
I agree that the attendance,media involvement, and money could be much better...but that's what I'm working on.
In the meantime, you can't discount the fact that the IFBB is the largest BB federation in the world, and has given a platform for many athletes to showcase their physiques, given exposure through their magazines, and provided a way to make a living from our sport to many athletes.
The problem you face Chick is that the more you make the sport grow and become accepted the more scrutiny the sport will be under and the faster the IFBB house of cards will fall in a heap.
It doesn't take long for someone to dig dirt on the federation or the bodybuilders we all know that.
The rule book needs to be re-written or enforced to give you and the suits ANY credibility whatsoever.
Fine, don't let people compete elsewhere but also don't let drug dealers/wife beaters/fraudsters/porn stars compete either if that is the case...
-
I dont buy flex anymore if i want tyranosauras pecs i do my own training programmes
You need to generate more media interest in the sport
everything lives or dies by the media
media interest equals media scrutiny.... the sport needs to clean house before it can grow
-
There is problems in every sport
Someone once said that all publicity is good publicity
Nothing wrong with a bit of controversy
-
A 100,000 contract is nice, but if they're living in Cali, buying super supps, leasing condos and cars, and overpaying for websites, that $100k doesn't do much for long-term financial issues.
Perhaps an IFBB salary would be a cool idea- even if its just $10k a year stipend and $5k per year towards a 401k fund for the top 50-70 guys, and reduce the prize money significantly.
Thoughts on this?
-
reduce prize money? people would just get lazy. to 50? come on. prize funds are tiny enough. 10K for first place at a pro show? train like an animal, pay for a nutritionist/drug guru, cover all your own expenses and get 3rd place... aww 3K.
-
Would the guys still bust their ass to get in shape for a 5000 dollar first prize
A nominal salary wouldn't make any difference
Maybe if the fed had enough money for a decent salary based on appearences and competing in a certain amount of competitions.
Its hard to picture bodybuilding getting to a stage where there is enough money for more than the top ten to make a good living from it alone
-
A 100,000 contract is nice, but if they're living in Cali, buying super supps, leasing condos and cars, and overpaying for websites, that $100k doesn't do much for long-term financial issues.
Perhaps an IFBB salary would be a cool idea- even if its just $10k a year stipend and $5k per year towards a 401k fund for the top 50-70 guys, and reduce the prize money significantly.
Thoughts on this?
Why the hell should the IFBB pay a salary?
As far as I know the Olimpic comitee,NFL,NBA and so on dont pay thier athletes.Whomever benefit from using thier services should pay for it.
The IFBB pays by giving prize money and creating a competition for it,if some think they cant cut it and place in the money they shouldnt compete.
There is no reason for them to pay every retard who got a pro card,they benefit from the top and they pay the top.Pretty simple.
-
Why the hell should the IFBB pay a salary?
As far as I know the Olimpic comitee,NFL,NBA and so on dont pay thier athletes.Whomever benefit from using thier services should pay for it.
The IFBB pays by giving prize money and creating a competition for it,if some think they cant cut it and place in the money they shouldnt compete.
There is no reason for them to pay every retard who got a pro card,they benefit from the top and they pay the top.Pretty simple.
I agree with this... there are way too many guys with pro cards out there who should hang it up...
The guys coming up with DECENT genetics (shape, small joints, narrow hips etc etc) are the ones that need to be given a leg up to break into the pros...
case in point is richard jones... we shouldn't have lost him from the sport period.
every other sport fosters the young talent and brings them up and we should do the same somehow...
-
The IFBB is in disaray and floundering?
Last I checked, we had more pro shows, bigger prize money, and better conditions for the athletes, than in any other era of pro bodybuilding...
..yes, that's all well and good but we have FEWER FANS than ever before, Chick, and a general public that, for the few who care, KNOW that drugs are rampant. ...it just turns out that the few who are fans will pay the big bucks in ticket fees and the sponsors are bolstered by non-bodybuilding fans on the whole....hence your 'more money' bonuses. Yeah, cash is great for those involved, but when the fans numbers aren't growing, your sport is stagnant and the organization needs to change.
Do you really think the ONLY thing the IFBB and pro bodybuiling in general needs is more money flowing? How about trying to repair the horrible image that bodybuilding has in the general public? Just cause the battle is difficult doesn't mean it's not worth fighting.
I'd think you of ALL people would agree that bodybuilding needs to get back to it's roots in order to grow.
-
..yes, that's all well and good but we have FEWER FANS than ever before, Chick, and a general public that, for the few who care, KNOW that drugs are rampant. ...it just turns out that the few who are fans will pay the big bucks in ticket fees and the sponsors are bolstered by non-bodybuilding fans on the whole....hence your 'more money' bonuses. Yeah, cash is great for those involved, but when the fans numbers aren't growing, your sport is stagnant and the organization needs to change.
Do you really think the ONLY thing the IFBB and pro bodybuiling in general needs is more money flowing? How about trying to repair the horrible image that bodybuilding has in the general public? Just cause the battle is difficult doesn't mean it's not worth fighting.
I'd think you of ALL people would agree that bodybuilding needs to get back to it's roots in order to grow.
Lets just hope arnold gets more involved when he retires from public life...
-
Why the hell should the IFBB pay a salary?
As far as I know the Olimpic comitee,NFL,NBA and so on dont pay thier athletes.Whomever benefit from using thier services should pay for it.
The IFBB pays by giving prize money and creating a competition for it,if some think they cant cut it and place in the money they shouldnt compete.
There is no reason for them to pay every retard who got a pro card,they benefit from the top and they pay the top.Pretty simple.
No there are alot that shouldget money but if your not in the in crowd you will never get a dime.The way it is.
-
No there are alot that shouldget money but if your not in the in crowd you will never get a dime.The way it is.
I think the top bbers get into the "club" via their talent but there are many who have gotten there via their extraordinary suck-up abilities also...
-
No there are alot that shouldget money but if your not in the in crowd you will never get a dime.The way it is.
Hey Lee what's good bro, where the hell have ya been for the past couple of days? No sign of you @ the board and there's been a lot of talk about the radioshow you did. Do you mind updating us ;)
-
I think there are some interesting points in this thread and Bob is giving us the 'company' angle. If he would throw that book away and just talk to us re his own views then we might get somewhere. Do we have to hear those absurd arguments about how great bawdybuilding is and how much the IFBB is doing? From where I am I can tell you I have no interest in going to bodybuilding contests anymore. Not many are going. Remember back in 1965 Bob? Well, I will tell you what the scene was like. There were a few health spas around and a few gyms that bodybuilders could train in. Girls didn't lift weights in those days and not that many people went to a gym. The equipment was pathetic and there were not many machines designed to help you get bigger muscles. Joe started the Mr Olympia that year to have a contest all the champions could enter. Who were those champions? Anyone who won a top title. Well, up until Sept 1965 the top title you could win was the NABBA Mr Universe held in London. Steve Reeves, Reg Park, Bill Pearl, Arnold S, Frank Zane and just about all the top guys won that title or wish they had won it. Some won it many times especially the professional title. NABBA held a top Professional Mr Universe in 1970 that many of the top guys enterred and Arnold beat Sergio for the first time. It took many years for the Mr Olympia to be recognized as the top title. The public assumed that Mr Universe must be more important than Mr Olympia. Decades later the public probably still don't know the difference but bodybuilders do.
Go back and read how Larry Scott was treated when he won that show. That was an experience he will never forget and I wonder if it will ever be repeated. "Larry, Larry, Larry, Larry", they chanted and long after the contest was over! Larry received a silver plate and $1,000 prize money. I am sure those early winners would have been content with the title and trophy. That was all anyone wanted in those days. The crowds came to see Larry and Sergio and Arnold and those guys were heroes. Compare that to the present day when controversy after controversy happens and the drug issue just won't go away. What is being done about the drugs, Bob. Don't give me that crap about your being a professional. You guys should all be ashamed of yourselves because you are all drug cheats. Every last one of you. You are cheats because it is against the rules. The official IFBB rules. Or am I mistaken about that? What is being done about the drugs? It is against the rules. You come on here and try to dismiss me and genuine guys like Keith and Lee. Well, good try. If you had a good case maybe you would succeed. However, you have a weak argument and it really is pathetic to see you stick to your agenda and try to make guys like me the dickheads. I care about this sport as much as you do. I have been around since 1959 and I challenge you to find someone else who has my wide background in the sport. I have university degrees in philosophy so I am not some uneducated jerk just posting nonsense on discussion boards. I look at various people the IFBB have appointed to represent them and I shake my head in disbelief. What on earth are these people doing recruiting the people they do? You are not recruiting the best people nor are you a democratic organization. There are no elections for the most important positions in the IFBB. It is a closed organization. What are you doing about that? Well, it is obvious to me that you can't do much at all. That is what we are hearing here. Oh, you attend meetings and present proposals and sometimes they get accepted and everyone feels good about the progress in the IFBB.
The plain truth is the sport is dead. Especially women's bodybuilding. You guys haven't accepted it yet. The whole darn sport is contaminated. Everyone who has some muscle is tarred by the same brush that you officially are doing bugger all about. Steroids, other drugs, diuretics, synthol, silicon, and who knows what else is used to enhance a physique instead of building muscle. You guys have lost the plot. The fact that DeMilia is waiting in the wings with his alternative contests means you cannot do drug testing in a rigid and strict fashion because most of the big guys would go over there unless and until they test, too.
You know, guys get lifetime bans for cheating in track and field and cycling. What happens in bodybuilding? Well, we all know what happens in the open and professional contests. Nothing. The whole mindset is that you have to use heaps of chemicals or you cannot be competitive on stage. Everyone knows the IFBB rules against drugs won't be enforced. So what are you doing about this problem, Bob? Don't you think the single most important thing you can do for bodybuilders is to make sure they don't risk their health just to win contests. I guarantee bodybuilders would compete for less money and maybe none at all if they knew it was fair dinkum and that no one could cheat and get away with it. If you bust your gut in the gym and are drug free you soon realize you cannot stand on stage and compete against those who do use. It really is a sad game and I have seen so many young fellows give bodybuilding away because they do not want to use drugs. I salute them but how disappointing is that? Instead of having thousands attend our contests the crowds are about the same as they always were. I can tell you there are many, many more gyms in Sydney even in the last 10 years. These are big fitness clubs and there are literally tens of thousands of people training in gyms. We should have huge support and these contests should be on TV and all the rest. What do we find? No one wants to broadcast anything. The main sponsors push supplements.
When I won my title back in 1970, Ray Beck took me down to the Vancouver Sun in Vancouver and thought they would do a story about me. I was the first guy from Western Canada to win the national title and had just graduated from UBC. The newspaper wasn't interested. There was no story, no photo, no announcement. Ray took out a small ad that week to mention that I won that contest and worked at his Western Gym. Gosh, I was bitterly disappointed about that. There were no offers to appear on any magazine covers and if I didn't write two articles and send photos into Muscle Builder and Ironman I wouldn't have had any publicity at all. I look at the huge guys that win today. The same thing happens and they get no mention in the media. We are training and competing in a virtual vacuum.
-
Good post Vince. Would love to hear more about the old days. Oh, BTW, can you prove that you have university degrees in philosophy? Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;D
-
Why the hell should the IFBB pay a salary?
As far as I know the Olimpic comitee,NFL,NBA and so on dont pay thier athletes.Whomever benefit from using thier services should pay for it.
Yes, the US Olympic Committee pays their athletes a stipend while they're training. and of course the NFL and NBA pays their athletes.
-
I think there are some interesting points in this thread and Bob is giving us the 'company' angle. If he would throw that book away and just talk to us re his own views then we might get somewhere. Do we have to hear those absurd arguments about how great bawdybuilding is and how much the IFBB is doing? From where I am I can tell you I have no interest in going to bodybuilding contests anymore. Not many are going. Remember back in 1965 Bob? Well, I will tell you what the scene was like. There were a few health spas around and a few gyms that bodybuilders could train in. Girls didn't lift weights in those days and not that many people went to a gym. The equipment was pathetic and there were not many machines designed to help you get bigger muscles. Joe started the Mr Olympia that year to have a contest all the champions could enter. Who were those champions? Anyone who won a top title. Well, up until Sept 1965 the top title you could win was the NABBA Mr Universe held in London. Steve Reeves, Reg Park, Bill Pearl, Arnold S, Frank Zane and just about all the top guys won that title or wish they had won it. Some won it many times especially the professional title. NABBA held a top Professional Mr Universe in 1970 that many of the top guys enterred and Arnold beat Sergio for the first time. It took many years for the Mr Olympia to be recognized as the top title. The public assumed that Mr Universe must be more important than Mr Olympia. Decades later the public probably still don't know the difference but bodybuilders do.
Go back and read how Larry Scott was treated when he won that show. That was an experience he will never forget and I wonder if it will ever be repeated. "Larry, Larry, Larry, Larry", they chanted and long after the contest was over! Larry received a silver plate and $1,000 prize money. I am sure those early winners would have been content with the title and trophy. That was all anyone wanted in those days. The crowds came to see Larry and Sergio and Arnold and those guys were heroes. Compare that to the present day when controversy after controversy happens and the drug issue just won't go away. What is being done about the drugs, Bob. Don't give me that crap about your being a professional. You guys should all be ashamed of yourselves because you are all drug cheats. Every last one of you. You are cheats because it is against the rules. The official IFBB rules. Or am I mistaken about that? What is being done about the drugs? It is against the rules. You come on here and try to dismiss me and genuine guys like Keith and Lee. Well, good try. If you had a good case maybe you would succeed. However, you have a weak argument and it really is pathetic to see you stick to your agenda and try to make guys like me the dickheads. I care about this sport as much as you do. I have been around since 1959 and I challenge you to find someone else who has my wide background in the sport. I have university degrees in philosophy so I am not some uneducated jerk just posting nonsense on discussion boards. I look at various people the IFBB have appointed to represent them and I shake my head in disbelief. What on earth are these people doing recruiting the people they do? You are not recruiting the best people nor are you a democratic organization. There are no elections for the most important positions in the IFBB. It is a closed organization. What are you doing about that? Well, it is obvious to me that you can't do much at all. That is what we are hearing here. Oh, you attend meetings and present proposals and sometimes they get accepted and everyone feels good about the progress in the IFBB.
The plain truth is the sport is dead. Especially women's bodybuilding. You guys haven't accepted it yet. The whole darn sport is contaminated. Everyone who has some muscle is tarred by the same brush that you officially are doing bugger all about. Steroids, other drugs, diuretics, synthol, silicon, and who knows what else is used to enhance a physique instead of building muscle. You guys have lost the plot. The fact that DeMilia is waiting in the wings with his alternative contests means you cannot do drug testing in a rigid and strict fashion because most of the big guys would go over there unless and until they test, too.
You know, guys get lifetime bans for cheating in track and field and cycling. What happens in bodybuilding? Well, we all know what happens in the open and professional contests. Nothing. The whole mindset is that you have to use heaps of chemicals or you cannot be competitive on stage. Everyone knows the IFBB rules against drugs won't be enforced. So what are you doing about this problem, Bob? Don't you think the single most important thing you can do for bodybuilders is to make sure they don't risk their health just to win contests. I guarantee bodybuilders would compete for less money and maybe none at all if they knew it was fair dinkum and that no one could cheat and get away with it. If you bust your gut in the gym and are drug free you soon realize you cannot stand on stage and compete against those who do use. It really is a sad game and I have seen so many young fellows give bodybuilding away because they do not want to use drugs. I salute them but how disappointing is that? Instead of having thousands attend our contests the crowds are about the same as they always were. I can tell you there are many, many more gyms in Sydney even in the last 10 years. These are big fitness clubs and there are literally tens of thousands of people training in gyms. We should have huge support and these contests should be on TV and all the rest. What do we find? No one wants to broadcast anything. The main sponsors push supplements.
When I won my title back in 1970, Ray Beck took me down to the Vancouver Sun in Vancouver and thought they would do a story about me. I was the first guy from Western Canada to win the national title and had just graduated from UBC. The newspaper wasn't interested. There was no story, no photo, no announcement. Ray took out a small ad that week to mention that I won that contest and worked at his Western Gym. Gosh, I was bitterly disappointed about that. There were no offers to appear on any magazine covers and if I didn't write two articles and send photos into Muscle Builder and Ironman I wouldn't have had any publicity at all. I look at the huge guys that win today. The same thing happens and they get no mention in the media. We are training and competing in a virtual vacuum.
I bet you think you are a VERY interesting man if you think we are gonna sit down and read every 1000 word post you post. ::)
-
Yes, the US Olympic Committee pays their athletes a stipend while they're training. and of course the NFL and NBA pays their athletes.
Please enligthen me,as far as I know the countries pay the Olympic athleths and the teams pay the NFL and NBA players.
I never heard of a paycheck signed by the NBA to any player.
-
Last I checked, we had more pro shows, bigger prize money, and better conditions for the athletes, than in any other era of pro bodybuilding...
the top place winners at the Arnold and Olympia may be getting bigger prize money, but the winners of things like the Ironman aren't exactly rolling in the dough. the second tier athletes certainly aren't getting much.
-
Yes, the US Olympic Committee pays their athletes a stipend while they're training. and of course the NFL and NBA pays their athletes.
Correction Tim....the teams pay the salaries, the leagues usually sets the caps!
-
the top place winners at the Arnold and Olympia may be getting bigger prize money, but the winners of things like the Ironman aren't exactly rolling in the dough. the second tier athletes certainly aren't getting much.
Why should they? This is a small sport,the money isnt made from the contest but from the supps and magazines.
You people arent thinking of this as a buisness,lets assume that what Keith said is true and the IFBB makes about 1-2mil per year.
They got over 200 pros....not to mention other emploies and expenses.Giving just 10K per pro and they are out of money.Thats pre tax and any other expenses.
Whomever arrange a contest is in charge of the prize money,Arnold got a good one so lots of money same with GNC.
Others are smaller and dont got enough income.
I really fail to see your point.
-
Please enligthen me,as far as I know the countries pay the Olympic athleths and the teams pay the NFL and NBA players.
in the US, the government does not pay Olympic athletes, although in other countries they do. In the US, we tend to think of Olympic athletes as amatuers, doing it on their own, but the US Olympic Committee does pay for most of the training.
Correction Tim....the teams pay the salaries, the leagues usually sets the caps!
semantics. The teams are the NFL and NBA
-
in the US, the government does not pay Olympic athletes, although in other countries they do. In the US, we tend to think of Olympic athletes as amatuers, doing it on their own, but the US Olympic Committee does pay for most of the training.
semantics. The teams are the NFL and NBA
1.Training isnt salary,its the expenses.
2.Teams=whomever arrange a contest and not the IFBB.
-
I really fail to see your point.
the point is that things are not better for the majority of contestants, as Chick claims. The way the increase in prize money is being distributed is kind of like a tax cut for the rich.
-
I post what is on my mind and sometimes it is long. If some read it then that shows they are interested in bodybuilding. I have fun at the gym and I read the forums and can laugh at the witty posts. However, I never joke when I am talking about bodybuilding, training, gym equipment and so on.
I have a BA from UBC in 1965. Majors were Philosophy and Geography. I won a McGill National scholarship and went there in 1961-2. I topped my PE class at UBC in 1963 then did Phil and Geog in my final year. I graduated with a MEd from Sydney University in 1989. I did that degree partime over 13 years. I was teaching school and running a gym for several of those years then since 1981 I was making gym equipment full time. I specialized in the philosophy of science for my masters degree and am familiar with the work of Karl Popper and other philosophers of science. I have my diplomas at the family home but can photocopy them if needed.
-
the point is that things are not better for the majority of contestants, as Chick claims. The way the increase in prize money is being distributed is kind of like a tax cut for the rich.
But why should the worst BB get more money? Isnt capitalysemd based on competition?
A CEO can get millions but he got 30K employes that work for minimum wager,is that wrong?
Should everyone get the same salary? You do know that communisem didnt worked well....
As I said before,the IFBB job isnt to pay them.If they get an andorsment deal they will get money and to get that they need to deserve it.The IFBB pays the top since the top is what people come to see.
Do you really think that is you take you the top 5-8 at the O they will fill 5K seats? Hell no.
-
I post what is on my mind and sometimes it is long. If some read it then that shows they are interested in bodybuilding. I have fun at the gym and I read the forums and can laugh at the witty posts. However, I never joke when I am talking about bodybuilding, training, gym equipment and so on.
I have a BA from UBC in 1965. Majors were Philosophy and Geography. I won a McGill National scholarship and went there in 1961-2. I topped my PE class at UBC in 1963 then did Phil and Geog in my final year. I graduated with a MEd from Sydney University in 1989. I did that degree partime over 13 years. I was teaching school and running a gym for several of those years then since 1981 I was making gym equipment full time. I specialized in the philosophy of science for my masters degree and am familiar with the work of Karl Popper and other philosophers of science. I have my diplomas at the family home but can photocopy them if needed.
Damn I had one course at philosophy of science...bunch of people who like to walk in circles.
Get a real degree,come learn engineering with me ;D
-
But why should the worst BB get more money? Isnt capitalysemd based on competition?
A CEO can get millions but he got 30K employes that work for minimum wager,is that wrong?
Should everyone get the same salary? You do know that communisem didnt worked well....
As I said before,the IFBB job isnt to pay them.If they get an andorsment deal they will get money and to get that they need to deserve it.The IFBB pays the top since the top is what people come to see.
Do you really think that is you take you the top 5-8 at the O they will fill 5K seats? Hell no.
But- if the firm was losing money, and 90% of the employees were below the poverty level, things would have to be re-examined. If they were selling off company picnics and selling accounts left and right because they didn't have the resources to sustain, the stockholders would have the right and duty to remove mgmt and put in a new regime.
-
But- if the firm was losing money, and 90% of the employees were below the poverty level, things would have to be re-examined. If they were selling off company picnics and selling accounts left and right because they didn't have the resources to sustain, the stockholders would have the right and duty to remove mgmt and put in a new regime.
1.The stockholders are Joe and Ben Weider.
2.Its the employes problem they are poor,they can change jobs.
3.Are you sure the IFBB is losing money?
Talk facts dont start a hypotetical discussion about what the non existent stock holders should do.
-
I think a real degree would be in medicine or exercise science. That takes plenty of intelligence to comprehend. I do some engineering in my factory making gym equipment. I enjoy the challenge of making good equipment that works and is used by my members at my gym.
-
I think a real degree would be in medicine or exercise science. That takes plenty of intelligence to comprehend. I do some engineering in my factory making gym equipment. I enjoy the challenge of making good equipment that works and is used by my members at my gym.
Engineering includes tons of science in it.We basicly do the same courses as Physics or Math majors.
I study EE engineering so its quite high in the science requirement.
I personly think that medicine is overated,most of its is memorizing.But I got lots of respect for people who research medicine.Practicing it seems easier to me.
-
1.The stockholders are Joe and Ben Weider.
2.Its the employes problem they are poor,they can change jobs.
3.Are you sure the IFBB is losing money?
Talk facts dont start a hypotetical discussion about what the non existent stock holders should do.
AMI is the company which puts on Flex and the O. IFBB just collects a sanction fee. And yes, I am sure AMI is losing money.
And yes, the men can change jobs. PDi is coming to town :)
-
AMI is the company which puts on Flex and the O. IFBB just collects a sanction fee. And yes, I am sure AMI is losing money.
And yes, the men can change jobs. PDi is coming to town :)
So...whats your damn point?! The IFBB is hardly related yet all the complains are towards them. ::)
-
1.The stockholders are Joe and Ben Weider.
that's the problem. they want to claim they are a non profit sports federation, and if they are, then the athletes are the equivalent of their stock holders
2.Its the employes problem they are poor,they can change jobs.
that's another problem. the IFBB is for all pratical purposes a monopoly, and they are using their monopoly powers to intimidate athletes from entering the NOC.
3.Are you sure the IFBB is losing money?
shows are losing money, but the IFBB and NPC still get their membership dues and contest fees
-
that's the problem. they want to claim they are a non profit sports federation, and if they are, then the athletes are the equivalent of their stock holders
that's another problem. the IFBB is for all pratical purposes a monopoly, and they are using their monopoly powers to intimidate athletes from entering the NOC.
shows are losing money, but the IFBB and NPC still get their membership dues and contest fees
1.You can think the athletes are equivalent but you arent the one to decide it.There are specific laws for that.
2.Since its a federation you cant call it a monopoly,they have no real power.If someone with enough money will come to get something good they will lose thier status.Fact is all previous attempts were lame.
3.Since suposedly have no direct control over the contests they have no way to intemidate athletes out of anything.
4.Its the shows problem they lose money,no one make them keep doing them.
-
AMI is the company which puts on Flex and the O. IFBB just collects a sanction fee. And yes, I am sure AMI is losing money.
And yes, the men can change jobs. PDi is coming to town :)
Rob dammit you're still online bro? We all went to bed 1-2hrs ago and you're still here! :o
-
1.You can think the athletes are equivalent but you arent the one to decide it.There are specific laws for that.
What laws are you talking about. You mean "rules". And Joe and Ben wrote those rules to benefit themselves not the athlete. Thats a fact that is non-disputable by anyone. The athletes are not equal. Manion and Weider have dictated in the past who will win. That to is a fact. As much as I would love to name names (and one is obvious), there are 3 others still with the IFBB and NPC that I know and are in constant contact with. I don't know anything that these people who are right there in the thick of things know.
2.Since its a federation you cant call it a monopoly,they have no real power.If someone with enough money will come to get something good they will lose thier status.Fact is all previous attempts were lame.
Hello McFly! No power! Are they not telling their members what to do with their lives. Are they not controlling how their members make money. Even when not competing. Ummmmmm? Things that make you go ummmmmmmmm?
3.Since suposedly have no direct control over the contests they have no way to intemidate athletes out of anything.
Sorry but aren't they controlling who enters the contests. Just wondering. Do you not have to have a pro card from the IFBB to compete. So in essence they control the contests. DO they not require a entrance fee and sanction fee. Are they not the governing body of shows. Aren't the judges IFBB? Doesn't the IFBB govern the rules of how the show is to be judged? And isn't their a closed door meeting with the judges before major contests? you are right, the IFBB has no control over the contests.
4.Its the shows problem they lose money,no one make them keep doing them.
The only point which is 100% correct! And they are some of the dumbest people on the planet. Except a select few. Does anyone think the IFBB would step forward to promote shows if every promoter would quit. NO Way! That is a great employer! Has there been any proof over the years that steroids fuck up a person mind so much they see stuff thats not there and they believe the IFBB cares about them. Just wondering
Wow!
-
But why should the worst BB get more money? Isnt capitalysemd based on competition?
A CEO can get millions but he got 30K employes that work for minimum wager,is that wrong?
Should everyone get the same salary? You do know that communisem didnt worked well....
As I said before,the IFBB job isnt to pay them.If they get an andorsment deal they will get money and to get that they need to deserve it.The IFBB pays the top since the top is what people come to see.
Do you really think that is you take you the top 5-8 at the O they will fill 5K seats? Hell no.
Anna Kornikova comes to mind. As does Sean Ray. Sorry Anna. They were not the best and they did not win the majority of the time but they made as much money as the #1 guy.
-
1.The stockholders are Joe and Ben Weider.
2.Its the employes problem they are poor,they can change jobs.
3.Are you sure the IFBB is losing money?
Talk facts dont start a hypotetical discussion about what the non existent stock holders should do.
The IFBB itself is NOT losing money. HOW? What costs do they have that could possibly put them in the red. Salaries are the biggest expense. Basically all the IFBB does is collect money. They print a half ass magazine, no way spent more than $300 on their website (no bash on you Rob), they don't even pay for travel to the shows. The promoter pays everything. And like I said Manion spends as much as he can when he travels to. Example: $40,000 a week in Vegas for him and his family.
For the Olympia alone right now they are getting paid $400,000 from AMI and a major percentage of the GROSS receipts. YOu do the addition. Thats just the Olympia
-
Anna Kornikova comes to mind. As does Sean Ray. Sorry Anna. They were not the best and they did not win the majority of the time but they made as much money as the #1 guy.
Anna never made most of her money of contests,she was basicly a model that had a niche as an athelte.
-
Anna never made most of her money of contests,she was basicly a model that had a niche as an athelte.
Yes but she didn't make it big because she was a model playing tennis. She made it big from being a tennis player who modeled. She got paid a million dollars to play in tournaments she was certain to lose. Cause when she played the stands were packed.
-
Yes but she didn't make it big because she was a model playing tennis. She made it big from being a tennis player who modeled. She got paid a million dollars to play in tournaments she was certain to lose. Cause when she played the stands were packed.
When low tier Kamali type will get milions to buy tickets and shoes or whatever Im sure he will get better pay.
-
Let me spell out what has happened to bodybuilding and compare that to other sports.
Let suppose a family is watching TV and the Superbowl is on. I bet a lot of boys would dream of playing in the Superbowl one day. Young black lads might imagine themselves being a top basketball player. Others want to be the fastest man and so on. All of those dreams are 'possible' in the sense that kids don't really know how tall they are going to be and most know they can get bigger and stronger by lifting weights, etc. The dream exists as long as it might be possible to achieve. I think people watch and go to games because they like the spectacle and know that the athletes trained long and hard to be where they are today. Same goes for tennis and lots of other sports. As long as you have a lot of people wanting to be a champion in that sport the audiences will be there and sponsors naturally advertise the popular sports and its stars.
Has anyone considered semantics and bodybuilding? I mention this in the lead up about what I want to say. Well, in most of the world 'fat' is a negative word. Having a fat body is not something anyone dreams about getting and most fat people feel ashamed of their size and weight. There are people who admire those fat people so it is not all gloom for them. Anyway, if 'fat' is bad then you would think that 'muscle' is good. Our soft tissue is composed mostly of muscle or fat. If both are bad what the heck is good about the human body? Well, I guess the absence of too much fat and not too much muscle.
Okay, suppose a movie is on TV and Superman is the hero. Won't kids want to be big and strong like Superman? The same goes for Tarzan, Hercules and many other superheroes. It is natural for kids to dream about transcending themselves and being someone better. Surely having a muscular body is an advantage in our society? Well, up to a point. You can have abs and look athletic but you don't want to be too big? Why not get really big? Well, society over the millennia have declared that people with big muscles are all brawn and no brain, or wanting big muscles is not smart and is not what good people do or want. They don't want to be fat, either, because that implies one is excessive re indulgence and lacks control. Imagine if a report comes on TV and a family are watching the guys pose. What do you think the comments will be? I have witnessed this exact thing happening. The young lads all said out loud, "They use steroids!" Were the kids wrong? Were mum and dad wrong? Nope, they were spot on unless a natural bodybuilding contest was featured. We all know that seldom happens.
So the bottom line is no one wants anything to do with steroid users and goodness knows what else bodybuilders use to prepare for some contests. How on earth did such a great pastime degenerate into the biggest drug sport on the planet? Imagine if professional athletes in other sports could use any drugs at all to compete. Does anyone believe that would be tolerated by the public? No, and that is why those caught cause scandals.
The plain truth is no one wants to associate with an activity that requires dangerous drugs to win. That is a fact and that is what is buried under the carpet and that is why bodybuilding sucks. I am ashamed of bodybuilding and what it has become. Gone is the healthy look that we used to boast about. We knew we were healthier and not only stronger than the unconditioned and smaller people. The benefits of resistance training outweighed the criticism and knocks and we plodded on and enterred contests for the title and trophy alone. It wasn't necessary to win money or prizes. The championship physique was enough reward. What a shame champions are not celebrated universally and rewarded for their excellence. Instead most are bagged as desperate idiots who don't care for their health or longevity.
Bob comes on here arguing about what is best for professional bodybuilders. Yeah, sure. He hasn't convinced me and he will never convince the public while this sport is drug-infested. He and the other officials are a laughing stock and have no credibility from other sports or organizations. What could have been has been squandered because they were too concerned about dominating and controlling bodybuilding instead of promoting the sport to the public.
-
Let me spell out what has happened to bodybuilding and compare that to other sports.
Let suppose a family is watching TV and the Superbowl is on. I bet a lot of boys would dream of playing in the Superbowl one day. Young black lads might imagine themselves being a top basketball player. Others want to be the fastest man and so on. All of those dreams are 'possible' in the sense that kids don't really know how tall they are going to be and most know they can get bigger and stronger by lifting weights, etc. The dream exists as long as it might be possible to achieve. I think people watch and go to games because they like the spectacle and know that the athletes trained long and hard to be where they are today. Same goes for tennis and lots of other sports. As long as you have a lot of people wanting to be a champion in that sport the audiences will be there and sponsors naturally advertise the popular sports and its stars.
Has anyone considered semantics and bodybuilding? I mention this in the lead up about what I want to say. Well, in most of the world 'fat' is a negative word. Having a fat body is not something anyone dreams about getting and most fat people feel ashamed of their size and weight. There are people who admire those fat people so it is not all gloom for them. Anyway, if 'fat' is bad then you would think that 'muscle' is good. Our soft tissue is composed mostly of muscle or fat. If both are bad what the heck is good about the human body? Well, I guess the absence of too much fat and not too much muscle.
Okay, suppose a movie is on TV and Superman is the hero. Won't kids want to be big and strong like Superman? The same goes for Tarzan, Hercules and many other superheroes. It is natural for kids to dream about transcending themselves and being someone better. Surely having a muscular body is an advantage in our society? Well, up to a point. You can have abs and look athletic but you don't want to be too big? Why not get really big? Well, society over the millennia have declared that people with big muscles are all brawn and no brain, or wanting big muscles is not smart and is not what good people do or want. They don't want to be fat, either, because that implies one is excessive re indulgence and lacks control. Imagine if a report comes on TV and a family are watching the guys pose. What do you think the comments will be? I have witnessed this exact thing happening. The young lads all said out loud, "They use steroids!" Were the kids wrong? Were mum and dad wrong? Nope, they were spot on unless a natural bodybuilding contest was featured. We all know that seldom happens.
So the bottom line is no one wants anything to do with steroid users and goodness knows what else bodybuilders use to prepare for some contests. How on earth did such a great pastime degenerate into the biggest drug sport on the planet? Imagine if professional athletes in other sports could use any drugs at all to compete. Does anyone believe that would be tolerated by the public? No, and that is why those caught cause scandals.
The plain truth is no one wants to associate with an activity that requires dangerous drugs to win. That is a fact and that is what is buried under the carpet and that is why bodybuilding sucks. I am ashamed of bodybuilding and what it has become. Gone is the healthy look that we used to boast about. We knew we were healthier and not only stronger than the unconditioned and smaller people. The benefits of resistance training outweighed the criticism and knocks and we plodded on and enterred contests for the title and trophy alone. It wasn't necessary to win money or prizes. The championship physique was enough reward. What a shame champions are not celebrated universally and rewarded for their excellence. Instead most are bagged as desperate idiots who don't care for their health or longevity.
Bob comes on here arguing about what is best for professional bodybuilders. Yeah, sure. He hasn't convinced me and he will never convince the public while this sport is drug-infested. He and the other officials are a laughing stock and have no credibility from other sports or organizations. What could have been has been squandered because they were too concerned about dominating and controlling bodybuilding instead of promoting the sport to the public.
You shuold seriously make cliff notes to your posts.lol
-
that's the problem. they want to claim they are a non profit sports federation, and if they are, then the athletes are the equivalent of their stock holders
that's another problem. the IFBB is for all pratical purposes a monopoly, and they are using their monopoly powers to intimidate athletes from entering the NOC.
shows are losing money, but the IFBB and NPC still get their membership dues and contest fees
And if the ones who have never made a dime of the IFBB changed jobs you would have about 10 ifbb pros left.
-
And if the ones who have never made a dime of the IFBB changed jobs you would have about 10 ifbb pros left.
So? Whats the point? That the IFBB should be a charity organization now? It should donate lame BB money so they can drug themself with no future in the sport?
Lee before I saw your posts I THOUGHT you are a cry baby,after seeing them I KNOW you are THE cry baby.
-
So? Whats the point? That the IFBB should be a charity organization now? It should donate lame BB money so they can drug themself with no future in the sport?
Lee before I saw your posts I THOUGHT you are a cry baby,after seeing them I KNOW you are THE cry baby.
you're just angry that Lee tells the truth.
-
you're just angry that Lee tells the truth.
Why the hell would I be angry? I have nothing to win or gain from either sides.
Fact is Lee AAAAALWAYS complain.
As Ronnie said "WHY!! complain :D "
-
As Ronnie said "WHY!! complain :D "
That's like Donald Trump telling a homeless person, Hey, cheer up?
-
Why the hell would I be angry? I have nothing to win or gain from either sides.
Fact is Lee AAAAALWAYS complain.
As Ronnie said "WHY!! complain :D "
I think complaining is different from stating facts and speaking his mind. Lee has as much if not more insight on the IFBB than anyone one here. How can you argue with someone knows volumes more than you doabout the IFBB,Manion, Weiners and the BB industry.
-
The plain truth is the sport is dead. Especially women's bodybuilding. You guys haven't accepted it yet. The whole darn sport is contaminated. Everyone who has some muscle is tarred by the same brush that you officially are doing bugger all about. Steroids, other drugs, diuretics, synthol, silicon, and who knows what else is used to enhance a physique instead of building muscle. You guys have lost the plot. The fact that DeMilia is waiting in the wings with his alternative contests means you cannot do drug testing in a rigid and strict fashion because most of the big guys would go over there unless and until they test, too.
Vince,
While your point about rampant drug use is valid, I think the powers-that-be in the IFBB realize something you are not considering. If they tested stringently for drugs, then amateurs would be bigger and more cut than the pros. And if that were the case, why would casual bodybuilders go to shows or buy magazines of guys who are smaller than themselves? Why would a non-bodybuilder want to buy legit supplements or read about training secrets from guys who are smaller than his own cousin Tony, with the acne? Professional bodybuilding and the entire industry would fold like a lawnchair overnight. It would suddenly be that much more obvious to the average guy who hadn't already figured it out that the drugs were more responsible for the pro's size than their supposed work ethic and nutritional regimen. Look at Hulk Hogan for an example.
Sure, pros have good genetics, but it's their genetic response to juice that sets them apart. If anabolic compounds did not exist, I'd wager that only a third of the top current pros would still be on a competitive stage. It's so easy for them to say it's not all about the juice while they are still on the juice.
At least in established sports like track, football and soccer, the best in the world clearly had a gift before their first cycle. You often see and hear the story of the once-skinny bodybuilder who became a giant, but you don't hear too many stories of the slow kid who went on to become a speed demon. Since bodybuilding is only about muscle, and not about god given fast-twitch fibers or a natural ability to make good split-second decisions, the most naturally gifted and hard working are not the ones getting pro cards. Can you imagine the heat track and field would take if the best runners in the world actually became slower, once they turned pro and started getting tested for drugs? Would anyone watch the Tour de France if the competitors used to be faster and better as non-tested amateurs? That is what would happen if the IFBB tested for drugs.
So while it may sound like I'm disagreeing with you, I'm not. In fact, I'm going one step further and say this; since anabolics cannot be uninvented, and since steroid users in the general population have little or no fear of seeing a jail cell, bodybuilding will not only continue to die, but this demise was an inexorable part of a larger sequence of events that began long ago. The non-prosecution or persecution of casual users by the Fed means that the IFBB's hands are tied. The IFBB can't let the gap between what their athletes and the general population look like falter or reverse itself and still expect to be in business. And even if the Fed started going after casual users, they'd soon have to go after the more obvious users, such as pro athletes and bodybuilders or risk a public outcry of "Payoff!"
As bad as drugs are for bodybuilders, and as bad as they are for bodybuilding, the genie is out of the bottle. Remove them at this point and no one will bother watching bodybuilders at all. They'll just go see their cousin Tony, who has bad acne, but can bench a truck and has arms two inches bigger than the pros.
-
They'll just go see their cousin Tony, who has bad acne, but can bench a truck and has arms two inches bigger than the pros.
Tony is cool.
-
I think complaining is different from stating facts and speaking his mind. Lee has as much if not more insight on the IFBB than anyone one here. How can you argue with someone knows volumes more than you doabout the IFBB,Manion, Weiners and the BB industry.
I can because his arguments are basless.He simply ask for donations.
You talk about him as if he is a figure to be adored,nothing more then a 2 tier juice head.
-
I can because his arguments are basless.He simply ask for donations.
You talk about him as if he is a figure to be adored,nothing more then a 2 tier juice head.
monster jealousy.
-
I can because his arguments are basless.He simply ask for donations.
You talk about him as if he is a figure to be adored,nothing more then a 2 tier juice head.
I do adore Jack. He is bald as am I. But unless he sends me some pics with Muscle Mafia on it I may not adorn him anymore
-
I do adore Jack. He is bald as am I. But unless he sends me some pics with Muscle Mafia on it I may not adorn him anymore
I was talking about Lee.
-
I was talking about Lee.
opps my bad
-
Just a quick question...
Why is Vince Basile, a highly respected, intelligent and insightful person who has made many contributions to this (and other) bodybuilding boards, defending his logical and reasoned argument against the likes of IFBBwannaB?
Vince is posting proof that he is college edumacated, IFBBwannaB "claims" to be studying engineering. I'm not sure how you do it in the States... but here in Europe, college students can string a sentence together, without spelling mistakes and malapropisms.
Just a thought...
The Luke
-
Vince,
While your point about rampant drug use is valid, I think the powers-that-be in the IFBB realize something you are not considering. If they tested stringently for drugs, then amateurs would be bigger and more cut than the pros. And if that were the case, why would casual bodybuilders go to shows or buy magazines of guys who are smaller than themselves? Why would a non-bodybuilder want to buy legit supplements or read about training secrets from guys who are smaller than his own cousin Tony, with the acne? Professional bodybuilding and the entire industry would fold like a lawnchair overnight. It would suddenly be that much more obvious to the average guy who hadn't already figured it out that the drugs were more responsible for the pro's size than their supposed work ethic and nutritional regimen. Look at Hulk Hogan for an example.
Sure, pros have good genetics, but it's their genetic response to juice that sets them apart. If anabolic compounds did not exist, I'd wager that only a third of the top current pros would still be on a competitive stage. It's so easy for them to say it's not all about the juice while they are still on the juice.
At least in established sports like track, football and soccer, the best in the world clearly had a gift before their first cycle. You often see and hear the story of the once-skinny bodybuilder who became a giant, but you don't hear too many stories of the slow kid who went on to become a speed demon. Since bodybuilding is only about muscle, and not about god given fast-twitch fibers or a natural ability to make good split-second decisions, the most naturally gifted and hard working are not the ones getting pro cards. Can you imagine the heat track and field would take if the best runners in the world actually became slower, once they turned pro and started getting tested for drugs? Would anyone watch the Tour de France if the competitors used to be faster and better as non-tested amateurs? That is what would happen if the IFBB tested for drugs.
So while it may sound like I'm disagreeing with you, I'm not. In fact, I'm going one step further and say this; since anabolics cannot be uninvented, and since steroid users in the general population have little or no fear of seeing a jail cell, bodybuilding will not only continue to die, but this demise was an inexorable part of a larger sequence of events that began long ago. The non-prosecution or persecution of casual users by the Fed means that the IFBB's hands are tied. The IFBB can't let the gap between what their athletes and the general population look like falter or reverse itself and still expect to be in business. And even if the Fed started going after casual users, they'd soon have to go after the more obvious users, such as pro athletes and bodybuilders or risk a public outcry of "Payoff!"
As bad as drugs are for bodybuilders, and as bad as they are for bodybuilding, the genie is out of the bottle. Remove them at this point and no one will bother watching bodybuilders at all. They'll just go see their cousin Tony, who has bad acne, but can bench a truck and has arms two inches bigger than the pros.
i agree with this... drugs are here to stay no matter what you do... i'm personally not against their use... what I am against is their abuse and here is where the IFBB CAN take a stand... the abusers are easy to spot lets face it their guts are hanging all over the freakin place... the judging is the key to it.
so far this year the shows have been won by guys that looked great -dexter and phil - but come olympia time the jelly bellies will rule again unfortunately
-
Just a quick question...
Why is Vince Basile, a highly respected, intelligent and insightful person who has made many contributions to this (and other) bodybuilding boards, defending his logical and reasoned argument against the likes of IFBBwannaB?
Vince is posting proof that he is college edumacated, IFBBwannaB "claims" to be studying engineering. I'm not sure how you do it in the States... but here in Europe, college students can string a sentence together, without spelling mistakes and malapropisms.
Just a thought...
The Luke
You can try and ask me question regarding EEE.I have spelling and grammer mistakes because my native language and English are quiet diffrent in the way you build a sentence.Its exacly the oposite ,combine that with quick typing and I pharprase English with Hebrew grammer which is wrong.
Anymore questions son?
-
Good posts, Vince. I'm not sure how you could be disappointed with the Sun not doing your story back in the day...there's no money for the papers in that, plus the only person to gain was the dude who owned the gym you worked out at. Today, it's the same thing....the ONLY money to be made is in supplements. I'm sure that the gay factor was MUCH worse years ago than in today's more tolerant society.
Bodybuilding has a lot be blamed for, but as a movement it's not lucrative but for a handful. And that handful intend to squeeze every last drop out, for better or worse.
Vince, don't kid yourself...bodybuilding never had a 'glorious' past, nor will the future hold much better in my opinion. The sport, as you put it, is dead!
The only thing you can do is simply train yourself, and if you choose to compete, do so in a tested show. Simple!
But you won't have sponsorship from REAL sponsors (Nike, Reebok) unless you get MAJOR viewerships...and that simply won't happen. In some cases, sports just take the high road...every notice you don't see Nike at UFC? It's too controversial for the big players, just like bodybuilding.
The only good things about the old days is that not everybody was cranked to the gills...so to compete meant a little more.
I just like to train as the older guys did, to their standard. And reap the rewards!...I'll stick to my dayjob for dollars.
In a perfect world, bodybuilding would be as you describe....but it's not. Keep fighting, but for what reason I haven't a clue.
-
Bodybuilding to the general public has always been an activity that was frowned upon. For some reason it became an abject activity and we really haven't obtained any acceptance at all. Like I said, 'fat' is a really bad word but 'muscle' isn't really a positive unless it is associated with athletes and sport. Bodybuilding can't be a sport in the true sense of the word because the judging is not about ability and so on. Perhaps 2500 years ago it was advantageous to have big muscles in hand to hand combat. When guns arrived all you had to do was pull a trigger. Being strong wasn't so important anymore.
A curious thing about women is that in most western cultures musclemen are a turnoff. That really is surprizing because fat guys, bald guys, short guys, old guys, ugly guys, gay guys, etc., are not in demand, either. Why isn't a large, muscular body attractive to women? If it isn't then why would anyone bother developing a body that does nothing for most women. That is not smart. I always believed that the skinning intellectuals argued that muscles were not important and the mind was. To me that was a rationalization to compensate for what those skinny guys lacked. What about the combination of brain and brawn? Is that guy attractive to women? I suppose the best that can be said is that he will do okay but will have a lot of stares and will be considered not as smart as others because of those muscles.
Decades ago it was believed that big muscles made you musclebound and slow. Ben Johnson proved that was false but many still cling to the notion that big guys are slow and do not have much flexibility. Mickey Hargitay in the fifties was quoted as saying he couldn't function unless he has a massage first thing in the morning. Many gullible people believed that because they wanted to believe that there was no advantage to have big muscles. To this day there is a culture that continues to be against big muscles. The reasons have changed slightly but the bias continues. If anyone big gets rich or famous he is the exception and the rest of the muscle guys are stupid, gay, or drug users. It is as if the public are looking for reasons to keep rejecting muscles.
If we forget about competition for a moment and just concentrate on strength and muscle size then surely in our sometimes threatening societies it is an advantage to be bigger than average and stronger than average. People tend to leave big guys alone and that size is a deterent to anyone messing with them or their families and friends. When it comes to reality people do respect big guys in person. They generally reject the posing and displays under lights and in magazines. However, in certain things it is acceptable. Comic book heroes are often huge. Superman was supposed to be bigger than the versions who have played him in the movies. They should make him smarter, too, and not go for a silly female like Lois! Heck, he could even be a bit naughty and look through clothes with that x-ray vision.
Arnold comes along and somehow succeeds with a package that surely couldn't do what he did. A German speaking Austrian musclehead is govenor of California? That guy makes $20,000,000 or more for playing a machine in Hollywood movies?! I suppose we all underestimated Arnold's motivation, persistence and philosophy. If he can succeed then why can't the other musclemen? Steve Reeves was the biggest movie star way back in 1960-61. Reg Park and a few others had some success as did big Lou. We have yet to see anyone with big muscles get an oscar for acting ability.
Even though a few bodybuilders had personal success it never rubbed off on the rest of the community. In a way we can say the sport has gone backwards in recent years because of the controvery over drugs. I don't agree that if we test for drugs that the sport will not have any big guys. There will be lots of guys getting huge but it might take a bit longer. If and when that happens there is no reason why some of those champions cannot make money in advertising and so on. I don't mean for supplement companies, either.
If we insist that big muscles are the ultimate ideal of the perfect man then add a PhD and we should have a superman. There have been several guys who came close to that combination. Zane, Scott, and a few guys who were doctors had brawn and brain. Somehow we need a philosophy of bodybuilding that will help everyone transcend the status we now have. While those drugs are being used and no testing done I am afraid there is no way we can change what the public thinks of us. If the Weiders and DeMilia cannot agree to do testing then the status quo will continue because neither side can risk losing all the competitors who would defect to whichever organization does not do testing.
You would think that if these drugs are illegal then why hasn't the government stepped in to test bodybuilders? Something just doesn't seem fair dinkum here and the lads carry on doing the same thing year after year. The bottom line is that the vast majority of people who want to build themselves up do not want to use dangerous drugs. You would think money could be poured into exercise science to come up with shortcuts to hypertrophy. Maybe scientists can find ways to get bigger without resorting to anabolics and so on? I wish Arnold would use his influence to initiate something along those lines. Guys get arrested for minor things and he says nothing at all about how silly all that DEA attention is. I guess his being a good politician he is not touching bodybuilders with a 10 foot pole.
-
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
-
Here's the translation:
Nobody liked BB from the start, women don't like it either. why hasn't a BB won an oscar?...Drugs are the blame for everything...
-
BB was never really loved by the public, it was often chided as being a vein narcissistic pursuit. During the late 70's early 80's it hit mainstream and the public loved it and flocked to the gym. Unless being muscular becomes the style again it will not be mainstream again. The drugs didn't kill it, muscles just went out of style.
But what we could get back to is the great subculture and brotherhood that it once was. Its fraternal underground quality was part of its appeal. Making friends and socializing while pursuing ideal physiques was healthy and great fun. We never really needed mainstream acceptance. What we need are good leaders and a federation that isn't riddled with corruption and greed.
The Weider empire needs to fall (boycott and protests) and we need a new one that puts health and the athletes first. The leaders have to be more than muscle heads, we need to see they are intelligent, moral people with a well balanced life and a overall good people. They deserve privacy for their steroid use and in turn use their fame and strength for good, not for the pursuit of sex, drugs and more sex and more drugs.
A grassroots effort would be great to get the ball rolling , but the strongest momentum will come from a great charasmatic leader or group of leaders that have the balls to speak up and clean house.
-
When guns arrived all you had to do was pull a trigger. Being strong wasn't so important anymore.
I'd say it was the industrial revolution that killed muscle, not guns.
A curious thing about women is that in most western cultures musclemen are a turnoff. If it isn't then why would anyone bother developing a body that does nothing for most women. That is not smart.
You seem to be walking right into your opponents argument here. If it isn't smart to create muscles larger than women find pleasing, why do bodybuilders do it? To impress the guys?
I always believed that the skinny intellectuals argued that muscles were not important and the mind was. To me that was a rationalization to compensate for what those skinny guys lacked.
I'm sure skinny intellectuals would make the counter argument that dumb guys build muscles to compensate for what they lacked. And which individual has made a difference on this planet? Ronnie Coleman, the paragon of muscle, or Albert Einstein, the apex of intellectuals?
Decades ago it was believed that big muscles made you musclebound and slow. Ben Johnson proved that was false but many still cling to the notion that big guys are slow and do not have much flexibility.
Ben trained for power, not for muscles. The muscle was a byproduct. Bodybuilders don't do plyometrics. So comapring a sprinter, who is very muscular and athletic, with a bodybuilder, who is very muscular only, is disingenuous. You can argu that some bodybuilders are also athletic, but that is irrelevant. Also, most sports require more than one ten seond burst of power, and those athletes can't perform aerobically with pounds and pounds of extraneous muscle.
If we forget about competition for a moment and just concentrate on strength and muscle size then surely in our sometimes threatening societies it is an advantage to be bigger than average and stronger than average.
The guys in prison are bigger than the guys on the outside. Did they figure they should solve problems with their fists, just because they knew they could?
People tend to leave big guys alone and that size is a deterent to anyone messing with them or their families and friends.
My feeling is the opposite. Most people tend to leave big guys alone. But jails full of guys who were big before they even got incarcerated. Big tough guys seem to get in fights more, not less. My feeling is that big guys get in fights more because they are either looking to assert themselves on someone, or someone is trying to assert themselves by taking them on. I'm not saying your best option is to be skinny and invisible, but being bigger to avoid fights does not work, in general.
You would think money could be poured into exercise science to come up with shortcuts to hypertrophy.
Myostatin inhibitors are on their way. The real stuff....not that crap we already see on sale today. Human testing is already underway. In a few years, weightrooms may become obsolete, though like all hypertrophy compounds, I'm sure their abuse will have real side effects, like enlarged hearts.
I'm not a bodybuilding hater, just some guy who found he got more girls and more confidence by putting on a reasonable amount of muscle. Enough to look like the hated swimmers I read about on Getbig.
It's the elephant oin the room Vince. If women are repulsed by the size of pro bodybuilders, and only a handful make a few time living doing it, why do men want to get that big? (Why women want to get that big is a lot simpler, I think).
-
Here's the translation:
Nobody liked BB from the start, women don't like it either. why hasn't a BB won an oscar?...Drugs are the blame for everything...
More like "Male bodybuilders are to most women what women with massive unnaturally large fake boobs are to men...loved by a minority and shunned by the majority."
-
NPC shows in the New England area are dying. The last NPC Mr. RI had about 30 people in the audience. Their were more competitors. They even cancelled the night show and just ran the pre judging and the poses and posedown with a 30 minute break. Now no more NPC RI's. The year before was almost sold out? I don't get it. Now, I believe it's all been put into Jays's Mass show. Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont aren't doing much better, when only 1 or 2 years earlier they were packed. Why the sudden loss of intrest in the North East? Their's not much else to do. Even with Palumbo guest posing and Mike Katz MCing it was still a loss. How is the IFBB going to get bigger when the minor league shows are dying?
-
I heard even the USA's in Vegas wasn't even close to a sellout. They had 300+ competitors which is awesome, but that just meant most of the people in the audience got comped tickets.
-
My local show had Darrem Charles in 04, then Vic martinez guest pose last year. This year it's Dave palumbo.
Now there is nothing wrong with Palumbo, sounds like a helluva likeable guy.
Just wish we had a top pro up there. I know more people were going to the show for Vic M than for anything local.
-
I heard even the USA's in Vegas wasn't even close to a sellout. They had 300+ competitors which is awesome, but that just meant most of the people in the audience got comped tickets.
I heard the sky is falling.
Keith had you been there you could have SEEN the place was packed. How does 300+ competitors equate to the audience getting comped tickets?
-
More like "Male bodybuilders are to most women what women with massive unnaturally large fake boobs are to men...loved by a minority and shunned by the majority."
I agree with this statement.
-
I heard the sky is falling.
Keith had you been there you could have SEEN the place was packed. How does 300+ competitors equate to the audience getting comped tickets?
Well I just made a few calls and I guess we are both right. It was packed for awhile. But the 3 people I just got off the phone with all said that after the women were done at least 1/3 or more of the audience had left. So I guess you were right and I was right
-
Well I just made a few calls and I guess we are both right. It was packed for awhile. But the 3 people I just got off the phone with all said that after the women were done at least 1/3 or more of the audience had left. So I guess you were right and I was right
The only correct part of your post was "They had 300+ competitors which is awesome"
The rest was your usual "I heard" crap.
How's that friend of yours with the Presidents hair?
-
Well I just made a few calls and I guess we are both right. It was packed for awhile. But the 3 people I just got off the phone with all said that after the women were done at least 1/3 or more of the audience had left. So I guess you were right and I was right
You are a hoot. Packed for awhile is still packed. What difference does it make if they were there for the men or the women?
Still waiting on how you gathered the tickets were comped. I guess all those family members of the figure competitors got in for free huh?
Do us all a favor and stop talking on what you "heard" as it continues to be a load of shit.
:-*
-
You are a hoot. Packed for awhile is still packed. What difference does it make if they were there for the men or the women?
Still waiting on how you gathered the tickets were comped. I guess all those family members of the figure competitors got in for free huh?
Do us all a favor and stop talking on what you "heard" as it continues to be a load of shit.
:-*
Wow Issac honey why so mad. Aren't you and Kevin staying with each other. I love when two nobodies talk to me. It makes my day. Any good naked pics of guys you got at the contest afterwards. And what does it matter if they are there for the women or men. Nothing I guess if you are a women competitor. If I was a male competitor and seeinghow many people were watching the women then left when it was the men's time, I would be a little upset that they didn't hang around. Of course the both of you had a full room at the hotel I'm sure. Both of you quit the IFBB/NPC ball-licking, it makes you look bad worse. You get so mad at what I say, instead of reading what I write just look at each other and figure out how you will improve yourselves. And somewhere I heard both of you were okay photographers. You are right, I need to quit listening to others cause it's shit. By honeys hopefully will see you at the Olympia. Maybe we can get a group hug picture together. No handsies though
-
Wow Issac honey why so mad. Aren't you and Kevin staying with each other. I love when two nobodies talk to me. It makes my day. Any good naked pics of guys you got at the contest afterwards. And what does it matter if they are there for the women or men. Nothing I guess if you are a women competitor. If I was a male competitor and seeinghow many people were watching the women then left when it was the men's time, I would be a little upset that they didn't hang around. Of course the both of you had a full room at the hotel I'm sure. Both of you quit the IFBB/NPC ball-licking, it makes you look bad worse. You get so mad at what I say, instead of reading what I write just look at each other and figure out how you will improve yourselves. And somewhere I heard both of you were okay photographers. You are right, I need to quit listening to others cause it's shit. By honeys hopefully will see you at the Olympia. Maybe we can get a group hug picture together. No handsies though
HAHA - who's mad? Simply asking you to answer the question. When all else fails deflect the attention away from what you, yourself brought up. Comped tickets - still waiting for you to state how most of the tickets were comped.
Awe a group hug in Vegas. I'm all giddy just thinking about it.
-
HAHA - who's mad? Simply asking you to answer the question. When all else fails deflect the attention away from what you, yourself brought up. Comped tickets - still waiting for you to state how most of the tickets were comped.
Awe a group hug in Vegas. I'm all giddy just thinking about it.
There were no comp tickets given out. Wow, I better tell my friend that was there to send John some money. And doesn't the competitors at least get to watch the show without paying. That equals to at least 300 comp tickets. But, I admit I might be wrong. On top of the entry fee maybe they did have to pay more money to sit in the audience to watch the show. Sorry if I am wrong
-
MrSirJoJo argues well and seems to dismiss many of my points. I enjoy a good debate although that seldom happens on Getbig. I would hope that others sense the essence of what I am saying and not try to score cheap points.
Let me get back to the point about women and male bodybuilders. Well, men and women bodybuilders is similar because most men dislike the look of women bodybuilders. Even most male bodybuilders do not fancy large muscular women. It seems that extremes in both sexes are a turnoff to the majority of the opposite sex. We all know that most people do not appreciate that posing under lights can change how someone looks and that most bodybuilders look very different just walking around or at the beach. I would bet that people do appreciate how bodybuilders look at the gym and the beach. If we say that even Steve Reeves had an ugly body then there is no hope for bodybuilding. The one thing that cannot be denied is that every average guy would feel humiliated to stand in a lineup with bodybuilders. Most average bodybuilders would not want to stand on the Mr Olympia stage except that Pelletier guy.
If bodybuilders go to some societies they will discover that the people there are impressed by muscles. So the industrial revolution did not change perceptions everywhere. The Pacific Islands, Asia, Africa and parts of South America might still be muscle friendly. The Western countries are not muscle or fat friendly. The ideal seems to be more moderate. I think that a lot of information today is disseminated more rapidly because of TV, newspapers and the internet. If we argue that there are aesthetic male bodybuilders like reeves, Zane, Paris, Jackson and so on then why haven't those guys become ideals for males everywhere? If geniuses are admired for their intellects then why aren't the best physiques admired, too, as being the epitome of physical excellence? Something is wrong here and there must be an explanation.
Let us talk about Floyd Landis. What is his name worth now? Nothing, unless he can prove he did not take drugs to improve his cycling performance. I think the media has a good idea that all the Olympia bodybuilders use steroids and who knows what else. Are they mistaken? I doubt it. Therefore the public are right that bodybuilders are drug users and therefore the fruits of that activity cannot be esteemed. That is the bottom line and I can't understand why people here cannot comprehend that there is a direct link here. If bodybuilders use gear they cannot be taken seriously as having anything that any sane, intelligent person would want. Sure, just about every male wants to have a decent physique but who wants to use dangerous drugs to get one? We cannot transcend the current negative impression the public have of us until we clean our act up. Only then can we work on changing beliefs about narcissism, homosexuality, and being musclebound. We have to get back to our roots and be healthy again. There has to be a way that bodybuilding can go mainstream. Heck, they make shows about people losing fat. How about one where they build themselves up?
Bob and other professionals are not being fair dinkum. They should be demanding that the end of steroids and other drugs has to be achieved. They should collectively be demanding rigid testing and testing during the year. Polygraphs should be used, too, to weed out the cheats. No synthol should be allowed, nor inserts including silicone. Let everyone stand on what muscle they can build in the gym and what nature has given us. If we allow some to win who do not deserve it then the whole sport is contaminated because we are rewarding falseness and that can never be something anyone should admire. Maybe it might take a long time for respect to return to what we do but it should in principle be possible to change attitudes if there is a genuine pursuit of physical excellence that goes hand in hand with fitness and health. As soon as unhealthy practices enter this sport our integrity goes out the back door.
-
MrSirJoJo argues well and seems to dismiss many of my points. I enjoy a good debate although that seldom happens on Getbig. I would hope that others sense the essence of what I am saying and not try to score cheap points.
Let me get back to the point about women and male bodybuilders. Well, men and women bodybuilders is similar because most men dislike the look of women bodybuilders. Even most male bodybuilders do not fancy large muscular women. It seems that extremes in both sexes are a turnoff to the majority of the opposite sex. We all know that most people do not appreciate that posing under lights can change how someone looks and that most bodybuilders look very different just walking around or at the beach. I would bet that people do appreciate how bodybuilders look at the gym and the beach. If we say that even Steve Reeves had an ugly body then there is no hope for bodybuilding. The one thing that cannot be denied is that every average guy would feel humiliated to stand in a lineup with bodybuilders. Most average bodybuilders would not want to stand on the Mr Olympia stage except that Pelletier guy.
If bodybuilders go to some societies they will discover that the people there are impressed by muscles. So the industrial revolution did not change perceptions everywhere. The Pacific Islands, Asia, Africa and parts of South America might still be muscle friendly. The Western countries are not muscle or fat friendly. The ideal seems to be more moderate. I think that a lot of information today is disseminated more rapidly because of TV, newspapers and the internet. If we argue that there are aesthetic male bodybuilders like reeves, Zane, Paris, Jackson and so on then why haven't those guys become ideals for males everywhere? If geniuses are admired for their intellects then why aren't the best physiques admired, too, as being the epitome of physical excellence? Something is wrong here and there must be an explanation.
Let us talk about Floyd Landis. What is his name worth now? Nothing, unless he can prove he did not take drugs to improve his cycling performance. I think the media has a good idea that all the Olympia bodybuilders use steroids and who knows what else. Are they mistaken? I doubt it. Therefore the public are right that bodybuilders are drug users and therefore the fruits of that activity cannot be esteemed. That is the bottom line and I can't understand why people here cannot comprehend that there is a direct link here. If bodybuilders use gear they cannot be taken seriously as having anything that any sane, intelligent person would want. Sure, just about every male wants to have a decent physique but who wants to use dangerous drugs to get one? We cannot transcend the current negative impression the public have of us until we clean our act up. Only then can we work on changing beliefs about narcissism, homosexuality, and being musclebound. We have to get back to our roots and be healthy again. There has to be a way that bodybuilding can go mainstream. Heck, they make shows about people losing fat. How about one where they build themselves up?
Bob and other professionals are not being fair dinkum. They should be demanding that the end of steroids and other drugs has to be achieved. They should collectively be demanding rigid testing and testing during the year. Polygraphs should be used, too, to weed out the cheats. No synthol should be allowed, nor inserts including silicone. Let everyone stand on what muscle they can build in the gym and what nature has given us. If we allow some to win who do not deserve it then the whole sport is contaminated because we are rewarding falseness and that can never be something anyone should admire. Maybe it might take a long time for respect to return to what we do but it should in principle be possible to change attitudes if there is a genuine pursuit of physical excellence that goes hand in hand with fitness and health. As soon as unhealthy practices enter this sport our integrity goes out the back door.
First off Vince B. Please stop writing novels on here..... ;D
Now you're argument for Lee Priest is flawed because not all rules are equal.
Now steroids are against IFBB policy as well as porn however usually ignored because ultimately, it doesn't affect the finances of the IFBB.
Going to compete in another organization is another thing.....
See my point...
-
Bodybuilding is a CULT LIFESTYLE choice , the only way to make a cult strong is to have total devotion from its followers , the general populous do not and have never liked CULT ideals , they see it as a threat to the Norm or the narrow minded thinking that they themselves are taught in a almost cult like manner !!!
Because of this CULT status bodybuilding has, drugs are in it to stay , because the cults followers believe that the pinnacle of the CULT is only achieved via the taking of drugs , and the powers that be over the years have made sure that this be so !!!
Bodybuilding being a CULT has its own ideals and depths of acceptance --- acceptance that any one out side of the cult looking in can not and do not understand thus do not accept , but the CULT followers do not cear as it is the acceptance of the fellow cult members that is all important to them ---- and some cult members are prepared to die for this acceptance , and with mentality like that the CULT can not be demoralised or broken --- much the way the TALIBAN are proud to blow themselves up as they see it a honour !!!
Think about it ??
-
pass the kool-aid
-
Wow Issac honey why so mad. Aren't you and Kevin staying with each other. I love when two nobodies talk to me. It makes my day. Any good naked pics of guys you got at the contest afterwards. And what does it matter if they are there for the women or men. Nothing I guess if you are a women competitor. If I was a male competitor and seeinghow many people were watching the women then left when it was the men's time, I would be a little upset that they didn't hang around. Of course the both of you had a full room at the hotel I'm sure. Both of you quit the IFBB/NPC ball-licking, it makes you look bad worse. You get so mad at what I say, instead of reading what I write just look at each other and figure out how you will improve yourselves. And somewhere I heard both of you were okay photographers. You are right, I need to quit listening to others cause it's shit. By honeys hopefully will see you at the Olympia. Maybe we can get a group hug picture together. No handsies though
Keith,
Although i would never judge a man by his sexuality, I do think you're being cheap in asking about photos of naked men in the hope of getting some freebies. Sorry I can't help but shooting naked men is not for me.
It's not unusual for some people to leave an amateur show after their friends/family have left the stage. It just proves that the general public are not interested in the sport. Had you sold enough tickets for your show you would know that.
Pointing out that the things you claim to hear are false is not ball licking. You claimed to hear that the USA's had a small audience, it was pointed that you were wrong. Then you claimed to hear that indeed it was full, but then some of the audience left. How come you don't maintain that the first source of your information was correct?
My photographic skills parallel your carreer - nothing extraordinary but pays the bills
The Olympia is always a very busy time for me but I'm sure I can take the time to have a picture taken with you. Don't worry about the "handsies", you'll have to get your reach around from your usual partner. I assume Wayne is going?
-
MrSirJoJo argues well and seems to dismiss many of my points. I enjoy a good debate although that seldom happens on Getbig. I would hope that others sense the essence of what I am saying and not try to score cheap points.
I'm not sure if you were saying you enjoyed a debate or if you were saying I was trying to score cheap points....But in any case, you also dismissed some of my points as well. I dislike people using my own quotes out of context, so I'll include your entire post, whether I address each issue or not.
Let me get back to the point about women and male bodybuilders. Well, men and women bodybuilders is similar because most men dislike the look of women bodybuilders. Even most male bodybuilders do not fancy large muscular women. It seems that extremes in both sexes are a turnoff to the majority of the opposite sex. We all know that most people do not appreciate that posing under lights can change how someone looks and that most bodybuilders look very different just walking around or at the beach. I would bet that people do appreciate how bodybuilders look at the gym and the beach. If we say that even Steve Reeves had an ugly body then there is no hope for bodybuilding. The one thing that cannot be denied is that every average guy would feel humiliated to stand in a lineup with bodybuilders. Most average bodybuilders would not want to stand on the Mr Olympia stage except that Pelletier guy.
The thing is Vince, I think the Reeves' statement is true. Even his body is not liked by the general public. It's not just that the guys on drugs are perceived as ugly by the public, it's that even natural bodybuilders are. And that's not even considering their off-season look. To see how much muscle most find attractive, before it becomes repugnant, just look at Hollywood. The average person likes to see a decently muscled Vin Diesel or the Rock, assuming they are in a role where the mucle sreves a purpose. Beyond that level of build, they become one-dimensional, one-liner in jokes, like Drago in Rocky 4 or Arnold in any opf his early movies, (which he then cashed in on by lampooning in his later movies). Notice how in most successful films, a guy with a slightly larger than average build ends up defeating the bad guy with the larger build? People like to see the everyman beat the big bad musclehead. The old David and Goliath we see in movies like Bloodsport, Universal Soldier, Jet Li movies, etc...
If bodybuilders go to some societies they will discover that the people there are impressed by muscles. So the industrial revolution did not change perceptions everywhere. The Pacific Islands, Asia, Africa and parts of South America might still be muscle friendly. The Western countries are not muscle or fat friendly. The ideal seems to be more moderate. I think that a lot of information today is disseminated more rapidly because of TV, newspapers and the internet. If we argue that there are aesthetic male bodybuilders like reeves, Zane, Paris, Jackson and so on then why haven't those guys become ideals for males everywhere? If geniuses are admired for their intellects then why aren't the best physiques admired, too, as being the epitome of physical excellence? Something is wrong here and there must be an explanation.
Great physiques have always been admired. Look at the statue of David, or Da Vinci's Vetruvian Man, among others. And famous paintings of Ulysses, Hercules, Hector, etc..always portray them as muscular. But these men were most likely much smaller than the average amateur natural BB , and more importantly, they all actually did something. They weren't revered solely for being muscular. As with Ben Johnson, these legendary men were muscular so they could do something better than the average man, not just be more muscular than the average man. The fact that the muscle is an end in itslef rather than a means to achieve an end is why bodybuilders are perceived as vain. Even men who simulate fights to the death in the UFC are not as muscular as amateur bodybuilders. I think that these fighters are the ultimate benchmark for when too much muscle becomes a hindrance with no real world application. If being that big won't even win you a fight to the death, when else would it possibly serve a purpose?
The amount of muscle that bodybuilders obtain is unnatural looking. I don't mean they achieved the muscle using "unnatural" means, like drugs, it means they have a look that is too far beyond what even the most naturally muscular people (who don't lift) have. I'm sure that in the nations you mentioned, where the indutrial revolution did not change life too drastically, the thin muscular body is admired more than the look of even a natural bodybuilder. The amount of work these people do gives them nice lean bodies, but it doesn't give them even a natural bodybuilder's body. If that type of body was valued in these types of cultures, local eugenics would have produced them by now. For this reason, as HRDCORE says below, bodybuilding will always be a cult thing. Only a fringe want to see an unnaturally muscular body. Just as only a few men want to see ridiculously large fake boobs on women.
Let us talk about Floyd Landis. What is his name worth now? Nothing, unless he can prove he did not take drugs to improve his cycling performance. I think the media has a good idea that all the Olympia bodybuilders use steroids and who knows what else. Are they mistaken? I doubt it. Therefore the public are right that bodybuilders are drug users and therefore the fruits of that activity cannot be esteemed. That is the bottom line and I can't understand why people here cannot comprehend that there is a direct link here. If bodybuilders use gear they cannot be taken seriously as having anything that any sane, intelligent person would want. Sure, just about every male wants to have a decent physique but who wants to use dangerous drugs to get one? We cannot transcend the current negative impression the public have of us until we clean our act up. Only then can we work on changing beliefs about narcissism, homosexuality, and being musclebound. We have to get back to our roots and be healthy again. There has to be a way that bodybuilding can go mainstream. Heck, they make shows about people losing fat. How about one where they build themselves up?
The circumtances of the Landis case..... to people who know drugs the way you and I do, raise a very serious issue. We both know that one dose of testosterone would have virtually zero effect on a cyclist, so we can safely conclude that it was actually a failure to mask his use that one time that led to the positive test. We could also then assume that the other riders all know the same tricks Landis knows, and simply did not screw up their masking regimens even one time. The general public won't figure that out, and they'll assume that all the cheaters would be caught, since landi was.
Bob and other professionals are not being fair dinkum. They should be demanding that the end of steroids and other drugs has to be achieved. They should collectively be demanding rigid testing and testing during the year. Polygraphs should be used, too, to weed out the cheats. No synthol should be allowed, nor inserts including silicone. Let everyone stand on what muscle they can build in the gym and what nature has given us. If we allow some to win who do not deserve it then the whole sport is contaminated because we are rewarding falseness and that can never be something anyone should admire. Maybe it might take a long time for respect to return to what we do but it should in principle be possible to change attitudes if there is a genuine pursuit of physical excellence that goes hand in hand with fitness and health. As soon as unhealthy practices enter this sport our integrity goes out the back door.
Essentially Vince, I agree with most of what you are saying. The IFBB should be demanding the end of drugs, but as I said earlier, they know that if steroid use is not restricted from the general population too, their athletes will not be much bigger than many amateurs who are willing to do crazy amounts of drugs. Getting drugs out of bodybuilding would require their removal from the general public as well. Imagine if the average State Champion High School track star was only .5 seconds slower than the best sprinters in the world! Who would pay to see the world's best? And imagine now if his times actually dropped as soon as he became a pro and began being tested for drugs!? Law enforement (who themsleves benefit from AAS and turn a blind eye) would have to clean up use among the general population before the IFBB could remove them and stay in business. If the PDI wants to have a chance, they need to petition the law to enforce AAS restrictions in the general population (although this could backfire, since the users would then give up on their hope of attaining even a PDI level physique).
-
First off Vince B. Please stop writing novels on here..... ;D
Now you're argument for Lee Priest is flawed because not all rules are equal.
Now steroids are against IFBB policy as well as porn however usually ignored because ultimately, it doesn't affect the finances of the IFBB.
Going to compete in another organization is another thing.....
See my point...
Wow you really are this stupid. In fact the porn and steroids does affect the finances of the IFBB and that is exactly why these rules are not enforced. Well over half at least pros do some kind of gay for pay or porn. ANd 100% of them do roids. So if they enforced the rules then they would have no competitors. See this affects economics of the IFBB. Where as since only one IFBB pro has decided to go over to the PDI it is easier to enforce. And basically just Lee going over doesn't effect them as much. But if 10, 20 or more IFBB pros decided to go over then the IFBB would not enforce this rules because then it would effect them financially. The easiest thing to do is just let them go over. But the IFBB would lose their stranglehold on their insecure members.
-
Wow you really are this stupid. In fact the porn and steroids does affect the finances of the IFBB and that is exactly why these rules are not enforced. Well over half at least pros do some kind of gay for pay or porn. ANd 100% of them do roids. So if they enforced the rules then they would have no competitors. See this affects economics of the IFBB. Where as since only one IFBB pro has decided to go over to the PDI it is easier to enforce. And basically just Lee going over doesn't effect them as much. But if 10, 20 or more IFBB pros decided to go over then the IFBB would not enforce this rules because then it would effect them financially. The easiest thing to do is just let them go over. But the IFBB would lose their stranglehold on their insecure members.
It all comes down to the $ keith.
Wherever the money is is where the bodybuilders will be.
The IFBB has the money with the O and the arnold and the PDI doesn't.
case closed...
-
It all comes down to the $ keith.
Wherever the money is is where the bodybuilders will be.
The IFBB has the money with the O and the arnold and the PDI doesn't.
case closed...
I agree 100%, but what he was saying was the IFBB doesn't support the anti steroid or porn rules cause it doesn't effect the IFBB financially. Yet Lee competing in another organization does. That is wrong for the reason I post. If the IFBB supoorted and enforced the steroid and porn rules their would be no O or Arnold. Who would be left to compete. If more top guys go to the PDI do you think the IFBB would enforce that rule. NO WAY. For the same reason as the steroid and porn rule.
-
Could this be what Ron is talking about? ;)
-
Lloyd Landis tested positive for testosterone after his Tour de France cycling win. Read what someone wrote about drugs ruining sports.
http://thefacts.com/story.lasso?ewcd=f593b8bab00cb3e3
Ben Johnson broke the world record in the 100 metre sprint in Korea in 1988. Today he is now remembered for being a drug cheat.
What is the situation in our beloved bodybuilding? There are no drug tests at the professional level. It is now common knowledge that every top competitor in the Olympia uses who knows what to compete. How in hell is bodybuilding going to be accepted if most use drugs and there is no testing? Answer: never!
The IFBB are now in a tight corner because the rival professional organization of DeMilia would attract open competitors is the IFBB seriously clamped down on drug use. You know, surprise testing 3 times a year for all competitors and life bans for usage. Life bans for synthol use, etc.
The price we are paying for allowing drug use is that we have no respect any more. Even natural bodybuilders get tarnished with the drug label because it is so widespread in bodybuilding. Even some of the women bodybuilders use drugs and that has virtually killed that section of the sport.
So, what are we supposed to do? Wait until Ben Weider dies and then try to resurrect our pastime/sport? If we give life bans to all drug users there won't be many competitors left to be in contests! That is just unthinkable so the people in charge play down the drug use and abuse and carry on as usual. Lee Priest is right. Bring doctors to the Olympia and test all the men and women who compete in bodybuilding and the other contests. Nothing less is going to work. If some figure out a way to beat the testing then polygraphs and random testing have to be done, too. We have to clean up the sport, not the DEA.
In other major sports, the fans think it is cheating of the athlete gets caught useing steroids.
In bodybuilding the fans would feel cheated if the guys didn't use steroids , hehehe ;D
My concern is that the fans, promoters and IFBB all get an "enhanced pro BB". BUT, the only one that assumes any legal risk is the individual pro.
-
1.The stockholders are Joe and Ben Weider.
2.Its the employes problem they are poor,they can change jobs.
3.Are you sure the IFBB is losing money?
Talk facts dont start a hypotetical discussion about what the non existent stock holders should do.
FYI there genius , Ben W died.
I guess he has stock in caskets.
-
Wow you really are this stupid. In fact the porn and steroids does affect the finances of the IFBB and that is exactly why these rules are not enforced. Well over half at least pros do some kind of gay for pay or porn. ANd 100% of them do roids. So if they enforced the rules then they would have no competitors. See this affects economics of the IFBB. Where as since only one IFBB pro has decided to go over to the PDI it is easier to enforce. And basically just Lee going over doesn't effect them as much. But if 10, 20 or more IFBB pros decided to go over then the IFBB would not enforce this rules because then it would effect them financially. The easiest thing to do is just let them go over. But the IFBB would lose their stranglehold on their insecure members.
Let's all get real for a minute.
Has bodybuilding really ever had rules and tried to enforce them like other sports? FUK no!
Drugs are one thing, but geeez, what about the fact that they hide the scores until the contest is over.
Imagine any other sport where you can't see how it is going or look at the socreboard until it is over!
THAT pretty much sums up what a farce the BB "rules" are.
Having said that, for a musclehead like me it is a good show and I enjoy it despite all the wacky, screwed up shit.
-
Wow kapow Howard laying it down.BooooooooooooM you got a bug about Pro Drug use huh?? ;)