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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Brixtonbulldog on September 08, 2006, 10:35:03 PM
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My front deltoids attach closer to my neck in the front taking a ton of the work off my chest and making it nearly impossible to train my upper chest. Does anyone else have this problem? What the hell can I do to train my upper chest without my front delts?
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What the hell can I do to train my upper chest without my front delts?
You can't..It's impossible!
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Okay.. then what can I do to isolate my upper chest even with my front delts smart guy?
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Umm... Incline Bench Press ???
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You might try pec deck flys. On a pec deck that has the resistence on the point of the elbows, rather than on handles that you would grip with the hands. One of the main functions of the pecs is to crossover the arms in front of the body. With the resistence on the elbows, better leverage on the upper/lower pec's is produced. Keep the elbows a little higher than shoulder level throughout the exercise.
Can also try cable crossovers but keep a bend in the elbows, the closest to 90 dergrre as you can. Again keeping the elbows level or a little higher than the shoulders. Flat, incline or decline DB fly's are not that effected in building the pec's for a lot of the muscle tension is reduced (or lost) when approaching the top half position.
I have a friend of mine (6'2...265lbs) with a hugh rib box and chest except that the upper pec's look flat as a pancake. Comes to the point that nothing seems to work on that area no matter what he try's. And he has the oppoutunity to workout at some top of the line hardcore BB'ing and lifting gyms around SoCal. Say's his father and brother have the same problem. His triceps and anterior delts are huge, moreso than a lot of Pro's but no upper pecs at all. Not saying this might be Brix Dog's problem but just as an example of how some genetics can really be a bitch for a few people. You usually can overcome a lot of bad genetics with a little planning, but sometime you have to deal with the cards your were delt. Good Luck.
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Okay.. then what can I do to isolate my upper chest even with my front delts smart guy?
I wasn't trying to be smart, there is no way you can train upper chest (or any part of your chest) without your front delt coming into play....but, you can try an incline incline DB with a slight rotation at the top of the movement or you can do an incline fly/press, press the DB's then at the top of the movement turn your DB's inward and then do a fly, this is done in one movement and each fly/press counts as ONE rep.
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FIRST THING.....STOP WORKING OUT FRONT DELTS!!!!!!! THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR GUYS LIKE YOU (AND ME) WHO FIND IT HARD TO ISOLATE CHEST FROM DELTS AND GET A GOOD PUMPED UP UPPER CHEST. AFTER A WEEK OR TWO OF NOT WORKING OUT FRONT DELTS YOU WILL NOTICE THAT YOUR CHEST IS DOING A WHOLE LOT MORE WORK DURING PRESSES....BUT YOU STILL MIGHT HAVE ALOT OF DELT ACTION GOING ON. IN THIS CASE...I RECOMMEND PRE EXHAUSTING CHEST WITH A COUPLE SETS OF LIGHT WEIGHT HIGH REP FLY'S WHERE YOU REALLY FEEL THE CHEST CONTRACTING....THIS WILL SET YOU UP TO REALLY FRY THE CHEST DURING PRESSES.
AS FOR UPPER CHEST.....INCLINE DUMBELL PRESSES EVERYWORKOUT....TONS OF SETS, REPS IN THE 6-8 REP RANGE..HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY.
AND STICK TO DUMBELLS....BARBELLS HAVE A TENDENCY TO STRESS THE DELTS AS WELL.
P.S... I WOULD WRITE THIS DOWN.. BECAUSE ITS PRETTY MUCH THE BEST ADVICE YOU ARE EVER GOING TO GET. ;D
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http://www.chekinstitute.com/articles.cfm?select=26
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Paul Chek is an intresting dude....master of biomechanics!
Unfortuantly he was asking how not to train the front delts while working upper chest!
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Incline flys are good. try pre-exhausting your upper pecs by incline flys then incline BB press
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Candidate what have I told you about giving advice?!!....you have the body of a severely obese middle aged woman. Don't ever give advice to anyone again.
Thanks AVBG... actually sounds intelligent.
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Candidate what have I told you about giving advice?!!....you have the body of a severely obese middle aged woman. Don't ever give advice to anyone again.
Thanks AVBG... actually sounds intelligent.
okay......but i think everyone here knows that if we went in to your gym and watched you train tomorrow....youd be following my advice. hahaha. either that, or we would see you continuing to struggle to put mass on your paper thin upper chest.
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Why... because you know nothing about training anything evidenced by your grotesque physique. Shall we go back to the pictures of your "mass." HA HA. Loser
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Candidate what have I told you about giving advice?!!....you have the body of a severely obese middle aged woman. Don't ever give advice to anyone again.
Thanks AVBG... actually sounds intelligent.
You're welcome Brixtonbulldog..
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Did you tried to sack the flat bench and try bench with a small degree, about 15.
A common problem with flat is that people tend to arch their lower back and make it a kind of decline press for the last reps.
Very interesting, but not very effective.
Or try to differ from week to week,
start one chest workout flat, and the other (normal degree) incline.
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Actually if a BB'er draws his knee's up over the body (most guy's will cross their ankles) when doing the BP (BB or DB), the back remains flat on the bench. More stress on the chest is allowed this way. Some guy's will draw up the knees when doing straight arm pullover for a better stretch. This takes the resistence from the ab 's out of the picture for that better full stretch. The Pre-exhause system , suggested by AVBG, is a good idea but you may get better results with the pec dec or even a set of cables are used rather that DB's.
Good Luck.
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try adjusting the incline of the incline bench to take your delts out as much as possible...it's what i had to do... ` :-\
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Incline flys are good. try pre-exhausting your upper pecs by incline flys then incline BB press
Yep. Also finish off with flat bench neck presses. Like a regular bench press but bring the bar slowly down to your neck, pause for a second or two, and press up. Won't take much weight and will burn your upper pecs like crazy. You'll want a spotter for sure on this one.
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Guys, this is all great advice, but he will still be hitting his front delts reguardless of what he does!
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Guys, this is all great advice, but he will still be hitting his front delts reguardless of what he does!
Definitely true. That's why I never do ANY specific front delt work, they're always gonna be sufficiently hit with chest training.
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Yep. Also finish off with flat bench neck presses. Like a regular bench press but bring the bar slowly down to your neck, pause for a second or two, and press up. Won't take much weight and will burn your upper pecs like crazy. You'll want a spotter for sure on this one.
Front neck press have with what kind of grip? Incline or no incline?
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Front neck press have with what kind of grip? Incline or no incline?
Take a wide grip, and do them on a flat bench. The pause at the bottom is what really make these a pain. Have Fun 8)
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Why... because you know nothing about training anything evidenced by your grotesque physique. Shall we go back to the pictures of your "mass." HA HA. Loser
You dumbass, thats EXACTLY what candidate's advice was for you. You thankless little punk. You come here looking for advice than you brush off people taking time out to give u advice. I really hope you apologise to the kid, who obviously has more BB knowledge than you do. ::) All you fags putting candidate down should be utterly ashamed of yourselves.
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You dumbass, thats EXACTLY what candidate's advice was for you. You thankless little punk. You come here looking for advice than you brush off people taking time out to give u advice. I really hope you apologise to the kid, who obviously has more BB knowledge than you do. ::) All you fags putting candidate down should be utterly ashamed of yourselves.
Fuck you bitch.
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You dumbass, thats EXACTLY what candidate's advice was for you. You thankless little punk. You come here looking for advice than you brush off people taking time out to give u advice. I really hope you apologise to the kid, who obviously has more BB knowledge than you do. ::) All you fags putting candidate down should be utterly ashamed of yourselves.
hahahaha, have you seen his pics? I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.
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hahahaha, have you seen his pics? I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.
A BIG grain of salt. He Looks like a fuckin bean bag chair covered in mashed potatoes. THANKS FOR THE ADVICE DOUCHEBAG!!! HAHAAHA... kill yourself.
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Take a wide grip, and do them on a flat bench. The pause at the bottom is what really make these a pain. Have Fun 8)
I gotta agree with anvil here. The stretch is amazing, and the pace is slower/limited because of the plane of motion. But when you stand up and walk to the fountain....Damn. Worth every penny. One of the best.
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hahahaha, have you seen his pics? I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.
The way he looks is irrelevant, just as it is with anyone who posts advice in here whose pics we have never seen. What I dont understand is how one guy gets shit for giving advice, while the other who gives the same advice gets praised...In fact, candidate's advice was better and lengthier with more detail. Regardless of whether his advice was good or not, it doesn't make him deserving for the shit he gets on here. Its pathetic!
..bitches.
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I'm not going to write down the advice Candidate gives, even though it's the best advice I'm ever going to get. And I don't care how he looks. A lot of PT's & strength/lifting coaches look like they never touched a weight in their lives. I can understand Candidates enthusiam towards training and I know he means well and all that other good stuff. But as we all know, no single muscle group can be isolated from another, including the anterior delts, pec's, etc.. Even when we do BB/DB curls the anterior delts are involved. When Candidate demands (in bold letters) that only the pecs be worked and not the anterior delts, than how is that possible(?). Even flys and pec decks work the delts. Just curious.
Pre-exhaustion would be the better option. Pec deck (or cables) immediately followed by incline DB presses. Though the press to the neck can be a very good movement (pre-exhause here also, if you wish) their can be a certain amount of caution to go along with this exercise. Most would require a good stretch and warm-up before doing serious sets. Go easy on the weight used at first, this exercise does not adapt to using very heavy weight as the regular BP would. Form is important in this exercise. If there is one exercise that I might suggest has a strong negative effect on the rotor cuff it would be this one exercise. The BP to the neck is not meant for everyone. Of course you will have to try it yoursef, like any other exercise, to see how it works for you. In any case, be sure to have a alert spotter when doing this exercise. Good Luck.
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hahahaha, have you seen his pics? I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.
Berzerk, where are the pics of Candidate? Can anyone give a link?
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Berzerk, where are the pics of Candidate? Can anyone give a link?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=66328.0
Of course, he's only 16 so people should probably ease up on him a bit
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=66328.0
Of course, he's only 16 so people should probably ease up on him a bit
Thanks, anvil.
All I have to say is BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA. I can't believe this guy actually has the ballz to offer ANY training advice on here. Doesn't look like he's ever touched a weight in his life.
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Once again Cand-ate-everything-inthe-fridge has made an ass of himself. I want to thank you all, from the bottom of my heart, for proving me right yet again. Haider, you're still a fag. Elvis has left the building!!!
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DB incline presses and flys, and cable incline flys. There are also some good leverage incline press machines.
Key is to experiment with the incline until the sweet spot is found that maximizes chest. Typically this will happen with lesser angles 10-35 degrees.
Another one is pulley crossovers, but bent over to the extreme, facing the floor.
Also try partials using different parts of the ROM, in order to find the range that maximizes front chest. Then use that range either for full sets or for burns post-failure.
On flys bring the elbows in towards the top of the motion, palms facing.
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hahahha. yess...that WAS me. ;D even in that shitty sitty picture i looked better than you brixton bulldog.
besides the point, size and conditiong does not equal workout knowlegde.
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hahahha. yess...that WAS me. ;D even in that shitty sitty picture i looked better than you brixton bulldog.
besides the point, size and conditiong does not equal workout knowlegde.
Oh ok... cause you owned yourself by opening your fat, cake eating mouth about shit you're just learning about.
And actually it does equal workout knowledgable you prepubescent pig. Go wash your rolls.
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Oh ok... cause you owned yourself by opening your fat, cake eating mouth about shit you're just learning about.
And actually it does equal workout knowledgable you prepubescent pig. Go wash your rolls.
I studied the effects of lifting on the human body for almost a full year before i ever touched a weight... im not "just learning" anything.
and yeah i guess your right, i mean..with all that evidence you provided to back up your statement and everything. ::)
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I studied the effects of lifting on the human body for almost a full year before i ever touched a weight... im not "just learning" anything.
and yeah i guess your right, i mean..with all that evidence you provided to back up your statement and everything. ::)
Look at yourself in the mirror... evidence enough?
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Look at yourself in the mirror... evidence enough?
no, the fact that i am extremely musclular at such a young age without the help of anabolic steroids DOES NOT mean that i have alot of workout knowledge. the fact that i have studied the science of working out and tested most everything ive heard DOES.
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Since brixton is being such a jackass who has no qualms abt throwing shit at someone trying to help him out.. and since he wants to make it a point that he wont take advice from someone who "looks like shit", I'm sure he will also oblige to post up his own pics for fair comparison.
:)
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do incline flys palms foward takes the movement off the shoulders then dumbell incline imo incline bench hits the shoulders more than dumbells.
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no, the fact that i am extremely musclular at such a young age without the help of anabolic steroids DOES NOT mean that i have alot of workout knowledge. the fact that i have studied the science of working out and tested most everything ive heard DOES.
Dude, with all due respect, you are not "extremely muscular." In actuality, you don't look like you even lift weights. Sorry to deliver this reality check to you, but...
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If you do presses with your elbows flared out all the time try bringing them down on your sides a bit. It will help. You will not be able to go quite as heavy but it will hit your pecs more directly.
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Dude, with all due respect, you are not "extremely muscular." In actuality, you don't look like you even lift weights. Sorry to deliver this reality check to you, but...
...this was over two months ago....
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Today... BEFORE the pump.
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This "candidate" dipshit can't even bench 225. He's a joke.
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Today... BEFORE the pump.
ummmmmmmmmmmmmm i really do hope your kidding.
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This "candidate" dipshit can't even bench 225. He's a joke.
??? and where did you hear this? i dont bench....i use dumbells..but im pretty sure that if i am doing work sets with the 110's then i can easily do the same with 225 on the bench.
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ummmmmmmmmmmmmm i really do hope your kidding.
I'm not... you really are a fat piece of shit.
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k...its obvious from your picture that you have no idea what your talkin about, so i will just stop responding to you.
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k...its obvious from your picture that you have no idea what your talkin about, so i will just stop responding to you.
Son.. I never asked for you to respond to this thread in the first place.
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Umm... Incline Bench Press ???
No! I think... Incline bench press!!!!! ;D