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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Hendrix on September 27, 2006, 03:49:05 PM

Title: Strength Without Results
Post by: Hendrix on September 27, 2006, 03:49:05 PM
When i train Natural i am not too strong ,Im 280 at 6ft 38 inch waist and was using 80 pound dumbells for my shoulder routine, but what blows my mind is this guy no taller than 5,6 150 at most outlifts me in every exerecise and machine lift. ???
Is it Tendon strenght or some physiolgy attribute,I,m blown away by his strength and endurance, i asked him if he was on the juice and he just laughed "no"
I am perplexed.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 27, 2006, 03:51:38 PM
When i train Natural i am not too strong ,Im 280 at 6ft 38 inch waist and was using 80 pound dumbells for my shoulder routine, but what blows my mind is this guy no taller than 5,6 150 at most outlifts me in every exerecise and machine lift. ???
Is it Tendon strenght or some physiolgy attribute,I,m blown away by his strength and endurance, i asked him if he was on the juice and he just laughed "no"
I am perplexed.

Its called fat does nothing for you.

I am as strong as I ever was 70 lbs lighter.
Remember I was deadlifting 600 at one point.  :)
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 27, 2006, 03:54:26 PM
Do you still bench 375 at a BW below 170?

Relatively speaking I do more

:)
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 27, 2006, 03:55:21 PM
Do a simple proportion of your best lifts versus your target weight.

If you are lifting more proportiately than you are stronger. :)
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: haider on September 27, 2006, 04:05:05 PM
Relatively speaking I do more

:)
what the hell is that supposed to mean? You either lift more or less relative to the weights you once used to lift.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Hendrix on September 27, 2006, 04:21:00 PM
Its called fat does nothing for you.

I am as strong as I ever was 70 lbs lighter.
Remember I was deadlifting 600 at one point.  :)
Actually my optium weight is 225 at 10% or below but in strenght wise that extra size is not all fat but added muscle, when i train natural i bulk to the point of setting a good foudation of strength for when i turn to the darkside.
Can you deadlift 600 at your current bodyweight
It pisses me off this little gym rat does 4 plates per side for reps benchpress.i Have asked him if he was juicing he just laughed and said no.
I am fucking perplexed,There must be some physiological explanation?Tendon strength.
This gym rat keeps me up at night with his lifts that i can only exceed with the darkside of the force.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 27, 2006, 04:23:20 PM
Actually my optium weight is 225 at 10% or below but in strenght wise that extra size is not all fat but added muscle, when i train natural i bulk to the point of setting a good foudation of strength for when i turn to the darkside.
Can you deadlift 600 at your current bodyweight
It pisses me off this little gym rat does 4 plates per side for reps benchpress.i Have asked him if he was juicing he just laughed and said no.
I am fucking perplexed,There must be some physiological explanation?Tendon strength.
This gym rat keeps me up at night with his lifts that i can only exceed with the darkside of the force.

Mechanical Advantage and placement of joints and Joint thickness have tons to do with it.

This dictates how gravity and inertia act upon a lever.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 27, 2006, 04:27:00 PM
When i train Natural i am not too strong ,Im 280 at 6ft 38 inch waist and was using 80 pound dumbells for my shoulder routine, but what blows my mind is this guy no taller than 5,6 150 at most outlifts me in every exerecise and machine lift. ???
Is it Tendon strenght or some physiolgy attribute,I,m blown away by his strength and endurance, i asked him if he was on the juice and he just laughed "no"
I am perplexed.

you need to give more information as to what you are doing.  How long have you been doing the 80's?  What's your routine like?  etc. 

I bet it's mostly mental, perhaps something you could be doing pre workout.....
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Bast000 on September 27, 2006, 04:27:31 PM
When i train Natural i am not too strong ,Im 280 at 6ft 38 inch waist and was using 80 pound dumbells for my shoulder routine

it's because you're weak.   80lbs dumbbells for shoulders at 280lbs   :-\
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Hendrix on September 27, 2006, 04:34:35 PM
it's because you're weak.   80lbs dumbbells for shoulders at 280lbs   :-\
I concetrate on contraction and reps i could do 120s as i have in the past but only feel distinct pain in my joints the next morning,the darkside of the force i have military pressesd 3 and half plates and the healing propertys of the juice are incredible.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 27, 2006, 04:35:01 PM
According to your physics statement, one should then be able to optimize the body usage for each movement in order to maximize the force exerted on the weight.
So, answer this, how do one calculate and find the optimal way of performing a certain exercise? (if we account to the fact that it's not easy to find the most suitable liftingposition by a one time experimentation, since other more counterproductive ways of performing an exercise over time will still perform better than using the optimal body usage for the first time).

You seem to know a lot about physics, do you got any interesting theories regarding this subject? Is there some general guidelines to follow?

I'm not a physics major but with the little bit of experience that I do have the mehanical lever that TA was talking about is valid in one way but certainly not valid in regards to a BB movement.  When you deal with a mechanical arm a lot of variables are removed that are present in the human body.  Plain and simple a mechanical lever is not going to get tired like a human arm etc..............I don't know, maybe I'm completly off track here but it doesn't seem like the same priciples apply.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: haider on September 27, 2006, 08:14:39 PM
Bump for lack of response
bump for tremendous sarcasm
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 27, 2006, 08:18:21 PM
According to your physics statement, one should then be able to optimize the body usage for each movement in order to maximize the force exerted on the weight.
So, answer this, how do one calculate and find the optimal way of performing a certain exercise? (if we account to the fact that it's not easy to find the most suitable liftingposition by a one time experimentation, since other more counterproductive ways of performing an exercise over time will still perform better than using the optimal body usage for the first time).

You seem to know a lot about physics, do you got any interesting theories regarding this subject? Is there some general guidelines to follow?

Well Mr. DF, this all depends on what your goal is.
Are you trying to move a maximal load in the most efficent manner?  Are you trying to move this load the least distance traveled?  ARe you trying to move this load the least distance traveled with the least force?  Are you trying to use this for bodybuilding.

Natural Al is right in this aspect.  Lifting a weight for efficency of work, has fuck all to do with bodybuilding.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: SteelePegasus on September 27, 2006, 08:23:35 PM
Actually my optium weight is 225 at 10% or below but in strenght wise that extra size is not all fat but added muscle, when i train natural i bulk to the point of setting a good foudation of strength for when i turn to the darkside.
Can you deadlift 600 at your current bodyweight
It pisses me off this little gym rat does 4 plates per side for reps benchpress.i Have asked him if he was juicing he just laughed and said no.
I am fucking perplexed,There must be some physiological explanation?Tendon strength.
This gym rat keeps me up at night with his lifts that i can only exceed with the darkside of the force.

wait a minute, something is not right here
you said that he was 5'6 and 150lbs correct?
also he is doing 4 plates for reps?


doesn't seem right naturally
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 27, 2006, 08:25:54 PM
wait a minute, something is not right here
you said that he was 5'6 and 150lbs correct?
also he is doing 4 plates for reps?


doesn't seem right naturally

why not? that would mean the guy is ONLY benching three times bodyweight for reps, I mean, honestly, I am sure he really can, I mean, every gym has somebody that does suchlike?

surely?
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 27, 2006, 08:28:15 PM
why not? that would mean the guy is ONLY benching three times bodyweight for reps, I mean, honestly, I am sure he really can, I mean, every gym has somebody that does suchlike?

surely?

Agreed.  This is the same cheeky fellow who converted a tie rack to hang his many weight belts so he wont have trouble color coordinating them with his wonderous assortment of Zubazz and Otomix get-ups.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: SteelePegasus on September 27, 2006, 08:32:05 PM
why not? that would mean the guy is ONLY benching three times bodyweight for reps, I mean, honestly, I am sure he really can, I mean, every gym has somebody that does suchlike?

surely?
ofcourse, you are right...he is the chosen one

he also leaps buildings in a single hop for cardio
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: brianX on September 27, 2006, 08:40:46 PM
Lots of "small" guys are strong as hell. The guy in this photo can bench 525 without equipment. :o
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: mental_masturbator on September 27, 2006, 08:46:20 PM
When i train Natural i am not too strong ,Im 280 at 6ft 38 inch waist and was using 80 pound dumbells for my shoulder routine, but what blows my mind is this guy no taller than 5,6 150 at most outlifts me in every exerecise and machine lift. ???
Is it Tendon strenght or some physiolgy attribute,I,m blown away by his strength and endurance, i asked him if he was on the juice and he just laughed "no"
I am perplexed.

Is he a Neandertal?  Perhaps one of those cave men from the Geico commercials...
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 27, 2006, 08:49:05 PM
Lots of "small" guys are strong as hell. The guy in this photo can bench 525 without equipment. :o

dude, you do realise we are talking about an obviously bullshit laden crock of shite a three times BW claim here?
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: brianX on September 27, 2006, 08:59:37 PM
dude, you do realise we are talking about an obviously bullshit laden crock of shite a three times BW claim here?

 ::)
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/2880
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 27, 2006, 09:10:36 PM

 ::)
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/2880


You spastic, we are talking about Hendrix's claims in his OP, you numbfuck

Of course three times BW lifts happen, they are something special that you dont see every day, hence my above posts

Jesus, no wonder nigh on every fucker here Sarcasm hates you

You fucking clown toolbag
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: SteelePegasus on September 27, 2006, 09:20:33 PM
dude, you do realise we are talking about an obviously bullshit laden crock of shite a three times BW claim here?
sometimes these guy don't get the humor in playing along
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: brianX on September 27, 2006, 09:25:07 PM
You spastic, we are talking about Hendrix's claims in his OP, you numbfuck

Of course three times BW lifts happen, they are something special that you dont see every day, hence my above posts

Jesus, no wonder nigh on every fucker here Sarcasm hates you

You fucking clown toolbag
405 isn't three times bodyweight for a 150 lb guy, you dipshit. That would be 450 lb. Try to learn basic arithmetic before questioning my intelligence, DIPSHIT.

It's not like Hendrix weighed the guy either. He's probably underestimating how heavy this guy is.

Go watch some more tranny porn, you sick little faggot.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 27, 2006, 09:31:01 PM
405 isn't three times bodyweight for a 150 lb guy, you dipshit. That would be 450 lb. Try to learn basic arithmetic before questioning my intelligence, DIPSHIT.

It's not like Hendrix weighed the guy either. He's probably underestimating how heavy this guy is.

Go watch some more tranny porn, you sick little faggot.

meltdown

Brian, you strike me as the type of guy that has had a severe 'brain based' reaction to shitstained rubber cocks

You truly are an incredibly putrid little article
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: onlyme on September 27, 2006, 09:46:29 PM
dude, you do realise we are talking about an obviously bullshit laden crock of shite a three times BW claim here?
Wehave 3 guys at Gold's Gym who 3 times there bodyweight.  One of them broke the World Record at my meet on 2003 Doug Ortiz.  He weighed something like 141 and bench 430+.  Those numbers aren't exact but close.  Julian Lee at 198 benched 611 back in the late 80's or early 90's.  And the other guy I never met or know.  I was told 3 guys here and I know 2 of them.  Actually it might be Francis Silva.  I know he did 600 at around 200 or so.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Hendrix on September 27, 2006, 09:49:21 PM
wait a minute, something is not right here
you said that he was 5'6 and 150lbs correct?
also he is doing 4 plates for reps?


doesn't seem right naturally
I am as perplexed as you on are this one, Hes a Mini Me Lee priest.I will try to educate this kid that he has enormous Powerlifting potential and try to get him to enter a powerlifting meet.I am a pretty good guage of weight no more than 160 soaking wet.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 27, 2006, 09:51:13 PM
Wehave 3 guys at Gold's Gym who 3 times there bodyweight.  One of them broke the World Record at my meet on 2003 Doug Ortiz.  He weighed something like 141 and bench 430+.  Those numbers aren't exact but close.  Julian Lee at 198 benched 611 back in the late 80's or early 90's.  And the other guy I never met or know.  I was told 3 guys here and I know 2 of them.  Actually it might be Francis Silva.  I know he did 600 at around 200 or so.

Yes but Keith, your Golds Gym is hardly an average backstreet gym now is it?

I think you just made my point for me mate

:)
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: onlyme on September 27, 2006, 10:00:14 PM
Yes but Keith, your Golds Gym is hardly an average backstreet gym now is it?

I think you just made my point for me mate

:)
No it s defitely not your typical gym.  But either are the 24 Hour Fitness's here.  Allot of strong guys train at them here.  As I have said all along, I have maybe trained in 200+ gyms since 1973, and nowhere have I found more strong guys in oneplace than here in Hawaii. I can bet the Gold's here on Oahu or even Kona has more 400+ benchers than any other gym in country.  I bet we have at this small gym here at least 30 guys who can bench 400+.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: jr on September 28, 2006, 01:58:14 AM
When i train Natural i am not too strong ,Im 280 at 6ft 38 inch waist and was using 80 pound dumbells for my shoulder routine, but what blows my mind is this guy no taller than 5,6 150 at most outlifts me in every exerecise and machine lift. ???
Is it Tendon strenght or some physiolgy attribute,I,m blown away by his strength and endurance, i asked him if he was on the juice and he just laughed "no"
I am perplexed.

A few things:

- bone lengths
- the position where the muscle attaches to the bones
- percentage of fast twitch muscle fibres in the muscle
- percentage of muscle fibres that can be 'switched on' by the brain/cns (no one can fire 100% of their muscle fibres)
- distance the weight has to travel (which is related to bone lengths)

There are systems in place in the muscle/tendons that prevent extreme contractions. This inbuilt mechanism is the bodies way of preventing tendon/muscle tears by inhibiting contraction. Some people through training or naturally have a very high threshold where the inhibition occurs. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golgi_organ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golgi_organ)
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: ozman on September 28, 2006, 02:07:00 AM
Lots of "small" guys are strong as hell. The guy in this photo can bench 525 without equipment. :o



What has been the highlight of your benching career?

    Dropping 601 on my sternum and fracturing my ribs for my first attempt, scratching my second and coming back to the platform to lock it out on my third attempt...then a quick trip to the emergency room.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: WiseGuy on September 28, 2006, 02:09:28 AM
When i train Natural i am not too strong ,Im 280 at 6ft 38 inch waist and was using 80 pound dumbells for my shoulder routine, but what blows my mind is this guy no taller than 5,6 150 at most outlifts me in every exerecise and machine lift. ???
Is it Tendon strenght or some physiolgy attribute,I,m blown away by his strength and endurance, i asked him if he was on the juice and he just laughed "no"
I am perplexed.

its called Anadrol-50  :-\
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 04:33:01 AM
My question is related to moving a maximal load in the most efficient manner. In other words, how can one use physics to calculate the optimal usage of the body to excel in powerlifting?

I think your looking to much into this and I think that someone who know solely physics is not going to be able to answer your question.  I think you would have to get someone who has a great knowledge of both kinseology (I know I spelled it wrong) and physics to answer this and alot of the concepts of physics are not going to transfer.  Our good buddy friction and the avoidence of plays a great role in any mechanical arm feature, this would not-in most cases-be brought into play during a lifting movement.  You're getting into acceleration formulas, angles.....the equations get very, very complicated then you can add in muscluar compression and extention...man, it's hurting my head just thinking about it. 
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Moen on September 28, 2006, 04:44:42 AM
Leverage has a lot more to do with strength than size has
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: SteelePegasus on September 28, 2006, 05:36:54 AM
Leverage has a lot more to do with strength than size has

is that what you tell your girlfriend?
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 06:28:35 AM
If the equations become complex, even better. Then I can learn some academics from it as well.

how far along are you mathwise?  I've good all the way to quadratic equations and i had a hard time with some of the formulas used in physics....when I say very complicated, I mean very, very, very complicated.  Honestly, I wouldn't even know where to start...you might want to do some searches on the net, there's got to be stuff out there.  There are sooooooooooooooooo many variables involved in advanced physics problems...you can take something as simple as sliding a piece of steel with rubber on the bottom of it across a granite table and your gonna be there all day long factoring in friction and such, now I know this isn't the same thing but you get the point.  Math and Physics get to the point where they are so geeky you have to be a total braniac to figure that stuff out.

do you have any physics classes under your belt??
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 06:36:27 AM
Here is something cool one of my friends wrote,He was a hulk comic book collector and made me watch those damn movies over and over.

Thought you guys might like it.  I will be showing some formulas on this thread as well shortly.  You will find that Natural Al is correct.  I will give you guys some cool things to maybe try.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's hardly a nerd who wouldn't like, at least once, to morph into a huge green guy and panic his tormentors. So, how is it that Hollywood can take this delicious daydream and puree it into pure broccoli juice? Let's start with a simple principle that Hollywood has failed to grasp. Bigger is not always better.

Consider the scene where the evil father genetically engineers a group of dogs into vicious behemoths and sets them on the scent of a victim to assassinate. Ironically, one of the dogs appears to be an American pit bull terrier (hence forth referred to as a pit bull). Even cat lovers will recognize this as one tough puppy. Why is this ironic? Making the dog larger would most likely make it a less effective assassin.

According to pit bull lore, they have been matched against virtually every other dog breed not to mention lions, tigers, and bears. More often than not the pit bull wins. Yes, this has a lot to do with the breed's strength and stamina but it's also because, at around 60 pounds, pit bulls are exactly the right size.

Dog breeders have produced huge fighting dogs such as the Japanese Tosa Inu which can reach 200 lbs but it typically doesn't make them better fighters than the pit bull. If a dog is scaled up, its strength will increase with the square of the scale up factor while its mass will increase with the cube of the scale up factor. For example double the size of the dog and its strength will increase by a factor of 4 but its weight will increase by a factor of 8. At some point the sheer mass of the dog will begin to limit its stamina as well as its ability to move quickly.

The best way to convert a pit bull into an assassin's tool would be to make it super smart rather than super large. A truly intelligent dog would not have to rely on the vagaries of following a scent. It could read maps, plan its attack for the best possible situation, sneak up, and quietly dispatch its victim with a quick bite to the throat. The dog already has all the jaw strength, agility, and jumping ability required to do so.

If anything, converting a pit bull into a snarling slobbering monster and sending it out with two other similar beasts would have made it a less effective assassin. How are a group of vicious dogs the size of cars going to detect and follow the scent of a person driving dozens of miles, let alone do so without alerting the community,  police, and national news media. Keep in mind that the targeted victim probably drove home, filled up with gas, and stopped at the supermarket before eventually ending up at a remote cabin in the woods.

As depicted in the movie, morphing also had serious problems. For one, it disobeyed the first law of thermodynamics. This is the most firmly established principle in all of physics and says that one cannot create mass out of nothing. No amount of mumbo jumbo about sea cucumbers and star fish can compensate for this shortcoming. If the Hulk is going to bulk up in a few seconds he's going to have to either acquire more mass, lower his density or some combination of the two. Unfortunately, gulping air is about the only choice for gaining mass and this will almost certainly lower density in the process.

By inhaling and standing in a more upright posture, a creature could appear perhaps 25% larger. A good snort of adrenalin or some other drug could conceivably increase short term strength by a factor of ten. An increase beyond this would probably cause injuries such as broken bones or torn tendons and ligaments. Combining these transformations with a color change along with growling and snarling would create a very imposing presence.

By contrast the movie has a scene in which the Hulk holds his love interest King-Kong-like in his fist. The Hulk would have to be at least ten times taller than his normal self to do so. If scaled up proportionally, the Hulk would be 1000 times more massive than his human form, but it gets worse. The comic book makers correctly gave the Hulk thicker legs and a more stout body. We say correctly because, like an elephant, he would need the thicker legs to support his increased mass. Unfortunately, increased stoutness means even more mass. The movie hulk would probably end up with at least 1500 times more mass than his human counterpart and a weight in excess of 100 tons ( 91,000 kg, assuming no density difference between hulk and human forms). Where is this mass supposed to come from?

The increase in strength with morphing is likewise ridiculous. At one point the Hulk overturns a 65 ton Abrams battle tank. This alone would require an increase in strength from human form of about a factor of 650. However, the Hulk then grabs the barrel of an Abrams tank, spins around and throws the entire tank several hundred meters. Compare this to the Olympic hammer throw which propels a 7. 257 kg ball a distance of around 80 meters. The tank is over 8000 times more massive and is thrown at least 10 times further. This suggests that the Hulk is at least 100,000 times stronger than his human form.

In order to spin and throw a tank, the Hulk would also have to be far more massive than the tank because he would have to create a huge centripetal force on the tank to make it travel in a circular path while being spun. Newton's third law tells us that forces always come in pairs which are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction. While it's being spun, the tank will create a force acting on the Hulk which is just as large as the centripetal force acting on the tank. The force would immediately pull the Hulk off-balance unless he's significantly more massive than the tank.

An Olympic hammer thrower, for example, is around  15 times more massive than the hammer. Using this conservative figure (since the tank is hurled much further than the hammer), the Hulk would have to weigh at least 975 tons (8.86 thousand kg) in order to throw the tank. However, the Hulk's volume seemed, if anything, no larger than the tank he threw. Density = mass / volume and so the Hulk's density would have to be at least 15 times more dense than the tank's density. If only 10 % of the tank's volume were steel, the Hulk's density would be 1.5 times higher than solid steel!

Since the Hulk has less area under his feet than the tank's tracks, the pressure his feet exert on the ground would probably be at least 100 times higher than the tank. He would sink when walking on soft ground or sand. When he jumped in the air the pressure exerted on the ground would increase dramatically. Hence, the Hulk would be breaking pavement under his feet not just on the landing from an incredible leap but also on the take-off.

The Hulk's ability to make these huge leaps is itself absurd. Yes, increased size typically does imply increased strength but as mentioned earlier, weight increases faster than strength. If increasing size also increased jumping ability then elephants would be able to out-leap impalas. The only solution would be for the Hulk's muscle to become, pound for pound, several orders of magnitude stronger than human muscles. There's no biological creature on Earth which has muscle even close to this level of strength.

In one scene the Hulk leaps up and grabs hold of a fighter aircraft. The Aircraft immediately heads for the stratosphere and shakes off the Hulk by causing him to pass out from lack of oxygen. Keep in mind that a fully loaded jet fighter weighs only about 15 tons. Even if we ignore the drag and other aerodynamic effects of having the hulk attached, we still have to wonder how a 15 ton aircraft can lift a 975 ton Hulk.

Yes, the Hulk is based on a comic book and so we expect bad physics. However, the bad physics in this movie are excessive even by comic book standards. We didn't go to the movie to see a raging monster trash San Francisco. We went to see the fantasy of a likeable nerdy guy reluctantly turn into an 8 foot high science project and educate the mindless, heartless cool guys who had ignorantly messed with him. What we got was a cross between King Kong and Godzilla. Not only did the moviemakers give us wrong physics, they gave us the wrong movie.

Note: Yes, we have been influenced by the TV version of the Hulk. Since he is a comic book character who knows what his "real" size is. The Hulk Library lists it as 7 feet for the green Hulk.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 06:39:31 AM
The purpose of this experiment is to locate the center of mass of people, to determine whether the center of mass is different for males and females, and to calculate the ratio of a person's center of mass to his/her height.

Introduction
The center of mass is the balance point of an object's mass. If a pivot were placed at this point, the object would remain in place and be balanced. The center of mass of a system is not always at the geometric center of the system. For example, a car's center of mass is closer to the ground rather than in the geometric center of the car so that the car is better balanced. Another example of this is the technique of a high jumper. A high jumper bends his body in a certain way so that the center of mass does not clear the bar, but the body does.

When a system is balanced around its center of mass, it is said to be in a state of equilibrium. The center of mass can be referred to as a pivot point around which the system can revolve. The system revolves due to the rotational equivalents of force, known as torques, which rotate the system either clockwise or counterclockwise. Placing a pivot at the center of mass of a system results in that system being in equilibrium and having a net torque of zero. On each end of a long, rigid body, the torque on one end is equal in magnitude but opposite in direction to the torque on the other end, resulting in a net torque of zero. The formula for torque is:

Στ = rF

Where r = radius and F = force. It is possible to locate the center of mass of a system by placing a pivot at the theoretical center of mass and using the formula for torque by setting the torques on either end of a long, rigid body equal to each other.

Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 06:40:17 AM
 order to determine the center of mass of a person, we used the formula for torque:

Στ = rF

The torques due to the weight on each end of the person were set equal to each other. The displayed weight on the scale was the force, and there are two different radii. The first radius is the distance to the center of mass from the person's feet, and the second radius is the length of the board minus the distance to the center of mass from the person's feet. The net torque of the system is zero and therefore the torques on the opposite sides of the boards must be equal:

w1x = w2(l-x),

where w1 is equal to the weight at the person's feet, x is equal to the distance from the person's feet to his/her center of mass, w2is equal to the weight at the head, and l is equal to the length of the beams. The resulting formula, when solved for the distance to the center of mass from the person's feet (radius one) is:

x = w2l/(w1 + w2)

After determining the location of each person's center of mass, the ratio of the center of mass to the height of each person was calculated using the formula:

x/h,

where x is the location of the person's center of mass and h is the person's height.

Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 06:40:54 AM
Conclusion
A person's center of mass is slightly below his/her belly button, which is nearly the geometric center of a person.
Males and females have different centers of mass- females' centers of mass are lower than those of males.
The average ratio of center of mass to height in females is approximately 0.543 and the average ratio of center of mass to height in males is approximately 0.560.
Sources of Error
Clothing contributed to the weight of the subjects and therefore resulted in a shift in each person's center of mass.
The subjects' heartbeats caused their center of mass to shift because one's center of mass changes as the heart dilates and constricts- pumping blood throughout the body.
Stephanie Gambino, Michael Mirochnik, Scott Schechter -- 2006

Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 07:00:15 AM
was he looking for center of mass or was he looking as to how you would use a physics equation to best set yourself up mechanically to lift the most?  I guess I didn't understand what he was looking for if it was center of gravity....
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 07:09:54 AM
was he looking for center of mass or was he looking as to how you would use a physics equation to best set yourself up mechanically to lift the most?  I guess I didn't understand what he was looking for if it was center of gravity....

Center Mass has a direct  correlation regarding a maximal lift. Finding the center mass in a certain position will enable one to lift maximally,while gravity is a constant, center mass will dictate a lower or higher center of gravity making a load movement more effecient.

The beauty of bodybuilding is that, none of this shit matters, like you said Natural AL. 
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 07:12:33 AM
was he looking for center of mass or was he looking as to how you would use a physics equation to best set yourself up mechanically to lift the most?  I guess I didn't understand what he was looking for if it was center of gravity....

Balance and shape of the load moved also has a lot to do with it.

Simple Example:  Ever try carrying a bulky, 50 lb box?

Then you carry a 50 lb Dumbell.....Sure both weigh the same, but the Box is always harder to carry.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 07:15:46 AM
By shape I am in effect referring to the mass of the object spread over the constant, which is gravity.

A 50 lb Dumbell and a 50 lb box have the same gravitational pull yet the center mass and centers of gravity are completely different, causing more force and work for lifting one,than the other.


The same is demonstrated in humans as a simple machine.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 07:21:17 AM
Tendon Density and Constriction will also dictate the amount of force involved to perform a set amount of work in a set distance.


Powerlifting is unfair because humans are not all effecient levers, nor do they have the same centers of gravity.

Density of bone is very important as well. 

Also consider this,  IF you increase your center mass, which you could do by wearing 300 T-Shirts, Your Squat numbers would be considerably higher.

Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 07:23:00 AM
Center Mass has a direct  correlation regarding a maximal lift. Finding the center mass in a certain position will enable one to lift maximally,while gravity is a constant, center mass will dictate a lower or higher center of gravity making a load movement more effecient.

The beauty of bodybuilding is that, none of this shit matters, like you said Natural AL. 

I was looking at the end result instead of addressing it step by step, I still think it would be a total bitch to figure something like this out strictly looking at it from a mathmatical perspective.  The equations would get outrageous, you'd have vectors all over the place, compression, extention, acceleration.......if you wanna do it go ahead but it's making my brain hurt.......
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 07:32:10 AM
Now this is why DC trainers are under the impression that they are making muscle gains.

They are getting fatter,changing their fulcrum points and centers of gravity with the added fat,which will allow them to lift more weight, and in turn seeing the gravitational pull on their increasing "mass from stored energy", they confuse it as a muscle gain.

It is not classified as a strength gain pe se` because when losing the fat, you lose mass which will then change the fulcrum points and center of gravity once again.

Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: mrsirjojo on September 28, 2006, 07:32:33 AM
It's called the square-cube law, and it was first noticed by Galileo. To sum up...

If I doubled in size, my absolute strength would increase by a factor of 4 (not 2) but my volume would increase by a factor of 8. Thus, I would be 4 times stronger, but only half as strong as I was before, relative to my weight (it was one to one before but now it is four to eight). This is why an elephant can't carry another elephant on its back, but you could carry your girlfriend on your back, and an ant could carry 50 of his pals on his back.

Likewise, if you shrink something, it becomes weaker and weaker absolutely, but stronger and stronger relative to its own size. This is why ants and other insects and little powerlifters are so strong, for their size. It's also why you can drop a toy truck from 100 feet and nothing happens to it, but a real truck would get destroyed. It's also what limits the size of living things, from cells to bluewhales to dinosaurs.

In fact, a human the size of an ant would be about 3 times stronger than an ant, assuming it could survive at that size (it can't, too many physiological reasons to list, but tiny and large animals have extremely different biologies for a reason).
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 07:37:11 AM
It's called the square-cube law, and it was first noticed by Galileo. To sum up...

If I doubled in size, my absolute strength would increase by a factor of 4 (not 2) but my volume would increase by a factor of 8. Thus, I would be 4 times stronger, but only half as strong as I was before, relative to my weight (it was one to one before but now it is four to eight). This is why an elephant can't carry another elephant on its back, but you could carry your girlfriend on your back, and an ant could carry 50 of his pals on his back.

Likewise, if you shrink something, it becomes weaker and weaker absolutely, but stronger and stronger relative to its own size. This is why ants and other insects and little powerlifters are so strong, for their size. It's also why you can drop a toy truck from 100 feet and nothing happens to it, but a real truck would get destroyed. It's also what limits the size of living things, from cells to bluewhales to dinosaurs.

In fact, a human the size of an ant would be about 3 times stronger than an ant, assuming it could survive at that size (it can't, too many physiological reasons to list, but tiny and large animals have extremely different biologies for a reason).

Exactly why I am stronger now, than When I was eating Chicken Breast and Oats at 70 lbs overweight.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 07:38:21 AM
Now this is why DC trainers are under the impression that they are making muscle gains.

They are getting fatter,changing their fulcrum points and centers of gravity with the added fat,which will allow them to lift more weight, and in turn seeing the gravitational pull on their increasing "mass from stored energy", they confuse it as a muscle gain.

It is not classified as a strength gain pe se` because when losing the fat, you lose mass which will then change the fulcrum points and center of gravity once again.



why would you even start this again?  First if someone is training in a true DC manner and has any common sense they would realize if they were strictly gaining fat, it's not that hard to see.  Second you discount so many aspect of the system in your argurements it's not even funny.  If you would like to have an intellegent conversation as to why I don't believe you will be gaining strictly fat on this program I'll be glad to but there's more to it than you make it out to be and you know it.  DC recommends doing cardio for fat control, if your getting fat doing what your doing you can control it by a number of ways.  If your a sloth and don't bother to do what is recommended then you will add fat but I bet your gonna add a ton of muscle too.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 07:39:38 AM
why would you even start this again?  First if someone is training in a true DC manner and has any common sense they would realize if they were strictly gaining fat, it's not that hard to see.  Second you discount so many aspect of the system in your argurements it's not even funny.  If you would like to have an intellegent conversation as to why I don't believe you will be gaining strictly fat on this program I'll be glad to but there's more to it than you make it out to be and you know it.  DC recommends doing cardio for fat control, if your getting fat doing what your doing you can control it by a number of ways.  If your a sloth and don't bother to do what is recommended then you will add fat but I bet your gonna add a ton of muscle too.

I was being faceitious. :)
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 07:47:45 AM
It's called the square-cube law, and it was first noticed by Galileo. To sum up...

If I doubled in size, my absolute strength would increase by a factor of 4 (not 2) but my volume would increase by a factor of 8. Thus, I would be 4 times stronger, but only half as strong as I was before, relative to my weight (it was one to one before but now it is four to eight). This is why an elephant can't carry another elephant on its back, but you could carry your girlfriend on your back, and an ant could carry 50 of his pals on his back.

Likewise, if you shrink something, it becomes weaker and weaker absolutely, but stronger and stronger relative to its own size. This is why ants and other insects and little powerlifters are so strong, for their size. It's also why you can drop a toy truck from 100 feet and nothing happens to it, but a real truck would get destroyed. It's also what limits the size of living things, from cells to bluewhales to dinosaurs.

In fact, a human the size of an ant would be about 3 times stronger than an ant, assuming it could survive at that size (it can't, too many physiological reasons to list, but tiny and large animals have extremely different biologies for a reason).

Yes!

Animals biologies are Strictly a result of evolution.

I always wondered what would happen to a human population in space over time if continually bred in a Zero-G enviroment.

The lifespan would certainly decrease at first, as limbs would become useless,causing poor blood flow leading to hosts of other problems.   Eventually, Humans would not have limbs.

:)
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: rccs on September 28, 2006, 07:58:58 AM
Actually my optium weight is 225 at 10% or below but in strenght wise that extra size is not all fat but added muscle, when i train natural i bulk to the point of setting a good foudation of strength for when i turn to the darkside.
Can you deadlift 600 at your current bodyweight
It pisses me off this little gym rat does 4 plates per side for reps benchpress.i Have asked him if he was juicing he just laughed and said no.
I am fucking perplexed,There must be some physiological explanation?Tendon strength.
This gym rat keeps me up at night with his lifts that i can only exceed with the darkside of the force.
By the size you are telling, your "strong" friend must be master YODA!!!! "The dark side leave you must. With mr train you should"! Some day he will tell you that, don't worry!!!
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 08:20:14 AM
Evolution my friends is the most amazing thing.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: mrsirjojo on September 28, 2006, 08:24:36 AM
Exactly why I am stronger now, than When I was eating Chicken Breast and Oats at 70 lbs overweight.

You could also cut off your legs and have a better bench, pound for pound. That isn't what the square-cube law explains though.

Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: mrsirjojo on September 28, 2006, 08:28:20 AM
When humans get technology advanced enough to breed in a Zero-G environment (unless they make a spacestation which emulates gravity through some kind of centrifugal movement perhaps) they would probably also be able to do some genetical manipulation of themselves to adapt to the new environment ;)

There are still a number of things to work out first. Bone density diminishes quickly in space. Gravity could be simulated though, by spinning the craft, as in 2001.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 08:30:06 AM
There are still a number of things to work out first. Bone density diminishes quickly in space. Gravity could be simulated though, by spinning the craft, as in 2001.

Yes.Spinning would increase the G-pull.

2001 is one hell of a movie.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 08:32:55 AM
Yep, spinning the craft = centrifugal mechanism.

Not only bone density, but also the stuff that produces red bloodcells also diminishes from what I've heard.(damn, can't remember the english word for it  ;D )

Something that I have been wanting to try is to build a weight suit that covers the entire body with weight, In fact, mimicking the effect of an increased gravity.  Muscles and tendons would be forced to adapt.  Making it ambulatory and feasible with a given adjustable increasing resistance is difficult though.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 08:56:34 AM
If you really did that, it would be a great experiment. The question is if the human genetical programming has limits regarding adaption to extraordinarily high G forces. You might adapt, or you'll just become fatigued.

What about designing it with some sort of micro hydrolic devices with adjustable strength, or changeable rubberbands? Both could yield increased resistance, although it would be one hell of an engineering feat to pull it off :)

Yes!

I have thouught about this as well with my muscle suit.

The real issue would be joint wear. 
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 08:58:22 AM
hahhahhha I can picture it now.

Me eating Ice Cream and Pizza all day wearing my muscle suit posting on here about how gym memberships are pointless.

hahhahah
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 09:15:34 AM
HAHAHAHA  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Keep us updated on the Gravity suit project, whatever the result will be, it's interesting, challenging and intellectually stimulating. Engineering type academics can sometimes seem abstract, but when one start using it to create something, it's fun as hell!

I have actually come up with a way to mimicking the gravity suit using gym equipment!!!!!

It just occurred to me while sitting here thinking.

I am going to try my hypothesize........Time to try another fun method!

This is going to be interesting.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: HUGEPECS on September 28, 2006, 09:16:55 AM

 ::)
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/2880




holy shit, that's fcuking impressive to say the least.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: HUGEPECS on September 28, 2006, 09:23:00 AM
No it s defitely not your typical gym.  But either are the 24 Hour Fitness's here.  Allot of strong guys train at them here.  As I have said all along, I have maybe trained in 200+ gyms since 1973, and nowhere have I found more strong guys in oneplace than here in Hawaii. I can bet the Gold's here on Oahu or even Kona has more 400+ benchers than any other gym in country.  I bet we have at this small gym here at least 30 guys who can bench 400+.



What's your best lift on the bench Onlyme?
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Xecutioner on September 28, 2006, 09:23:36 AM
This has been one of the more interesting threads in a while. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 09:29:04 AM
This has been one of the more interesting threads in a while. Thanks guys.

I can continue if you would like.

Perhaps it will make a lot of people realize that it is completely fine that they don`t bench or squat a certain weight.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Xecutioner on September 28, 2006, 09:40:53 AM
By all means, continue.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: mrsirjojo on September 28, 2006, 09:54:44 AM
Something that I have been wanting to try is to build a weight suit that covers the entire body with weight, In fact, mimicking the effect of an increased gravity.  Muscles and tendons would be forced to adapt.  Making it ambulatory and feasible with a given adjustable increasing resistance is difficult though.

This already exists. It's called Fat. Just gain a ton of weight and wear a football helmet. It's why fat people are strong at static lifts like the bench but suck at anything that also requires them to move their lardasses at the same time, like a vertical jump.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 09:56:45 AM
This already exists. It's called Fat. Just gain a ton of weight and wear a football helmet. It's why fat people are strong at static lifts like the bench but suck at anything that also requires them to move their lardasses at the same time, like a vertical jump.

Thats not enough weight and it is not applied adequately in the right places.

Plus fat takes a while to strip off, whereas a Muscle suit you could take on and off in an instant.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 28, 2006, 10:16:40 AM
TA, may I congratulate you on your nonchalant sidestepping of Natural Als hamfisted attempt to spike you

Deft, most deft

:)
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: mrsirjojo on September 28, 2006, 10:43:25 AM
Thats not enough weight and it is not applied adequately in the right places.

Plus fat takes a while to strip off, whereas a Muscle suit you could take on and off in an instant.

THey do make weght vests for athletes, but I wouldn't recommend them unless, ironically, you're already so fit you can barely benefit from one anyway, since you can kill your joints wearing them.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 11:00:15 AM
THey do make weght vests for athletes, but I wouldn't recommend them unless, ironically, you're already so fit you can barely benefit from one anyway, since you can kill your joints wearing them.

The stress I think is due to the unequal placement which causes an imbalance of force upon the body.

The weight has to be equally distributed and correct points so that the chance of injury will be statistically lower.

I may never have to leave my computer chair for Mr. Getbig 2007.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 11:01:02 AM
The stress I think is due to the unequal placement which causes an imbalance of force upon the body.

The weight has to be equally distributed and correct points so that the chance of injury will be statistically lower.

I may never have to leave my computer chair for Mr. Getbig 2007.

Let me add to that.

My workouts will be trips to the fridge.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 11:15:31 AM
Terms of physics:

Gravity: is the natural force of attraction between any two objects. The force of attraction is constant at 9.8 m/s^2.

Work: is the transfer of energy by mechanical means. It can be calculated by multiplying the amount of force  applied to the object by the distance that the object moved.

Power: is the amount of work that is performed per unit time.

Friction: is the force the opposes the motion of an object. It acts against the movement of an object and is equal in strength to the force applied to the object. (Static friction is the force the opposes the initial movement of an object's resting position.)

Simple machine: is a simple device, such as a pulley or an inclined plane that changes the magnitude or  direction of the applied force. (A complex machine is a system made up of many simple machines.)

Mechanical Advantage: is the ratio of the force exerted by a machine to the force applied to the machine. Having more mechanical advantage on a machines, makes it seem like you are doing less work, but in reality you are not. A machine with a higher mechanical advantage supports the load better.

Potential Energy: is the amount of energy that an object has stored up an is equivalent to the product of the object's mass multiplied by the force of gravity multiplied by the object's distance from it's initial position.

Kinetic Energy: is the amount of energy that a moving object possesses. An object's kinetic energy is greatest when it is halfway between the two ends of its motion.

Mechanical Energy: is the sum of the potential and kinetic energies of an object at any given moment. In a closed system, mechanical energy remains unchanged. Although the amounts of energy can change back and forth between kinetic and potential.

Acceleration: is measured by dividing an object's velocity by a unit time. The gravitational acceleration constant is 9.8m/s^2. It is the rate at which an object's velocity changes.

Velocity: is equal to the distance that an object travels per unit time in a certain direction. It is a vector quantity, meaning it contains both speed and direction.

Mass: is unaffected by the location of the object. It can be calculated by dividing the amount of force acting on it by its acceleration.

Forces (Fa, Fn, Ff, and Fw): Force applied is the force in which the person applies to an object (person to barbell). Force friction is the force that the object exerts equal in magnitude but opposite in direction of the Force applied. Force weight is the force in which the object exerts in the negative direction (value is the object's weight multiplied by gravity in N.) Force normal is the force exerted by the floor or where the object is resting equal in magnitude but opposite in direction of the Force weight.

Newton's 1st law: states that a body will remain moving at a constant speed (which could be zero) and in the same direction until acted upon by an outside force.

Newton's 2nd law: states the measurement of the amount of force acting on an object is equal to the object's mass multiplied by it's acceleration.

Newton's 3rd law: states that for every force acting on an object, the object exerts an equal force back but opposite in direction.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 11:16:39 AM
You might not realize it, but every time you weight lift you are actually performing work on the barbell.

    By definition Work is the "transfer of energy by mechanical means". Work can be calculated by multiplying the amount of force (N) applied to the object by the distance (m) that the object moved.

W = F x d

Where work is measured in the Joule(J), force in  Newtons(N), and distance in  meters(m)

    The unit of work is a Joule(J) which is named in honor of the physicist James Prescott Joule (1818 - 1889) who discovered that there was a link between heat and other forms of energy. One Joule is equal to one Newton-meter.

For example, if you are performing a hang clean, every time you push the bar upwards, it is accelerating against the force of gravity (Fg = 9.8m/s^2). Lets say that you started with the weight resting on the floor and raised it above your head to a final height of 6m above the ground - the distance the bar traveled is 6m up. If you pushed upwards on the weight with enough force to accelerate the bar 14.8m/s^2 upwards, the total acceleration of the bar would be (14.8m/s^2 up - 9.8m/s^2 down) 5m/s^2 in the upwards direction. If the bar had a mass of 10kg then the total amount of force that you applied to the bar would be 50N (Force is measured by the unit Newton(N), 1N = 1kg m/s^2). Now you can substitute those values into the equation W = F x d. Your final answer should be W = 300J (W = 50N x 6m).

    In order to calculate the work that has gone into lifting your weights, you must first know how to calculate force. The force applied to an object is equal to the mass of the object times the objects acceleration.

Fa = m x  a

   

    You might be thinking 'well that sounds simple, all I do to calculate work is multiply the distance I lifted the weight by the force that I had to apply to it'. There is however one very important condition.

 For work to be done on an object, the force has to be in the same direction as the object's movement!   

    Weights are not always lifted in perpendicular or parallel lines to the floor, sometimes weightlifting involves tricky things called angles. If your weightlifting exercise involves angles, such as the 45 degree leg press, in order to properly calculate the amount of work you do on the weight, you have to visualize a triangle and split up the distance into both vertical and horizontal parts by using the following set of equations:

Tan (angle theta) = opposite/adjacent

Cos (angle theta) = adjacent/hypotenuse

Sin (angle theta) = opposite/hypotenuse

    If you were lying on your back and raised a 45 pound weight (20.45 kg) 1 meter at a 45 degree angle how much work would you have performed?

 

    In order to calculate the above problem you have to remember that to calculate work the force applied to the object has to be in the same direction as the distance the object is moved. Although you are pushing the weight over and up a total of 1 meter you are only raising the weight .707m (Sin45 = y/1m   y = .707m vertically). Now that you have the distance the object is moved you have to calculate the amount of force acting on the object. Since F = ma the total force acting on the weight is 200.41N (F = 20.45 x 9.8m/s^2). You now have all of the necessary components to calculate work. W = (200.41)(.707m) = 141.69J

   
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 11:17:25 AM
By definition, Power is the amount of work that is performed in a certain amount of time.

P = W / t

    Since work is measured in the unit of Joules, and time is measured in seconds, Power is measured in Joules/Second, or watts. Most often though, watts are to small of a measurement, therefore we use the measurement of kilowatts (1000 watts.) Machines tend to use horsepower rather than watts. One horsepower is equal to 750 watts.

    While a bulky weightlifting may look as if he is more powerful than woman lifting lighter weight, the woman may have more power. If each weightlifter was doing the same amount of work, but in shorter amounts of time, they would have different amounts of power.

Scenario 1:

A man is bench presses 225 lbs (102.27 kg), 10 times in 1 minute in a distance of 0.5 m Another man bench presses 225 lbs, but 10 times in 10 seconds also in a distance of 0.5 m Who has more power?

Answer:

    Both men do the same amount of work but in different times. They each do1002.27 J of work. W=(102.27*9.8m/s^2)(0.5m). Man one does 16.75 watts of power. (1002.27 J / 60 seconds.) Man two does 100.23 watts of power. (1002.27 / 10 seconds.) Because Power = work/time, the second man has more power because he does the same amount of work in less time.

Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 11:18:08 AM
Friction is the force that opposes the motion of an object. It acts against the movement of an object and is equal in strength to the force applied to the object. When using free weights the concept of Friction really does not come into play because the only thing touching the weight is your hand (which is not supposed to move on the bar) and air. The only friction that is applicable when using free weights is Static Friction. Static friction is the frictional force which acts in opposition to the initial movement of an object (in this case a weight) from its resting position. If the force that you apply is not greater than the value of the static friction, the weight will not move. Static friction opposes the start of motion, thus if you are not strong enough to move the weight, it will not move.

    The other type of friction involved when using weightlifting machines is Kinetic Friction. Kinetic Friction is the frictional force that opposes the motion of an object and acts to slow it down when no other outside forces are being applied to propel it. In order to keep your weight moving at a constant velocity (Nobody lifts in jerky movements!) you must apply an equal force but opposite in direction of the force friction.   

      The force of Static Friction is greater than Kinetic Friction. That is why it is easier to continue pushing an object once it is already moving than it is to initially get the object going. The frictional force can be calculated by multiplying the coefficient of friction (a constant) by the normal force. The normal force is equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to the force of weight.   

 

Ff = uFN

Force friction = coefficient of friction x Force normal

    The coefficient of friction is a constant, but is different for every material. You must apply a large force over the force friction to get the object moving. If your force applied is not larger than the force friction, the object will not move. 

    Friction plays a key role in weightlifting machines. You will notice that sometime weightlifters cannot even pull a bar down that is on a system of pulleys? Are they not strong enough? No. Sometime it is actually the friction between the plastic coated wires and the pulleys. Thus, it is always important to keep your machines lubricated. A lubrication is a substance that reduces friction, heat, and wear as a film between solid surfaces. Failure to do so will create difficulty for the weightlifter!

Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 11:18:51 AM
Energy by definition is actually "the ability to produce a change in itself or its surroundings" What does this mean? It is the effect of doing work. When you lift a barbell, you give the barbell a certain property. If you drop the barbell, it can do work; it could exert a force that would crush your toes. Say you were running while carrying a 45 lb plate. If you drop this plate or roll it, you have given it an opportunity to exert a force. You have given these objects energy.

    By doing work on a barbell or machine, you have transferred energy from your body to the object. That is why we say work is the transfer of energy by mechanical means. There are two main types of energy, potential and kinetic. Keep reading below to discover how each energy affects weightlifting.

Potential Energy:

  An weightlifting object can store energy as the result of its position. When you are locked out at the top of a bench press, the bar has has stored energy. The stored energy is what we call Potential Energy. Likewise, when you pull down a bar on the lat pull down machine and hold it, you have given it potential energy.

   There are two types of potential energy, gravitational and elastic. We will deal with only gravitational though, as elastic concerns elastic materials which are only present in plyometric training. Gravitational energy is the stored energy of an object due to its height or vertical position. This energy is stored as a result of the constant gravitational attraction to the earth. (9.8m/s^2). The amount of this type of potential energy is dependent on two factors--the mass of the object and its height that it is raised to. More massive objects have a greater gravitational potential energy. Also, the higher an object is the more gravitational potential energy it has. We can express that potential energy is equal to:

PE (in joules) = mass * gravity * height

PE=mgh

Mass represents the mass of the object, gravity as 9.8m/s^2, and height as the distance where the object is above the ground.

   In order to determine the gravitational potential energy, you must first designate a zero height or reference level. This height is where the object is first at rest. Your zero height is where your barbell, dumbbell, or weight is first located an initial position. Dealing with the bench press and squat, the zero height would be where the bar rests on the rack initially.

Scenario:

A female bodybuilder decides to squat 355 lbs (161.36 kg). She rests the rack 2 m above the ground. How much potential energy does the bar have?

Answer:

Since the object is at rest, it has potential energy. PE = mgh. So, PE = (161.36 kg)(9.8 m/s^2)(2 m). The bar has 3162.73 J of potential energy.

Kinetic Energy:

  An object that has motion has kinetic energy. The tricep bar that you push down has kinetic energy. The 35 lb dumbbell you curl has kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is defined as "is the amount of energy that a moving object possesses." The value of kinetic energy depends on two variables--the mass of the object and the velocity of the object. We express kinetic energy as:

KE= 1/2 * mass * velocity^2

KE, like all forms of energy, is measured in joules

   Looking at the equation, you can tell that a 45 lb barbell has more kinetic energy than a 15 lb dumbbell, assuming their velocities are equal. But how can you get equal amounts of kinetic energy when masses are different? Simply increase the velocity of the smaller object. But how do you increase the velocity of the dumbbell? You must exert a larger force. To do this, we must see how work is equal to kinetic energy.

   Newton's second law shows the relationship between performing work and kinetic energy. According to Newton's second law, F= ma, an object is accelerated with a sure constant acceleration if a net force is exerted on it (must be constant.) We know that work is equal to Fd. If we assume that the initial velocity of this dumbbell was zero, we can find the relationship between work and kinetic energy.

Using the equation, vf^2=vi^2 +2ad we can find the relationship:

If vi=0, than the equation collapses to v^2=2ad, or d=v^2/2a

Work is then equal to mad. (F=ma)

Work then translates to = ma(v^2/2a)

                                    = 1/2 mv^2

Work done on is equal to the kinetic energy gained by the dumbbell.

   But not all objects start at rest. Therefore, they already have kinetic energy. If an object already has KE, then work would be equal to the change in kinetic energies.

Wnet = KE final - KE initial

   This equation is called the work-energy theorem. It states that "the net work done on an object is equal to its change in kinetic energy." This equation indicated that if the work done on an object is positive, the kinetic energy increases. Work is positive when it is performed in the same direction of the object. So if you apply a 10 N force to a barbell upwards during a preacher curl, your kinetic energy will increase because the directions are the same. If the net work done is negative, the kinetic energy decreases.

Scenario:

A man deadlifts 486 lbs (220.91 kg) with a final velocity of 3 m/s. If the barbell was initially at rest determine the amount of  kinetic energy.

Answer:

KE= 1/2mv^2. V is equal to Vf-Vi. So to solve this problem you just plug in all the components. KE= 1/2(220.91kg)(3 m/s-0m/s), which equals 331.37 Joules
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 11:19:40 AM
When you walk into a gym there are two main types of weightlifting machines. Free weights, which have no help from machines to assist you and weightlifting machines, such as Nautilus, Cybex, and Hammer Strength which control the motion of your lift. Machines are used primarily by novices and elderly as well as those who are trying to work a specific muscle very strongly. Machines help ease the constant load of the weight, thus making it seem easier to lift a certain weight for a certain exercise.

                                 

               Free weights                                                  Machines

(http://www.deltafit.com/images/barbell.jpg)         ( http://www.pro-fitness.com/latpulldown.htm)

   There are both advantages and disadvantages to both styles of weightlifting. Free weights work better if you are trying to bulk up on muscle quickly since your muscles are under a constant load of weight. Your muscles have to work to move the weight from its resting position and they also have to work to bring it back. There is no help except if you cheat, as do most weightlifters. By cheating, you are using other insignificant muscles to help lift the weight, thus removing the constant load away from the muscles that are supposed to be worked.

   Weightlifting machines actually take pressure off of your muscles because you can spread the load over a larger muscle group. If you are a novice weightlifter it is smart to initially use the weightlifting machines so that you do not pull a muscle or seriously injure yourself by mishandling a free weight or using improper technique to do a lift. Weightlifting machines are also useful to perform exercises that can not be done using free weights, such as the Ground Base Jammer, which is a favorite amongst football players. This machines helps build the pectoral and shoulder muscles, a must for lineman and blockers.

     

Ground Base Jammer

(http://www.fitness-design.com/lf_gb_jammer.htm)

   A machine is a device that transfers a force letting us do Work with less effort. When you use a weightlifting machine you are applying a force to that machine in order to move the apparatus. There is also a force being exerted by the machine. A person can often times lift more weight using a weightlifting machine as opposed to free weights because of the machines Actual Mechanical Advantage. Every machine has a different Actual Mechanical Advantage. Actual Mechanical Advantage is calculated by dividing the amount of force produced by the machine by the amount of force you have to apply to the machine.

 

AMA = Fresistance / Feffort

    In other words mechanical advantage can be found by dividing the weight of the object being lifted (Force weight = mass x acceleration) by the amount of force that you have to apply to lift it. The Actual Mechanical Advantage of a machine is calculated taking into account the resistance force of friction.

   If a weightlifting machine is an Ideal machine, the amount of work put into lifting the weight is equal to the amount of work done by the machine because there is no friction. Unfortunately, because there is always someamount of friction existing when two objects rub together, ideal machines exist nowhere but in theory. There is a formula to calculate the Ideal Mechanical Advantage of a machine (ignoring frictional forces).

 

IMA = d effort / d resistance

    Which means that you can calculate the Ideal Mechanical Advantage of a machine by dividing the distance you have to apply the force for by the distance the resistance moved.

   All machines have a certain level of Efficiency which is equal to the amount of Work produced by the machine divided by the amount of Work that you have to put into the machine.

  Efficiency = Wout / Win

    Some examples of simple machines that help you to do Work while weightlifting are levers, wheel & axle, pulleys, and incline planes. Most weightlifting machines (especially novice machines such as Cybex) use pulleys to decrease the amount of effort you have to put in to raise a certain weight. When using pulleys, the IMA can be found by adding the number of strings that the weight is hanging from and that are supporting the weight!

   For example, if the weight is hanging from two cords the IMA = 2:1 which means that you only have to apply half the amount of force that you are trying to lift. If you were lifting a 100 lb weight using a machine that had 2 cords attached to the weight you would actually only feel the effect of lifting a 50 lb weight.

   There are some machines in which there is only the use of one pulley and two cords, but a majority of the weightlifting machines today use many pulleys and cords as well as different angles. By having a wide variety of angles and pulleys, the user can see for himself which position is more comfortable and which load feels best.

 An example of a machine with many pulleys. Some machines have as many as 12 pulleys for one exercise!

(http://www.pro-fitness.com/cablecross.htm)

   

 

 

 

    However, with the use of machines comes another force. That force is the force of tension. Tension arises from the use of ropes or cables to carry a force. (In this case, tension forms in the cables that a weightlifter uses in machines such as cable crossovers, pushdowns, etc.) When a lifter applies a force to the bar to pull the weight down, he is not directly applying a force to the weight stack. Instead, he is exerting a force on the cable which transmits that force onto the load of weight. The force experienced by the weight stack from the cable is called the tension force.



   However, in an ideal world these cables would have no mass, perfectly transmitting the force applied to the stack of weight. If the cable was in fact massless, it would always experience two opposite but equal tension forces.

   Because most machines uses pulleys, we must address the following issue.

Pulleys do not change the magnitude of the force of the cable. They only change the direction!

    We will assume that our cables are massless. From the figure below you can see that the pulley changes the direction. Notice the forces of -T and T. When a cable is used in a pulley, the cable must still experience two opposite but equal forces. It may look like it is experiencing the forces in the same direction, but with the pulley it makes it possible. The pulley changes the direction of the force. When analyzing a pulley situation with a force tension, you must look at the shape of the rope to determine direction. The positive direction of the rope is pointing upward on the left side and pointing downward on the right side. Now you can see that the rope does actually experience two equal but opposite forces.

Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 11:20:56 AM
TA, may I congratulate you on your nonchalant sidestepping of Natural Als hamfisted attempt to spike you

Deft, most deft

:)
may I congratulate you on trying to point out something that was not there?  I looked waaaay to far ahead......I was thinking how would someone figure out the best mechanical positioning to perform a certain movement and how complicated the actual equation would be which I think has been proved by all the posts above, plus your not even factoring Kinseology into it at this point....when you get down to it I never even said I really knew alot about physics, I've taken 2 classes but the classes that I took were a little to geeky for me, I've never used anything I learned at work in those classes and I'm an engineer...what do you do?  Arent' you sitting in prison or something?



You really can be a first class prick ya'know that?  Really, what do you add to the board besides being an asshole?
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 28, 2006, 11:24:37 AM
may I congratulate you on trying to point out something that was not there?  I looked waaaay to far ahead......

You really can be a first class prick ya'know that?  Really, what do you add to the board besides being an asshole?

Aw, raw nerve dookums?

LOL, cheers for picking up on my ickle post, and thusly giving your game away

TA has fucking destroyed you here, you knew all too well that he would, hence your attempt at a decidedly 'subtle' spiking of TA, a subtle approach that reveals nothing other than your complete lack of self belief

you are pathetic, a tiny tits par excellance

Now get back in your box, you ham fisted, foolish cuntbox
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 11:28:57 AM
Aw, raw nerve dookums?

LOL, cheers for picking up on my ickle post, and thusly giving your game away

TA has fucking destroyed you here, you knew all too well that he would, hence your attempt at a decidedly 'subtle' spiking of TA, a subtle approach that reveals nothing other than your complete lack of belief in your abilities

you are pathetic, a tiny tits par excellance

Now get back in your box, you ham fisted, foolish cuntbox
no, I don't think so....aren't you rotting away in prison?  I could get out my physics book and start copying equations down too...but I'm working.

You're pathetic...but it really doesn't matter you'll be banned again in about 2 weeks so in the meantime fuck off and die, and while your banned fuck off and die....

you're a worthless piece of shit...nothing more than a toadie and a lapdog for TA, must be fun having to rim him on a daily basis you freakin tranny loving homo......
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 28, 2006, 11:30:54 AM
no, I don't think so....aren't you rotting away in prison?  I could get out my physics book and start copying equations down too...but I'm working.

You're pathetic...but it really doesn't matter you'll be banned again in about 2 weeks so in the meantime f**k off and die, and while your banned f**k off and die....

you're a worthless piece of shit...nothing more than a toadie and a lapdog for TA, must be fun having to rim him on a daily basis you freakin tranny loving homo......

Hahahahahaha, and so there it is, in its full glory

God I'm good, you sad little fruit

Several pages with no result, what a shit effort on your part, lol, lamer
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 11:33:15 AM
Hahahahahaha, and so there it is, in its full glory

God I'm good, you sad little fruit

Several pages with no result, what a shit effort on your part, lol, lamer
you're dellusional, first I never ever said I knew the equations, second you haven't added shit.  You've probably never even taken a physics class....you talk like you know so much but you don't know jack shit....

What do you do for a living???

You're entire existance has been a shit effort hahahahahahahahahahahaha ...must be nice having to reregister here every few months cause you get your worthless ass banned every few weeks.

YOu suck.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 28, 2006, 11:35:16 AM
you're dellusional, first I never ever said I knew the equations, second you haven't added shit.  You've probably never even taken a physics class....you talk like you know so much but you don't know jack shit....

What do you do for a living???

You're entire existance has been a shit effort hahahahahahahahahahahaha ...must be nice having to reregister here every few months cause you get your worthless ass banned every few weeks.

YOu suck.

meltdown
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 11:37:53 AM
meltdown
not quite, just telling the truth, fact of the matter is I could probably get you banned right now, I know your throwing your rascist shit around here already......

must suck to sit in time out for months at a time with nothing else to do, doesn't it jailbird? 
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 28, 2006, 11:42:19 AM
not quite, just telling the truth, fact of the matter is I could probably get you banned right now, I know your throwing your rascist shit around here already......

must suck to sit in time out for months at a time with nothing else to do, doesn't it jailbird? 

so, what have we thus far? a none too subtle attempted ensnarement, a barage of crazy none too focused insults, eratic typing, all hallmarks of the low calibre fuckwit

LOL, I bet you are sitting there, sat in piss, chewing your nails, hating moi.. king woten, the majestic figure that has blown apart your attempt to hang TA out to dry, you snidy little shitbag

You are on thin ice, sonny
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 11:49:44 AM
so, what have we thus far? a none too subtle attempted ensnarement, a barage of crazy none too focused insults, eratic typing, all hallmarks of the low calibre fuckwit

LOL, I bet you are sitting there, sat in piss, chewing your nails, hating moi.. king woten, the majestic figure that has blown apart your attempt to hang TA out to dry, you snidy little shitbag

You are on thin ice, sonny
when did I attempt to hang him out to dry?  You're a complete idiot, no sense at all.  No eratic typing, don't know what your talking about, I'm busy doing other things not sitting in prison like you with nothing else to do.

I'm on thin ice?  c'mon, you gotta be kidding me.  From you?  C'mon, you got nothing but moronic posts and a few little buddies on here....maybe this weekend I'll go through your posts and send a few of them to Ron and see if I can get your sorry ass kicked off for a few more weeks...mabye not, who knows?  It's not like your little pussy ass means anything to me....you're a guy with nothing to do but sit in his cell and rip on people, must be nice.

Piece of trash.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 28, 2006, 11:52:47 AM
when did I attempt to hang him out to dry?  You're a complete idiot, no sense at all.  No eratic typing, don't know what your talking about, I'm busy doing other things not sitting in prison like you with nothing else to do.

I'm on thin ice?  c'mon, you gotta be kidding me.  From you?  C'mon, you got nothing but moronic posts and a few little buddies on here....maybe this weekend I'll go through your posts and send a few of them to Ron and see if I can get your sorry ass kicked off for a few more weeks...mabye not, who knows?  It's not like your little pussy ass means anything to me....you're a guy with nothing to do but sit in his cell and rip on people, must be nice.

Piece of trash.

epic self ownage
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 11:57:13 AM
epic self ownage
epic inmate with nothing better to do with his life.  Go check out some trannies, piece of trash.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: onlyme on September 28, 2006, 11:59:47 AM
I had a saying painted in my gym I put up that said

"It's not the weight you lift, but the gravity you conquer"
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 28, 2006, 12:00:01 PM
epic inmate with nothing better to do with his life.  Go check out some trannies, piece of trash.

nothing wrong with a hot tranny

Now, shouldnt you be running along to yaroni? you inadequate scumbag
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 12:03:20 PM
nothing wrong with a hot tranny

Now, shouldnt you be running along to yaroni? you inadequate scumbag
nope not going anywhere until 4 o'clock...

shouldn't you be getting ready for "chowtime"?  Then off to the community shower for you....nice life...and you say I'm inadequate, what have you contributed to society?  zip.  That's what, now go make your bed before a guard kicks your ass.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 28, 2006, 12:05:49 PM
nope not going anywhere until 4 o'clock...

shouldn't you be getting ready for "chowtime"?  Then off to the community shower for you....nice life...and you say I'm inadequate, what have you contributed to society?  zip.  That's what, now go make your bed before a guard kicks your ass.

Be your own fuckin man for God's sake, not a sheep

TA, shepards cocksockets like you on a daily basis

You are not, and will never amount to anything, you are too busy trying to pull down the achievements of those with talent

Sad little clown
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 12:10:03 PM
Be your own fuckin man for God's sake, not a sheep

TA, shepards cocksockets like you on a daily basis

You are not, and will never amount to anything, you are too busy trying to pull down the achievements of those with talent

Sad little clown

awwww, what's a matter woten, you melting down over there.

You're a sheep and a toadie, face it, adams your sheppard.  For all your elitism, your nothing more than a sheep.  At least the other guys are a llittle slow so I understand them but you think your smart that's what makes it worse.

here, repeat after me sheep:  bahhhhh, bahhhhhhh, bahhhhhh

now get ready cause adam will want his balls sucked on for a few hours and your next in line....

toadie, sheep, lapdog.....pick one, they all apply.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 12:13:34 PM
so, what have we thus far? a none too subtle attempted ensnarement, a barage of crazy none too focused insults, eratic typing, all hallmarks of the low calibre fuckwit

LOL, I bet you are sitting there, sat in piss, chewing your nails, hating moi.. king woten, the majestic figure that has blown apart your attempt to hang TA out to dry, you snidy little shitbag

You are on thin ice, sonny
Exemplary Articulation Demonstrated by a Full Crescendo of Heightened Reverie.  Ahhh, such Sweet,Symphonic Bliss emanates from this melody. If Wagner`s Ride of the Valkyries was broken into word format, Woten`s posts would be the literary equivalent.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 12:17:21 PM
Exemplary Articulation Demonstrated by a Full Crescendo of Heightened Reverie.  Ahhh, such Sweet,Symphonic Bliss emanates from this melody. If Wagner`s Ride of the Valkyries was broken into word format, Woten`s posts would be the literary equivalent.

he's still a lapdog...nothing againts you, must be nice having these drones at your beck and call.  It's just a shame to thinkk that grown men let another dude lead them around by a leash.  Pathetic.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 12:25:19 PM
Be your own fuckin man for God's sake, not a sheep

TA, shepards cocksockets like you on a daily basis

You are not, and will never amount to anything, you are too busy trying to pull down the achievements of those with talent

Sad little clown

woten, I'll go out on a limb and say I've accomplished more in the last 5 years of my life than you have in yours.  What do you do for a living?  Oh, that's right..inmate.   I work as have a nice desk job.  Whrere's your house?  Oh, that's right you live in a cell.  I live in a nice house and own two cars.  Now go make my next liscense plate, loser.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: Woten on September 28, 2006, 01:00:18 PM
he's still a lapdog...nothing againts you, must be nice having these drones at your beck and call.  It's just a shame to thinkk that grown men let another dude lead them around by a leash.  Pathetic.

Jesus, still attempting to claw some dignity out of your current position eh? you are pathetic

As has been established, you have everything against TA, everything. Your little scam was revealed for the snidy poorly planned affair that it was, you, sonny jim, were caught wanking in the pantry at 3am with your cock - and indeed balls - planted firmly in the jam jar, shame on you.. especially in light of your above appeal re: 'I have nothing against you TA', weak, so very weak

Also, as per you nonsense attack, I am not a mere drone, I am simply a gentleman, a pure bred lord of the manner who could not - and indeed did not - sit idly by as such an uncouth individual (such as yourself) engaged in scurrilous, low, ungentlemanly conduct, shameless infact

It was my goal to reveal you as the backstabbing, snidy (and indeed clumsy) little bastard that you are, a goal that has undeniably been accomplished (accomplished in part thanks to your desire to reveal to the world just how much of a dirty specimen you are, and for that, we thank you!)

woten, I'll go out on a limb and say I've accomplished more in the last 5 years of my life than you have in yours.  What do you do for a living?  Oh, that's right..inmate.   I work as have a nice desk job.  Whrere's your house?  Oh, that's right you live in a cell.  I live in a nice house and own two cars.  Now go make my next liscense plate, loser.

As has been covered here many times, my life is rather cosy, I live in retired bliss on the south coast of England, a life that has been crafted by my very own fair hands

I do not - nor do I have to - work, I am very well off

I was involved with several of the largest supplement companies in Europe, two of them now having multi million turnovers, and prior to this, in the early 90's, was one of the first to bring creatine to the European markets, yes, I couldnt fucking move for money during this time, sorry if this isnt as per your weak script above, but then again, when ad hominem is all you have... its all you have, eh?

In short, I piss all over you, piss all over you weak subterfuge, and piss all over your life, oh and, I also keep an eye out for decent folks, folks throughly undeserving of such conduct as that which you have been so fucking eager to bring to the table in this thread

as said, you are a scurrilous piece of work

Now, be gone, you heel!
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 01:29:14 PM
Jesus, still attempting to claw some dignity out of your current position eh? you are pathetic

As has been established, you have everything against TA, everything. Your little scam was revealed for the snidy poorly planned affair that it was, you, sonny jim, were caught wanking in the pantry at 3am with your cock - and indeed balls - planted firmly in the jam jar, shame on you.. especially in light of your above appeal re: 'I have nothing against you TA', weak, so very weak

Also, as per you nonsense attack, I am not a mere drone, I am simply a gentleman, a pure bred lord of the manner who could not - and indeed did not - sit idly by as such an uncouth individual (such as yourself) engaged in scurrilous, low, ungentlemanly conduct, shameless infact

It was my goal to reveal you as the backstabbing, snidy (and indeed clumsy) little bastard that you are, a goal that has undeniably been accomplished (accomplished in part thanks to your desire to reveal to the world just how much of a dirty specimen you are, and for that, we thank you!)

As has been covered here many times, my life is rather cosy, I live in retired bliss on the south coast of England, a life that has been crafted by my very own fair hands

I do not - nor do I have to - work, I am very well off

I was involved with several of the largest supplement companies in Europe, two of them now having multi million turnovers, and prior to this, in the early 90's, was one of the first to bring creatine to the European markets, yes, I couldnt fucking move for money during this time, sorry if this isnt as per your weak script above, but then again, when ad hominem is all you have... its all you have, eh?

In short, I piss all over you, piss all over you weak subterfuge, and piss all over your life, oh and, I also keep an eye out for decent folks, folks throughly undeserving of such conduct as that which you have been so fucking eager to bring to the table in this thread

as said, you are a scurrilous piece of work

Now, be gone, you heel!
Lord Byron and William Blake are smiling in amazment.  Woten, can I have it on good oath, that if unforseen and unfortunate circumstances befall you and such that, you  expire pre-maturely from your lush, baronic empire in Southern England, would it be a dis-service to have your remains glorified in greatness and with the dignity you so dearly deserve by being placed,albeit , where they surely belong in The Poets' Corner" of the famous Père Lachaise.

I am sure I can muster up the currency to honor you as such...Would you give me that honor?
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 02:40:46 PM
Jesus, still attempting to claw some dignity out of your current position eh? you are pathetic

As has been established, you have everything against TA, everything. Your little scam was revealed for the snidy poorly planned affair that it was, you, sonny jim, were caught wanking in the pantry at 3am with your cock - and indeed balls - planted firmly in the jam jar, shame on you.. especially in light of your above appeal re: 'I have nothing against you TA', weak, so very weak

Also, as per you nonsense attack, I am not a mere drone, I am simply a gentleman, a pure bred lord of the manner who could not - and indeed did not - sit idly by as such an uncouth individual (such as yourself) engaged in scurrilous, low, ungentlemanly conduct, shameless infact

It was my goal to reveal you as the backstabbing, snidy (and indeed clumsy) little bastard that you are, a goal that has undeniably been accomplished (accomplished in part thanks to your desire to reveal to the world just how much of a dirty specimen you are, and for that, we thank you!)

As has been covered here many times, my life is rather cosy, I live in retired bliss on the south coast of England, a life that has been crafted by my very own fair hands

I do not - nor do I have to - work, I am very well off

I was involved with several of the largest supplement companies in Europe, two of them now having multi million turnovers, and prior to this, in the early 90's, was one of the first to bring creatine to the European markets, yes, I couldnt fucking move for money during this time, sorry if this isnt as per your weak script above, but then again, when ad hominem is all you have... its all you have, eh?

In short, I piss all over you, piss all over you weak subterfuge, and piss all over your life, oh and, I also keep an eye out for decent folks, folks throughly undeserving of such conduct as that which you have been so fucking eager to bring to the table in this thread

as said, you are a scurrilous piece of work

Now, be gone, you heel!
boy, I must have really hit a nerve, eh?  I don't even need to read your long winded, moronic drivel.  It's the same shit out of your mouth all the time.  You're smarter than everyone else...blah, blah, fucking blah.

first off, I don't know where you get I attacked adam in this thread, I did nothing of the sort.  You're feeling you have to stick up for him by attacking me speaks volumes off who you are and what your agenda is.  Wether you admit it or not your a first class, not bones about it lapdog.  Adonis leads you around by a leash, plain and simple.  This is the position you have assumed on this site, wether you like it or not.

I caught one thing from your long winded rant.  You don't have to work cause your so well off.  Right.  You're so well off you get banned from this site all the time and keep on coming back?  You can't post on any other board cause they'd ban your ass quicker than you can make a liscence plate.  Without this place to type up your moronic racial attacks you'd dry up and blow away.

You mean nothing to me.  Plain and simple.  deal with it slick.  You have nothing in life, obviously you have nothing better to do with yourself than start petty arguements.  Sad life you got there pal.

Now go on with your pathetic existance, wait for adonis to say jump so you can ask how high.  Maybe he'll pat you on the head.  Hell, maybe he'll even give you a "bone" for your efforts as petty as they are.

You've proven nothing to me except that you're a toady and a lapdog, everybody knows it, I just had the balls to say it.

Now sit down woten before I go roll up a newspaper and spank your nose, you little tiny titted toady.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: natural al on September 28, 2006, 02:52:56 PM
Woten your a wanker plain and simple.  When I said "nothing againts you" to Ta I meant in that particular post.  It's not his fault that you give him a virtual blow job every chance you get.  You're looking waaaay to much into this one.

TA knows how I feel about him, I've said it many times, go check the mr. getbig forum, we had it out a number of times over there.  TA said in one of them that he didn't want to fight with me about everyhting so I made a conscious effort to be nice and not start anything just for the sake of starting something.  I still think he's a manipulative person-which you've proven in spades with your posts in this thread.  I'll be glad to tell him excactly what I think of him, no problem there, it's been done before and it ain't a big deal to do it again.

You're a rich old man who worked for some supplement companies, huh??  Says alot for the companies you worked for when you're here on the net being a servant to a 24 year old kid.
Title: Re: Strength Without Results
Post by: The True Adonis on September 28, 2006, 06:58:38 PM
This is good info my friends,

I want everyone to read this.