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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: daddy8ball on February 01, 2013, 05:45:59 PM

Title: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: daddy8ball on February 01, 2013, 05:45:59 PM
I saw the Mechanical Engineer thread earlier, so I thought I'd ask.

This is bodybuilding related because there are many software applications in the fitness arena.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: WOOO on February 01, 2013, 05:50:12 PM
I write DNA into your mother daily.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: outby43 on February 01, 2013, 05:55:14 PM
I saw the Mechanical Engineer thread earlier, so I thought I'd ask.

This is bodybuilding related because there are many software applications in the fitness arena.

It is saturated IMO.  Unless you come up with something that is not offered yet.  Not sure what that could be.

I just happen to think though..I will look, but I wonder if there is a game like Dopewars geared toward bodybuilders and Steroids.  You can start off a gymrat, work your way up and get connections to a source, then yourself starting selling gear,  do a few contests, Get a sponsor, Fuck fitness chicks, etc...
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: cephissus on February 01, 2013, 06:00:57 PM
im going to graduate in march

don't know what exactly is meant by "saturated"... lots of my friends have got jobs in the 70-100k range straight out of school

raymondo is a programmer
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: outby43 on February 01, 2013, 06:02:56 PM
im going to graduate in march

don't know what exactly is meant by "saturated"... lots of my friends have got jobs in the 70-100k range straight out of school

raymondo is a programmer

Oh..I was trippin.  I read it as Bodybuilding specific apps.  My bad.  Yeah...good field and pays great.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 01, 2013, 06:24:10 PM
Used to. Now I head up all of engineering. Most time I wish I was writing code again.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: daddy8ball on February 01, 2013, 06:25:50 PM
Used to. Now I head up all of engineering. Most time I wish I was writing code again.

Curious: What were you writing? What language/IDE did you use?
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Hulkotron on February 01, 2013, 06:27:20 PM
I write DNA into your mother daily.

I came here to make an "I engineer some serious hardware for your mother on an afternoonly basis" but see that I was beaten.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: WOOO on February 01, 2013, 06:28:53 PM
I came here to make an "I engineer some serious hardware for your mother on an afternoonly basis" but see that I was beaten.

Hi hulkotron
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: daddy8ball on February 01, 2013, 06:30:51 PM
Your moms get my RAM every day.  ;D
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: WOOO on February 01, 2013, 07:13:28 PM
Your moms get my RAM every day.  ;D

Your mom cleans my power supply while hulkotron's plays with her titties.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 02, 2013, 04:34:13 AM
Curious: What were you writing? What language/IDE did you use?

Started many moons ago writing in C. Then we moved the C++. Then I got a gig writing Java, then C#, then back to C++, the back to Java. Now that I am in mgmt, I oversee a C#, Objective C (iOS) shop.

IDE? For Java, I liked IntelliJ. For C#, got to go with MS Dev Studio. For anything on Linux, I usually use vi, sad to say.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 02, 2013, 04:38:29 AM
BTW, the new hotness language out there is Ruby. There aren't enough devs that know it, so they are making bank. If I had to do it all over again, I would have just learned Python and be done with it.

Oh, and bodybuilding related: Dorian can't do fuck-all in Python, so fuck him.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: breakmore on February 02, 2013, 04:49:09 AM
Just finished my mid intern ship going to graduate in a year or so. Experience in .net, c#, vb. And of course  markup stuff html, css etc My previous education was 4 year ict network management. Further experience in database etx.

Still contemplating graduating in a programming like job direction. I still have my last internship 1.5 year away. Ict just has such a wide job base.  I still don't know what to choose and i am 25 lol.  ;D
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Dragoon on February 02, 2013, 04:50:57 AM
There is virtually 0% unemployment for programmers (assuming you have actual coding skills and aren't just a google parrot)... and it has been this way for many years.  Even with all the outsourcing/offshoring etc.  I made a good living at it for many years but moved up to management.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 02, 2013, 05:03:18 AM
Just finished my mid intern ship going to graduate in a year or so. Experience in .net, c#, vb. And of course  markup stuff html, css etc My previous education was 4 year ict network management. Further experience in database etx.

Still contemplating graduating in a programming like job direction. I still have my last internship 1.5 year away. Ict just has such a wide job base.  I still don't know what to choose and i am 25 lol.  ;D

It's a decent mix. I like the networking and DB background. It'll set you apart. You might want to figure out where in the stack you want to be: at the top, working with HTML, CSS and scripting languages. Or in the pit, working with networking, algorithms and databases. I always gravitated to the pit.

With your networking bg, you might want to start looking at distributed systems, or continuous delivery methods, both of which are HUGE right now. In the pit, you'll probably want to start looking at java or C. Stick with java, and get a good cross platform scripting language: perl or python.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: pedro01 on February 02, 2013, 05:06:41 AM
Indeed...

www.jigsawtrading.com

Started programming at 13, first commercial system live at 17, then I discovered women & its been downhill since.

I'm 42
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: breakmore on February 02, 2013, 05:11:43 AM
It's a decent mix. I like the networking and DB background. It'll set you apart. You might want to figure out where in the stack you want to be: at the top, working with HTML, CSS and scripting languages. Or in the pit, working with networking, algorithms and databases. I always gravitated to the pit.

With your networking bg, you might want to start looking at distributed systems, or continuous delivery methods, both of which are HUGE right now. In the pit, you'll probably want to start looking at java or C. Stick with java, and get a good cross platform scripting language: perl or python.

Yes i am thinking about a direction to choose. Front-end or back-end. During my internship i had a varied experience writing cool code for the companies own developed cms, including nice user control with quite intricate coding. And also had a lot of new experience regarding the front end, including responsive webdesign, html5 etc. I truly do not know what to choose, i think i will go where the money is, or maybe work in a relatively small company and do a varied mix of the two. The bosses at my last intern ship said the future was with front-end including new JavaScript libraries, apis and cool new techniques.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: daddy8ball on February 02, 2013, 05:18:17 AM
Yes i am thinking about a direction to choose. Front-end or back-end. During my internship i had a varied experience writing cool code for the companies own developed cms, including nice user control with quite intricate coding. And also had a lot of new experience regarding the front end, including responsive webdesign, html5 etc. I truly do not know what to choose, i think i will go where the money is, or maybe work in a relatively small company and do a varied mix of the two. The bosses at my last intern ship said the future was with front-end including new JavaScript libraries, apis and cool new techniques.

I would choose whichever is harder.

The earlier comment about Ruby was interesting. I've heard that not enough devs know it too. Maybe I'll read up.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 02, 2013, 09:07:58 AM
I would choose whichever is harder.

Don't be a hero. Choose the one that is most in demand. That isn't always the hardest one. More chicks on the top of the stack than in the pit.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 02, 2013, 09:23:28 AM
Also, get up to speed in virtualization. Nowadays, in the real world, if you aren't conversant in VMware, Xen or KVM, you won't get noticed by a saas shop. It's all clouds now.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: muscularny on February 02, 2013, 11:13:38 AM
if you are a good fast coder + system admin and yes you can be both, you can make 350k working from home or 90k working for someone in a office

learn

php
mysql
html css (not for design but rather just basic understanding)
javascript
vmware / server management big plus

here is the good news, in 30 days you can learn the basics of php, html and js, once you know the basics you can easily find the code online that you need or close to it and you can modify it

mysql you will need a good 60 days to really understand it well

vmware and basic server stuff 15 days

key is practice dont be scared to test stuff etc

many people call themselves webdesigners, programmers etc, go out there try to get something done, very few are workers, they might have the skill but if they cant get themselves to do things who cares

for those who get things done you will have a endless stream of work

Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: disco_stu on February 02, 2013, 12:32:03 PM
Also, get up to speed in virtualization. Nowadays, in the real world, if you aren't conversant in VMware, Xen or KVM, you won't get noticed by a saas shop. It's all clouds now.

let me get this straight...you are a coder, and now head engineering?

im calling BS. you might head engineering software development, or software...but no way a coder ends up heading engineering.

never heard of it and never seen it in 20 years of professional engineering.

the coders are in nerd land. the engineers are nerdy, but they arent playing WoW in the evenings.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: NYSTATEOFMIND on February 02, 2013, 12:44:52 PM
BTW, the new hotness language out there is Ruby. There aren't enough devs that know it, so they are making bank. If I had to do it all over again, I would have just learned Python and be done with it.

Oh, and bodybuilding related: Dorian can't do fuck-all in Python, so fuck him.

very true..i know consultants at the bank of america who make like 100-125/hr as python developers

I know some firms were looking at Scala as the next sexy language as well
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: tu_holmes on February 02, 2013, 12:45:12 PM
What is this software stuff you speak of?
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 02, 2013, 01:53:34 PM
let me get this straight...you are a coder, and now head engineering?

im calling BS. you might head engineering software development, or software...but no way a coder ends up heading engineering.

never heard of it and never seen it in 20 years of professional engineering.

the coders are in nerd land. the engineers are nerdy, but they arent playing WoW in the evenings.


Well, since we are a software company, "heading up engineering" means that all of dev and qa and all of the devops and all of our data centers and their management report up through me. My official title is "VP, Engineering".

Once a coder, always a coder. But I don't have a lot of time for code these days. I do miss it.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 02, 2013, 01:58:43 PM
I never had much time for WoW, but these days I spend a LOT of time managing my son's Minecraft server...
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: WannaBePro on February 02, 2013, 02:06:27 PM
I'm a software developer and work on vb.net and c#.
Its a great job, pay is alright and wasn't hard to actually find a job right out of school (Had 2 offers within 2 months of searching).
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 02, 2013, 02:22:02 PM
im going to graduate in march

don't know what exactly is meant by "saturated"... lots of my friends have got jobs in the 70-100k range straight out of school

raymondo is a programmer

Hi bro, how's the dissertation coming along?
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 02, 2013, 02:28:03 PM
Software engineer, won't enclose details about my "career" coz it will bring too unwanted attention :D

Software engineers are most boring people on the planet, 90% of them are either married or 30 yo virgins. Once we obtained device that belongs to company I used to work in from a guy from our team... He forgot to close browser. Fucker was watching porntube on corporate device, on corporate wifi, at work. Guy wears shirts in pants, uses ton of lube on his hair and says hello directly to everyone in company every friggin time he comes there. Creepy as fuck.

But most fucked up part is working with bunch of guys who are unable to talk about anything except from software, new hardware and getting drunk, maybe their kids if they're married.

Ok, I stand corrected, MOST HORRIBLE PART about them being nerds is that they keep picking on my food. I was told by my parents its rude to comment on other people's food while eating, especially when you want to make a negative comment. But every fucking day I get some comments from fuckers who want to tell me that "diet coke is unhealthy" or "you eat too much chicken", "your diet is boring", "you add ketchup to everything, that's weird", "why do you drink olive oil". Just shut the fuck up already, FFS. I swear one day I will burst out or start spamming them with detailed analysis of what they had for a dinner with pubmed articles about trans fats and other shit they digest every day.

Not sure how is that related to this particular job but for whatever reason everyone who has ever made a comment about my food was a software engineer :D
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 02, 2013, 02:30:38 PM
let me get this straight...you are a coder, and now head engineering?

im calling BS. you might head engineering software development, or software...but no way a coder ends up heading engineering.

never heard of it and never seen it in 20 years of professional engineering.

the coders are in nerd land. the engineers are nerdy, but they arent playing WoW in the evenings.


True dat.

Coders don't make good team leaders/managers. Some are brutally inhibited. Others are near autistic. A few think they know everything and will take it personally if you criticise their ideas.

In my first job the IT manager was a former coder and I have to say, contary to the norm, he was a pretty effective manager and comfortable in his own skin. However, as a coder he was only average. On the day I gave my notice he took me out to lunch and told me he found coding hard and didn't really enjoy it.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 02, 2013, 02:34:43 PM
True dat.

Coders don't make good team leaders/managers. Some are brutally inhibited. Others are near autistic. A few think they know everything and will take it personal if you criticise their ideas.

In my first job the IT manager was a former coder and I have to say, contary to the norm, he was a pretty effective manager and comfortable in his own skin. However, as a coder he was only average. On the day I gave my notice he took me out to lunch and told me he found coding hard and didn't really enjoy it.

I would say 9 coders out of 10 are autistic. Especially younger generation, for whatever reason. Veterans (40+) are mostly cool, laid back guys who are generally good at dealing with people. My younger colleagues tho... I don't know a single guy who would make a good leader in future, myself included.

I could imagine myself planning bigger projects or making important decisions, but dealing with people, especially THIS kind of people... That's worse than parenting kids actually.

Trolling aside, honest answer - would you like to be team leader if you could make just as much money just coding?
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 02, 2013, 02:36:01 PM
Software engineers are most boring people on the planet, 90% of them are either married or 30 yo virgins. Once we obtained device that belongs to company I used to work in from a guy from our team... He forgot to close browser. Fucker was watching porntube on corporate device, on corporate wifi, at work.


LOL, you must work at a shit company if they have left porn sites unfiltered. Not to mention the "corporate wifi" bit, LOL. Tell your stupid asshat admins that wifis are not suitable for use in corporate networks as any stupid kid can attempt to hack them from his car in the parking lot.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: doison on February 02, 2013, 02:39:12 PM
Software engineer, won't enclose details about my "career" coz it will bring too unwanted attention :D

Software engineers are most boring people on the planet, 90% of them are either married or 30 yo virgins. Once we obtained device that belongs to company I used to work in from a guy from our team... He forgot to close browser. Fucker was watching porntube on corporate device, on corporate wifi, at work. Guy wears shirts in pants, uses ton of lube on his hair and says hello directly to everyone in company every friggin time he comes there. Creepy as fuck.

But most fucked up part is working with bunch of guys who are unable to talk about anything except from software, new hardware and getting drunk, maybe their kids if they're married.

Ok, I stand corrected, MOST HORRIBLE PART about them being nerds is that they keep picking on my food. I was told by my parents its rude to comment on other people's food while eating, especially when you want to make a negative comment. But every fucking day I get some comments from fuckers who want to tell me that "diet coke is unhealthy" or "you eat too much chicken", "your diet is boring", "you add ketchup to everything, that's weird", "why do you drink olive oil". Just shut the fuck up already, FFS. I swear one day I will burst out or start spamming them with detailed analysis of what they had for a dinner with pubmed articles about trans fats and other shit they digest every day.

Not sure how is that related to this particular job but for whatever reason everyone who has ever made a comment about my food was a software engineer :D

Why DO you drink olive oil?
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: tu_holmes on February 02, 2013, 02:41:46 PM
LOL, you must work at a shit company if they have left porn sites unfiltered. Not to mention the "corporate wifi" bit, LOL. Tell your stupid asshat admins that wifis are not suitable for use in corporate networks as any stupid kid can attempt to hack them from his car in the parking lot.

Well, with LEAP and some other things, it's a lot harder...

We put all of our WiFi outside of our corporate network and in the DMZ.

If you hack it, you can have internet access, but you can't get back to any of our IP.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 02, 2013, 02:42:23 PM
LOL, you must work at a shit company if they have left porn sites unfiltered. Not to mention the "corporate wifi" bit, LOL. Tell your stupid asshat admins that wifis are not suitable for use in corporate networks as any stupid kid can attempt to hack them from his car in the parking lot.

It doesn't work in parking lot, but you are perfectly right. I don't think it grants any access to our corporate stuff, it's just internet. But just about every company I've been in (not gonna say - worked in, I didn't) including Google, Sabre etc. got some kind of passworded corporate wifi.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 02, 2013, 02:53:04 PM
Trolling aside, honest answer - would you like to be team leader if you could make just as much money just coding?

That's a rhetorical question :) Of course I wouldn't, not for the same money.

Having said that, there is no "just coding". Requirements capture, understanding the business context and the actual processes on the ground, dealing with legacy systems, dealing with overtly complicated change management systems...  sometimes coding is the easy part.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 02, 2013, 02:58:05 PM
That's a rhetorical question :) Of course I wouldn't, not for the same money.

Having said that, there is no "just coding". Requirements capture, understanding the business context and the actual processes on the ground, dealing with legacy systems, dealing with overtly complicated change management systems...  sometimes coding is the easy part.


Dealing with legacy code is by far worst part. Especially when the guy who wrote the code doesn't work there anymore and got kicked out :D Not very smart move to fire the guy and then expect him to explain code to everyone in 3 months he's got left. On the other hand, veterans are reluctant to give such information away because it would make them useless... It's neverending story :D

I'm too young to deal with business context and things like that, my tasks revolve around just coding. I am aware about that part tho, but I still think dealing with people is biggest pain in the ass. Both those under and over you in hierarchy.

Team leaders are like fathers in huge family. It's hard to be both good, caring father and avoid spoiling your kids. I've seen all kinds of father - from despotic, "cool and laid back" to "I don't give a fuck, just do whatever and leave me alone".
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 02, 2013, 03:11:23 PM
Dealing with legacy code is by far worst part. Especially when the guy who wrote the code doesn't work there anymore and got kicked out :D Not very smart move to fire the guy and then expect him to explain code to everyone in 3 months he's got left. On the other hand, veterans are reluctant to give such information away because it would make them useless... It's neverending story :D

I'm too young to deal with business context and things like that, my tasks revolve around just coding. I am aware about that part tho, but I still think dealing with people is biggest pain in the ass. Both those under and over you in hierarchy.

Team leaders are like fathers in huge family. It's hard to be both good, caring father and avoid spoiling your kids. I've seen all kinds of father - from despotic, "cool and laid back" to "I don't give a fuck, just do whatever and leave me alone".

By legacy code I mean a system written in a language no longer supported. Like COBOL. Companies can rarely afford to re-write their apps. Especially if they have been in use for decades and have become functionally rich. Imagine if you have to peripherally deal with the side effects of such a system - which is essentially a black-box to you, since you have no insight to its inner workings and the people who developed it left a long time ago. And they didn't leave documentation behind ;D
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: muscularny on February 02, 2013, 03:12:53 PM
this went from being a good thread to a my cock is bigger then your thread, we know you are all the smartest and best and know it all, please talk on the topic of jobs in this sector, stop trying to prove anything here you sound pathetic
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Hulkotron on February 02, 2013, 03:14:29 PM
Why DO you drink olive oil?

Widens the anabolic window.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 02, 2013, 03:16:44 PM
The money in software is in doing it for the financial services industry.

High pressure environment though.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 02, 2013, 03:29:44 PM
By legacy code I mean a system written in a language no longer supported. Like COBOL. Companies can rarely afford to re-write their apps. Especially if they have been in use for decades and have become functionally rich. Imagine if you have to peripherally deal with the side effects of such a system - which is essentially a black-box to you, since you have no insight to its inner workings and the people who developed it left a long time ago. And they didn't leave documentation behind ;D

That's exactly the shit I'm dealing with, well, everyone is in that company. I think it's not working out well and we're doomed to be honest.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 02, 2013, 03:31:58 PM
this went from being a good thread to a my cock is bigger then your thread, we know you are all the smartest and best and know it all, please talk on the topic of jobs in this sector, stop trying to prove anything here you sound pathetic

Pretty standard GB response. My bad for letting my mask slip a bit. What I MEANT to respond to the initial post was:

"I saw a bunch of books and magazines about programming languages when I was perusing bodybuilding mags at the bookstore. I didn't get one, but when I went back to my room in my mom's basement I vaguely remembered some of them when I was reading about the anabolic window"

Better?
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: muscularny on February 02, 2013, 03:32:35 PM
The money in software is doing it for the financial services industry.

High pressure environment though.

so what happened you know a guy who works there that makes money?>

a good general developer can make a ton of money working from home
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: outby43 on February 02, 2013, 04:52:44 PM
Pretty standard GB response. My bad for letting my mask slip a bit. What I MEANT to respond to the initial post was:

"I saw a bunch of books and magazines about programming languages when I was perusing bodybuilding mags at the bookstore. I didn't get one, but when I went back to my room in my mom's basement I vaguely remembered some of them when I was reading about the anabolic window"

Better?

 ;D
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: a_ahmed on February 02, 2013, 05:03:10 PM
VBS, VB.net, VBA here. Also used to do C++ years ago but no more. I am not a programmer, but I just learned the languages and used to code some games for fun. Now a days I use my knowledge for scripting automation for a variety of things at work.

Used to also do html but that was back in the day.. now a days everything is dynamic with ASP, PHP, etc... etc... Just recently designing a site (fun project on the side) first time staring at PHP.

Got a bit dirty with powershell as well, I must as VBS is ever so legacy now although still does the job just fine in a corporate IT environment.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: daddy8ball on February 02, 2013, 05:15:09 PM

a good general developer can make a ton of money working from home

I work from home. I make six figures, but I don't make 300K. I'd like to. What do you suggest?
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: cephissus on February 02, 2013, 05:29:16 PM
Hi bro, how's the dissertation coming along?

oh, the project i was working on wasn't really a dissertation or anything, just a big end-of-quarter assignment.

right now i'm doing an internship, working on computer vision stuff.  mostly trying to extract veins from high-res pictures of eyeballs, lol.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: daddy8ball on February 02, 2013, 06:04:58 PM
I am digging the fact that if I have a software engineering question..or something I want to white board...Getbiggers on tap to hash it out. (Or make mom jokes..whichever comes first...)

Just got tapped for lead in 2+ year project...I'm going to have a lot of "best practices" engineering questions.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: _aj_ on February 02, 2013, 06:34:15 PM
I am digging the fact that if I have a software engineering question..or something I want to white board...Getbiggers on tap to hash it out. (Or make mom jokes..whichever comes first...)

Just got tapped for lead in 2+ year project...I'm going to have a lot of "best practices" engineering questions.

Sure, glad to help...oops, I mean, "What is your exact location?"
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: lovemonkey on February 03, 2013, 01:40:23 AM
This thread has become a bit too nerdy for my taste. Here, have this
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: King Shizzo on February 03, 2013, 03:54:10 AM
Software engineer, won't enclose details about my "career" coz it will bring too unwanted attention :D

Software engineers are most boring people on the planet, 90% of them are either married or 30 yo virgins. Once we obtained device that belongs to company I used to work in from a guy from our team... He forgot to close browser. Fucker was watching porntube on corporate device, on corporate wifi, at work. Guy wears shirts in pants, uses ton of lube on his hair and says hello directly to everyone in company every friggin time he comes there. Creepy as fuck.

But most fucked up part is working with bunch of guys who are unable to talk about anything except from software, new hardware and getting drunk, maybe their kids if they're married.

Ok, I stand corrected, MOST HORRIBLE PART about them being nerds is that they keep picking on my food. I was told by my parents its rude to comment on other people's food while eating, especially when you want to make a negative comment. But every fucking day I get some comments from fuckers who want to tell me that "diet coke is unhealthy" or "you eat too much chicken", "your diet is boring", "you add ketchup to everything, that's weird", "why do you drink olive oil". Just shut the fuck up already, FFS. I swear one day I will burst out or start spamming them with detailed analysis of what they had for a dinner with pubmed articles about trans fats and other shit they digest every day.

Not sure how is that related to this particular job but for whatever reason everyone who has ever made a comment about my food was a software engineer :D
Nerd Rage Meltdown.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: a_ahmed on February 03, 2013, 11:20:32 AM
Years and years ago I had an IT director that was seriously on some hardcore tren. Always angry as shit, high bp, etc... nah I never asked him about it, but I could tell lmao, was well built, but serious rage issues hahaha.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 03, 2013, 01:08:21 PM
That's exactly the shit I'm dealing with, well, everyone is in that company. I think it's not working out well and we're doomed to be honest.

Well, hang in there. It may look like being up shit creek without a paddle, but you are gaining valuable experience. It will be invaluable when you decide to make a move.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: pedro01 on February 03, 2013, 05:02:46 PM
I started coding when I was 13, that was 29 years ago.  Let me swing my dick in the ring too.

The industry has changed massively in that time. I don't really see much opportunity for coders in North America/Europe any more.

Russian/Indian programmers are cheap and just as good as their western counterparts. Unless you have a real niche, it's just going to be a very average paid job.

Back in 1996 I was contracting in the US and the daily rate was $900. I pay programmers in Thailand between $1,500 -> $2,500 per month. Productivity isn't as good in some respects but better in others.

The last web site I had built cost $150 for the design and $800 to build the site - all by a guy in Russia.

It's a different game now, programmers are plentiful for all the mainstream stuff. I know a PLC programmer that works in the steel industry that still makes good money but this is the exception, not the rule.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 03, 2013, 05:05:38 PM
Well, hang in there. It may look like being up shit creek without a paddle, but you are gaining valuable experience. It will be invaluable when you decide to make a move.

No, I'm definately moving.

 - multiplication of what I earn right now
 - way better perspectives
 - back-end which I love instead of front-end (yay)
 - different country (change of sorroundings, it will do me good)

I'm 23, plenty of time to find my place.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 04, 2013, 10:57:05 AM
No, I'm definately moving.

 - multiplication of what I earn right now
 - way better perspectives
 - back-end which I love instead of front-end (yay)
 - different country (change of sorroundings, it will do me good)

I'm 23, plenty of time to find my place.

UK?
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 06, 2013, 04:11:44 PM
UK?

USA, too many Poles in UK. They hate us and honestly they have legit reason.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: syntaxmachine on February 06, 2013, 04:35:40 PM
USA, too many Poles in UK. They hate us and honestly they have legit reason.

Just be sure to think in terms of total compensation (value of retirement accounts, healthcare, etc.) and the cost of living for the area, not just salary. Good luck!
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 07, 2013, 02:12:14 AM
Just be sure to think in terms of total compensation (value of retirement accounts, healthcare, etc.) and the cost of living for the area, not just salary. Good luck!

Thanks, I get very well compensated. Visa stuff is a bitch tho. For some legal reasons I will have to get back to Poland for nearly a fucking year due to that after my trial... Unless woman from embassy was right and recruiters and my friends were not.

Maybe someone from here knows, since it's american board - is there period of time during the year that I can get visa, so that if say I want to get back to work in december and I decided in october then I cannot do that because limit of visas they can give to poles for a year was reached few months ago and I have to wait until next spring when they reset the limit?
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: dj181 on February 07, 2013, 02:24:17 AM
Software engineer, won't enclose details about my "career" coz it will bring too unwanted attention :D

Software engineers are most boring people on the planet, 90% of them are either married or 30 yo virgins. Once we obtained device that belongs to company I used to work in from a guy from our team... He forgot to close browser. Fucker was watching porntube on corporate device, on corporate wifi, at work. Guy wears shirts in pants, uses ton of lube on his hair and says hello directly to everyone in company every friggin time he comes there. Creepy as fuck.

But most fucked up part is working with bunch of guys who are unable to talk about anything except from software, new hardware and getting drunk, maybe their kids if they're married.

Ok, I stand corrected, MOST HORRIBLE PART about them being nerds is that they keep picking on my food. I was told by my parents its rude to comment on other people's food while eating, especially when you want to make a negative comment. But every fucking day I get some comments from fuckers who want to tell me that "diet coke is unhealthy" or "you eat too much chicken", "your diet is boring", "you add ketchup to everything, that's weird", "why do you drink olive oil". Just shut the fuck up already, FFS. I swear one day I will burst out or start spamming them with detailed analysis of what they had for a dinner with pubmed articles about trans fats and other shit they digest every day.

Not sure how is that related to this particular job but for whatever reason everyone who has ever made a comment about my food was a software engineer :D

you're a pole in poland right? i'm an american't in poland and you poles are nosey as fuck and always concerned about others and giving them unwanted opinions which is annoying as fuck :D

where the fuck does this come from? is it from communist mistrust of everyone, everything?

on a side note, there are some pretty cool poles, and not all of them are noseyass busybodies
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 07, 2013, 03:13:41 AM
you're a pole in poland right? i'm an american't in poland and you poles are nosey as fuck and always concerned about others and giving them unwanted opinions which is annoying as fuck :D

where the fuck does this come from? is it from communist mistrust of everyone, everything?

on a side note, there are some pretty cool poles, and not all of them are noseyass busybodies

I have no idea man. I was brought up different way. I come from smaller city where me and my parents are well known. It's pretty common that when i'm shopping in local store someone comments my basket loud in front of me, "you buy so much fruits, you are rich" or something like that. I have no idea where this is comming from tbfh. I must admit that it makes us look pretty bad and pretty third fucking world ;d

BTW winner of the month is a guy who made a comment about my conversations with other guys which he overheard... He does know them but he's their friend and I've never talked to him in my life ;d Listening to other people's conversations is one thing but this guy took it to another level when he started attacking me based on what he overheard, epic.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: dj181 on February 07, 2013, 03:21:16 AM
I have no idea man. I was brought up different way. I come from smaller city where me and my parents are well known. It's pretty common that when i'm shopping in local store someone comments my basket loud in front of me, "you buy so much fruits, you are rich" or something like that. I have no idea where this is comming from tbfh. I must admit that it makes us look pretty bad and pretty third fucking world ;d

don't worry man, i met some pretty good poles, and not all are like this

there's good and bad peeps everywhere

and another thing, my friends find it pretty funny that i sometimes kinda dig the plastic fantastic girls here :P

but i usually end up with a good sweet girl, since i'm just a good and sweet guy ;D

i have a feeling that you'll be disappointed by the usa once you get there, but that's just my opinion, and maybe you'll like it there
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: deceiver on February 07, 2013, 03:23:04 AM
No one is perfect but the key is to be able to accept bad sides of someone. Honestly I'm not able to accept this, among many other things. But of course money is main factor.

Bottom line - I know many guys who worked in Poland for a while, moved to USA to large companies... Everyone says it's different world. The only problem is language barrier. If someone who can code stays here it's either fear, gf or language barrier.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: a_ahmed on February 07, 2013, 01:34:13 PM
So last two weeks banging away pulling hair learning PHP, HTML (well since the last time I used it was when frames were 'cool') and CSS styling. All for a good cause of course.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Roger Bacon on February 07, 2013, 01:57:17 PM
This thread has become a bit too nerdy for my taste. Here, have this

You're a good man!  8)
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: King Shizzo on February 07, 2013, 03:21:52 PM
Suck my pole!
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: pedro01 on February 07, 2013, 04:36:54 PM
So last two weeks banging away pulling hair learning PHP, HTML (well since the last time I used it was when frames were 'cool') and CSS styling. All for a good cause of course.

Welcome to 2003....  ::)
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 08, 2013, 01:28:29 PM
I started coding when I was 13, that was 29 years ago.  Let me swing my dick in the ring too.

The industry has changed massively in that time. I don't really see much opportunity for coders in North America/Europe any more.

Russian/Indian programmers are cheap and just as good as their western counterparts. Unless you have a real niche, it's just going to be a very average paid job.

Back in 1996 I was contracting in the US and the daily rate was $900. I pay programmers in Thailand between $1,500 -> $2,500 per month. Productivity isn't as good in some respects but better in others.

The last web site I had built cost $150 for the design and $800 to build the site - all by a guy in Russia.

It's a different game now, programmers are plentiful for all the mainstream stuff. I know a PLC programmer that works in the steel industry that still makes good money but this is the exception, not the rule.

I agree with a lot of your points. Globalisation has definitely made developer salaries go down. However, it is still true that developer salaries are well above average.

I have to take some exception with your points about foreign programmers being just as good as Western... my experience so far indicates the exact opposite...
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: pedro01 on February 09, 2013, 12:32:13 AM
I agree with a lot of your points. Globalisation has definitely made developer salaries go down. However, it is still true that developer salaries are well above average.

I have to take some exception with your points about foreign programmers being just as good as Western... my experience so far indicates the exact opposite...

Actually, I didn't say they were just as good. I said productivity is worse in some ways but better in others.

In the UK and to some extents in the US, people tend to be out of the door at 5:30pm and that's fine. Here in certain Asian countries, they may not be as highly skilled but there's guys/gals still in the office on a regular basis at 9pm. To a large degree it's a cultural thing but also because a lot of young people stay with their parents till marriage, so why go home?

You pay a third/a quarter of the salary, you get a developer that might not be as good as the best UK/US developer but you get someone that is very committed to the job. The other issue that Europe suffers from that US doesn't is the ridiculous fucking holidays. I worked in Netherlands & Germany and those fuckers are hardly ever there.

This of course presumes that you create the sort of working environment that motivates them.

I know some fantastic Indian programmers but I know a lot of crappy ones and the guys in India (I worked with expat Indians in US as well as those in India) are real job hoppers and salaries have risen to the point where the cost differential is not so great now.

In terms of raw skills, coding isn't really that hard a job. A lot of it is fairly mundane work that does not require that huge intelligence. On a team of say 100 people, you need perhaps 3 or 4 shining stars coding wise and the rest of your coders can be average. In fact, this is the preferred state of affairs. You don't want the grunts getting itchy feet and moving else where. Their value is in knowledge of your processes and IP.

Bottom line is that you don't need the programmers to all be great. You just need a few good ones, decent process and a nice working environment. Then you have a team that can churn out a lot of good code whilst you keep staff turnover low.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: Raymondo on February 09, 2013, 04:24:49 PM
Russian/Indian programmers are cheap and just as good as their western counterparts. Unless you have a real niche, it's just going to be a very average paid job.

Actually, I didn't say they were just as good. I said productivity is worse in some ways but better in others.


In the UK and to some extents in the US, people tend to be out of the door at 5:30pm and that's fine. Here in certain Asian countries, they may not be as highly skilled but there's guys/gals still in the office on a regular basis at 9pm. To a large degree it's a cultural thing but also because a lot of young people stay with their parents till marriage, so why go home?

You pay a third/a quarter of the salary, you get a developer that might not be as good as the best UK/US developer but you get someone that is very committed to the job. The other issue that Europe suffers from that US doesn't is the ridiculous fucking holidays. I worked in Netherlands & Germany and those fuckers are hardly ever there.

This of course presumes that you create the sort of working environment that motivates them.

I know some fantastic Indian programmers but I know a lot of crappy ones and the guys in India (I worked with expat Indians in US as well as those in India) are real job hoppers and salaries have risen to the point where the cost differential is not so great now.

In terms of raw skills, coding isn't really that hard a job. A lot of it is fairly mundane work that does not require that huge intelligence. On a team of say 100 people, you need perhaps 3 or 4 shining stars coding wise and the rest of your coders can be average. In fact, this is the preferred state of affairs. You don't want the grunts getting itchy feet and moving else where. Their value is in knowledge of your processes and IP.

Bottom line is that you don't need the programmers to all be great. You just need a few good ones, decent process and a nice working environment. Then you have a team that can churn out a lot of good code whilst you keep staff turnover low.

You're changing the goal posts, pal. If you think cheap offshore developers are better value for money because they spend ten hours a day doing something that I can do in half an hour, well, you've got another thing coming. Anyone can build a website and be a coder, millions of Indian code monkeys are proof of this. Not anyone can be a developer- that is to say, understand complex business processes,  quickly produce appropriate solutions that fit existing legacy frameworks and do things like automated testing. Or try having an Indian work on a CRM app, the cultural gap will overwhelm them (I'm seeing this first hand every day).

Have a look around the internet- Indians have a terrible reputation. Poor abstract thinking, need their hands held, take many breaks throughout the day, need someone constantly on top of their head to make sure they're not slacking off, not to mention: they write SHIT code. Code that works is not huge task indeed (let's assume for the sake of the argument that half of foreign coders can do it), but can everyone write re-usable, maintanenable, extensible, well-documented, unit-tested code? You'll find the degree of difficulty increasing by an order of magnitude with each of the previous requirements. And they are mandatory for every developer, not just super-stars. Try explaining approaches like TDD or BDD to a foreigner, they look at you like you're from Mars.

Again, I'm not parrotting the internet on this, I'm seeing it first hand every day and soon I may have to be involved in some unpleasant decisions.

Do you know what Brian Fargo said? Something to the effect that no person in the chair is better than the wrong person. Because if there's noone there, at least you know the job isn't getting done. The implication being that with the wrong person, you don't know what will happen.
Title: Re: Software Engineer -- any Getbigger write code for a living?
Post by: pedro01 on February 09, 2013, 09:02:33 PM
You're changing the goal posts, pal. If you think cheap offshore developers are better value for money because they spend ten hours a day doing something that I can do in half an hour, well, you've got another thing coming. Anyone can build a website and be a coder, millions of Indian code monkeys are proof of this. Not anyone can be a developer- that is to say, understand complex business processes,  quickly produce appropriate solutions that fit existing legacy frameworks and do things like automated testing. Or try having an Indian work on a CRM app, the cultural gap will overwhelm them (I'm seeing this first hand every day).

Fortunately - this isn't the case. In terms of hourly productivity, I'd put them at 75-90% of Western developers. In terms of commitment to a project, I'd put them at 200%.

I would guess you have only worked for very small organizations. Programmers simply do not do all the things you mention above in anything but the smallest of organisations. We have separate people writing business level specs, doing design, coding and unit test, system testing, packaging & releasing. Implementation and supports staff are also different. You can't maintain millions of lines of code and have programmers making the tea, cleaning the windows, fixing the pool cars and all the other stuff you mentioned. Programming is only 20-30% of the total system development effort.

What you discuss, where a developer is 'jack of all trades' falls apart as an organization grows and it also breaks down when you have fairly average staff turnover.

In my experience, which includes running offshore development centers in Asia for the past 15 years, the glue that holds all this together is good management & process.

Have a look around the internet- Indians have a terrible reputation. Poor abstract thinking, need their hands held, take many breaks throughout the day, need someone constantly on top of their head to make sure they're not slacking off, not to mention: they write SHIT code. Code that works is not huge task indeed (let's assume for the sake of the argument that half of foreign coders can do it), but can everyone write re-usable, maintanenable, extensible, well-documented, unit-tested code? You'll find the degree of difficulty increasing by an order of magnitude with each of the previous requirements. And they are mandatory for every developer, not just super-stars. Try explaining approaches like TDD or BDD to a foreigner, they look at you like you're from Mars.

Well - I could look this up on teh interweb or I could just use my own experience. I live in Asia, spent a year in Japan as a consultant, helping the staff at a Japanese MNC to implement processes that enabled them to implement 4000 functional changes to a major commercial system and start rolling it out in their factories. The bulk of the developers we used were from Manila but we also had a team in India and of course we had a lot of Japanese developers too. After that - back in '97, I moved to Thailand and built a team there that maintains and enhances a number of modules of a major commercial system. I'm not talking about customization - I am talking about product development of entire modules of a massive product. That includes taking instruction from product marketing and then being responsible till it goes into standard product. Soup to nuts.

On top of that - a good portion of the R&D is now done there as well as the maintenance of the programming language the product is written in. This is complex stuff but then anything is complex until you break it down into manageable chunks and that is the art of system development and that is why on a large team you only need a few 'hero programmers'. You need grunts mostly.

Again, I'm not parrotting the internet on this, I'm seeing it first hand every day and soon I may have to be involved in some unpleasant decisions.

Do you know what Brian Fargo said? Something to the effect that no person in the chair is better than the wrong person. Because if there's no-one there, at least you know the job isn't getting done. The implication being that with the wrong person, you don't know what will happen.

One thing I will agree with you on is the communication skills needed to ensure a US/European team can work with an Asian one. This is why the team I built was so successful, I was there day in day out managing the communications and ensuring there wasn't any misunderstanding. That particular organization can handle itself in that respect because we got locals in key roles that caught on pretty fast.

Fact is - if a US company sends work to India and thinks it's going to come back perfect, they will get caught out. They will be 100% responsible for 50% of the communication issues.