Pull up question

[Dredlock Rasta]

Usually I start my back workout with three sets of pullups 6-8 reps. Pull ups are very hard for me. I feel it more in the biceps and forearms than my back. Recently I have started with machine pull ups, the ones where you can add weight to help you, and I have felt that these work my back better than regular pull ups. I feel it less in my biceps and forearms.

My question is should I stick to machine pullups or regular bodyweight pullups?

[pumpster]

Go with exercises that are effective for the areas you want, as you've done. Forget the by-the-book stuff some adhere to that tell you that certain exercises are essential, even when ineffective.

Before giving up on an ineffective exercise, first try using different form. Enlisting more biceps is typical of using the wrong form on pullups: the better way involves pulling with the elbows, with less upper arm flexion, and will enlist the lats more.

Then try variations involving different grips, different grip widths including close-grip triangle bar and medium grip, as well as different angles-behind the head instead of in front, etc. If you can find a good version you can keep doing the exercise, either alternated with the other one or supersets using both.

[gtbro1]

 Do the real thing in my opinion...When I first started I could only do 3. That was very embarassing but oh well.I would do 3,rest/stretch for 2 minutes,do 3 more and so on until I could not do any at all.Each week I would try and do at least 1 more total rep than the week before.Eventually I was able to do 10 -12 reps on the first set and started to add weight to a belt.For me it helps to use a thumbless grip.This helps to imagine your hands only as hooks,to lessen the involvement of the forearms and biceps.

[dontknowit]

Go with exercises that are effective for the areas you want, as you've done. Forget the by-the-book stuff some adhere to that tell you that certain exercises are essential, even when ineffective...

This advice is pity,

if he has troubles doing pullups, and he feels his biceps very much,
it's clearly that his biceps and forearms are not developed to a certain degree. He has to keep trying and mustn't give up.

The difference between an machine pull-up and regular pull-up is that a regular pull-up is compoundexercise. It does not only train the back, but also biceps and shoulders.

It's true that in the first stage the machine pull-up will train the back more actively, but in the end he will come back and ask how to train his arms cause they're so small compared to the rest of his body.

[pumpster]

if he has troubles doing pullups, and he feels his biceps very much,
it's clearly that his biceps and forearms are not developed to a certain degree. He has to keep trying and mustn't give up.

Dumb advice that makes assumptions ("it is clear"..) while it's in fact not clear at all.

You evidentally took a superficial look at my comments, which articulated what you're trying to say-"dontknowit" living up to the name.

They are *both* compound exercises you fool; the main difference is that one is bodyweight-assisted, which can change the dynamics of the exercise.

As far as the arms not being strong enough, he's doing enough reps to conclude that this isn't the issue-how long have you been training? If he was doing 2-3 reps or less i'd agree with your misguided theory.

[Overload]

Go with exercises that are effective for the areas you want, as you've done. Forget the by-the-book stuff some adhere to that tell you that certain exercises are essential, even when ineffective.

Before giving up on an ineffective exercise, first try using different form. Enlisting more biceps is typical of using the wrong form on pullups: the better way involves pulling with the elbows, with less upper arm flexion, and will enlist the lats more.

Then try variations involving different grips, different grip widths including close-grip triangle bar and medium and  different angles-behind the head instead of in front, etc. If you can find a good version you can keep doing the exercise, either alternated with the other one or supersets using both.

Good advice...

i agree...

[pumpster]

Good advice...

i agree...

Thanks, likewise with your posts.

[Sculpter]

I've always been a big believer in the mind-muscle connection.Saying that,if you can concentrate more on machine pull ups & feel them more in the targeted muscle area than regular pull ups then by all means keep doing them.However, I wouldn't throw the regular version out the window either.It's one of them exercises where continued practice doing them will only help you get better at them.Maybe stay w/the machine version until you can do a 12 rep set w/your bodyweight or over & then go back to the reg. version & see if anything has changed in the performance of it.

[KSA]

I use straps when i do pull ups.

[Overload]

Nice...

that is how i started...i did pulldowns until i was strong enough to get 15 chins with a good mind muscle squeeze.

i prefer weighted chins to this day...superset with pullovers for a great lat workout.

i refuse to use straps...my grip strength and forearms have inproved greatly without them.

[pumpster]

Weighted chins are great, and many think they're the best for width; for getting deep into the fibers i can't put them ahead of heavy pulldowns with the right attachment on a good leverage machine. Equally great, slightly different effect.

[lilwoday09smb]

when you guys say chins you mean palms facing in correct?

[Dredlock Rasta]

when you guys say chins you mean palms facing in correct?

Yeah wide grip chins. They are a mutherfucker.

[Dredlock Rasta]

Go with exercises that are effective for the areas you want, as you've done. Forget the by-the-book stuff some adhere to that tell you that certain exercises are essential, even when ineffective.

Before giving up on an ineffective exercise, first try using different form. Enlisting more biceps is typical of using the wrong form on pullups: the better way involves pulling with the elbows, with less upper arm flexion, and will enlist the lats more.

Then try variations involving different grips, different grip widths including close-grip triangle bar and medium grip, as well as different angles-behind the head instead of in front, etc. If you can find a good version you can keep doing the exercise, either alternated with the other one or supersets using both.

When I do chins I do wide grip chins. What if I use a medium grip, just outside shoulder width? You know how the chin bar angles down at the ends leaving enough space for your hands on the angled down part? What if I put my hands just before the part were the bar angles down on the straight part? Are those just as effective?

[pumpster]

When I do chins I do wide grip chins. What if I use a medium grip, just outside shoulder width?

I meant shoulder width, closer in than you're doing. Also try using a close-grip by hanging a triangle cable attachment used for rowing over the bar. The grip you're referring to should be tried too, compare the effect.

Try using straps if you're not; can help in changing the pulling motion a little more towards lats pulling instead of arms, using the hands only as hooks, as is often said. That means starting the ROM with elbows slightly bent and pulling mainly with the upper arms, with minimum arm flexion.

when you guys say chins you mean palms facing in correct?

For me it's palms facing-in or facing away-referred to as pulldups technically but they're close enough. The palms facing in grip hits the bis alot more as happens with rows, though some claim they're more effective.

[haider]

Nice...

that is how i started...i did pulldowns until i was strong enough to get 15 chins with a good mind muscle squeeze.

i prefer weighted chins to this day...superset with pullovers for a great lat workout.

i refuse to use straps...my grip strength and forearms have inproved greatly without them.

Amen brother! 

[Overload]

when you guys say chins you mean palms facing in correct?

i change grip position every 3 weeks...

[Arnold jr]

I agree with pumpster and overload.

The main problem I see with guys who struggle with pull-ups or chins is that they are not contracitng their back muscles...the reason their arms are taking the brunt of the work is because they are forcing their arms to do the work and not their back. When doing chins your arms should basically be nothing more then hooks. Yes, some indirect work will be put on your bi's and forearms, but if you contract the back muscles correctly then they should pull you right up there.

[Sculpter]

To really get the "hook" feeling to doing your pull ups take your thumbs out of the equation.Do them w/a thumbless grip which will also take some of your biceps out of the movement also.

[pumpster]

Do them w/a thumbless grip which will also take some of your biceps out of the movement also.

Good point-thumbs out. Also, keep the arms slightly bent at the beginning of the ROM, then move the arms without flexing much-rotate from the shoulders instead.

[littlebigswole]

i had the same problem with pullups but then i looked at my form, i do pullups like in the arnold encyclopedia 50 at the beginning as a good warm up and a good pump, when you do the pull up try to keep you elbows as parallel to your body as possible alot of times youll sway them a little forward for a couple more reps and it makes a dramatic difference what muscles it pinpoints, also try to keep your body locked, and squeeze at the top like a rear double bicep pose and hold i guarantuee you youll feel like you can fly away afterwards