Author Topic: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already  (Read 7624 times)

240 is Back

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #100 on: November 30, 2006, 06:52:19 AM »
nothing to do with a plane - we're talking fire and a building.  When the collapse started, the top 20 floors were falling at a trajectory  which changed in midair.  The support under it was constant, acted upon only by the force from the falling 20 stories.  The fact that the building suddenly gave out at the same rate as the air resistance gave out is astounding.

natural al

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #101 on: November 30, 2006, 06:57:46 AM »
nothing to do with a plane - we're talking fire and a building.  When the collapse started, the top 20 floors were falling at a trajectory  which changed in midair.  The support under it was constant, acted upon only by the force from the falling 20 stories.  The fact that the building suddenly gave out at the same rate as the air resistance gave out is astounding.

I don't remember everything that went down and I have not watched the videos in along time...what started the fire? 
nasser=piece of shit

a_joker10

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #102 on: November 30, 2006, 07:03:27 AM »
240 - You are not up to date on how buildings collapse, but I will forgive you since you are not a structural engineer.

Your explanation is how building would collapse if was pancaked.
As NIST has stated they buildings didn't pancake.
.
NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.

6. How could the WTC towers collapse in only 11 seconds (WTC 1) and 9 seconds (WTC 2)—speeds that approximate that of a ball dropped from similar height in a vacuum (with no air resistance)?

NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. These elapsed times were based on: (1) precise timing of the initiation of collapse from video evidence, and (2) ground motion (seismic) signals recorded at Palisades, N.Y., that also were precisely time-calibrated for wave transmission times from lower Manhattan (see NCSTAR 1-5A).

As documented in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, these collapse times show that:

“… the structure below the level of collapse initiation offered minimal resistance to the falling building mass at and above the impact zone. The potential energy released by the downward movement of the large building mass far exceeded the capacity of the intact structure below to absorb that energy through energy of deformation.

Since the stories below the level of collapse initiation provided little resistance to the tremendous energy released by the falling building mass, the building section above came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos. As the stories below sequentially failed, the falling mass increased, further increasing the demand on the floors below, which were unable to arrest the moving mass.”

In other words, the momentum (which equals mass times velocity) of the 12 to 28 stories (WTC 1 and WTC 2, respectively) falling on the supporting structure below (which was designed to support only the static weight of the floors above and not any dynamic effects due to the downward momentum) so greatly exceeded the strength capacity of the structure below that it (the structure below) was unable to stop or even to slow the falling mass. The downward momentum felt by each successive lower floor was even larger due to the increasing mass.

From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse. Neither the duration of the seismic records nor video evidence (due to obstruction of view caused by debris clouds) are reliable indicators of the total time it took for each building to collapse completely.


Z

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #103 on: November 30, 2006, 07:08:10 AM »
NIST is a govt agency, commissioned by the White house to deliver them a report which they then released.

EPA is a govt agency, commissioned by the White house to deliver them a report which they then released.



We know the White House doctored the EPA report with lies that endangered lives to meet its own agenda.

Do you really trust the NIST report, despite this?  If I cooked you breakfast and you got violently ill, would you happily accept the lunch I hand you?


240 is Back

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #104 on: November 30, 2006, 07:09:10 AM »
just curious, what did NIST say about those 47 central columns? 

a_joker10

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #105 on: November 30, 2006, 07:22:19 AM »
NIST is a govt agency, commissioned by the White house to deliver them a report which they then released.

EPA is a govt agency, commissioned by the White house to deliver them a report which they then released.



We know the White House doctored the EPA report with lies that endangered lives to meet its own agenda.

Do you really trust the NIST report, despite this?  If I cooked you breakfast and you got violently ill, would you happily accept the lunch I hand you?



Did you ever take a logic class.

Your argument is right of the holy grail. Fast forward to lynching the witch.

Also the EPA report was changed from using the word definitely to probably. I posted this stuff a while ago.

Your argument is flawed in this way.
If you cooked breakfast and I got violently, I wouldn't trust you. But I would trust the 200 people that were experts and were legally bound to protect my health and if they approved then I would eat it.

I put my faith in science. You place your faith in your observations.

Look up the folly of Aristotle and his belief on observation and not using the scientific method.
Z

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #106 on: November 30, 2006, 07:41:02 AM »
CNN made it up?
Zogby made it up?
Scrippt made it up?

I'm calling you out BB.  You accuse me of making up my numbers.  Please show me where they lied, or more reliable polling data that you have from a more reliable source.  yes, please show me a more reliable source than Zogby.  That would be splendid.


(BTW, when your only defense of your position is "Zogby is a biased lying company with bad information" you embarass yourself. HTH)

I am not doing your homework for you and I am not saying the numbers you cited are accurate or inaccurate.  What I'm saying is I don't trust you.   

And I'm calling you out on the outrageous misinformation campaign going on in our schools.  What are we going to do about the moon landing lies being crammed down the throats of American kids across the country?  What did you do when you were a teacher? 

brianX

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #107 on: November 30, 2006, 07:42:09 AM »
240 knows more about structural engineering and physics than professional scientists with Ph.D's. He's a renaissance man. ::)
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Cavalier22

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2006, 07:44:37 AM »
240, your right. Everyone involved or approached in the inside job has kept their mouth shut. So has every expert in the fields regarding the investigation.  So has every person working for the 9/11 commision, and any other government reports.


Is it probable that the 9/11 commission wasn't totally accurate. Of course. Politicians, agencies want to cover their ass as much as possible.  Does that mean that it was an absurdly complex inside job?  No, not by a long shot.
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chris_ca

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2006, 07:47:36 AM »
from Wikipedia:

Whitman was appointed by Bush as Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency. As head of the EPA, she challenged the validity of a government-commissioned report suggesting a human contribution to global warming.[citation needed]

Whitman appeared twice in New York City after the September 11 attacks to inform New Yorkers that the toxins released by the attacks posed no threat to their health.[citation needed] On September 18 the EPA released a report in which Whitman said, "Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C. that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."[1] Later, a 2003 report by the EPA's inspector general determined that such assurances were misleading, since when the statements were made the EPA "did not have sufficient data and analyses" to justify them.[2] Further, the report found that the White House had "convinced EPA to add reassuring statements and delete cautionary ones" by having the National Security Council control EPA communications after the September 11 attacks[3][4]. Although according to some sources the air was safe for Manhattan residents,[citation needed] Whitman was careful to note that the air on the actual World Trade Center site was not clean and had elevated chemical levels that would be detrimental to the workers there.[citation needed] As a result, even though they were not required to do so, the EPA itself provided thousands of respirators for workers to wear during their efforts.

On June 27, 2003, Whitman resigned from her position to spend more time with her family.

On February 2, 2006, U.S. District Court Judge Deborah A. Batts issued a ruling rejecting Whitman's request for immunity in a 2004 class action lawsuit brought by a group who claimed exposure to hazardous debris from the collapse of the World Trade Center. The judge stated that "No reasonable person would have thought that telling thousands of people that it was safe to return to lower Manhattan, while knowing that such return could pose long-term health risks and other dire consequences, was conduct sanctioned by our laws," and called Whitman's actions "conscience-shocking."[5].

kh300

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Re: Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already
« Reply #110 on: November 30, 2006, 08:45:59 AM »
NIST is a govt agency, commissioned by the White house to deliver them a report which they then released.

EPA is a govt agency, commissioned by the White house to deliver them a report which they then released.



We know the White House doctored the EPA report with lies that endangered lives to meet its own agenda.

Do you really trust the NIST report, despite this?  If I cooked you breakfast and you got violently ill, would you happily accept the lunch I hand you?


this is a perfect example of why you cant argue with ct'ers. all facts are just brushed off. its sad