The Bowflex

[mdgkmg]

is it all its cracked up to be? can you pack on pounds and pounds of muscle with it? right now i'm only trying to gain about 25-30 pounds of muscle thats my main goal. is this possible with the bowflex. by the time i can afford one i'll only need to gain another 15-20. is that possible? btw i've never used the bowflex.

[pobrecito]

hold up here.

25-30lbs is a ton of muscle.

If you are a complete newb to bodybuilding, you can gain a solid 15lbs your first year. After this is steadily declines each year. At best, you can put on 25lbs after 2 years of hard lifting, which the Bowflex really won't be able to give you. You need heavy basic exercises, namely, bench presses, squats, deadlifts, and barbell rows. A bowflex would be better for maintaining your physique.

[Cap]

This could get ugly.  Hopefully you guys do not start an all-out training board war.

[AVBG]

This could get ugly.  Hopefully you guys do not start an all-out training board war.

do you rememnber the last bowflex thread?  .. Wasn't pretty..

[Cap]

do you rememnber the last bowflex thread?  .. Wasn't pretty..

No but I am def staying out of this one.  I'' be interested to see how this plays out on both ends of the spectrum.

[pumpster]

No but I am def staying out of this one.  I'' be interested to see how this plays out on both ends of the spectrum.

Don't take it so seriously, the thread was obviously created to stir things up but bottom line it's an annonymous board and quite ok and in fact more interesting to have an opinion.  Bodybuilders in general are very conventional, get all excited about something controversial LOL

What's rarer here though, are informed opinions. 

[pumpster]

hold up here.

25-30lbs is a ton of muscle.

If you are a complete newb to bodybuilding, you can gain a solid 15lbs your first year. After this is steadily declines each year. At best, you can put on 25lbs after 2 years of hard lifting, which the Bowflex really won't be able to give you. You need heavy basic exercises, namely, bench presses, squats, deadlifts, and barbell rows. A bowflex would be better for maintaining your physique.

Except that even if one of those myths were true (debatable) that "basic heavy exercises" were key, all of those exercises can be done on a Bow, up to 400 lb. In other words, more resistance than most here can use, which this post confirms some here don't realize.

Most younger guys here for example, don't get that they equate it mainly with "fitness, toning & maintenance" because that's what it's advertised primarily for, in order to sell more units. Appeal to joe normal and you sell many more units; promote it primarily for bodybuilding and many fewer units are moved. Most here don't seem to comprehend effective mass marketing, which Bowflex and Nautilus have been great at, and the fact that their perceptions about it's use for "maintenance" have been shaped by advertising. Exactly why there's never any satisfying explanation as to why it can only be used for "fitness & toning".

Internet bodybuilding boards include (1) posts from guys who've made great gains on it and every other type of good equipment, and (2) a majority who disparage anything that hasn't been around for 40 years or more. Like i said, bodybuilders for the most part are very conventional, in the box thinkers. Don't expect open mindedness.

On most BB boards there's invariably a large group of conventional testosterone-fueled younger keyboard warriors who hate it, in part without admitting that they just don't think it's sufficiently macho. And who are generally unaware of what it can do, as shown in the above post. And a smaller group including more informed seasoned bodybuilders here like Bob Chick and gh15 who get it, are beyond the insecurities, who don't have the need to attack it at every turn.

[dontknowit]

Packing up muscle, no, unless you're a complete newbie who have never touched any weights, it could be possible to add a couple of pounds of musclemass.


For maintaining, warming-up, against soreness, getting the blood flowing, etc it could have some advantages.

[The Squadfather]

totally agree with pumpster on the Bowflex, i would pay to see anyone on here try to chest press 350-400 on the Bowflex with those rods, my bet is that 99 percent of you couldn't get them even 3 inches, also like pobrecito said 25-30 pound of muscle is a SHITLOAD that typically means 45-50 pounds TOTAL bodyweight with muscle, water, and bodyfat included, but i think it can be done in a few years time solely with the use of Bowflex and a lot of good healthy eating and rest.

[jpm101]

The BowFlex is an interesting piece of equipment. I had used one for a short period of time in my teens. (this would be the older style one; circuit '88-/89...the newer ones may be better designed, I'm guessing) You are retraining the muscles to support, move and contract at a totally different protocol. The tension is mainly kept on the muscle throughout an exercise. Once I got use to the stablization/balance of using one, it was pretty simple and easy. Just seemed though, that there was a limited amount of exercise variety and angles to be used. With me anyway, I did not get the same feel of a accomplishment I would have with going through a free weight workout. Leg work was just a bother and pain in the arse, if I remember correctly. Doing SS's, tri sets, drop sets (the way they should be done) was nearly impossible.

A BowFex is ideal for people who are concerned with gaining and keeping a average level of strength and development. Also for older people who want to stay in some form of fitness and shape. But as a all around muscle and power builder, going for anyones ultimate potential, free weights are the key. Of course a BowFlex (with other selective machine) could be used along with a heavy BB/DB workout plan, just as cable work is. These all give more options open to anyone serious about max development.

Packing on 25/30lbs of quality muscle mass is quite a feat for anyone, except for the chosen few. A BowFlex will fall short of doing that, if that is the only equipment used. Look in the direction of heavy squat, Dl's, bench's, etc. You really should focus on those compound leg, back and upper body BB/DB exercises. Proven time and again to be the real deal.

Of course a genetic gifted (even without drugs) guy could manage a 25 to 30 lbs gain with in a year, or shorter. Some of the younger athletes I've known, first starting out with serious lifting, gain good quality muscle mass, of 10 to 15 lbs, in a 90 day period. They have to do this for their sport. And this is while practicing the sport their involved with, maybe 3 to 5 times a week. Good Luck.

[Cap]

Don't take it so seriously, the thread was obviously created to stir things up but bottom line it's an annonymous board and quite ok and in fact more interesting to have an opinion.  Bodybuilders in general are very conventional, get all excited about something controversial LOL

What's rarer here though, are informed opinions. 

 

[WhiteHulk4]

I was going to post this within the earlier thread, but really this is just an honest review of my own, and doesn't really address the original question.

I've got a Bowflex Ultimate 2, which is the top of the line Bowflex.  I still try to make it to a real gym from time to time, but mostly, I put my time in on the Bowflex 4-6 times a week.

My overall grade for the Bowflex is a solid "B".  Whereas my grade for a really good gym, that doesn't get so crowded that I have to wait for anything, I give an "A+".  My grade for a really busy gym that cuts into my routine, I give a "B-".

Here are the major downfalls of the Bowflex Ultimate 2:

1. The weight goes up to 410 lbs of resistance.  Granted I couldn't squat that much with free-weights, but right now that's what I'm using on the Squat Station for my Bowflex (I think the Ultimate 2 is the only one that offers a real Squat Station).  It's plenty right now, but eventually, I'm going to want more weight - I can't get it.

2. The Leg Press is worthless (this goes for all Bowflex's - my father in-law has one of the first ones, and this goes for his too).  With 410 lbs on the Leg Press, I can probably do 100 reps - it's almost more of a cardio exercise than anything else.

3. Calf Exercises - as it comes, the only calf exercise is on the Leg Press move.  Again, 410 lbs isn't nearly enough.  However, I bought an "Extreme Calf Machine" (see it here: http://www.extremecalfmachine.com/index.html) and use it with the Squat Station, and it works awesome for standing calf raises.

4. The Lat-Pulldown doesn't give you a full range of motion.  This is part due to the fact that I'm 6'1".  The resistance of the "Power Rods" gets harder and harder, the deeper you go into a rep (the further down you pull, or the further up you push).  And on the Pulldown, the top 25% of the movement, there's basically no resistance, so you don't get any kind of stretch at the top.

5. For the Bench Press, while the movement and the weight are good, getting into position is a bitch!  You basically have to "curl" the weight up into position.  So when you're doing heavy presses, you have to be very careful getting into position, otherwise you could tear a number of things!

Some of the plus-sides are:

1. 410 lbs is PLENTY for everything other than the Squat and the Leg Press as I mentioned earlier.  For example, I do about 250 for 10 reps on the Bench, 270 for 10 on the Cable Row, etc., etc.

2. Because of the difference in resistance from the beginning of each rep to the end of each rep, it's weird that you can end up doing more reps!  For example, at the very bottom of each rep of Bench Press, where normally this would be the hardest part of the rep, it's actually easier, so you can bust through another rep or two when you thought you were done!

3. Arm exercises are AWESOME on it, no matter what you do.  I think it has something to do with the previous point, but I can insane pumps in both biceps and triceps.

4. Convenience.  Having a gym in my house, where I can do just about EVERYTHING, whenever I want, is TRULY AWESOME!  I wouldn't trade it for anything.

However, I will say, that for the money, and if you have enough space AND the space is in a ground floor room, I'd opt for a Power Cage, Olympic Barbell Set, etc. etc.  Free weights are better. 

But, my bonus room, where my gym is, is upstairs and throwing heavy weights around would shake the whole house, not to mention, could go right through the floor!

Hope this is helpful!

[pumpster]

Good points on the Bow. Here are some of my own experiences re: cons; I've previously built my own equipment, and have a home gym involving Powertec, Bowflex, Ironmaster, free weights & Stairmaster:

-Weight goes to 400 lb., which for squats could eventually be problematic. I like the other models better than the Ultimate 2, because they're simpler, smaller, lighter and allow some exercises that this doesn't. In the case of squats on some of the other machines using a straight bar, 3rd party resistance bands can be added to each side of the bar to increase to 500 lb. or beyond, or extra weight plates can be put on each side of the bar. Or can pre-exhaust using leg extension, leg press, etc., or do higher reps.

-Leg press i've had no issues with, other than needing to go beyond 400 lb. In which case same as above re: extra resistance bands, pre-exhaust, higher reps, etc. The effect of the leg press is very good.

-Calves: can also be done standing, as when doing squats. While standing, if added resistance becomes problematic, do 1-leg at a time, or add plates or bands, as on squats.

-Lat pulldowns i don't like the resistance for pulldowns; could be personal preference. Can always find other alternatives, in my case chins. Pushdowns on the Bowflex lat tower are at least as good as standard pulleys, very intense pump.

-Bench press: the best way to do it is to use the squat attachment while lying on the bench, which can be done on other models. This is not the standard way of doing benches on a Bowflex, and creates a typical straight up-down ROM like a barbell, with no issues on getting the resistance into position.

-As far as free weights and a bench, unless you get something like an Ironmaster with a lot of options, it's not in the same league as a Bowflex or Powertec WB-LS re: options and ability to safely train to failure with gym type equipment.

-The Bowflex uses progressive resistance; it gets harder later in the ROM. Just different, no better or worse than the imperfect resistance curves found on many free weight movements.

General impressions:

-In terms of space and portibility, a power cage and barbells isn't comparable IMO - takes up way more room, is less flexible, much harder to move and has less options IMO.

-The only other serious substitutes IMO in terms of options, small size, safety and effectiveness is the Powertec WB-LS, which i've also owned, and an Ironmaster bench with options. The Powertec is excellent, and probably inspired by the success of the Bowflex. About the same size as a Bowflex, using plate-loaded resistance.

The addition of adjustable dumbbells to any of these further increases the options, to the point that while a gym may offer still more options, there's quite enough here to have great workouts at home.