Training Methods

[ngm21084]

Hey bros I was just reading an article and it talks about what they called "flushing training" by that they mean say your split that day is bi's and tri's it talks about doing all of one part before starting the other.  Now myself personally I go back and forth one set with bi's and one set with tri's.  What do you guys think?  The article says that the "flushing" training gives your muscle full oppurtunity to receive maximum amount of nutrients.  Now I am no expert and I don't claim to know much so I figured you guys could give me some advice.  Does this "flushing" have any validity to it, and if so could you please explain.

[Emmortal]

Instinctualy, I've always done one body part to completion before moving on to the next one in my split.  I don't have any science to back this up but it does make more sense to me because lets say I'm doing chest and shoulders, if I alternate back and forth then I'm not allowing the full amount of blood to be pushed into each muscle group.

It makes sense, but again, I've just always done that because it just "felt right" to work each group to completion before moving on to the next.

[pumpster]

personally I go back and forth one set with bi's and one set with tri's.  What do you guys think?  The article says that the "flushing" training gives your muscle full oppurtunity to receive maximum amount of nutrients.  Now I am no expert and I don't claim to know much so I figured you guys could give me some advice.  Does this "flushing" have any validity to it, and if so could you please explain.

You're doing supersets, alternating between opposing muscles. Very popular with some guys, Arnold and Sergio for example did that with chest and back. Guys who like this approach say they like it because it flushes blood into the entire area-chest/back, or bis/tris, etc. so it's psychologically appealing for some based on this and on the fact that it may save a little time.

The standard routine is what he's doing-all triceps sets done in standard set fashion, then go to biceps.

It doesn't matter which one, try each for a while and see which appeals and is more effective for you..

[ngm21084]

hey bros thanks for your replys i think i am going to try and do just one at a time...i just thought that doing that would make me more tired therefore not be able to lift as well but maybe the increased fatigue and intensity will throw a little bit of muscle shock in my body and spark quicker growth or something....

[Swedish Viking]

if you're looking for maximum development though, in all liklihood, doing one to completetion and then starting the next is probably going to be more effective.  It's true, the old guys often talked about doing supersets but more so nearer competition to cut up. 

[ngm21084]

another question i had is about pyramiding your wieght do you go up down or stay....i have been lately going down with my first sets being heaviest then working down from there...but i was reading some stuff about just staying at the same wieght and maximizing on the negative reps squeezing at the top and working on the negative..what do you guys think??

[pumpster]

another question i had is about pyramiding your wieght do you go up down or stay....i have been lately going down with my first sets being heaviest then working down from there...but i was reading some stuff about just staying at the same wieght and maximizing on the negative reps squeezing at the top and working on the negative..what do you guys think??

Currently you're using a descending pyramid, which is less popular amongst those who do pyramids; usually they build up intead. I find what you're doing better between the two. Or try keeping the weight the same and increasing the intensity on the muscles by other means such as doing negatives, using cheats at the end, using rest-pause reps, increasing the number of reps or shortening the rests between sets.

Basically give each method a try and just like supersets, decide which appeals and inspires you more. If they all have equal value (unlikely), you can always rotate between them over a period of time.

[ngm21084]

well i have tried both ascending and what im doing now descending which i like better but im thinking to try to stay at the same wieght and focus on more negative...but not right now...thanks for the input bros..

[jpm101]

I believe the terms "Flushing" and "Pumping" are interchangeable. As far as pure BB'ing goes, some studies have suggested that faster muscle recovery and growth is gains through exercising opposite muscle groups, as doing SS's, in a single workout. Usually thought of as for the tricep/bicep but SS's seem to work just as well with the larger muscle groups. The compound exercises and the  push/pull effect when doing BB rows SS'ed with  bench's for example work well. Legs SS'ed with leg biceps, ab's SS'ed with lower back, up-right rows SS'ed with overhead presses, etc, etc, etc.

If anyone wants a true 'Flushing" effect to bring a consent flow of nutrients (amino acids,growth hormones, etc) to feed muscle cells throughout the day, than they might try the one day arm program. Also been told it works very well for stubborn calves.  Lot of Pro's and Con's on this but it could be worth an experiment. Just think of it as setting aside one whole training day to focus on gaining new arm size. The idea is to bring a light pump/flush into a area by exercising (triceps/biceps- one set only SS'ed) that area once an hour with a very light weight. Probably 7 to 9 times on one day. This style program is meant to be done only once in a while not as a regular workout. Do a search if you would want a total planned program for the all day protocol. Protein shakes and Creatine intake (all day)all day go along with the one day arm program.

I believe Pyramid training was to start with more reps (12 or more) and light weight. And than work up to the the heaviest (top of the Pyramid) weight/set (5 reps or so).  Than work back down to the original light weight and  reps (again...12 or more) used at the start. As up one side of a pyramid and down the other. This gives a great pump and affect most muscle fibers in a different way. Could take 3 or 4 sets, adding more weight each set, (or steps up the Pyramid) to get to the heaviest top weight for those 5 reps (or so). And than reduce the weight going back down (the steps) to the original reps/weight used.

Would do just one cycle of this style training. Heard it also called ladder training by a lot of athletes in their training. Good Luck.

[pjs]

Studies?  Really?

Could you posts links to the medline abstracts of those studies?  The ones that show that supersetting and flushing and pumping lead to increased recovery. 

Sounds a lot like bro science to me.  Good luck finding them.

[jpm101]

pjs

Subject SS's: NASM (National Academy of Sports Medicine) and Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength by Jim Stoppani,PhD. Found in 10 seconds with DogPile.com. 

If you want a more advance protocol than use Gopher.net which has the WAIS, Archie and Veronica search engines which, in large part, deal with science/research studies. Usually  in the form of White Papers (very dry stuff, indeed). Lots of grant studies with regards to muscle response/recovery. Spots medicine is very big now a days.

But BB'ers , being the true pioneers of muscle building ideas for the past 40 or 50 years, have harbored the notion that the original  idea of the SS did allow better recovery/hypertrophy abilities for muscle size. They did this by  trial and error with the SS concept. The more famous example of the SS training idea was the chest/back workouts of Arnold, Columbo and who ever the third workout partner was at any given time. Good Luck.

[pjs]

No studies there.  I can't find a single study using medline or google.

Reread my question.  You stated that studies show X.

I asked you to post links to the studies.  I'm assumine you have read these studies, and aren't just parroting what someone else said.

You give me NASM and an Encyclopedia of Muscle and Strength.  Both of which might say 'Supersets are good', but neither is a study.

Bro Science lives on.

[jpm101]

I get the feeling that whatever I may present to you you will not agree with it of find some fault  with it. The ball is in your court now. Go to Gopher.net . The opportunity is given to you to prove positive or negative abilities of SS's to speed up muscle recovery. That seems to be your main concern.  Unless you want this to become one of those endless and pointless threads that GetBig is so well known for.

I have gone to a few sports clinics and seminars in the past. When the subject is offered, they will suggest the advantages of the SS in muscle recovery. That is also pretty much common knowledge with most sports trainers I have come in contact with.

That's it for me on this subject, it has quickly become a mute point in my view. Good Luck.

[pjs]

As usual.  The Bro Science Internet Forum Debate Model (tm)

Someone says:  'Studies show that "X" is true.'

I say: 'Really?  I don't think any studies like that exist, and I can't seem to find any.  Since you reference them, could you show them to me?'

Someone says: 'Well, you'll have to find them for yourself, because I can't be bothered to actually know where the studies I referenced in my post are.  I'm done with this thread.'

[pjs]

Bump, just to remind everyone critical thinking is a GOOD thing, and bro science is not.

[ngm21084]

yea im with going whatever your body tells you how you feel when your doing it...thats the number one method i follow...then everything else