Cleans, noob ? - finding rack position

[Tapeworm]

I can't seem to rack the bar on the delts properly.  It's like my forearms are too long, my upper arms are too short, or my biceps are in the way (unlikely at 16"!).

My wrist needs to bend back past 90 degrees, fingers bent back painfully as well, and the bar on fingertips to get it to even make minimal contact with my shoulders.  I don't dare put any kind of weight on the bar until I get this sorted out since I can't risk a wrist injury.

If I raise my elbows straight in front of me with my forearms level, my fingertips extend past the back of my head.  Do some guys just have the wrong proportions?  Or am I screwing it up somehow?

[CAPTAIN INSANO]

I keep my forearms locked until I am in the erect position of the excercise, keeping the bar as close to my body as possible during uptravel.  After this, I throw my hips out, and complete the excercise by snatching the bar on top of my delts.

Hope this helps.

[Tapeworm]

Sorry dude, guess I wasn't clear.

No problems during the lift, just can't get the bar onto the delts without basically letting go of the bar.  I have to painfully hyperextend wrists and fingers at the top in order to get the bar to rest on the delts.  Feels like a wrist or finger injury will happen if I put any kind of weight on it.

[Overload]

Elbow and hand position is everything, watch some youtube videos to get some ideas.

Tall guys sometimes have the same problem as you, the hand spacing can help a bit.

[Tapeworm]

Ya, my old man is 6'3" and I've got his forearms.  The rest of me is 5'10" tho.   

[wes]

You probably need more shoulder flexibily or flexibility in general.
Google some Olympic lifting stretches and tape your wrists with athletic tape for safety.

[Tapeworm]

You probably need more shoulder flexibily or flexibility in general.
Google some Olympic lifting stretches and tape your wrists with athletic tape for safety.

This is true.  Thanks Wes, I'll search it up.

[wes]

No problem my friend.

[Cap]

I can't seem to rack the bar on the delts properly.  It's like my forearms are too long, my upper arms are too short, or my biceps are in the way (unlikely at 16"!).

My wrist needs to bend back past 90 degrees, fingers bent back painfully as well, and the bar on fingertips to get it to even make minimal contact with my shoulders.  I don't dare put any kind of weight on the bar until I get this sorted out since I can't risk a wrist injury.

If I raise my elbows straight in front of me with my forearms level, my fingertips extend past the back of my head.  Do some guys just have the wrong proportions?  Or am I screwing it up somehow?

A top thrower friend (D1) has wrist problems so he just does high pulls, with  3+ plates.  Dude is strong and still big.

Take Wes' advice on taping.  When I have problems that def helps.

What kind of grip do you use when doing full cleans...if you do full cleans?

[jpm101]

OK...your racking the bar on the front delts because your doing cleans or front squats?   Sorry, my fault.

Anyway, the triceps will need some stretching if you can not get the elbows high enough (even the lats may need more flexibility in some cases), which is one of the keys of holding/catching the bar on the delts and upper pecs. Try some wrist/forearms movements also. If your into martial arts, there are some outstanding versions of these finger/wrist/forearm exercises/stretches. For triceps, might try bent arm DB pullovers ,working for a light full stretch at the bottom of the lift. Also great for lat stretching. Or something like wall/strap tricep stretches.

Rather than attempting to raise the elbows straight out in front of you, have the elbows points out wider a bit. Will depend on your body structure of course as to how wide the elbows should go. Might even have to play around with the grip on the bar to find what is right for you (as OverLoad suggest).  A heavier weight, after a clean, should somewhat settle into the front delts/upper pecs quite well after awhile. Having  thicker delts helps a lot. After settled, you should be able to let go of the bar without any fear of it going anyway, if you wish. That is, as long as the elbows are kept in position.

BB'ers will front squats with crossed  hands at the middle of the chest, elbows raised. They are not really holding the barin place but allowing it to cradle into the delt/chest area. A few guy's go for the hands free method, and have the arm, bent at the elbows, extended out a bit.

I am not all that tall (6'2) and have a long hand span, so front cleans and catching the bar was a challenge at first. But the more you rep it out the more natural it becomes to clean any weight. Good Luck.

[Tapeworm]

A top thrower friend (D1) has wrist problems so he just does high pulls, with  3+ plates.  Dude is strong and still big.

Take Wes' advice on taping.  When I have problems that def helps.

What kind of grip do you use when doing full cleans...if you do full cleans?

Using an overhand grip, not a hook grip, as suggested in Rippetoe's Starting Strength while learning.  Taking the last 2 fingers off the bar gets it a bit closer tho.  Also just using an empty bar through high pulls until I feel more confident with the movement, so there's no weight pushing the bar down onto the delts.  That could be a factor.

OK...your racking the bar on the front delts because your doing cleans or front squats?   Sorry, my fault.

Anyway, the triceps will need some stretching if you can not get the elbows high enough (even the lats may need more flexibility in some cases), which is one of the keys of holding/catching the bar on the delts and upper pecs. Try some wrist/forearms movements also. If your into martial arts, there are some outstanding versions of these finger/wrist/forearm exercises/stretches. For triceps, might try bent arm DB pullovers ,working for a light full stretch at the bottom of the lift. Also great for lat stretching. Or something like wall/strap tricep stretches.

Rather than attempting to raise the elbows straight out in front of you, have the elbows points out wider a bit. Will depend on your body structure of course as to how wide the elbows should go. Might even have to play around with the grip on the bar to find what is right for you (as OverLoad suggest).  A heavier weight, after a clean, should somewhat settle into the front delts/upper pecs quite well after awhile. Having  thicker delts helps a lot. After settled, you should be able to let go of the bar without any fear of it going anyway, if you wish. That is, as long as the elbows are kept in position.

BB'ers will front squats with crossed  hands at the middle of the chest, elbows raised. They are not really holding the barin place but allowing it to cradle into the delt/chest area. A few guy's go for the hands free method, and have the arm, bent at the elbows, extended out a bit.

I am not all that tall (6'2) and have a long hand span, so front cleans and catching the bar was a challenge at first. But the more you rep it out the more natural it becomes to clean any weight. Good Luck.

Haven't done many front squats either, just a little fooling with them.  The bar just never felt 100% secure and standard squats hammer me pretty well every time.  Wouldn't call myself "thick" anywhere, lol, but the bar sits on the delts fine with crossed wrists and an underhand/thumb forefinger grip.

I can see this is a movement that will take some time to learn.  I'll keep at it for awhile and might see if I can get a lesson if I can find a local coach.  Never had any issues about working out at home, but I can see where having a good trainer around would really help out with a lift like this.

Thanks for the replies guys.  Practice, practice...

[Zach Trowbridge]

Like jpm mentioned, work on wrist, tricep and lat flexibility.  I even noticed that I had to stretch my rear  and side delts more when I started to learn cleans, as I was pretty damn stiff in my shoulder girdle.  Basically anything from the waist up is worth stretching, and maybe using a foam roller and doing some myofascial release.

[Cap]

Using an overhand grip, not a hook grip, as suggested in Rippetoe's Starting Strength while learning.  Taking the last 2 fingers off the bar gets it a bit closer tho.  Also just using an empty bar through high pulls until I feel more confident with the movement, so there's no weight pushing the bar down onto the delts.  That could be a factor.

The thing that this thrower taught me was to use the momentum you create in the beginning to make the lift easier.  What I mean is you don't need to think of this as a deadlift, upright row and clean movement.  You pinch your shoulders, get a strong ass pull and let that bar fly up, albeit under control, dip underneath and your hands will go where they need to.  I know you are worried about your wrists but tape them up, and try that with moderate weight.  On your high pulls you will know what I mean. 

[Get Rowdy]

Is there any advantage to doing cleans instead of high pulls?  Apart from the practice for olympic lifting.

[jpm101]

Hi-pulls will have a wider grip than regular cleans. Both affect the same muscles groups, though not quite exactly. Personal view is that Hi-pulls hit the rear delts better. Cleans will require a little more quickness/timing, as you are dipping down and catching the bar. No so with Hi-pulls, where the baris  lifted into empty space.  Both have a very importance place in serious training, either for strength or muscle mass. In any case, play with each version and see what works best for you.

Personal note: I prefer Hi-pulls as a basic power movement. Seem to handle much heavier weight for a shorter distance. Good Luck.

[jpm101]

Added note: With either the Hi-pull or clean, you are also pulling with the traps, not just the hands/arms. Try paying attention to the traps (shrugging up hard) during any type pull. First thing I learned when getting into some Olympic lifting; hands, elbows and traps should act together as a single unit for the most potential in any pull. Most guy's new to the pull depend way too much on the hands only, forgetting the elbows and traps altogether.

Check out the traps of some of the lifters at the Olympic games. Also their lower back muscles are very deep and thick. The lower back muscles contract extremely hard when doing cleans or Hi-pulls.  All the more better if you have ever seen some of the top lifters in person. Good Luck.

[oldtimer1]

First thing I'd like to say is that I'm not an Olympic lifter although I include cleans and snatches in my workout routine.  I'm far from an authority on the lifts.  With that said my observation is that most elite level lifters can keep a complete grip on the bar when racking it.  I have seen many very good lifters who open their hand to an extent when racking the clean.  When they get ready to jerk they bump up the bar and regrip the bar prior to the jerk.  Look at plenty of pictures and videos of Olympic lifters and you will see what I mean.  I find that flexibility improves from just doing the front squat.  Yes it hurts but with time you will find the flexibility.

Also try to widen your grip a little.  Sometimes that makes it easier.