Nine days into his legislative career.... CHANGE?

[Migs]

Whether or not you agree with all his spending choices - you have to agree he has been very effective at making changes to meet his vision. 

key words - his vision

i don't agree with his spending clauses, or the closing of guantanimo, or ceasing off shore drilling.  or spending millions on art appreciation

[240 is Back]

key words - his vision

i don't agree with his spending clauses, or the closing of guantanimo, or ceasing off shore drilling.  or spending millions on art appreciation

I agree with closing gitmo.  you can torture them in egypt all you want, without giving 12-year old idiots over there a nice headline to motivate them.  Yes, some did come thanks to gitmo.

I agree with no offshore drilling.  Put that $ into other energy research.  You have 2,000 independent mechanics using their beer money to make cars that get 200 miles to the gallon.  Put a few hundred mil into it, and you might have seomthing.

Spending millions on art appreciation - gayer than...

[tonymctones]

I agree with closing gitmo.  you can torture them in egypt all you want, without giving 12-year old idiots over there a nice headline to motivate them.  Yes, some did come thanks to gitmo.

I agree with no offshore drilling.  Put that $ into other energy research.  You have 2,000 independent mechanics using their beer money to make cars that get 200 miles to the gallon.  Put a few hundred mil into it, and you might have seomthing.

Spending millions on art appreciation - gayer than...

again though this is a stimulus bill that needs to take effect immediately not 5-10 yrs down the road let them create another bill to get funding for that dont piggy back one b/c you know it will get rushed through and you can fund your pet projects.

[240 is Back]

again though this is a stimulus bill that needs to take effect immediately not 5-10 yrs down the road let them create another bill to get funding for that dont piggy back one b/c you know it will get rushed through and you can fund your pet projects.

I agree, to an extent.

Where in the definition of "stimulus" is a time limitation written?  It'll stimulate things in 2009, 2010, 2011, and beyond.

Plus, Obama may be trying to get the $ secured for these purposes now.  If he loses congress in 2010 (not likely, but possible), something like this would never get through.

if you had causes like energy research and arts that you believed strongly in - and you had only a guaranteed 18 months of a congress to pass it, how long would you wait?

[tonymctones]

I agree, to an extent.

Where in the definition of "stimulus" is a time limitation written?  It'll stimulate things in 2009, 2010, 2011, and beyond.

Plus, Obama may be trying to get the $ secured for these purposes now.  If he loses congress in 2010 (not likely, but possible), something like this would never get through.

if you had causes like energy research and arts that you believed strongly in - and you had only a guaranteed 18 months of a congress to pass it, how long would you wait?

This bill again should be lean and mean get money in where it needs to be now and then argue over the shitty little pet projects in another bill later.

thats exactly right and the precise reason the democrats will lose big in the next elections. This stimulus will not be the last that need to be shoved into the economy, you know it and I know it. By bloating this bill up with pet projects you ensure that the next bill which will more then likely be a bill aimed at getting the economy going now will have little chance of making it through. Like I said if you want money for your pet projects fine thats all in good id like to see money go towards researching alternative fuels but this is not the bill for it plain and simple.

[240 is Back]

thats exactly right and the precise reason the democrats will lose big in the next elections. This stimulus will not be the last that need to be shoved into the economy, you know it and I know it. By bloating this bill up with pet projects you ensure that the next bill which will more then likely be a bill aimed at getting the economy going now will have little chance of making it through. Like I said if you want money for your pet projects fine thats all in good id like to see money go towards researching alternative fuels but this is not the bill for it plain and simple.

Do you agree with some (as I do), that IF the economy does recover in the next 12 months, the dems (and this package) will get the credit for it?

Most ppl aren't going to break down the millions spent and where.

They'll know 1) Obama and Dems wanted this economy thing, and repubs didn't.
2)  The economy is better.

[tonymctones]

Do you agree with some (as I do), that IF the economy does recover in the next 12 months, the dems (and this package) will get the credit for it?

Most ppl aren't going to break down the millions spent and where.

They'll know 1) Obama and Dems wanted this economy thing, and repubs didn't.
2)  The economy is better.

ehhh yes and no i agree that if the economy gets better then ya alot of dems jobs will be saved that is if this bill is the last bill which i think you will agree wont be. I think more ppl are going to be critical of obama for better or worse b/c of the celebrity he achieved. I agree with you though if the economy gets better then nobody will really care about politics as much so the encumbants will probably stay. However what i think will happen is this bill will get passed with minor modifications and alot of pork and a few months down the road or a yr down the road another stimulus bill will be suggested and all the pork and unnecessary shit in this bill that the republicans are mostly against will be brought up and to light giving them traction in the next elections.

[240 is Back]

This $1T tril bill will be the Iraq vote part II.

If it fails - it'll be the reason the dems lose seats and the white house.  Obama has admitted this much already.  Said he'll be a one-term guy if this doesn't work.

If it succeeds - the dems will probably have 61 or 62 seats and an overwhemling rep advantage, and yes, the white house easily in 2012.

[tonymctones]

This $1T tril bill will be the Iraq vote part II.

If it fails - it'll be the reason the dems lose seats and the white house.  Obama has admitted this much already.  Said he'll be a one-term guy if this doesn't work.

If it succeeds - the dems will probably have 61 or 62 seats and an overwhemling rep advantage, and yes, the white house easily in 2012.

again it would be better for all involved to create an actual stimulus bill that gets in right away creates/saves jobs and then i actually think it would be easier for the dems to get another bill passed for their pet projects although they would probably have to scale it down a bit from what they want now for them but still better for all those involved.

[240 is Back]

again it would be better for all involved to create an actual stimulus bill that gets in right away creates/saves jobs and then i actually think it would be easier for the dems to get another bill passed for their pet projects although they would probably have to scale it down a bit from what they want now for them but still better for all those involved.

they're going to get one big grab.

Then, the next one won't come nearly so easy.  They're in the honeymoon now.  You don't wait til you're married 15 years to poke your wife in the rump.  You do it on the honeymoon because you're both liquored up, everyone's happy, and it's the time to take changes and not really deal with consequences.

He knows the stim is automatic, but the green energy, infrastructure, arts, and others might not be.  Why take 3 losses on those, if he can get his way on everyhint with 1 big win?