What the fuck is wrong with the UK?

[Radical Plato]

Ah, okay. We share this, then. Except I don't like people.

Oh, you are a Misanthropist, I sometimes describe myself as that! But it is people like Chomsky, Assange and Pilger plus many others that give me hope!

[phreak]

Oh, you are a Misanthropist, I sometimes describe myself as that! But it is people like Chomsky, Assange and Pilger plus many others that give me hope!

I wouldn't consider myself a misanthrope, as I don't actively dislike people on general principle. Not liking =/= actively disliking. I maintain a neutral stance.

[Roger Bacon]

if we were invaded and there was an attempt at occupation!  This is the only time I think a Country should wage war - if Invaded!

If you have proof of imminent attack, can you preemptively strike?  Or do you wait until they've crossed your boarders?

[phreak]

If you have proof of imminent attack, can you preemptively strike?  Or do you wait until they've crossed your boarders?

If a preemptive strike is okay, then what value do borders have? Also, this is a slippery slope towards thought crime.

[Roger Bacon]

Oh No! I Hate Nationalism

Does this not strongly align you with the New World Order?

[Roger Bacon]

You love your country. Can you explain this to me? I have never understood nationalism.

Do you love or have pride in your family and friends?  Do you value your ancestors, people with similar upbringings, belief, and way of life as your own?

[Roger Bacon]

How most Britons feel in 2012:

Hilarious, and awesome! 

[phreak]

Do you love or have pride in your family and friends? Do you value your ancestors, people with similar upbringings, belief, and way of life as your own?

Many questions in one.

Do I love my family (parents, sister, wife, everyone who I grew up with that died)? Mostly yes, but only those I actually knew. [edit] And only because by sheer luck they all treated me well[/edit]

Do I have pride in my family? No, at least not for the simple fact of existing. Existing is easy, 7 billion people are doing it right now.

Do I value my ancestors? Not simply for being my ancestors, no. If they did something noteworthy, then maybe yes. But then only those who actually did it. Just being related to someone who made a difference doesn't count.

Do I value people not related to me, for any reason? Not unless they did something amazing.


In short: I don't generalise. I'm not going to venerate 'the Dutch' because they (technically I should say 'we', but I honestly don't see myself as being any nationality) were once one of the world's superpowers. 99.99% of them were digging for potatoes with their hands in those days, so they did nothing praiseworthy. So by extension I cannot understand US (or any other) nationalism. Yes, a very small group of British expats actually fought the Brits during the American revolution. Meanwhile farmers farmed, millers milled, butchers butchered, and haters hated. Those other people did nothing worthy of praise, so why give it to them?

[Roger Bacon]

Many questions in one.

Do I love my family (parents, sister, wife, everyone who I grew up with that died)? Mostly yes, but only those I actually knew. [edit] And only because by sheer luck they all treated me well[/edit]

Do I have pride in my family? No, at least not for the simple fact of existing. Existing is easy, 7 billion people are doing it right now.

Do I value my ancestors? Not simply for being my ancestors, no. If they did something noteworthy, then maybe yes. But then only those who actually did it. Just being related to someone who made a difference doesn't count.

Do I value people not related to me, for any reason? Not unless they did something amazing.


In short: I don't generalise. I'm not going to venerate 'the Dutch' because they (technically I should say 'we', but I honestly don't see myself as being any nationality) were once one of the world's superpowers. 99.99% of them were digging for potatoes with their hands in those days, so they did nothing praiseworthy. So by extension I cannot understand US (or any other) nationalism. Yes, a very small group of British expats actually fought the Brits during the American revolution. Meanwhile farmers farmed, millers milled, butchers butchered, and haters hated. Those other people did nothing worthy of praise, so why give it to them?

Fair enough!    I appreciate the response.

Can I ask you one more question?  What's you're opinion on the overwhelming immigration of Muslims to the Netherlands?  If they are in fact changing the "Dutch Identity", and culture do you mind it?  What do you think of Geert Wilders?

[phreak]

Fair enough!    I appreciate the response.

Can I ask you one more question?  What's you're opinion on the overwhelming immigration of Muslims to the Netherlands?  If they are in fact changing the "Dutch Identity", and culture do you mind it?  What do you think of Geert Wilders?

There is no such thing as a Dutch identity. Even in such a small country, there are so many differences. Frysians have more in common with Skandinavians (at least in my experience) than with people from Amsterdam. Limburgers are seen by many as de facto Belgians. We have extremist liberals, but we also have Urk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urk). The typical Dutchman does not exist.

Muslims: fine with me. They have an influence on our culture which is already noticeable, but see above: it doesn't matter. Of course I despise the freeloading fuckers that use religion as an excuse to be lazy, criminal, or both. But I hate lily-white, purebred Batavian-stock Dutch freeloaders equally. If muslims come here, practice their religion, and work to make this country better, then more power to them.

Geert Wilders: I voted for him last time, simply because I don't like political correctness. He has had his influence, so he has now outlasted his usefulness. We now need real politicians. Unfortunately we won't be getting any of those, and this country will go to hell even further. Ah well, it's a big world out there.

[Roger Bacon]

There is no such thing as a Dutch identity. Even in such a small country, there are so many differences. Frysians have more in common with Skandinavians (at least in my experience) than with people from Amsterdam. Limburgers are seen by many as de facto Belgians. We have extremist liberals, but we also have Urk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urk). The typical Dutchman does not exist.

Muslims: fine with me. They have an influence on our culture which is already noticeable, but see above: it doesn't matter. Of course I despise the freeloading fuckers that use religion as an excuse to be lazy, criminal, or both. But I hate lily-white, purebred Batavian-stock Dutch freeloaders equally. If muslims come here, practice their religion, and work to make this country better, then more power to them.

Geert Wilders: I voted for him last time, simply because I don't like political correctness. He has had his influence, so he has now outlasted his usefulness. We now need real politicians. Unfortunately we won't be getting any of those, and this country will go to hell even further. Ah well, it's a big world out there.

Enlightening posts, I appreciate it! 

I've read several account of European life and culture being desecrated by this "invasion".  Honor Killings, Rapes, Murders, Etc...  People claiming the neighborhoods that they've called home for 30+ years have been completely changed and over run with "homophobia, anti-Semitism and suppression of women".

I thought this Dutch identity was well known?  It's contributed much to modern society.  You and I are obviously on different wavelengths.

Anyway, keep up the good work my friend! 

[phreak]

Enlightening posts, I appreciate it! 

You're welcome.

I've read several account of European life and culture being desecrated by this "invasion".  Honor Killings, Rapes, Murders, Etc...  People claiming the neighborhoods that they've called home for 30+ years have been completely changed and over run with "homophobia, anti-Semitism and suppression of women".

And this is somewhat true. Then again (speaking for Holland only) the problem really isn't that big. Maybe that's just a matter of time? But interbreeding will sort this out soon enough, I think. The us-vs-them cannot be maintained then. You can't have 3rd generation Moroccans saying "we only rape and molest non-Moroccans" if the background is too diluted. And interbreeding is happening quite a lot. Plus most are decent to begin with. Neo nazis have a bad rap too, not because they are numerous, but because they stand out.

I thought this Dutch identity was well known?  It's contributed much to modern society.  You and I are obviously on different wavelengths.

There's a dichotomy between what the Dutch preach, and what they do. We preach equality and freedom to all, yet many here have been, and always will be, closed-minded bigots. Yes, an enlightened minority has ensured gay rights. But the plebs isn't all that keen on it. Same with race. Official hiring practices are extremely non-discriminatory. There's even a proposal (maybe shot down now?) where names on job applications should be blocked out, so that an employer cannot discriminate based on the potential race of the applicant, based solely on the name. But most Dutch do still discriminate.

So do as we say, not as we do.

[Dr Dutch]

Wien Neerlandsch bloed in de aders vloeit, van vreemde smetten vrij 

[Radical Plato]

If you have proof of imminent attack, can you preemptively strike?  Or do you wait until they've crossed your boarders?

You mean like Weapons of Mass Destruction type of proof!  Like another poster said pre-emptive action borders on Thought Crime, but in the modern world of NUKES, I think it could be argued the need for Pre-emptive action - but I do believe that Violence begets Violence - Peace should always be the motivation when relating with others.  I don't pretend to know the answers to such questions though, it is a complicated world we live in.  It is hard enough for an individual to create consistent peaceful relations with his own friends and family - but it must remain the central focus of any good relationship!

[phreak]

Wien Neerlandsch bloed in de aders vloeit, van vreemde smetten vrij 

99% is zo puur Nederlands als ons koningshuis. 

[Roger Bacon]

You mean like Weapons of Mass Destruction type of proof!  Like another poster said pre-emptive action borders on Thought Crime, but in the modern world of NUKES, I think it could be argued the need for Pre-emptive action - but I do believe that Violence begets Violence - Peace should always be the motivation when relating with others.  I don't pretend to know the answers to such questions though, it is a complicated world we live in.  It is hard enough for an individual to create consistent peaceful relations with his own friends and family - but it must remain the central focus of any good relationship!

Hey, your first good post of the entire thread!  Congradulations 

[Radical Plato]

Hey, your first good post of the entire thread!  Congradulations 

Ditto!

[Roger Bacon]

Ditto!

lol 

[leonp1981]

Wow, no offense chief but does anyone has the time to read all this shit on a daily basis.

Brutal can't spell "to summarize", epic cap-talism/make your own choice and hate and potentially curry vibe.

are you indian Chief? (I don't mean being an indian-chief, literally; I mean the brown ones who think they are smarter than a 5th grader).

Some obviously did.  And I'm fairly sure you're bright enough to realise that 'summarize' is an Americanised spelling of the English word.