Today's perception of racism is mind boggling.

[Primemuscle]

Say you are a Caucasian male and your walking up to a store and crackhead Willy who is black and who is always in front of the store says " hey let me hole cwenty dolla's til Monday" to which you reply "go fuck yourself" which is really just short for saying hey Willy nothing personal but I just don't think your a good investment.  Well most minorities would in fact deem you a racist but if Willy was asking another black man that just happens up to the store and he replies " get your mother f--King ass back Willy , hell no you ain't getting no money from me guy" because he know Willy is a crackhead and he'll never see his money again but it's ok and not deemed racist, why.

Imagine the scenario you exampled with a few changes. Let's suppose crackhead Willy is white; how do you think these encounters would go down? What if the Caucasian male in your story didn't speak in shorthand and gave the crackhead a more thorough explanation, much like the one you suggested his was short for? Now take it a step further and have some or all of the characters in you "play" be female and then tell everyone what would have happened.

[Pray_4_War]

If you're using this logic, then at worst, you have zero-sum discrimination.

Bullshit.

But, the logic you're using isn't sound. 

Enlighten me.

[Al Doggity]

Bullshit.

Why is it bullshit? In your scenario, the discrimination is- at worst- the same, just distributed differently. It's not creating more discrimination.

[Pray_4_War]

Why is it bullshit? In your scenario, the discrimination is- at worst- the same, just distributed differently. It's not creating more discrimination.

I think we may be splitting hairs on this point but....I wasn't suggesting that discriminating against whites to compensate for past discrimination of blacks will cause more discrimination.  My point was that it is more discrimination.  We are saying as a society that discrimination based on race is wrong, but the "solution" to the oppression of blacks is to do the same thing only in reverse.  To compensate, to make up for.  But two wrongs don't make a right.  At the end of the day, someone is getting fucked over because of their race.  I contend that racial discrimination is wrong regardless of why you are doing it, or who you are doing it to.

[Al Doggity]

I think we may be splitting hairs on this point but....I wasn't suggesting that discriminating against whites to compensate for past discrimination of blacks will cause more discrimination.  My point was that it is more discrimination.  We are saying as a society that discrimination based on race is wrong, but the "solution" to the oppression of blacks is to do the same thing only in reverse.  To compensate, to make up for.  But two wrongs don't make a right.  At the end of the day, someone is getting fucked over because of their race.  I contend that racial discrimination is wrong regardless of why you are doing it, or who you are doing it to.

If discrimination is going to exist, then why is it better if it is concentrated among one group and absent within another group? Why is it worse if it is distributed more evenly?

If you're claiming that's what's going on, it seems like it's better to have it spread out.

[The Scott]

If discrimination is going to exist, then why is it better if it is concentrated among one group and absent within another group? Why is it worse if it is distributed more evenly?

So long as the punishment for said "discrimination" is just as evenly distributed.  Two wrongs do not a right make.  Neither do three lefts. 

You have heard of justice, no?  In your world it sounds like it means, "just us".   

[Pray_4_War]

If discrimination is going to exist, then why is it better if it is concentrated among one group and absent within another group? Why is it worse if it is distributed more evenly?

Your premise is absurd.

If someone raped your girlfriend, would it be appropriate for the cops to catch the guy and then allow you to legally rape his girlfriend.  Would that make you even?  Would feel good about that, you know, destributing the rape more evenly.  After all, rape is going to exist.

[The Scott]

Your premise is absurd.

If someone raped your girlfriend, would it be appropriate for the cops to catch the guy and then allow you to legally rape his girlfriend.  Would that make you even?  Would feel good about that, you know, destributing the rape more evenly.  After all, rape is going to exist.

Excellent retort.  Sharp but civil.  Well stated, sir.

[Pray_4_War]

Excellent retort.  Sharp but civil.  Well stated, sir.

Cheers.

[mr.turbo]

It is a bizarrely shallow argument. I understand why most guys on here buy into that line of thinking, though.

It's not really thinking, it's more like some sort of gut reaction mixed with regurgitated talking points. Howard is like a savant though, he's like the smartest guy here. I'm hopeful about him.

[Al Doggity]

Your premise is absurd.

If someone raped your girlfriend, would it be appropriate for the cops to catch the guy and then allow you to legally rape his girlfriend.  Would that make you even?  Would feel good about that, you know, destributing the rape more evenly.  After all, rape is going to exist.

LOL and MY premise is absurd.   This is one of the worst hypotheticals I've ever read.  But, I'll play along.

First of all, if my girlfriend was raped, I WOULD want vengeance. Raping his girlfriend wouldn't fall under my idea of revenge that makes sense, but I would at least want to beat his ass. However, if he was caught by the police, he would be meted out some legally ascribed vengeance. No one would be making the argument that two wrongs don't make a right.

Secondly, no rape is not inevitable. As a matter of fact, just a few posts ago you were claiming that we were splitting hairs over the idea of more discrimination vs the same amount of discrimination. In your ridiculous rape scenario, I'm not evenly distributing rapes, I'm needlessly becoming a rapist.  People need jobs, housing, education, etc. People must compete for these things because there is a limited supply and they are not fungible. People do not need to rape or be raped.

Thirdly, if ,for some reason, there was a set number of rapes that, for some bizarre reason, had to occur every year,  I would not want them all to occur to my girlfriend. If for some reason, all of the rapes happened to her, I'd be like "Damn. This is unfair!" If for some reason, they only happened to women of a certain race in a certain neighborhood, I'd think "Damn. This is unfair! What are the reasons behind this." If, for some bizarre reason, these rapes have to exist, I don't want them to be concentrated among one group of people if there are ways to prevent it and it makes sense to do so. If, for some bizarre reason, a certain number of rapes MUST exist, yes, I'd feel better if they were evenly distributed instead of concentrated among one group.

[Pray_4_War]

LOL and MY premise is absurd.   This is one of the worst hypotheticals I've ever read.  

First of all, if my girlfriend was raped, I WOULD want vengeance. Raping his girlfriend wouldn't fall under my idea of revenge, but I would at least want to beat his ass. However, if he was caught by the police, he would be meted out some legally ascribed vengeance. No one would be making the argument that two wrongs don't make a right.

Secondly, no rape is not inevitable. As a matter of fact, just a few posts ago you were claiming that we were splitting hairs over the idea of more discrimination vs the same amount of discrimination. In your ridiculous rape scenario, I'm not evenly distributing rapes, I'm needlessly becoming a rapist.  People need jobs, housing, education, etc. People do not need to rape or be raped.

Thirdly, if ,for some reason, there was a set number of rapes that, for some bizarre reason, had to occur every year,  I would not want them all to occur to my girlfriend. If for some reason, all of the rapes happened to her, I'd be like "Damn. This is unfair!" If for some reason, they only happened to women of a certain race in a certain neighborhood, I'd think "Damn. This is unfair! What are the reasons behind this." If, for some bizarre reason, these rapes have to exist, I don't want them to be concentrated among one group of people.

I contend that it's likely you also want vengeance for racism and discrimination.  Many do.

Also, I'm just curious, how long did it take you to concoct this reply?  lol.  Seriously, if you step away from our debate for a second and just look at this post alone, it is hilarious.  This is one of my favorite posts on Getbig in a while.  Especially the part about not wanting all the rapes in the rape quota to happen to your girlfriend. So funny.

Lastly, I believe that racial discrimination is wrong. Like rape, I do not believe that it is inevitable.  When it does exist, it should be investigated and punished appropriately.  It should not be "spread around" in a futile and illogical attempt to make it "fair".

[Al Doggity]

I contend that it's likely you also want vengeance for racism and discrimination.  Many do.

And this is why I contend that you're logic is flawed. Your premise is that the things you criticize are vengeance for things that happened in the past, as opposed to corrections for the way things currently are.

Also, I'm just curious, how long did it take you to concoct this reply?  lol.  Seriously, if you step away from our debate for a second and just look at this post alone, it is hilarious.  This is one of my favorite posts on Getbig in a while.  Especially the part about not wanting all the rapes in the rape quota to happen to your girlfriend. So funny.

It's hard to say. I started it, then went downstairs to grab something to eat at a diner, then came back up and reconfigured it. Then, I edited it three times after I posted it.

Lastly, I believe that racial discrimination is wrong. Like rape, I do not believe that it is inevitable.  When it does exist, it should be investigated and punished appropriately.  It should not be "spread around" in a futile and illogical attempt to make it "fair".

This is another place where I think your logic is flawed. Let's be clear, I was responding according to what I perceived your rules to be  on your turf.

Racial discrimination exists and is pervasive. It's an ingrained part of a system that almost everyone in the western world has to participate in. The same is simply not true of rape and it's not a good allegory. You say that you don't think racial discrimination is inevitable, but these measures that you bash are responses to insidious problems that already exist. Not illogical hypotheticals.

[Pray_4_War]

And this is why I contend that you're logic is flawed. Your premise is that the things you criticize are vengeance for things that happened in the past, as opposed to corrections for the way things currently are.

Perpetuating racial discrimination is not correcting it.  We are simply changing the reason for the behavior and changing who it is directed at.

It's hard to say. I started it, then went downstairs to grab something to eat at a diner, then came back up and reconfigured it. Then, I edited it three times after I posted it.

 

lol.  So a while.

This is another place where I think your logic is flawed. Let's be clear, I was responding according to what I perceived your rules to be  on your turf.

Racial discrimination exists and is pervasive. It's an ingrained part of a system that almost everyone in the western world has to participate in. The same is simply not true of rape and it's not a good allegory. You say that you don't think racial discrimination is inevitable, but these measures that you bash are responses to insidious problems that already exist. Not illogical hypotheticals.

Racial discrimination most certainly is pervasive but it is not a constant like the sun rising each day.  Attitudes and behaviors can change over time if addressed correctly.  If not addressed correctly they will continue to fester and that is exactly what has happened.  Also, I refute your claim that racial discrimination is an invention of the western world.  It should be quite clear that it is a human condition evidenced all through history in every corner of the globe.  Rape and racial discrimination are very much the same.  Both have been around since the dawn of man.  Is racial discrimination not rape.  The rape of ones dignity, the rape of one's future, the rape of dreams and ambitions.  Both are often the means to inflict power over someone.  They couldn't be more alike.  Again, I contend that we are not responding to the problem of racial discrimination, we are merely changing the why and the who.  It simply must stop.  We will never have racial harmony until everyone is playing by the same set of rules.  That used to be the argument of the civil rights movement.  Somewhere along the way the message changed.

[Al Doggity]

Perpetuating racial discrimination is not correcting it.  We are simply changing the reason for the behavior and changing who it is directed at.

If the latter point  is the case, then racial discrimination is not being perpetuated. As I said earlier, at worst, it is a sum zero effect. How is it not better that it be distributed more broadly rather than concentrated within a few groups?

 
If you feel like this is a bad way to respond to racial discrimination issues, then what do you think are good ways?
Up til now, you haven't really said anything other than

Also, I refute your claim that racial discrimination is an invention of the western world.

I never said that. I said that racial discrimination is a part of a system that almost everyone who lives in a modern, western country participates in. Anyone seeking housing, employment, education, etc.

Rape and racial discrimination are very much the same.  Both have been around since the dawn of man.  Is racial discrimination not rape.  The rape of ones dignity, the rape of one's future, the rape of dreams and ambitions.  Both are often the means to inflict power over someone.  They couldn't be more alike.

If you are vague enough and over-dramatic enough, anything can be anything else. 

[phreak]

DP can change the way we view race relations throughout the world.

I doubt it. My wife is still racist, even after me and my buddy tore her pussy open.

[phreak]

Thirdly, if ,for some reason, there was a set number of rapes that, for some bizarre reason, had to occur every year,  I would not want them all to occur to my girlfriend. If for some reason, all of the rapes happened to her, I'd be like "Damn. This is unfair!" If for some reason, they only happened to women of a certain race in a certain neighborhood, I'd think "Damn. This is unfair! What are the reasons behind this." If, for some bizarre reason, these rapes have to exist, I don't want them to be concentrated among one group of people if there are ways to prevent it and it makes sense to do so. If, for some bizarre reason, a certain number of rapes MUST exist, yes, I'd feel better if they were evenly distributed instead of concentrated among one group.

Exactly, the disproportionate rate of black on white violence is unfair! Good to know we agree on this.

[Papper]

Your and you're. Figure it out.

Might as well change this to your, you're is to hard to write and most write your anyway

[Papper]

Say you are a Caucasian male and your walking up to a store and crackhead Willy who is black and who is always in front of the store says " hey let me hole cwenty dolla's til Monday" to which you reply "go fuck yourself" which is really just short for saying hey Willy nothing personal but I just don't think your a good investment.  Well most minorities would in fact deem you a racist but if Willy was asking another black man that just happens up to the store and he replies " get your mother f--King ass back Willy , hell no you ain't getting no money from me guy" because he know Willy is a crackhead and he'll never see his money again but it's ok and not deemed racist, why.

I feel really offended by being referred to as a "cock asian"

I like the sound of white more

[_bruce_]

The political climate since the 60ies has been anti white/anti western - nothing new. The insanities you see today(education/media/politics) are the climax of a long time endeavor which is approaching its comical climax.
Dismantling the west, which has also been indirectly supported by our own laziness, was a pretty cruel and unnecessary move.

[Howard]

no, that's not reality. you've just described an idealized scenario (two teams on a field). the real world is nothing like this. that's why measures like the ones you're complaining about are put into place. Things tend to exist for a reason. of course that's elementary logic.

If it's really just a double standard then why do these measures exist in the first place? Is some sort of agenda at work?

The two teams on the field example is an analogy , used to illustrate a more esoteric idea.
It is not meant to be taken literally.

The real harsh truth is that in the game of life, somebody wins and others lose.
From job interviews to elections, one person gets it and the rest lost out.

Agenda? Doah...of course affirmative action has a social agenda. It fixes who the winner will be in the name of
fairness and retribution for past wrongs against a group or class of people.

That sounds nice and fair, until one realizes the basic "real life" practical implications.
Now, you force a new kind of person to be the winner, which means the others will be the loser.
Give a minority a job over a white guy based mostly on race and for some it may sound like justice.
BUT, the odds are good he white guy did nothing wrong and now lost his shot at a good job.

In the end, one wins and the others lose. Nobody wants to lose a fixed game on either side.
The ONLY practical thing to do is have fair, clear rules and let the results happen as they will.

[Al Doggity]

In the end, one wins and the others lose. Nobody wants to lose a fixed game on either side.
The ONLY practical thing to do is have fair, clear rules and let the results happen as they will.

How is this the only practical thing to do?    You're really claiming that life is made up of fair, clear rules with the exception affirmative action?

[Agnostic007]

I don't understand the idea that because a group were discriminated against in the past, it's ok for the other group who had nothing to do with that, but happen to share the same race, to be discriminated against. We have an Assistant Chief retiring soon. He is a minority. It is without a doubt his predecessor will be minority regardless of his or her tenure or ability to do that job. Yet no one is allowed to complain about reverse discrimination

[Al Doggity]

I don't understand the idea that because a group were discriminated against in the past, it's ok for the other group who had nothing to do with that, but happen to share the same race, to be discriminated against. We have an Assistant Chief retiring soon. He is a minority. It is without a doubt his predecessor will be minority regardless of his or her tenure or ability to do that job. Yet no one is allowed to complain about reverse discrimination

If that other group is still benefiting from the discrimination of the past, then it starts to make sense.