trump bails out on rest of world

[TuHolmes]

take away govt tax breaks and subsidies and most of these companies are out of biz

Companies like Tesla certainly aren't going out of business and they are as green as they come.
Why wouldn't Trump simply stop those subsidies and tax breaks? Speaking of tax breaks. Oil Companies get tax breaks, why wouldn't wind or solar companies get tax breaks?

They all get tax breaks.

[Soul Crusher]

Companies like Tesla certainly aren't going out of business and they are as green as they come.
Why wouldn't Trump simply stop those subsidies and tax breaks? Speaking of tax breaks. Oil Companies get tax breaks, why wouldn't wind or solar companies get tax breaks?

They all get tax breaks.

Because as a measure of energy - oil and gas through off far more energy for the price and cost than solar or wind.  WO subsidies - solar and wind go bye bye tomorrow. 

[TuHolmes]

Because as a measure of energy - oil and gas through off far more energy for the price and cost than solar or wind.  WO subsidies - solar and wind go bye bye tomorrow. 

Not across the board. It depends on certain factors.

Wind Farms onshore are much cheaper than coal or oil. However offshore is much more expensive. Natural gas is super cheap now since it's a byproduct of shale. Photo-voltaic solar is slightly more expensive on the average, but the high end is lower than others. Although regular coal is cheaper than clean coal by a pretty large margin.

So sometimes you're right, and others, not so much.

Honestly, on-shore wind is actually one of the cheapest, but obviously solar has a long way to go, and it IS getting there.

[Soul Crusher]

Trust me - nothing id like better than Solar being the end all and telling Con Ed and the govt to go f themselves and generating my own energy.  that  hopefully will happen one day to where the Govt gets no more tax revenue from energy taxes and we have the tech to make our own.   

Not across the board. It depends on certain factors.

Wind Farms onshore are much cheaper than coal or oil. However offshore is much more expensive. Natural gas is super cheap now since it's a byproduct of shale. Photo-voltaic solar is slightly more expensive on the average, but the high end is lower than others. Although regular coal is cheaper than clean coal by a pretty large margin.

So sometimes you're right, and others, not so much.

Honestly, on-shore wind is actually one of the cheapest, but obviously solar has a long way to go, and it IS getting there.

[Conker]

Compared to getbiggers  (and Trump) what would MIT scientists know about atmospheric physics ?
How cocky dumb does someone have to be,  to try and debate an issue they're ignorant on?

yeh scientists are very smart yet they still can't find a cure for cancer in 100 yrs plus... but now they've worked out how to manipulate the earth's climate. OK

the planet has been heating up and cooling down for years before humans got here and scientists can't explain why...sure none of us are in a position to debate "atmospheric physics" with MIT scientists (whoever they are). But some people can tell BS when they smell it.

[Conker]

the point for me isn't really about where anyone stands on climate change. the bottom line is, after all the military and political support most of the rest of the developed world has given the US in fighting it's endless wars in the middle east for nearly 2 decades.
you'd think the very least they'd do in return is stand united with those countries on an issue that most see as being of great importance. and a cause the US had already committed to support.

[Conker]

on the plus side global warming is apparently helping to close the hole in ozone layer.

[Howard]

yeh scientists are very smart yet they still can't find a cure for cancer in 100 yrs plus... but now they've worked out how to manipulate the earth's climate. OK

the planet has been heating up and cooling down for years before humans got here and scientists can't explain why...sure none of us are in a position to debate "atmospheric physics" with MIT scientists (whoever they are). But some people can tell BS when they smell it.

I know you honestly believe that, because it's just good common sense, right?  

Circa 1902, " If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings"

Circa 1491 , " If you sail in 1 direction long enough, you'll fall off the edge of the earth."

Circa 1542 , " God made  the sun and planets move around the earth."

Circa 2007? , " It stings when the tip goes, in, then I lay back and let the good times roll" * TBombz

FYI, just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean its' false.

[Howard]

on the plus side global warming is apparently helping to close the hole in ozone layer.

Thank you Dr Genova 

[TuHolmes]

Trust me - nothing id like better than Solar being the end all and telling Con Ed and the govt to go f themselves and generating my own energy.  that  hopefully will happen one day to where the Govt gets no more tax revenue from energy taxes and we have the tech to make our own.   

Exactly. If we really REALLY cared about lowering costs and saving money, then we would absolutely think more long term and find ways to cut out the government.

[Howard]

Exactly. If we really REALLY cared about lowering costs and saving money, then we would absolutely think more long term and find ways to cut out the government.

Oh yeah, electric grid deregulation in California led to great customer service on providing electric power .
I say we all go with the ENRON model and live happily ever after.

[TuHolmes]

Oh yeah, electric grid deregulation in California led to great customer service on providing electric power .
I say we all go with the ENRON model and live happily ever after.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying if I eliminate the need for government AND electric companies by having high quality self service electrical, we will all be much better off.

Think about Tesla and their personal solar environment they propose.

https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

[Conker]

I know you honestly believe that, because it's just good common sense, right?  

Circa 1902, " If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings"

Circa 1491 , " If you sail in 1 direction long enough, you'll fall off the edge of the earth."

Circa 1542 , " God made  the sun and planets move around the earth."

Circa 2007? , " It stings when the tip goes, in, then I lay back and let the good times roll" * TBombz

FYI, just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean its' false.

yeh yeh yeh and i suppose these scientists will soon come up with a way to avoid the next ice age too!

if humans really want "to save the world" they should concentrate their efforts into far more attainable goals ... like finding a way to bring about nuclear disarmament as that's a far more likely end of the world scenario than climate change ever will be . i wonder if scientists have a fix for that one

[Conker]

Thank you Dr Genova 

only going on what the "experts" say 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/11/try-to-keep-up-earths-ozone-layer-is-recovering-but-that-is-making-global-warming-worse/?utm_term=.e24ca7846e1a

"Paradoxically, the heat-trapping greenhouse gases believed to contribute to global warming are actually helping rebuild the ozone layer. Paul A. Newman, who co-chairs the U.N. panel, told the AP higher levels of carbon dioxide and other gases help cool the upper stratosphere, which increases the amount of ozone."

[Pray_4_War]

Foreigners posts on the politics board should be 1/4th sized font compared to the Americans.

I'm for it.  It's like people who don't pay taxes becoming political activists.

Thank you very much but I'd rather hear from someone who has some skin in the game.

Fuck Paris, fuck global warming and fuck the UN.  You want to brow beat somebody over what they do to the environment then go talk to China.

[TuHolmes]

I'm for it.  It's like people who don't pay taxes becoming political activists.

Thank you very much but I'd rather hear from someone who has some skin in the game.

Fuck Paris, fuck global warming and fuck the UN.  You want to brow beat somebody over what they do to the environment then go talk to China.

Absolutely. Their record is atrocious. They will get theirs though. I thoroughly believe that if things get bad enough, their people will see to it that things change.

[Conker]

the US doesn't stand alone on this issue. syria and nicaragua also against it. so in good company 
tbf assad does have a bit on his plate at this time to be worrying about climate change

[Conker]

contrary to common misconception the chinese are actually leading the way on climate change these days 

"China will stay committed to upholding and promoting the global governance on climate change, and take an active part in the multilateral process on climate change. We will work with all relevant parties to safeguard the outcomes of the Paris Agreement, press ahead with the negotiation and implementation of the enforcement rules, and promote green, low-carbon and sustainable growth of the world."

"In 2016, China’s solar energy production more than doubled. The National Energy Administration (NEA) reported that by the end of the year, China’s solar capacity rose to 77.42 gigawatts, with an additional increase of 34.54 throughout the year. Having surpassed Germany in terms of installed solar capacity in 2015, China's ambitious plan for renewable energy investment shows no sign of losing momentum."
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-climate-change-policy-solar-production

my guess is it's probably more to do with economics and them wanting to reduce their problem with pollution than them actually falling for the "climate change" bs

[HockeyFightFan]

well i spose there can't be moral obligation without a moral compass.

So youre saying my obligation is to pay taxes so a foreign government can spend that money on anything they want without audit and if I choose to spend that money on my family or myself I have no moral compass?

Liberal stupidity is making life so easy....if they are for something, then I am 100% against it.

Fucking morons.

[Conker]

So youre saying my obligation is to pay taxes so a foreign government can spend that money on anything they want without audit and if I choose to spend that money on my family or myself I have no moral compass?

Liberal stupidity is making life so easy....if they are for something, then I am 100% against it.

Fucking morons.

no what i'm saying is after taxpayers in other countries have paid to support the US in wars that had nothing to do with them and in the process ended up with the enemies of the US now being their enemy too. You might think that support would be reciprocated by the US on an issue that is great of importance to it's previously loyal allies. But if you don't have a moral compass yourself you probably won't get it.

So rather than considering the merits of a given issue you base your opinion on where others might stand on said issue. you sound like a really non moronic kind of guy