found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau

[PJim]

x2 except the "never had a problem" part... like wtf, 3-5 sets to failure is considered a "hard workout" for some people???

It depends how you define "hard". I would say my workouts are intense, but I wouldn't ask you to take my word for it, I'd ask you to train with me, but that's obviously not very likely. The key to training HIT style is to make sure you have a good training partner or two. You won't go to true failure otherwise because you can't fail the static and negative portions of the movement. It is important that your training partner/s allow you to fail your positive and then recognize where your static strength lies, and then allow them to keep lifting the weight up to the next greatest point in static strength, the whole time you will be failing the negative also until the point that you cannot resist in the negative or static at all and the weight should just flop completely down as if you were never even gripping the bar/pressing your feet etc.  THAT is very hard, especially on compound movements straight after isolation movements in the same manner and I have trained with probably 40 plus people in that manner i.e.work colleagues, fellow students, friends and family, intrigued gym-goers. Again, I wouldn't expect you to take my account on face value.

[PJim]

ok man, this could be so, and i'm not saying that it ain't

but i believe training just once a week could/would only work for fellas who are beastly strong ie. squat and dead with 400 pounds for reps, and bench with 300 pounds for reps

IMO, there is certainly over-training, but there is under-training as well, and both are hallmarked by a lack of steady progress

Mentzer's old training style, when he was competing was more "ideal" again IMO, as he training each muscle twice a week on a 2-way split training 4 days per week

My training has been tailored over the years to fit steady progress based on reading and following Mentzer/Yates/Jones and a few other proponents of HIT. I take the fundamentals of HIT and try and adapt it to keep gains consistent by tweaking the variables such as frequency etc and recording everything I do. Like I said, it helps that I have numerous training partners, we usually train in at least a trio so everything can be compared as nerdy as that sounds. To be honest with you, I have been training like this for coming on 7 years now and I have pretty much reached my peak naturally. I'm getting older, my hormones are going to start declining, my recovery rate is not going to be what it was, it's not realistic to keep putting pound upon pound of muscle on an already built frame, there is a finite amount of muscle you will put on naturally and even aided by PEDs.

If I PM you I would outline a routine that you could adapt based on recorded workouts, but remembering to only change certain variables. But, if Mentzer was right about you being, "like an unbridled horse" lol, we may never get to that.

[Figo]

“A few years ago I started training champion bodybuilder Sharon Bruneau. After her first week of three workouts, she told me she wanted to stop training for a while because she’d already seen an increase in size. She was worried she’d be too big for the Ms. Olympia. After three weeks of no training, I put Sharon through another week of three workouts. Curiously enough, she was stronger on every set of every exercise in that second series of three workouts. That meant she’d succeeded in stimulating an increase during the first series of workouts and that her body had not only produced but also maintained the increase—for three weeks. If the body does in fact decompensate after 96 hours, she would have been weaker, but she was considerably stronger after three weeks of absolutely no weight training."

Just like everyone else, Mentzer was selling something, Heavy Duty is not what made the Mentzer brothers pros, but it was a nice new unused gimmick to push, a variation on Arthur Jones' system to sell Nautilus machines.
 Weider & Gironda had theirs, Bob Kennedy had pre-exhaustion, etc. Mike himself didnt do 1 or 2 sets as he prescribed, when called on it, he would say the other 3 or 4 sets were warm-ups.
This is like when Darden mentions in articles and books how by following Jones' superior methods, Arnold, Sergio, Viator, Coe, Wilson, etc all surpassed plateaus, made unbelievable gains, smashed records....  So why did all these names go back to traditional training after finding the holy grail? Were they scared they'd get too big?

[_bruce_]

Just like everyone else, Mentzer was selling something, Heavy Duty is not what made the Mentzer brothers pros, but it was a nice new unused gimmick to push, a variation on Arthur Jones' system to sell Nautilus machines.
 Weider & Gironda had theirs, Bob Kennedy had pre-exhaustion, etc. Mike himself didnt do 1 or 2 sets as he prescribed, when called on it, he would say the other 3 or 4 sets were warm-ups.
This is like when Darden mentions in articles and books how by following Jones' superior methods, Arnold, Sergio, Viator, Coe, Wilson, etc all surpassed plateaus, made unbelievable gains, smashed records....  So why did all these names go back to traditional training after finding the holy grail? Were they scared they'd get too big?

x1000

[Slik]

you = lustful cockmonster

"omg, I wish this hot chick would go away instead of parading her ass up and down for my viewing pleasure"

haha. yup.  i thot about wut i wrote.  no doubt i could watch that all day.  but i don't know.  when a chick gets on drugs...the juice..they get this confidence about them that borders on arrogance..and all i am saying is when there's a million people in the gym and you are cutting a path doing walking lunges like everyone should move or watch out for you i personally don't like it.  hot or not. 

[dj181]

My training has been tailored over the years to fit steady progress based on reading and following Mentzer/Yates/Jones and a few other proponents of HIT. I take the fundamentals of HIT and try and adapt it to keep gains consistent by tweaking the variables such as frequency etc and recording everything I do. Like I said, it helps that I have numerous training partners, we usually train in at least a trio so everything can be compared as nerdy as that sounds. To be honest with you, I have been training like this for coming on 7 years now and I have pretty much reached my peak naturally. I'm getting older, my hormones are going to start declining, my recovery rate is not going to be what it was, it's not realistic to keep putting pound upon pound of muscle on an already built frame, there is a finite amount of muscle you will put on naturally and even aided by PEDs.

If I PM you I would outline a routine that you could adapt based on recorded workouts, but remembering to only change certain variables. But, if Mentzer was right about you being, "like an unbridled horse" lol, we may never get to that.

like i said before, i believe that there's under-training as well, and in my experience if i take more than 10 days or so btw bodyparts i start to gradually regress ie. drop a rep or 2

one thing he said which makes a whole lotta sense is that as one grows progressively bigger and stronger that they need to put more rest days btw bodyparts

[Irongrip400]

I knew someone who, because of work and family etc, could only train once a week.

Week one he did chest, shoulders, triceps

Week two was legs

Week three was back, biceps

He did high volume and pretty high intensity (many sets to failure). Workouts were two hours or so.

Made better progress than most of the gym.

Not gonna lie, but I workout once a week sometimes, and as far as strength, it's about the same. The only thing that changes the first week back in the gym after an extensive layoff is volume. If you're not on drugs, muscle memory is a great thing.

[Jaime]

It's all bullshit. It's all how you as an individual genetically respond to training.

Dorian had a great back wow, what type of training do i do to get a back like that?

Biceps.....Actually i'll skip that advice tyvm.

The same goes for any bodybuilder, it has nothing to do with how they train.

[BB]

are you serious???

Yes, he was in and out of hospitals during the 80's. The amphetamines and his loss to Arnold in '80 screwed him up bad. The story about the Arnold Hit Squad  was a famous one, but there are others like the time he showed up at Arthur Jones's house in the 80's and was so tweaked out that Arthur threw him out and instructed his body guards to never let him near him again, etc.......

I liked Mentzer's build but never felt him to be the thinking man's bodybuilder that he was held out to be, he always struck me as one of the junkies that had a intelligent thought and wrapped a whole bunch odd ball junkie logic around it. The only difference is that he had a bit of established credibility to push it all along.

When you actually talk to the folks that were there, they mention that there was a lot more to "Heavy Duty" than he actually wrote about, lots of sets counted as warm ups, etc...........

[SquatsRule]

Mentzer is responsible for creating legions of lazy pussy bodybuilders who are constantly worried of over training.

[PJim]

Yes, he was in and out of hospitals during the 80's. The amphetamines and his loss to Arnold in '80 screwed him up bad. The story about the Arnold Hit Squad  was a famous one, but there are others like the time he showed up at Arthur Jones's house in the 80's and was so tweaked out that Arthur threw him out and instructed his body guards to never let him near him again, etc.......

I liked Mentzer's build but never felt him to be the thinking man's bodybuilder that he was held out to be, he always struck me as one of the junkies that had a intelligent thought and wrapped a whole bunch odd ball junkie logic around it. The only difference is that he had a bit of established credibility to push it all along.

When you actually talk to the folks that were there, they mention that there was a lot more to "Heavy Duty" than he actually wrote about, lots of sets counted as warm ups, etc...........

I know of a certain Mr.Olympia who very much dislikes Arnold and who knows about his links with certain societies...

[Dr Dutch]

i find this hard to believe, but who knows, maybe it's true...

“A few years ago I started training champion bodybuilder Sharon Bruneau. After her first week of three workouts, she told me she wanted to stop training for a while because she’d already seen an increase in size. She was worried she’d be too big for the Ms. Olympia. After three weeks of no training, I put Sharon through another week of three workouts. Curiously enough, she was stronger on every set of every exercise in that second series of three workouts. That meant she’d succeeded in stimulating an increase during the first series of workouts and that her body had not only produced but also maintained the increase—for three weeks. If the body does in fact decompensate after 96 hours, she would have been weaker, but she was considerably stronger after three weeks of absolutely no weight training."

In Holland we call this kind of "interesting quotes" lies....

[PJim]

indeed.

its not even a problem doing "hit" AND high volume at the same time, same training session.

One of the two will diminish. You need a certain amount of volume to allow yourself to work up to working intensely, but after a certain point that intensity will dwindle because your body will start using energy systems that kick in when endurance, not power is required. That should be grasped as long as you have a mediocre understanding of energy systems. You have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise you're sending the wrong signals to your body and you are if you will flicking the switch to hypertrophy on and off again.

[PJim]

i believe hypertrophy comes from drugs rather than training choice.and calorie intake.

but yes, that point where you can feel that the energy for power is gone and only endurance is anymore possible, thats about the point where its time to end a workout.

something like this will do for most:

light high volume warmup

heavy basic lifts some 5-10 sets

followed by high volume sets,10 to 15.

The drugs facilitate the growth, you still need to stimulate it.
As a lifetime natural (which sounds pretentious I know), I can only comment on what I know training naturally.

For a natural it is NOT, 80 percent diet and rest/20 percent training and all these random ratios you hear of.
IT IS; 50 percent diet and rest/50 percent training. You cannot have one without the other and aid hypertrophy. I want to make sure I do just enough training to stimulate, but no so much that I am unable to recuperate.