Author Topic: going to the smith machine  (Read 1293 times)

NoCalBbEr

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going to the smith machine
« on: June 03, 2007, 01:12:49 PM »
Hey all
I'm thinking about using the smith machine for my pressing movement i.e. bench press,military press and squats. I dont use a training pertner and guys at my gym dont know how to spot correctly. I was think about going to the smith machine because, i can never lift as much as I can on the free  style of the pressing movements because of the safety issues. I feel that I need to get my weights up on the pressing movement to get more size. I've heard that the smith machine doesnt use the secondary mucles b/c theres no need to balacne the bar. is this the right way to go? or just stick with the weight for size??  I  feel that I just need to lift heavy. for some reason I've only bench at 265lb for my heavist set. I've done 315x10 before but I'm always thing about not dropping the bar on myself.

EL Mariachi

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Re: going to the smith machine
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2007, 04:24:45 PM »
the smith is great, i want to buy one for my home. its a great tool. i think free weight is a little bit better for muscle growth, but if you keep getting stronger at the smith machine you will make good gains, thats for sure.

Cap

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Re: going to the smith machine
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2007, 05:08:51 PM »
I've started incorporating  "rack" training recently and I think it is going to help.  I have been doing things from a dead stop at the bottom and I think it will start helping strength go up plus you can always let it stay on the bar and building that bottom, middle and lockout strength will get you stronger. 
Squishy face retard

pumpster

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Re: going to the smith machine
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2007, 05:30:06 PM »
Whatever helps you improve re: weight, reps and intensity, use. What matters is relative improvement using any effective form of resistance. It's not important IMO whether you can use more on a machine or not.

Mike

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Re: going to the smith machine
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2007, 09:40:28 PM »
Hey all
I'm thinking about using the smith machine for my pressing movement i.e. bench press,military press and squats. I dont use a training pertner and guys at my gym dont know how to spot correctly. I was think about going to the smith machine because, i can never lift as much as I can on the free  style of the pressing movements because of the safety issues. I feel that I need to get my weights up on the pressing movement to get more size. I've heard that the smith machine doesnt use the secondary mucles b/c theres no need to balacne the bar. is this the right way to go? or just stick with the weight for size??  I  feel that I just need to lift heavy. for some reason I've only bench at 265lb for my heavist set. I've done 315x10 before but I'm always thing about not dropping the bar on myself.

I've already posted this but here it goes anyway:

One of the reasons that the Smith machine has so much publicity in the magazines is because it makes a great visual picture but, as far as functional transfer, it scores a big zero. It was probably invented by a physical therapist who wanted more business for himself.

What you might perceive as positives with the device are in fact strong negatives. The perceived positives are only short-lived because, in a Smith machine, the weight is stabilized for you. However, the shoulder really operates in three planes. But if you do exercises in a Smith machine, none of the shoulder stabilizers need to be recruited maximally. For example, the rotator cuff muscles don't have to fire as much because the bar's pathway is fixed. That creates a problem when the trainee returns to free-weight training. When that happens, the trainee is exposed to the three-dimensional environment called real life. Since the Smith machine has allowed him to develop strength only in one dimension, it predisposes him or her to injury in the undeveloped planes of movement.

Exercise prescription specialist Paul Chek of San Diego has identified what he calls pattern overload syndrome. In his seminar and videos, he stresses that the Smith machine bench press is one of the most common sources of shoulder injuries:

"People get a pattern overload from using the Smith machine. The more fixed the object, the more likely you are to develop a pattern overload. This is due to the fact that training in a fixed pathway repetitively loads the same muscles, tendons, ligaments and joints in the same pattern, encouraging micro-trauma that eventually leads to injury. If Johnny Lunchpail always uses a Smith machine for his bench presses, he ends up working the same fibers of the prime movers in the bench press all of the time: triceps brachii, pectoralis major, long-head of the biceps, anterior deltoids, and serratus anterior. But he can't change the pathway?the bar will always be in the same position."

Because of the mechanics of the human shoulder joint, the body will alter the natural bar pathway during a free-weight bench press to accommodate efficient movement at the shoulder. A fixed bar pathway doesn't allow alteration of this pathway for efficient movement of the joint, thereby predisposing the shoulder to harmful overload via lack of accommodation.

All in all, the Smith machine is a training piece for dorks. If you're interested in training longevity, you're far better off sticking to the standard barbell and dumbbell exercises or try the newer chest machines from Magnum and Flex.

LatsMcGee

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Re: going to the smith machine
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2007, 03:13:19 AM »
Buying a Smith Machine is like buying a minivan when you get married. 

thewickedtruth

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Re: going to the smith machine
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2007, 05:26:10 AM »
Hey all
I'm thinking about using the smith machine for my pressing movement i.e. bench press,military press and squats. I dont use a training pertner and guys at my gym dont know how to spot correctly. I was think about going to the smith machine because, i can never lift as much as I can on the free  style of the pressing movements because of the safety issues. I feel that I need to get my weights up on the pressing movement to get more size. I've heard that the smith machine doesnt use the secondary mucles b/c theres no need to balacne the bar. is this the right way to go? or just stick with the weight for size??  I  feel that I just need to lift heavy. for some reason I've only bench at 265lb for my heavist set. I've done 315x10 before but I'm always thing about not dropping the bar on myself.

Sounds like you've got plenty of viable reasons to use the smith. The smith helps take away any anxiety when it comes to lifting heavy because you know you don't have to worry about wether or not you'll kill yourself or not get that last rep. It'll let you focuse and push harder than you normally would which should take you past the point where you're currently at. As long as you throw in some dumbbell pressing from time to time or each chest day, it should help make up for some of what you lose on the smith machine stabilizer wise. And for those that think the smith machine is ineffective, does that mean that all equipment that isn't considered "free weights" like machines and HS equipment be removed from the gym? Cables and all of it. It's just another tool in the box.

Get Rowdy

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Re: going to the smith machine
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2007, 05:38:07 AM »
The smith machine is fine IMO. something to try is alternating it with free weights. LIke when you wanto move up in weight use the smith caus its safer, then use that same higher weight next workout with freeweights if you're concerned about neglecting the stabilizers.

Redwingenator

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Re: going to the smith machine
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2007, 09:42:55 AM »
I've already posted this but here it goes anyway:

One of the reasons that the Smith machine has so much publicity in the magazines is because it makes a great visual picture but, as far as functional transfer, it scores a big zero. It was probably invented by a physical therapist who wanted more business for himself.

What you might perceive as positives with the device are in fact strong negatives. The perceived positives are only short-lived because, in a Smith machine, the weight is stabilized for you. However, the shoulder really operates in three planes. But if you do exercises in a Smith machine, none of the shoulder stabilizers need to be recruited maximally. For example, the rotator cuff muscles don't have to fire as much because the bar's pathway is fixed. That creates a problem when the trainee returns to free-weight training. When that happens, the trainee is exposed to the three-dimensional environment called real life. Since the Smith machine has allowed him to develop strength only in one dimension, it predisposes him or her to injury in the undeveloped planes of movement.

Exercise prescription specialist Paul Chek of San Diego has identified what he calls pattern overload syndrome. In his seminar and videos, he stresses that the Smith machine bench press is one of the most common sources of shoulder injuries:

"People get a pattern overload from using the Smith machine. The more fixed the object, the more likely you are to develop a pattern overload. This is due to the fact that training in a fixed pathway repetitively loads the same muscles, tendons, ligaments and joints in the same pattern, encouraging micro-trauma that eventually leads to injury. If Johnny Lunchpail always uses a Smith machine for his bench presses, he ends up working the same fibers of the prime movers in the bench press all of the time: triceps brachii, pectoralis major, long-head of the biceps, anterior deltoids, and serratus anterior. But he can't change the pathway?the bar will always be in the same position."

Because of the mechanics of the human shoulder joint, the body will alter the natural bar pathway during a free-weight bench press to accommodate efficient movement at the shoulder. A fixed bar pathway doesn't allow alteration of this pathway for efficient movement of the joint, thereby predisposing the shoulder to harmful overload via lack of accommodation.

All in all, the Smith machine is a training piece for dorks. If you're interested in training longevity, you're far better off sticking to the standard barbell and dumbbell exercises or try the newer chest machines from Magnum and Flex.


I agree with the micro trauma theory as it pertains to the Smith Machine and most machines that don't use cables.  If you are bodybuilding and just want size machines including the Smith Machine offer safety and the ability to recruit more motor units by using more weight safely.  If you are an athlete free weights are better because you train the stabilization muscles and enhance proprioceptive neurofacilitation.