Author Topic: Help my lats grow  (Read 2270 times)

BodyMachine

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Help my lats grow
« on: October 18, 2007, 07:12:42 PM »
Most under developed (to my eye anyway) are my lats and possibly delts. I don't really feel $hit doing lat pull downs.

Pull ups 4-5reps 4 sets
lat pull downs 6-8reps 3 sets
bent over barbell row 8-10reps 3 sets
seated cable rows 6-10reps 3-4sets

I need something better, something that will pack meat on my lats and back.

Delts could use a boost too.
smith machine military press
standing barbell military press front then behind neck, then upright row  ALL A SUPERSET
Front dumbbell raises (static hold at the top of the motion)
dumbell shrugs

Suggestions. Most concerned about back lats though.

The_Crusher

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2007, 07:35:56 PM »
Chins.....full on! Pull toward the front on a chin bar...not a lat machine. You'll feel the pump and the pain will come one to two days after! Enjoy!

wes mantooth

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2007, 08:17:16 PM »
get rid of the smith military and either do seated dumbbell or standard seated barbell

sit to do your shoulder press work. standing will limit your pressing weight due to instability of your core

i didnt see lateral raises....

i didnt see any rear delt work...

try other shrug work as well. go to barbell...front and rear. try shrugs on the standing calf raise machine (its a variation of the hise shrug), or do shrugs on the t-bar row (scapula shrug)





BodyMachine

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2007, 09:15:17 PM »
Chins.....full on! Pull toward the front on a chin bar...not a lat machine. You'll feel the pump and the pain will come one to two days after! Enjoy!

When you say chins, are your palms facing you or away? Also, do you use a straight bar or one with handles that are angled/point toward floor?


get rid of the smith military and either do seated dumbbell or standard seated barbell

sit to do your shoulder press work. standing will limit your pressing weight due to instability of your core

i didnt see lateral raises....

i didnt see any rear delt work...

try other shrug work as well. go to barbell...front and rear. try shrugs on the standing calf raise machine (its a variation of the hise shrug), or do shrugs on the t-bar row (scapula shrug)

For rear delt, you like bent over dumbell fly? What do you recommend?

Will ditch smith, will add lateral raises, but on the raises do bend the elbows at all?

Arnold jr

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2007, 09:23:12 PM »
Try doing a few less sets and higher weight...try staying in the 5-8 range on all working sets. Once you're warmed up, and you complete your first exercise, go into the next lift full blown...no need to warm up again...plus this will save energy and let you go full blast on the sets that matter anyway.

Further, try for a while just limiting yourself to one type of pulldown movement per back workout...you're more then likely doing more then needed to grow, IMO.

Perfect form, hard and heavy, short and sweet workouts are the best for packing on size IMO.

wes mantooth

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2007, 10:06:36 PM »



For rear delt, you like bent over dumbell fly? What do you recommend?

Will ditch smith, will add lateral raises, but on the raises do bend the elbows at all?


well, heres what i am doing for rear delts right now:

dumbbell fly with my head on the back of an incline bench...bending at the waist

pec fly/ rear delt machine

single arm cable fly....position yourself similar to an "arnold curl"...one arm at a time

i do 2 sets per exercise


as far as the lateral raises, the elbow can be bent slightly, but the mechanics ofthe movement are the important factor. keeping your elbows aligned with your hand is key. many bend their arm because of too much weight and the movement is lost. looks like theyre doin' the funky chicken instead of working delts. a good way to concentrate on the movement is to make sure that your pinky is the first part of your hand to reach the parallel point at the shoulder. if your arm is turned, elbow sagging...again, wrong movement. high elbows, pinky first

try a few sets of 1) seated barbell, then a few sets of 2a)dumbbell arnold presses...or 2a)standard seated dumbbell presses, 3)move to the laterals, then 4)fronts. 5)rear delts last, then 6)shrug your ass off. go home shower and eat!

trab

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2007, 02:52:56 AM »
Heavy DB rows. Lean on the DB rack NOT bent over at a 90 degree angle.
Stand more upright, you can handle more iron.
Ever seen Dorian do DB or BB rows? Copy that form.

Get the poundage up. doubles, tripples and a single here and there.
Aim for the 90s and 100s or what ever is over your max now.

Let the form get a little sloppy, heave the bastards, but dont get slack on the movment or you'll get a
muscle pull.

After your max is 10-20lbs > you'll rep 6-8 reps with at least 10lbs more. Then you grow.  ;)
For me, 1-8 reps for DB row is the only thing that does it. ANything higher reps is just stretching & warm up /   prehab work.

3-4 working sets of 5-8 reps. Add some tripples and doubles, nothing else I even count as part of the workout, its just warmup..

Also,, PLer form in the bench press helps builds a wider/ thicker lat base.

delta9mda

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2007, 09:42:30 AM »
if there is a pullover machine at your gym, use it. then straight to some rowing. do as trab said and be a little more upright.
 
for cable rows, i dont do the arnold style of stretching all the way down to the toes. i actually do my cable row like a t-bar. the upper body doesnt more much but my shoulder blades sure as hell do. let the blades move forward and feel the lats and other muscles stretch some, then pull hard and squeeze em in the back. when the lats are pumped you should feel your triceps and lats pushing on each other.

watch blood and guts and do it yates style.

warrant800

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2007, 10:02:05 AM »
Wide grip pull ups 4 sets to failure
t- bar rows arnold style 4 sets pyramid up
close grip cable pull downs 4 sets pyramid up
bent over dumbell rows heavy as you can without jerking it up 4 sets

If this doesn't add some strength and meat to your lats give up lifting....And ofcourse switching your routine up with different exercises to keep shocking the muscles.....

trab

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2007, 12:03:48 PM »
Ok, tons of good ideas - DONT DO THEM ALL AT ONCE!  ;)
Dont overtrain again...
How are you gaining BTW?

SWOLETRAIN

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2007, 12:53:03 PM »
Free chins (wide)
1 arm db rows
Do these consistantly and no lats will be big lats sooner than later
-

The_Crusher

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2007, 01:41:37 PM »
When you say chins, are your palms facing you or away? Also, do you use a straight bar or one with handles that are angled/point toward floor?  Use whichever bar that feels good to your wrists. Straps will help in this area to hold your bodyweight as you concentrate on the pull-up. Palms facing away from you will work strictly the lats, reversing your grip will focus more on your bi's and low back.



RDW

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2007, 01:50:19 PM »
A typical lat day for me consists of:

Pullups 12 x 3
Palms out, chinups are palms in and work more biceps. No additional weight, use as a warmup.

Cable rows 12-15 x 3
with a gunner's grip, use your body, lower back for the first part of the motion and that last bit is where the lats really kick in.  Your biceps should never get sore, if they are tone down the weight and concentrate on flexing the lats as you are pulling

Bentover barbell rows 10-12 x 3
I use a wide grip here and have my palms facing down, use palms up if you are doing biceps the same day as back, which I don't suggest.  Again if your arms are getting sore before your back, lower the weight and focus on flexing the lats, there is no reason to extend your arms fully, in fact it will likely cause you problems with your tendons on the inner elbow.  Try to keep the arms around a 130°-150° starting position, pull back hard and tight, flexing the lats on each rep.

T-Bar Rows 12-15 x 3
I personally don't use T-Bar because it can be done more effectively with an olympic bar and a gunner's grip underneath and I load the weight up on one end with the other end secured underneath something.  You have probably seen people do it before but if not it's kind of hard to explain.  Do these like the bentover rows but with more weight and more force, Your legs and lowerback play a big role in this lift as well, an excellent compound workout.

Dumbell rows 12-15 x 3
These will finish you off well.  Allow the weight to be fully extended so you stretch your lats on each rep.  Bring the weight up with a slight outer row, meaning not straight up and down, but like you are throwing a hook in reverse.  Again, flex the lats as you bring up the weight.

I hope this helps, it has worked well for me, there are certainly other exercises you can throw in as well but these are my core lifts.

BodyMachine

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2007, 06:36:33 PM »
Ok, tons of good ideas - DONT DO THEM ALL AT ONCE!  ;)
Dont overtrain again...
How are you gaining BTW?

I won't  ;D

Gaining ok. Sure there is some flub on my gut, abs are still somewhat visable, ass has a little more cushion, but that is part of the game I guess. I got to tell you, it is hard NOT to over train. I want to stay there forever until I can't move the damn body part. With certain muscles, like lats, isolating and beating the $hit out of them ain't as easy as chest and benching. Takes much more proper form too. Damn I wish I could train with you beasts! My drive is certainly there.

Thanks to all for the great advice.


RDW,

What is a "gunner's"  grip?


2ND COMING

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2007, 10:21:32 PM »
take a 3-4 foot grip on an olympic bar,throw it over your head, lock out arms,  squat with it, add weight as you progress

Meso_z

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2007, 01:53:18 PM »
Deadlifts....try them. heavy and be very careful

trab

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2007, 05:12:55 PM »
Gunners Grip?  - I think just a overhand grip. Like holding a pistol grip...

Rack Pull deads also would be a heavy duty addition....
Partial reps from  shin height, or even higher in the cage, or off 2x12 boards, or what ever.

IrishMuscle84

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2007, 12:35:05 PM »
I posted the same thread a while ago. My lats are my weak point also. When it comes too my lats, I LET GO OF MY EGO, AND I GO LIGHT, ESPECIALLY ON PULLDOWNS. When your first building a muscle, YOU DONT start at heavyass weight, nope, your not gonna gain shit. When i do pulldowns the heaviest ill go is maybe 120, yup....ill say it again 120lbs. Why?? IAM 110% GUARANTEED THAT I AM GONNA MAKE GAINS AND BUILD MUSCLE. I use to do about 220lb pulldowns, doing about 5 sets of 8-12 reps. NOTHING, i got strong but no size. Many people tell to do "heavy pulldowns, heavy dumbell rows, Nope not for me. Iam a Bodybuilder not an "EGO LIFTER" whos only worried about showing everybody how strong they are.

Meso_z

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2007, 11:09:10 AM »
Gunners Grip?  - I think just a overhand grip. Like holding a pistol grip...

Rack Pull deads also would be a heavy duty addition....
Partial reps from  shin height, or even higher in the cage, or off 2x12 boards, or what ever.

I did rack pull deads today and i can assume you that my "rear" lats got fire....nice and strict with a sqeeze (lean a bit back and expand you chest to front) at the top of the movement...great  :)

Arnold jr

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2007, 02:25:06 PM »
I did rack pull deads today and i can assume you that my "rear" lats got fire....nice and strict with a sqeeze (lean a bit back and expand you chest to front) at the top of the movement...great  :)
Love these...what little bit of back action I've got definitely comes from these to a pretty good extent IMO.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2007, 02:59:50 PM »
I posted the same thread a while ago. My lats are my weak point also. When it comes too my lats, I LET GO OF MY EGO, AND I GO LIGHT, ESPECIALLY ON PULLDOWNS. When your first building a muscle, YOU DONT start at heavyass weight, nope, your not gonna gain shit. When i do pulldowns the heaviest ill go is maybe 120, yup....ill say it again 120lbs. Why?? IAM 110% GUARANTEED THAT I AM GONNA MAKE GAINS AND BUILD MUSCLE. I use to do about 220lb pulldowns, doing about 5 sets of 8-12 reps. NOTHING, i got strong but no size. Many people tell to do "heavy pulldowns, heavy dumbell rows, Nope not for me. Iam a Bodybuilder not an "EGO LIFTER" whos only worried about showing everybody how strong they are.

Agree to most of this.  I have seen people in the gym "doing" big weight on various back excersises, hell all kinds of excersises, that have absolutly no muscle development!  They use all momentum and every other muscle but the intended one.  Guys are just fooling themselves.  Its a trip, i just shake my head and improve and they stay the same, year after year, the same lifts the same bodys.

Now dont get me wrong I like to use relativley heavy weights for me.  Most of the sets I do now a days are in the 10-12 rep range. I will train in the 5-8 range but spareinly. 

trab

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2007, 04:01:49 PM »


DB Row 225 x 25.
Dude is monster strong. Check the vice grips....

The Squadfather

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2007, 04:17:20 PM »


DB Row 225 x 25.
Dude is monster strong. Check the vice grips....
Matt Kroczaleski, that dude is a beast.

krazee

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2007, 07:06:52 PM »
Love these...what little bit of back action I've got definitely comes from these to a pretty good extent IMO.

I concur and much less stress on the lower back. Also you get more thickness to boot!
Just spot me BITCH!!!

Arnold jr

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Re: Help my lats grow
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2007, 09:07:56 PM »
I concur and much less stress on the lower back. Also you get more thickness to boot!
Big time agreed! Plus, you cut down on the risk of widening your mid-section...deads from the floor often cause mid-section problems in the long run.