Bush economic policies at work............

[Slapper]

[...]It's easy for you & I, who are outside of the USA to fume with rage[...]

I actually live in the states now.

[...]however, something we have to keep in the forefront of our minds is that information about the USA and what she does around the world is largely filtered out for Americans at home. Heck, they're barely even getting news from right within the country itself. If they don't know what's going on, how can they be expected to do something about it.

Yeah, but come on! People are attacking us know and all they can think about is "they hate us for our freedoms" or "Islam is not a religion of peace". Huh? Fucking huh?! I mean, are we stupid enough to not be able to connect the dots? Are we stupid enough to think there isn't a war going on because the major media outlets refuse to give it any airtime aside from the usual "Iraquis love the freedom we brought onto them" while burying us in the most lame, most-retarded TV programming in many, many years? I mean, Who's the biggest loser. Fucking what?! Are they for real?!   

Every day though, more & more Americans are taking the time to inform themselves. Just look at this very board. I can remember it was just a short time ago when people were freaking out that I or anyone else dared to post a political topic or even dared to suggest that America was not the rosy, peachy, bastion of democracy and human rights she puts herself forth to be. Disclosures of hard truths were met with accusations of "Anti-Americanism". Heck, I can recall suggesting a book be read and the post was deleted... for recommending a book written by a former member of the State Dept. We've come a long way! And I think Americans have come a long way from just a few years ago. The fog is lifting, ...slowly but surely. Don't be so hard on your countrymen. They're playing with a handicap that you and I are not burdened with. Had we had the same blinders placed on us, who is to say it wouldn't have taken us longer to start figuring things out. Considering the burden they've had to bear, ...I think they're progressing pretty well, ...although there are still some that really make you want to give them a good shake at times.

I do agree with what you're saying. Although, in many ways, I think we've lost that healthy distrust of the federal government all these brilliant people like some of the Founding Fathers were warning us about. We've become a nation of obedient, flag-sucking, overweight semi-zombies who will accept anything that comes from the "leaders"... when it should be the other way around.

[drkaje]

It's not all about people buying too much home. In many cases, it was people refinancing their homes, homes that they had for years, and the mortgages comes up for renewal, ...and since the re-fi, interest rates rose to beyond what they could afford.  When the market appraises a home at X, and lenders issue a mortgage based on a certain amount of equity in the property, ...if the value gets re-assessed at Y, the bank is coming for that home. When someone owes more for the house than what it can be sold for, ...I think the creator(s) of the economic policies that fostered such market instability cannot ber considered blameless.

Someone is always getting screwed, that's not the point. What I'm driving at is.. how intrusive should the govt. be in individual decisions? Free decision making, much the same as free speech, doesn't always result in the right decision. That being said, Americans don't generally want a govt as intrusive and or tax policies like socialist countries. We already have too many taxes and wasteful spending, making an inefficient govt bigger won't solve any of these problems.

[Slapper]

[...]That being said, Americans don't generally want a govt as intrusive and or tax policies like socialist countries.[...]

But that's the thing, we are taxed like in a socialist country without enjoying the services of an even REMOTELY socialist (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH COMMUNIST!) country. Everything you take part of, aside from defecating and peeing, is taxed. The house you buy is taxed. The furniture you buy is taxed. The food you buy is taxed. The clothes you buy are taxed. The train you take to work is taxed. The coffe you drink to be able to stay awake through your lame-ass job is taxed. Your wages are taxed (BIG TIME). Et fucking cetera.

Need I go on?

[drkaje]

But that's the thing, we are taxed like in a socialist country without enjoying the services of an even REMOTELY socialist (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH COMMUNIST!) country. Everything you take part of, aside from defecating and peeing, is taxed. The house you buy is taxed. The furniture you buy is taxed. The food you buy is taxed. The clothes you buy are taxed. The train you take to work is taxed. The coffe you drink to be able to stay awake through your lame-ass job is taxed. Your wages are taxed (BIG TIME). Et fucking cetera.

Need I go on?

More taxes won't translate into increased service. A more efficient use of the money would be better than turning the US into Canada.

[Slapper]

More taxes won't translate into increased service. A more efficient use of the money would be better than turning the US into Canada.

I agree they wouldn't, but that doesn't take away from the fact that taxes are supposed to finance the services the state, local and federal governments provide. For example, the taxes you pay to the state government tend, and in most cases do, to go toward creating, fixing and maintaining infraestructure as well as primary education. The local governments are supposed to clean up and police the streets, etc. The federal government... I have no friggin idea what they actually do with our money (aside from using it to killing other people). And they are, BY FAR, the ones who collect the most.

 

[War-Horse]

More taxes won't translate into increased service. A more efficient use of the money would be better than turning the US into Canada.

Slappers post went right over your head.   Hes not saying increase taxes......hes saying that you already pay enouhg taxes that should be getting you free services in socialist countries.  There is an accounting of the provisions that you recieve there.    Here we pay taxes on our taxes and have little to show for it but corporate bailouts and turning the Federal Treasury into a damn MORTGAGE company!!!

[Decker]

Sure the practices are predatory but is Bush really responsible for someone being too stupid to realize they can't afford something? Maybe the gov should make credit cards illegal too and stop people from spending money they don't have.

Sort of.  Predatory loan practices are illegal.  Here's how Bush enabled the practice:  He used federal law to pre-empt state oversight duties permitting the "wild west" approach to lending practices.

"...the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. The OCC also promulgated new rules that prevented states from enforcing any of their own consumer protection laws against national banks. The federal government's actions were so egregious and so unprecedented that all 50 state attorneys general, and all 50 state banking superintendents, actively fought the new rules."

"But the unanimous opposition of the 50 states did not deter, or even slow, the Bush administration in its goal of protecting the banks. In fact, when my office opened an investigation of possible discrimination in mortgage lending by a number of banks, the OCC filed a federal lawsuit to stop the investigation."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783_pf.html

[War-Horse]

Sort of.  Predatory loan practices are illegal.  Here's how Bush enabled the practice:  He used federal law to pre-empt state oversight duties permitting the "wild west" approach to lending practices.

"...the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. The OCC also promulgated new rules that prevented states from enforcing any of their own consumer protection laws against national banks. The federal government's actions were so egregious and so unprecedented that all 50 state attorneys general, and all 50 state banking superintendents, actively fought the new rules."

"But the unanimous opposition of the 50 states did not deter, or even slow, the Bush administration in its goal of protecting the banks. In fact, when my office opened an investigation of possible discrimination in mortgage lending by a number of banks, the OCC filed a federal lawsuit to stop the investigation."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783_pf.html



And people say that republicans want small government???   Heres another of his HUGE govt growth policies affect america and lead us to fascism....One concludes....REPUBLICANS support huge Govt!!!

[Decker]

There hasn't been a true conservative in office for decades and decades.

[OzmO]

ozmo, your point is well taken, but without strict lending regulations in place, people who clearly couldn't purchase a home were not only given a chance to own a home, many left the closing with EXTRA cash in their pockets as well. who would turn down a home plus extra spending cash with ZERO risk ? if their payments escalated and were unable to make them...... they'd just walk away. leaving the financial institutions and the US tax payers to clean up the mess.

the banking crisis of the late 1920's and 1930s which led in The Great Depression, resulted from unregulated, unsupervised financial markets (similar to now) which can all too easily suffer catastrophic failure.

as the decades passed, that lesson was forgotten — and now we’re relearning it, the hard way.

bush & co. embraced the failed policies of the Depression era, only to repeat them.

NT

I think i see your point.  It's the governments responsibility to, in some regard, protect people from themselves.   Just as regulations were put in place to prevent the  stock market collapse in the 1929, similar regulations must be maintained to prevent what just happened here int he housing and lending markets?