Author Topic: shoulders  (Read 1683 times)

Kegdrainer

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shoulders
« on: April 23, 2008, 07:52:15 PM »
I do shoulders on a day by themselves so I can really focus on them.  Im sore as fuck after changing my routine to max ot.  This week i did:

barbell shoulder press (in front, not behind the neck)
lateral raise (machine)
rear delt fly (machine)
dumbell front raise
upright rows

everything was warmup + 2 working sets, 5-6 reps to failure.
Anything else you guys would recommend for overall shoulder mass?

webcake

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 02:22:40 AM »
I prefer to do raises with DB, but each to their own. I seldom, if ever, do front raises. I think a press is all you need, as chest work also hits the front delts. Other than that it seems a solid workout...
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GoneAway

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 04:06:44 AM »
A press is basically the same as a front raise - arms go through the same ROM, it's just you end up using a larger ROM with presses and involving the upper traps (cause you're lifting the arms above shoulder level.)

Heaps of variations you can do for shoulders, but your routine looks good, apart from the front delts being worked more than medial and posterior (might create an imbalance of sorts.)

webcake

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 05:03:41 AM »
A press is basically the same as a front raise - arms go through the same ROM, it's just you end up using a larger ROM with presses and involving the upper traps (cause you're lifting the arms above shoulder level.)

Heaps of variations you can do for shoulders, but your routine looks good, apart from the front delts being worked more than medial and posterior (might create an imbalance of sorts.)

Well yes, but id never choose a front raise over a press, and wouldn't recommend a person looking for mass to choose them. And pretty much everyone trains front delts twice a week (they come into play big time when doing chest) so i feel that only one exercise specifically for front delts is sufficient.

 And as you stated, in this particular routine, front delts are getting worked more so than medial and posterior, so i was basically suggesting to drop them.

Another exercise i like doing is upright rows with a wider grip. I can feel it a lot more in the medial head, yet i always read mixed reports on this exercise (some say wider is more traps and vice versa)...
No doubt about it...

GoneAway

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 05:43:14 AM »
Well yes, but id never choose a front raise over a press, and wouldn't recommend a person looking for mass to choose them. And pretty much everyone trains front delts twice a week (they come into play big time when doing chest) so i feel that only one exercise specifically for front delts is sufficient.

 And as you stated, in this particular routine, front delts are getting worked more so than medial and posterior, so i was basically suggesting to drop them.

Another exercise i like doing is upright rows with a wider grip. I can feel it a lot more in the medial head, yet i always read mixed reports on this exercise (some say wider is more traps and vice versa)...

Posterior delts also get worked during upper back exercises, so it'd be better to even everything out, like 1-2 exercises for each heads, unless you're lacking in a particular head. But with that said, in pressing exercises, you work triceps alot, so an upright row should be included if you want to even things out more, as they work the biceps.

It's all about upper arm positioning in upright row. Wider grip does work medial head more, cause your upper arms are more lateral to your body. Inclose or wide, both work the same amount of traps.

jpm101

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 07:51:15 AM »
Top shoulder girdle builder's, in my view, are push or jerk presses off a rack. Get to handle huge weight with huge results after awhile. The one arm side DB press, not to be confused with regular DB press, is another great dellt exercise. Also try DB upright rows, one arm at a time, rather that the rgular BB version. Some find less stress on the joints themselves with a DB. PBN and bent arm laterial raises are two other mass builders.

Sorry to disagree, but the press is not basically the same as the front raise. The press is a pushing compound movement. The front raise (as laterial raises) is an extension movement (weight lifted out and away from the body). In either case the position of the elbows makes the difference. If you want top potental mass, and rather fast, than select the compound press. If you can not build anterio/laterial delts from pressing exercises (BP, inclines, military press, etc) than something is wrong with your basic body structure. Or you are overworking those muscles and not allowing enought time for recovery.

Really no need to do front raises, unless you get overwhelmed with joy by the short lived pump you may get. A pump does not always mean growth. Good Luck.

 
F

mass 04

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 11:25:12 AM »
I agree, ditch the front raises.

Kegdrainer

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2008, 03:23:49 PM »
good info. thanks guys.  I will dump the front raises and try wider grip on the upright rows.

mass 04

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2008, 03:42:45 PM »
Well yes, but id never choose a front raise over a press, and wouldn't recommend a person looking for mass to choose them. And pretty much everyone trains front delts twice a week (they come into play big time when doing chest) so i feel that only one exercise specifically for front delts is sufficient.

 And as you stated, in this particular routine, front delts are getting worked more so than medial and posterior, so i was basically suggesting to drop them.

Another exercise i like doing is upright rows with a wider grip. I can feel it a lot more in the medial head, yet i always read mixed reports on this exercise (some say wider is more traps and vice versa)...
when i do wide grip rows, i lean foward slightly at the waist. I feel it a lot more in the rear delts as well as the side head.

Bluto

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2008, 02:54:41 AM »
personally i rather not go as low as 5-6 reps on shoulders
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webcake

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Re: shoulders
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2008, 03:04:15 AM »
personally i rather not go as low as 5-6 reps on shoulders

I agree with that on exercises like lat raises. But military press i think its ok to go that low. Just gotta make sure that your shoulders get warmed properly before a workout.
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