Economy Bailout Bill = Has failed

[Tombo]

STFU you nazi anti semite.

sigh... don't take a moral stand for some stupid way of life.. judaism, christianity .. all that shit.. pointless in our history - just gets in the way of life.

[Soul Crusher]

Nobody does.  That will be done solely at Hank Paulson's discretion.  THAT is the scary thing.  No oversight, no controls.  He can send $500 billion to European banks tomorrow and we cnanot do a thing to stop it.

I am a republican, but do not agree with this bailout.  

1.  Why the figure 700 billion?
2.  Why do we need to buy toxic deadbeat mortgages to free up credit?
3.  How much is the government paying for these things and are they even real?
4.  Why give so much power to one person who might be there for only 4 months?  WTF is up with that?
5.  The government screwed this mess up and cant be trusted to fix it.
6.  The housing bubble needs to burst so homes can become more affordable again.  The housing bubble was created by cheap and easy financing.
7.  Where is my bailout?
8.  Who is going to run the auctions and sales of these properties?
9.  How do we even know these properties are still in decent shape?
10.  How many of these loans were to illegal aliens?


The government is your enemy.  It is even a worse enemy when they are in bed with Wall Street.


No Bailout.
 

[CalvinH]

Is this gonna effect the orange crop.I have an inside tip

[Soul Crusher]

Because if no credit is available, businesses can't get loans.  If businesses can't get loans, they can't operate, at least not in the long term.  Then they start laying off employees en masse.  These employees can't get new jobs, because no new businesses are starting and existing businesses aren't expanding because no credit is available.  These unemployed workers stop spending, which causes reduced sales at businesses which leads to further layoffs, and the cycle keeps feeding on itself.  End result?  1929 (or worse).  If you say the current situation isn't our problem, then I hope you like bread lines and soup kitchens.  Credit is the very basis of a capitalistic economy.

I could see if the govt wanted to provide money for new loans based upon sound lending principles to make new credit available.  Bailing out these greedy slobs on wall street for toxic mortgages makes no sense to me on any level and is only throwing good money after bad.

The govt can provide liquidity for new loans.  Why not start there?

[Soul Crusher]

Because if no credit is available, businesses can't get loans.  If businesses can't get loans, they can't operate, at least not in the long term.  Then they start laying off employees en masse.  These employees can't get new jobs, because no new businesses are starting and existing businesses aren't expanding because no credit is available.  These unemployed workers stop spending, which causes reduced sales at businesses which leads to further layoffs, and the cycle keeps feeding on itself.  End result?  1929 (or worse).  If you say the current situation isn't our problem, then I hope you like bread lines and soup kitchens.  Credit is the very basis of a capitalistic economy.

Something needs to be done.  I agree, but the plan as proposed is just nonsensical to me on every level.

There are many other ways to free up money than paying off the banks for greedy decisions they made. 

If new loans need to be made, the govt can help back those loans, but buying subprime loans who are backed by declining assets seems bizarre.

[Alex23]

Because if no credit is available, businesses can't get loans.  If businesses can't get loans, they can't operate, at least not in the long term.  Then they start laying off employees en masse.  These employees can't get new jobs, because no new businesses are starting and existing businesses aren't expanding because no credit is available.  These unemployed workers stop spending, which causes reduced sales at businesses which leads to further layoffs, and the cycle keeps feeding on itself.  End result?  1929 (or worse).  If you say the current situation isn't our problem, then I hope you like bread lines and soup kitchens.  Credit is the very basis of a capitalistic economy.

Goat laying down an economy 101 ownage.

[Soul Crusher]

Goat laying down an economy 101 ownage.

How so?  No one is saying that credit markets need help, but I don't see how buying bad debt does that. 

If the banks want and need to give out new loans, the govt can help with that and does not have to stick the tax payer with a  trillion dollar tab for declining assests that were not worth the paper they were written on even at the time they were generated.

Many of these mortgages were based on inflated appraisals and are almost worthless now.  Is that what you want to sign up for?

The doom and gloom is just silly.  There are better ways out of this jam than sticking the taxpayer with the bad decisions of greedy bankers and govt incompetents.

[Relentless]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown

Never before has a President so exposed himself as not caring whatsoever about what the American people think.  This bill was torpedoed because the American people got on the phone and computer and bombarded their House Representative with calls and emails.  The overwhelming majority of Americans DO NOT WANT THIS BILL PASSED. 

But King George just doesn't care about what we have to say.  Our will is completely irrelevant.

[Camel Jockey]

It isn't just about buying bad mortgages, but also a matter of confidence. Banks would be a lot more confident and willing to lend out money if they had someone to unload their bad balance sheet items on, and in this case they would unload on the government.

I'm glad congress shot down Paulson's proposal. They need to modify it to their terms, and to the terms of the American tax payer.

[Camel Jockey]

One of the huge problems is this bailout plan was pushed onto congress by a man who was a Wall Street executive, and a president with a 20% approval rating. Then you had McCain creating drama by trying to play the hero. You also had people like Nancy Pelosi taking the public for granted, and the house Republicans growing a pair and reverting back to their conservative roots. 

I hope their is some sort of solution, even be it on the tax payer's tab. Credit is not only slow in the US, but also in Europe and Asia. People are worried there too.

[Cromespyder]

what i dont understand is:

if a bill gets voted down
they just reword it a little
keep pushing it
and re-vote on it
repeat, till it gets passed.

what's the point of even having a vote then, if they are just going to keep pushing the bill till it gets passed?  we may as well just become a dictatorship

[Cromespyder]

One of the huge problems is this bailout plan was pushed onto congress by a man who was a Wall Street executive, and a president with a 20% approval rating. Then you had McCain creating drama by trying to play the hero. You also had people like Nancy Pelosi taking the public for granted, and the house Republicans growing a pair and reverting back to their conservative roots. 

I hope their is some sort of solution, even be it on the tax payer's tab. Credit is not only slow in the US, but also in Europe and Asia. People are worried there too.

i have a feeling there was an ulterior motive to voting no, rather than 'growing a pair'. this bailout has a provision that gives paulson even more power, he's like a financial dictator.

[240 is Back]

what i dont understand is:

if a bill gets voted down
they just reword it a little
keep pushing it
and re-vote on it
repeat, till it gets passed.

what's the point of even having a vote then, if they are just going to keep pushing the bill till it gets passed?  we may as well just become a dictatorship

Well, if there is no big economy crash, maybe congress will realize they did the right thing in not giving Bush a blank check for $700 billion with zero restrictions.

I'm all for helping stimulate the economy, but they just pulled that number out of their ass and demanded zero oversight.  They didn't tell us how they'd use it.

[kyomu]

The DOW dropped 700 points instantly (then recovered some - only down 500 points at the moment.)

Turn on CNN or MSNBC.  If you own stock, you are having a bad day.  Republicans are refusing to give corporate welfare to big companies.  Bush wants $700 billion and refuses to tell us how he'll spend it.

If the bill fails, dollar will suffer for a short time, but may be stronger in the long run.

Haha. Its time to organize the war as usual for aiding this economic situation

[Camel Jockey]

i have a feeling there was an ulterior motive to voting no, rather than 'growing a pair'. this bailout has a provision that gives paulson even more power, he's like a financial dictator.

That's true.. Plus a huge number of them are facing tough elections, so naturally they would listen to the public.

[Soul Crusher]

i have a feeling there was an ulterior motive to voting no, rather than 'growing a pair'. this bailout has a provision that gives paulson even more power, he's like a financial dictator.

Do your part.  I did mine and called my congresswoman and two senators and told them NO BAILOUT!

This plan is atrocious.  BTW - Pelosi is going to probably put the acorn provision back in there.

[Tapeworm]

Is this gonna effect the orange crop.I have an inside tip

Bet you a dollar it won't.

[shootfighter1]

Here's great government for us....its a jewish holiday and everyone is off, in the middle of a major crisis.  In a private business, this would be unacceptible.  Pathetic.  The economy is tanking and they all take a holiday.

[Veteran_Lifter]

Because if no credit is available, businesses can't get loans.  If businesses can't get loans, they can't operate, at least not in the long term.  Then they start laying off employees en masse.  These employees can't get new jobs, because no new businesses are starting and existing businesses aren't expanding because no credit is available.  These unemployed workers stop spending, which causes reduced sales at businesses which leads to further layoffs, and the cycle keeps feeding on itself.  End result?  1929 (or worse).  If you say the current situation isn't our problem, then I hope you like bread lines and soup kitchens.  Credit is the very basis of a capitalistic economy.

You're really smart (a lot moreso than that fucking idiot TRUE ADONIS), but you are somewhat wrong about credit being the basis of capitalism.  The fact is, it wouldn't be necessary if not for the stranglehold that the Federal Reserve and the Jewish bankers have on the economy.  So, in the bastardized sense of the word capitalism, you are correct, but in terms of true capitalism as detailed by Adam Smith, no, credit is not a basis.

[shootfighter1]

This should show us that we cannot give more power to the federal gov whether repubs or democrats are in charge.  They fight & argue their partisan bullshit.  Pelosi is among the worst, she needs to step down.

We can thank some real conservative republicans and some democrats for rejecting this recent version of the bill.  It needs to be re-worked and other options need to be on the table. Bush is not a conservative.  get rid of the neocons and the big spending liberals (the kind that support ACORN too) and give the gov back to hard working moderates of both parties, caring conservatives and people who follow the principles of the constitution  Bloomberg hit it right on Meet the press...the right is getting farther right and the left farther left.

[Hugo Chavez]

Vote on the revised bailout:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238695.0