How long have you stayed on gear...

[Ontheway]

Wow bro you have it all wrong. First off you don't really cycle HCG in the sense that you do it for a week or so and then get off. If your going to run HCG While your "ON", and not for PCT then you need to get on it and stay on it other wise your probably just doing more harm than good. Shutting down your HTPA and restarting it with HCG over and over is not a good. Either remain shut down, or remain on HCG creating your own natty test. Desensitization does not come from duration of HCG use, but is rather dose dependent. You really need to be more educated before running these powerful drugs.

250mg of test ew is more of a replacement dose than a cycle, which is probably what you need. If I was you I would get some blood work done, and see where your levels are at and maybe continue the TRT for life. At 34 yoa, you are right there as far as possible low test goes. THere is nothing wrong with being on TRT, but it is a life long commitment for true TRT. You described a lot of the symptoms of low testosterone in your post. Do your self a favor and look into it, it may be a good thing for you. I also suspect you could save your self a little bit of $$ and drop your dose down to 150-200mg ew and get just as good results. This post is not flaming bro, just educating.

One thing I want to stress is shutting down and restarting your HTPA too many times is not a good thing and we will not get away with it to many times before something breaks. Either remain shut down, or remain full functioning. You can use HCG while on TRT and remain full functioning. Just be wise when using these drugs, because they can be harsh.

What do you do about "ball shrinkage" I have read some people do HCG midd cycle to evit the shrinkage...

[jtsunami]

What do you do about "ball shrinkage" I have read some people do HCG midd cycle to evit the shrinkage...

nothing, they don't shrink super small like you are thinking, and does it really matter to you if they shrink if you are cycling or just on gear, who cares, it's not your dick.

jt

[Luv2Hurt]

nothing, they don't shrink super small like you are thinking, and does it really matter to you if they shrink if you are cycling or just on gear, who cares, it's not your dick.

jt

agree

[Ontheway]

nothing, they don't shrink super small like you are thinking, and does it really matter to you if they shrink if you are cycling or just on gear, who cares, it's not your dick.

jt

I hope my girl still finds them while going down on me... Thanks for the tip!!!

[Arnold jr]

I hope my girl still finds them while going down on me... Thanks for the tip!!!

If they shrink down that small then something else is going on non gear related. Don't buy into the hysteria you hear about shrinkage...yes it happens to a degree but more than anything it's brought up by others as nothing more than a scare tactic.

[tstmaniac]

They don't shrink up too small...if anything it makes your dick bigger from much harder erections...especially on some test

[Bobby]

If they shrink down that small then something else is going on non gear related. Don't buy into the hysteria you hear about shrinkage...yes it happens to a degree but more than anything it's brought up by others as nothing more than a scare tactic.

very effective tough, just hearing the words make me cringe

[Arnold jr]

very effective tough, just hearing the words make me cringe

You know what's really funny to me, all the "warnings" against steroids that you hear, heart failure, liver and kidney failure, psychological impairment, etc...guys hear that and they usually shrug it off. Then they hear "Your balls will shrink" and they run for their lives. Somethings wrong with the world, lol!

[Bobby]

You know what's really funny to me, all the "warnings" against steroids that you hear, heart failure, liver and kidney failure, psychological impairment, etc...guys hear that and they usually shrug it off. Then they hear "Your balls will shrink" and they run for their lives. Somethings wrong with the world, lol!

 

I think that has to do with the fact that the more serious sides you mentioned are what can happen in worst case scenario, but very very rare. However ball shrinkage, acne, gyno etc are more common and is to be expected. am i right? i'm right, right?

[Arnold jr]

I think that has to do with the fact that the more serious sides you mentioned are what can happen in worst case scenario, but very very rare. However ball shrinkage, acne, gyno etc are more common and is to be expected. am i right? i'm right, right?

Ball shrinkage, to an extent yes, but it's not anything even remotely major. Doubt your girlfriend/wife would even notice.

Acne, it's hit or miss, some guys yes, some no, but for those that fall in yes I think more than not it's just a few bumps here and there on their back or shoulders...huge breakouts are not that common. Not saying it doesn't happen, it does, but on the whole those guys fall into the minority.

Gyno, if you use and use for years and years of cycling, at some point the odds are strong that you'll experience something in this category. Not saying you'll get full blown gyno but you may experience some swelling, itchiness or things like that. All of those things can be combated with AI's in most cases. It's when you ignore the problem, don't take precautions that things usually end up bad. Yes there are some guys who are going to get it no matter what they do, they fall into a very, very small minority. Now I've heard some people say, people who have good knowledge on this topic, that if you're a hardcore user for years that it's inevitable. I don't know if it's true or not, but there are a lot of these guys who go ahead and have their glands removed just to be safe.

[Bobby]

Ball shrinkage, to an extent yes, but it's not anything even remotely major. Doubt your girlfriend/wife would even notice.

Acne, it's hit or miss, some guys yes, some no, but for those that fall in yes I think more than not it's just a few bumps here and there on their back or shoulders...huge breakouts are not that common. Not saying it doesn't happen, it does, but on the whole those guys fall into the minority.

Gyno, if you use and use for years and years of cycling, at some point the odds are strong that you'll experience something in this category. Not saying you'll get full blown gyno but you may experience some swelling, itchiness or things like that. All of those things can be combated with AI's in most cases. It's when you ignore the problem, don't take precautions that things usually end up bad. Yes there are some guys who are going to get it no matter what they do, they fall into a very, very small minority. Now I've heard some people say, people who have good knowledge on this topic, that if you're a hardcore user for years that it's inevitable. I don't know if it's true or not, but there are a lot of these guys who go ahead and have their glands removed just to be safe.

Don't they or can't they use AI or AE year round if they're on all the time? if regular joe gets it i can understand, but when it happens to pros... you'd think they know what they're doing and try to avoid it.

[jtsunami]

Don't they or can't they use AI or AE year round if they're on all the time? if regular joe gets it i can understand, but when it happens to pros... you'd think they know what they're doing and try to avoid it.

it is much more common sense wise to just get it cut out by good plastic surgeon and not waste all that money on AI's and anti e's if you are ON all the time.  The surgery cost a couple thousand, but if you are on for a few years it would pay off in drugs you wouldn't be buying.

jt

[Arnold jr]

Don't they or can't they use AI or AE year round if they're on all the time? if regular joe gets it i can understand, but when it happens to pros... you'd think they know what they're doing and try to avoid it.

When you're on nearly all the time and running massive amounts, sometimes AI's won't be enough to help. What JT said above makes the most sense, especially in this case.

[Bobby]

So is that what most pros do? to save on drugs and just walk around with a ton of estrogen in them... when they use AE it's only to keep bloat/water down for contest?

but if you remove the gland won't the nipples "collapse" inwards, some have that look, it's terrible.

[jtsunami]

So is that what most pros do? to save on drugs and just walk around with a ton of estrogen in them... when they use AE it's only to keep bloat/water down for contest?

but if you remove the gland won't the nipples "collapse" inwards, some have that look, it's terrible.

No you gotta get a good plastic surgeon, Dr Blau in white plains NY is great.  There was a guy I think Dr Corbin or something that use to do it out in Cali or that area, but he isn't around anymore. 

A few that have had it done, chris cormier, kevin levrone, ronnie coleman, evan cetropini, pj braun, on and on dave palumbo, derek anthony, there are a lot on that list you would never know they had it done if you look at them even closely.  I wouldn't get it done if you don't have a problem, but if you start to get gyno and you plan to stay on ALL the TIME, then I would get it done instead of endlessly trying to combat it with AI and AE's.

jt

[Bobby]

No you gotta get a good plastic surgeon, Dr Blau in white plains NY is great.  There was a guy I think Dr Corbin or something that use to do it out in Cali or that area, but he isn't around anymore. 

A few that have had it done, chris cormier, kevin levrone, ronnie coleman, evan cetropini, pj braun, on and on dave palumbo, derek anthony, there are a lot on that list you would never know they had it done if you look at them even closely.  I wouldn't get it done if you don't have a problem, but if you start to get gyno and you plan to stay on ALL the TIME, then I would get it done instead of endlessly trying to combat it with AI and AE's.

jt

Wow interesting stuff! you seem to be in the know. Never knew so many did it as a precaution. I though AE's were necessary for other sides too.

[jtsunami]

Wow interesting stuff! you seem to be in the know. Never knew so many did it as a precaution. I though AE's were necessary for other sides too.

well most I listed people who have had it, I dunno if they got it as a precaution, I doubt they did.  AE's yeah help for bloat, but that doesn't really matter unless you want to look good on the beach or you are going to do a competition. 

jt

[Emmortal]

2.5 years was my longest stint.  I've been off for about 6 months right now.

[Stavios]

2.5 years was my longest stint.  I've been off for about 6 months right now.

damn

how are you feeling

[strength]

I can't believe no one has mentioned any effects on the thyroid after being on trt to above normal trt doseages.  TSH/ t3/t4 WILL be affected to some degree after long term use, especially when talking about supraphysiological (sp?) levels of test. 

I encourage you lifers to get get some thyroid panels done. 

[4thAD]

What do you do about "ball shrinkage" I have read some people do HCG midd cycle to evit the shrinkage...

All shrinkage suggests is that you are no longer producing natural testosterone (you are shut down; testicular atrophy). Now with that said you do not need to experience testicular atrophy to be shut down. HCG is important weather or not you have shrinkage as it ensures testicular health during the cycle. It has been said that running HCG while on cycle may even prevent prostate problems as your body is functioning correctly. Studies have shown that most men with prostate problems have low testosterone levels, which means they are kind of in a natural state of shut down.