Author Topic: global warming and skeptics  (Read 5019 times)

gcb

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2010, 05:28:14 AM »
Mann received another incriminating e-mail from Dr. Kevin Trenberth, a New Zealander now with the University of Colorado and Head of the Climate Analysis Section at the National Center for Atmospheric Research. "The fact is we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't." An incredulous Trenberth simply blamed "our [inadequate] observing system." Yet he and his colleagues are now dodging the "Climategate" bullet, indignant that global warming skeptics are supposedly taking their comments out of context. One wonders if they might be referring to a message from Jones who wrote about a statistical "trick" he used to "hide" data. Or perhaps they mean Mann's reference to climate change skeptics as "idiots."

see the video i posted

gcb

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2010, 05:32:14 AM »
If you can be bothered reading:

--------------------

As many of you will be aware, a large number of emails from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia webmail server were hacked recently (Despite some confusion generated by Anthony Watts, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Hadley Centre which is a completely separate institution). As people are also no doubt aware the breaking into of computers and releasing private information is illegal, and regardless of how they were obtained, posting private correspondence without permission is unethical. We therefore aren’t going to post any of the emails here. We were made aware of the existence of this archive last Tuesday morning when the hackers attempted to upload it to RealClimate, and we notified CRU of their possible security breach later that day.

Nonetheless, these emails (a presumably careful selection of (possibly edited?) correspondence dating back to 1996 and as recently as Nov 12) are being widely circulated, and therefore require some comment. Some of them involve people here (and the archive includes the first RealClimate email we ever sent out to colleagues) and include discussions we’ve had with the CRU folk on topics related to the surface temperature record and some paleo-related issues, mainly to ensure that posting were accurate.

Since emails are normally intended to be private, people writing them are, shall we say, somewhat freer in expressing themselves than they would in a public statement. For instance, we are sure it comes as no shock to know that many scientists do not hold Steve McIntyre in high regard. Nor that a large group of them thought that the Soon and Baliunas (2003), Douglass et al (2008) or McClean et al (2009) papers were not very good (to say the least) and should not have been published. These sentiments have been made abundantly clear in the literature (though possibly less bluntly).

More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.

Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’ discussions; Scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; Scientists resenting the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of this should be shocking.

It’s obvious that the noise-generating components of the blogosphere will generate a lot of noise about this. but it’s important to remember that science doesn’t work because people are polite at all times. Gravity isn’t a useful theory because Newton was a nice person. QED isn’t powerful because Feynman was respectful of other people around him. Science works because different groups go about trying to find the best approximations of the truth, and are generally very competitive about that. That the same scientists can still all agree on the wording of an IPCC chapter for instance is thus even more remarkable.

No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.

The timing of this particular episode is probably not coincidental. But if cherry-picked out-of-context phrases from stolen personal emails is the only response to the weight of the scientific evidence for the human influence on climate change, then there probably isn’t much to it.

There are of course lessons to be learned. Clearly no-one would have gone to this trouble if the academic object of study was the mating habits of European butterflies. That community’s internal discussions are probably safe from the public eye. But it is important to remember that emails do seem to exist forever, and that there is always a chance that they will be inadvertently released. Most people do not act as if this is true, but they probably should.

It is tempting to point fingers and declare that people should not have been so open with their thoughts, but who amongst us would really be happy to have all of their email made public?

Let he who is without PIN cast the the first stone.

Update: The official UEA statement is as follows:

    “We are aware that information from a server used for research information
    in one area of the university has been made available on public websites,”
    the spokesman stated.

    “Because of the volume of this information we cannot currently confirm
    that all of this material is genuine.”

    “This information has been obtained and published without our permission
    and we took immediate action to remove the server in question from
    operation.”

    “We are undertaking a thorough internal investigation and we have involved
    the police in this enquiry.”

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack/

gcb

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2010, 05:37:40 AM »
when some politically motivated fucktard comes in to try and micro-manage your work to nit pick at the wording of your emails i can understand how these scientists would like to tell them where to go

PRIVATE RYAN

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2010, 05:42:58 AM »
It's a hoax to get people
to buy cars that works
with batteries.

I'm going with Clarkson 3.16,
and buying a V8.

arce1988

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2010, 10:05:01 AM »
  It is real.

cauthon

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2010, 03:10:53 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_count

Six-Core Xeon 7400    1,900,000,000    2008    Intel    45 nm

1) The transistor is 45 nm, not the chip.

2) They dont use a die to place transistors on a chip. They 'grow' them on a chip.

Your lack of micro chip fabrication knowledge  is sickening!
 ;D

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean its a lie...

benchmstr

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2010, 03:12:22 PM »
bench

sync pulse

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2010, 08:49:24 PM »
Because with limits on the use of fossil fuels, people in industrial nations will be very much poorer.  I know that here someone will bring up windturbines, solar, tides.  The sad fact is that these devices cannot deliver energy in the amounts and at the low price necessary for industrial societies.  Nuclear power can, but people are needlessly in fear of the technology.

gordiano

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2010, 08:51:00 PM »
"Science is the devils way to get you to turn away from God" - one of my siblings


LOL!
HAHA, RON.....

SUPREME BEING

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2010, 08:53:12 PM »
Anyone who buys this scam has no idea of what kind of money can be made by parties instigating this bullshit. Just one example read into the carbon trading scam set-up by the wallstreet boys - sometimes i am shocked at hows stupid our leaders really are.

Recent article showing more bull: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6991177.ece

Any btw temperatures actually declined last few years which was not accounted for by any scientific model proposed by the so called experts on global warming. Not one model predicted any decline in temperatures - what the fuck does that tell you.

Temperature is based on so many factors and so many variables it is impossible to have any conclusive evidence. They cant predict the fucking weather yet there predicting 50 years into the future - pathetic anyone buys this bull.

Harry Spotter

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2010, 08:53:44 PM »
i notice that not one of the groups formed, or so called self professed experts on the non existence of global warming is related to the scientific community and they resort to pulling lame anecdotes to cite their "case".

it makes me laugh to know that the very same people that dont want to know how they put a billion transistors onto a 45 nanometre die to make a PC chip, or how a car engine management system works, or how the selection of a steel cross member for a bridge is done yet they take these things for granted then have the audacity to question the scientific community- that does its own share of peer review- and their conclusion of global warming due to human causes.

the medical community have to submit irrefutable evidence of double blind, statistically significant studies to prove drug efficacy- the very same that the global warming scientists do...to prove that it is occurring.

Yet these numb skulls get on the radio and pick cold days here and there as their proof that it isnt.

fuck humans are dumb. one day the general populous will realise that groups of smart people make this a better world and if they say that we're ruining it then we'd better pay attention.

no good saying "told you so" 50 years from now.

ok im over my rant. back to the usual DA slagging and Nasser worship.


Stick to felating cocks in a studio 54 cubicle, my friend.

http://assassinationscience.com/climategate/

Climate science has always been a 'marginal' science attracting bottom of the barrel types.


Desolate

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Re: global warming and skeptics
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2010, 08:58:30 PM »
Believing in man-made global warming is akin to believing in Santa Claus. ::)