So much for "Separation of Church & State"; Obama asks clergy to pimp ObamaCare

[Straw Man]

I really think religion needs to but out of these things.  Its wrong. 

agreed 100%

good luck trying to get any fundie to understand

[Dos Equis]

And miss out on Hilary Clinton's butchering "I Don't Feel Noways Tired"??

NOT A CHANCE!!!

 

She tried to sing that song? 

[Soul Crusher]

agreed 100%

good luck trying to get any fundie to understand

I'm sorry, but this is one area I really disturbing, regardless of who does it. 

Religions and churchs have captive audiences, often times with children in attendance, and have an heir of authority on many issues while serving as head of a congregation and should understand their role.  Their role is to give religious and moral guidance, not politics.

If they do their jobs, and the congregants feel a certain way, they don't need the pastor or bishop wading into these issues. 

Additionally, to me its just stupid since what if 50% of the people disagree with the political side the person takes?  Its like music people blasting Bush.  I'll give one example - I went to a concert with Lamb of God, and the lead singer was ranting about Bush this, and Bush that.  guess what, it really turned me off and I won't see them again.   Its like - STFU and sing and perform - if I want politics I will go to FR, HP etc. 

I assume many feel the same way about church, but maybe I am wrong. 
 

[The Showstoppa]

I'm sorry, but this is one area I really disturbing, regardless of who does it. 

Religions and churchs have captive audiences, often times with children in attendance, and have an heir of authority on many issues while serving as head of a congregation and should understand their role.  Their role is to give religious and moral guidance, not politics.

If they do their jobs, and the congregants feel a certain way, they don't need the pastor or bishop wading into these issues. 

Additionally, to me its just stupid since what if 50% of the people disagree with the political side the person takes?  Its like music people blasting Bush.  I'll give one example - I went to a concert with Lamb of God, and the lead singer was ranting about Bush this, and Bush that.  guess what, it really turned me off and I won't see them again.   Its like - STFU and sing and perform - if I want politics I will go to FR, HP etc. 

I assume many feel the same way about church, but maybe I am wrong. 
 

it's bewst for the pastor to just jump around and yell " Goddamn America!" 

[Soul Crusher]

it's bewst for the pastor to just jump around and yell " Goddamn America!" 

Ha ha ha ha ha .   

Bro - you made me almost piss my pants. 

[The Showstoppa]

Ha ha ha ha ha .   

Bro - you made me almost piss my pants. 

 

[Dos Equis]

I'm sorry, but this is one area I really disturbing, regardless of who does it. 

Religions and churchs have captive audiences, often times with children in attendance, and have an heir of authority on many issues while serving as head of a congregation and should understand their role.  Their role is to give religious and moral guidance, not politics.

If they do their jobs, and the congregants feel a certain way, they don't need the pastor or bishop wading into these issues. 

Additionally, to me its just stupid since what if 50% of the people disagree with the political side the person takes?  Its like music people blasting Bush.  I'll give one example - I went to a concert with Lamb of God, and the lead singer was ranting about Bush this, and Bush that.  guess what, it really turned me off and I won't see them again.   Its like - STFU and sing and perform - if I want politics I will go to FR, HP etc. 

I assume many feel the same way about church, but maybe I am wrong. 
 

You have a point if they are engaging in partisan politics.  But I don't have a problem with a church, preacher, or "religious" person talking about things like abortion, homosexuality, taxes, other social issues, etc.  Not a big deal.  A person doesn't have to check their views at the church steps.  "Religious" people should participate in the political process.  

Also, if it bothers a church member they can do what you did and leave the church (or find someplace else to worship).  

My pastor doesn't talk politics much, but when he does touch on political issues, it doesn't bother me.  

[BM OUT]

If I was in church and the preacher said something positive about the health care bill,I would scream "shut your fucking mouth and stick to preaching ahole".Who would sit there and listen to that crap?

[Skip8282]

If I was in church and the preacher said something positive about the health care bill,I would scream "shut your fucking mouth and stick to preaching ahole".Who would sit there and listen to that crap?

Won't get invited to Christmas dinner doing that...

[tu_holmes]

You have a point if they are engaging in partisan politics.  But I don't have a problem with a church, preacher, or "religious" person talking about things like abortion, homosexuality, taxes, other social issues, etc.  Not a big deal.  A person doesn't have to check their views at the church steps.  "Religious" people should participate in the political process.   

Also, if it bothers a church member they can do what you did and leave the church (or find someplace else to worship). 

My pastor doesn't talk politics much, but when he does touch on political issues, it doesn't bother me. 

Healthcare is a social issue is it not?

[Dos Equis]

Healthcare is a social issue is it not?

Not necessarily.  It's a business/tax issue more than anything else (at least for me).  I guess it depends on how you frame the issue.

[Soul Crusher]

Healthcare is a social issue is it not?

So is stealing and theft no?

ObamaCare = theft.   

[tu_holmes]

Not necessarily.  It's a business/tax issue more than anything else (at least for me).  I guess it depends on how you frame the issue.

When you talk about taxes, there are far greater evils that my tax dollar is spent on than Healthcare. I'd rather cut a lot of other shit and keep some kind of Healthcare plan, then to just bitch about Healthcare.

So is stealing and theft no?

ObamaCare = theft.   

3333, it's no more theft than medicare, social security, or any other social program that we have.

I'm not saying it's some great idea, but it's no better or worse than those.

[Soul Crusher]

When you talk about taxes, there are far greater evils that my tax dollar is spent on than Healthcare. I'd rather cut a lot of other shit and keep some kind of Healthcare plan, then to just bitch about Healthcare.

3333, it's no more theft than medicare, social security, or any other social program that we have.

I'm not saying it's some great idea, but it's no better or worse than those.

Right - so we take one bad idea, double down with stupid, and applaud ObamaCare?


www.usdebtclock.org

 

[tu_holmes]

Right - so we take one bad idea, double down with stupid, and applaud ObamaCare?


www.usdebtclock.org

 

I'm not applauding the healthcare bill... What I'm saying is that there if you're talking about wasted tax dollars, then it's not in Healthcare... that is not the waste.

I'm all for healthcare if you can pay for it... You want to have healthcare, great... cut every other department and pay for healthcare.

I'm saying that military, transportation, social services... everything gets cut and we get to a point where we can pay for healthcare and still not have a deficit.

[Dos Equis]

When you talk about taxes, there are far greater evils that my tax dollar is spent on than Healthcare. I'd rather cut a lot of other shit and keep some kind of Healthcare plan, then to just bitch about Healthcare.

I wasn't really comparing it to anything else, but yes there are greater evils, like the stimulus money being used for African ball washing. 

[tu_holmes]

I wasn't really comparing it to anything else, but yes there are greater evils, like the stimulus money being used for African ball washing. 

I think you have to compare it... Just like at your house... If you want to pay for cable TV, but you don't make that much money, you have to choose the more important things to pay for instead of cable.

It's just life... I think you should cut a ton more stuff than healthcare.

[Soul Crusher]

I'm not applauding the healthcare bill... What I'm saying is that there if you're talking about wasted tax dollars, then it's not in Healthcare... that is not the waste.

I'm all for healthcare if you can pay for it... You want to have healthcare, great... cut every other department and pay for healthcare.

I'm saying that military, transportation, social services... everything gets cut and we get to a point where we can pay for healthcare and still not have a deficit.

I disagree - our military comes first in my mind, always.    

[Dos Equis]

I think you have to compare it... Just like at your house... If you want to pay for cable TV, but you don't make that much money, you have to choose the more important things to pay for instead of cable.

It's just life... I think you should cut a ton more stuff than healthcare.

I agree about having to prioritize spending, cuts, and whatnot.  I don't think that applies to healthcare.  It should have never been passed in the first place.  We're broke.  We should be cutting taxes and decreasing spending.  We should be reducing the size and reach of the federal government.

Instead, we're hiring IRS agents, adding to the deficit and debt, and creating a massive bureaucracy.  

[tu_holmes]

I disagree - our military comes first in my mind, always.   

Military will always be first... We spend 1 Trillion dollars on our military every year... More than the next 10 countries combined.

If I cut military spending 25%, I'm still spending more than the next 7 countries combined and still have the most powerful military force on earth.

Do you think we should NOT cut our military?

Really?

I can cut 25% out of our military just by closing every single foreign base in the world... Then if someone wants me in their country, they can ASK me to come, but I'm not just going to hang around other countries anymore.

Why the fuck are we in Germany or Guam... Fuck that shit.

[Arnold jr]

The problem is not keeping religion out of politics, never has been, in-fact, that argument is rather stupid. As I'm sure everyone here knows, nowhere in the constitution or the words "The separation of church & state." The only thing mentioned is congress shall establish nor prohibit any religion.

Here's the thing, the problem is when government infiltrates the church in order to pass policy...not when religion is part of government, meaning, when religion is part of a politicians principles, that's fine. If a governing individual rules based on the convictions of his principles, this is proper, when a government official uses the church to influence policy, this is a problem...there is a big difference in-between the two.

And the idea that someone can govern without their principles, which are held by their religion or lack thereof, that idea that a person should or even can withhold his principles is beyond naive and simply stupid.

What Obama is doing here is outright wrong.

[Montague]

Ok, what politician or president prior to Obama opened the door for this shit?   Was it just Obama or did some other sack of crap start this?

And, which piece of crap promised us all this "change?"

One asshole repeating another asshole's mistakes does not make those mistakes right.

[Dos Equis]

The problem is not keeping religion out of politics, never has been, in-fact, that argument is rather stupid. As I'm sure everyone here knows, nowhere in the constitution or the words "The separation of church & state." The only thing mentioned is congress shall establish nor prohibit any religion.

Here's the thing, the problem is when government infiltrates the church in order to pass policy...not when religion is part of government, meaning, when religion is part of a politicians principles, that's fine. If a governing individual rules based on the convictions of his principles, this is proper, when a government official uses the church to influence policy, this is a problem...there is a big difference in-between the two.

And the idea that someone can govern without their principles, which are held by their religion or lack thereof, that idea that a person should or even can withhold his principles is beyond naive and simply stupid.

What Obama is doing here is outright wrong.

Well said. 

[Arnold jr]

Appreciate it. Things like this topic really can get on my nerves simply because so many enjoy twisting "what is" instead of recognizing simple point blank truth.