Generally speaking, potential for strength gains is greater than for mass gains

[flinstones1]

Basily I think with enough time and drugs anyone can be huge but not everyone can lift huge weights and be strong. I think strength is alot more genetic

[BIG ACH]

Btw I ask - not trying to bash you or anything honestly, just want to know!

[Deicide]

Basily I think with enough time and drugs anyone can be huge but not everyone can lift huge weights and be strong. I think strength is alot more genetic

Funny, I think the opposite (in terms of natural).

[Deicide]

Deicide...

Whats your bodybuilding/weight lifting history? 

Eating history?

traiing history?

strategy? etc etc? 

I started late, at around 27, am 33 now. Sure I look better now than when I started but it only took me about a year or two to realise that bbing wasn't anything I was gifted for. I have almost no sport/athletic gifts, just not in the genes. I have tried all kinds of eating strategies and training ones. This year was actually quite good (earlier) until I had a serious injury that took me out over two months. But they were all just strength gains. These days I just try to be healthy and don't lift with ego anymore. No point. A lot of strength left after the injury. These days, like I said, just try to be in decent shape and healthy. More important things in life for me than lifting weights.

[Boost]

WITHOUT DRUGS - High calorie diets and heavy weights are a disaster for most guys.

If you're not naturally very lean with a fast metabolism, most guys that "lift big and eat big" just end up smooth, watery and soft

These guys go from 180 to 230.......but have to cut back down to 165 to look anything like a bodybuilder.

Of course drugs change this.

[Deicide]

WITHOUT DRUGS - High calorie diets and heavy weights are a disaster for most guys.

If you're not naturally very lean with a fast metabolism, most guys that "lift big and eat big" just end up smooth, watery and soft

These guys go from 180 to 230.......but have to cut back down to 165 to look anything like a bodybuilder.

Of course drugs change this.

I agree.

[flinstones1]

Funny, I think the opposite (in terms of natural).

i agree   when training natural i think anyone can get to be pretty strong but not  really big or freaky strong. With enough drugs I think everyone can be very big strong but not everyone can lift freak weights

[affeman]

I started late, at around 27, am 33 now. Sure I look better now than when I started but it only took me about a year or two to realise that bbing wasn't anything I was gifted for. I have almost no sport/athletic gifts, just not in the genes. I have tried all kinds of eating strategies and training ones. This year was actually quite good (earlier) until I had a serious injury that took me out over two months. But they were all just strength gains. These days I just try to be healthy and don't lift with ego anymore. No point. A lot of strength left after the injury. These days, like I said, just try to be in decent shape and healthy. More important things in life for me than lifting weights.

Starting out that late it's almost impossible to lean out without the use of drugs. Your fat depots are already pretty persistent in your late 20s, hard to get rid of them when you carried them with u all your life.

[Deicide]

Starting out that late it's almost impossible to lean out without the use of drugs. Your fat depots are already pretty persistent in your late 20s, hard to get rid of them when you carried them with u all your life.

There's a lot to be said for starting being active at a very young age; it has lifetime benefits, whether lifting or not. It's really hard to reverse a life long sedentary lifestyle. I agree with you.

[andreisdaman]

WITHOUT DRUGS - High calorie diets and heavy weights are a disaster for most guys.

If you're not naturally very lean with a fast metabolism, most guys that "lift big and eat big" just end up smooth, watery and soft

These guys go from 180 to 230.......but have to cut back down to 165 to look anything like a bodybuilder.

Of course drugs change this.

Good point..they also wind up in lots of pain from sore joints

[BIG ACH]

This is Neal Grossman, a good friend of mine, he started at 55, this picture is taken of him at 60, and he beats guys in their 20's!




Never too late to start.  Deicide, I'm sorry to hear about your injury, what happened?  What were you eating?  How much did you weigh when you started?  What about at your peak?

[DK II]

havent read it.....i was going to when i clicked on the thread...but i lost interest

bench

x2

[kh300]

I'm sorry but if you put 100lbs on your dead and didnt get any larger,,then you either eat like shit or have horrible genetics.

In my experience guys that use progression, weather high reps low reps, whatever, are the ones making gains.

I go to the gym every morning and see the same people. Most guys I could tell you exactly what they will do up to the exact weights they'll use. and guess what, after years they look the same,and they will continue to look the same.

I see a group of 3 college age kids who have their notepads out, which means they're tracking their progress, and they are blowing up.

[DK II]

I'm sorry but if you put 100lbs on your dead and didnt get any larger,,then you either eat like shit or have horrible genetics.

In my experience guys that use progression, weather high reps low reps, whatever, are the ones making gains.

I go to the gym every morning and see the same people. Most guys I could tell you exactly what they will do up to the exact weights they'll use. and guess what, after years they look the same,and they will continue to look the same.

I see a group of 3 college age kids who have their notepads out, which means they're tracking their progress, and they are blowing up.

I agree with that.

Also, the biggest guy in the gym will also be the strongest.

[suckmymuscle]

in your average individual.

Agree or disagree?

I have certainly found that to be the case with me. Over the years I have gotten stronger but made very little progress mass wise despite eating tons at timea; strength went up but I didn't notice any great changes in body composition.

What has been your experience?

  Strength and mass are correlated. Sarcomers don't become stronger, so the only way for a muscle to become stronger is by increasing the amount of sarcomers. Thus strength gains can come only from an increase in the number of sarcomers or increased efficiency in mobilizing muscle fibers(muscle fibers are amalgamations of sarcomers). Since leverage is dependent upon muscular attachment location to the bones, and since this is stable, then it is not a factor affecting strength. There is some strength gains by learning to position one's physique so as to maximize leverage, but this is very minumum. The reason why some people gain more strength than mass is because they gain neuromuscular efficiency which allows them to mobilize more sarcomers whilst performing exercises, so they can increase strength to a degree higher than what would be possible for a given amount of muscle gain. And also because they learn to position their bodies so as to maximize leverage although this is very, very minimum.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

No, progressive strength gains did and do work. I increased my deadlift this year by almost 100lbs but I never got any new muscle. That is what I am talking about.

  To understand why this happens, you need to understand two things about the deadlift. First, the deadlift is an exercise that mobilies your entire physique, so the muscle gains are distributed throughout your frame and not on a specific muscle, so you can't see the gains because individual muscles grow very little in response to this exercise. That is, increasing your deadlift by 30 lbs causes less visible muscle gains than increasing your barbell curl strength by 30 lbs because in the case of the barbell curl all the muscle gains will be concentrated on biceps, whilst with the deadlift they will be distributed throughout your entire body so the increase in size of each individual bodypart will be much smaller. The second reason for this is that the deadlift requires enormous neuromuscular coordination, so you become better and better at mobilizing your musle fibers the more you do the exercise, meaning that you can increase your strength dramatically in this exercise without increasing muscle as much. You probably only gained about 10 lbs of muscle by increasing your strength on this exercise by 100 lbs due to improved neuromuscular efficiency, and it is distributed throughout all your body and not on a localized muscle so you can't see it. But I assure you positively that you have gained muscle from it. If you continue to increase your strength in this particular exercise, you will start gaining more muscle because by now your strength increases due to improved neuromuscular coordination have stabilized because you can't mobilize more sarcomers than you have, so the only way for increased strength after neuromuscular efficiency has been maximized is to increase the amount of sarcomers. Nothing adds as much mass as the deadlift.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[CalvinH]

Zzzzz....

[Omega]

Some guys just are not built to be big OR strong

If you've got thin wrists and poor forearms,

your best bet is to get as lean as possible.

Bulking up does nothing for these people

Flex Wheeler should have gave up before he even started 

[Palpatine Q]

Deicide....don't you ever get tired of constantly posting the same shit with a slightly different twist every time ?

you have lousy genetics...what do you want us to do about it?

[CalvinH]

Deicide....don't you ever get tired of constantly posting the same shit with a slightly different twist every time ?

you have lousy genetics...what do you want us to do about it?

Read thread after thread he starts.

[Fury]

Starting out that late it's almost impossible to lean out without the use of drugs. Your fat depots are already pretty persistent in your late 20s, hard to get rid of them when you carried them with u all your life.

That's nothing more than a shitty excuse for people when they can't get in shape and give up after 2 weeks of "hard" dieting.

[Deicide]

I'm sorry but if you put 100lbs on your dead and didnt get any larger,,then you either eat like shit or have horrible genetics.

In my experience guys that use progression, weather high reps low reps, whatever, are the ones making gains.

I go to the gym every morning and see the same people. Most guys I could tell you exactly what they will do up to the exact weights they'll use. and guess what, after years they look the same,and they will continue to look the same.

I see a group of 3 college age kids who have their notepads out, which means they're tracking their progress, and they are blowing up.

This.

[Deicide]

This is Neal Grossman, a good friend of mine, he started at 55, this picture is taken of him at 60, and he beats guys in their 20's!




Never too late to start.  Deicide, I'm sorry to hear about your injury, what happened?  What were you eating?  How much did you weigh when you started?  What about at your peak?

At the time of my injury I was my strongest ever. I was leg pressing a lot of weight (for me) and I lowered it too much maybe, I don't know, but my lower back went crunch. Doctor said I was super lucky there was no permanent damage. At the time I was having maybe 2 steaks with veggies and baked potatos every day, with cereal and fruit in the morning plu 2-4 protein shakes as well as a massive pig out meal every couple of days. I have never looked at my weight, more my body composition. I just know that at 20 I was 220lbs and obese and at 33 I am under 200 and have a very different build. It's better than nothing.